Guns, Drums and Steel [OOC|Open]

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

Then neither are the Mughals lol

As I said, the Mughals were like the Ottomans. Not really a Western nation, but strong enough to be considered a GP.

The main difference is the Ottomans beat the life out of the European powers for centuries. The Mughals never did.

[G-Tech Corporation]

As I said, the Mughals were like the Ottomans. Not really a Western nation, but strong enough to be considered a GP.

The main difference is the Ottomans beat the life out of the European powers for centuries. The Mughals never did.

Is true, sadly. Mughals are no of power.

[The Holy Dominion of Inesea]

There are two Frances?

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

Great Power-Middle Power-Power-etc kinda list

Secondary Powers:

Scandinavia
Hellas
Ottomans
Brazil
North Italy
Dixie

Yeah this is mainly no.

Why? Scandinavia, irrelevant. Hellas? irrelevant. Ottomans? Don't even hold the Holy Land. Brazil. Who?

NIC would be the first or second SP by Vicky 2 standards considering what they've accomplished.

Also, Iberia should beat out Hellas on the list.

My list would be:

NIC
Scandy
Brazil/Dixie/Iberia
Ottomans
Dixie/Iberia/Brazil
Iberia/Brazil/Dixie

And since the Mughals are sorta irrelevant, N. Italy could take 8th GP

[Lunas Legion]

There are two Frances?

The France has been doubled! Now bow before France A and France B, so to be co-rulers of the world!

[Liecthenbourg]

There are two Frances?

The France has been doubled! Now bow before France A and France B, so to be co-rulers of the world!

THE EVEN BIGGER BLUE BLOB.

[Caltarania]

Secondary Powers:

Scandinavia
Hellas
Ottomans
Brazil
North Italy
Dixie

Yeah this is mainly no.

Why? Scandinavia, irrelevant. Hellas? irrelevant. Ottomans? Don't even hold the Holy Land. Brazil. Who?

NIC would be the first or second SP by Vicky 2 standards considering what they've accomplished.

If you want your own irrelevant list, then make one you gibbon. This has literally no relevance to the RP, and is exactly why I hate these kinds of lists, because they just cause people like yourself to have a fucking hissy fit because their nation isn't #1. But listen; it doesn't fucking matter. All these lists are utterly irrelevant ICly.

---

I put France twice to emphasize their blobbiness.

[The Jonathanian States]

Generic Info
Nation Name: Songhay, Imperial Sultanate of Songhai
Symbols:
National anthem- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUzPSFwrg0U
Imperial Seal-

(Image)

Flag-

Has no official flag, as it unites many cultures and each culture uses it's own flag for it's military forces. But generally it is a horizontal tri-color with a black, white, black pattern and the imperial seal in the middle.

Homeland Population: 11,364,985
Imperial Population: N/A
Location/Claims: Modern day Mali and Niger
Capital City: Gao

Government Info
Government Type: Early Parliamentary Monarchy
Brief Explanation of Government: Parliament members are Elected by people considered citizens, and the Sultan/Sultaness is a dynasty given right to rule by Allah. The Sultan uses the Parliament as a source of advice, and various parliamentary governors (That are also elected) oversee the development of their home provinces.
Ideology: African Socialism, with a little bit larger dose of free-market capitalism in the economic sectors.
Leader/s: Head of State- Sultan Matu Bāru
Head of Government- A large group of elected governors who still occasionally turn power over to the monarch.
Population Info
Brief Description of your people: I don't know what you really want here... We are kind of a mix mash of cultures that all (For the most part) have representation in the Parliament?
Religion: 80% Sunni, 20% Various African Pagan religions
Ethnicity:I'll assume you want the main one. Which would be the Songhai group, with the Mande group coming in a close second
Main/Accepted Culture(s): It would be harder to list all of these, so just assume that unless it is specifically states that they are not accepted, that they are accepted and/or neutral
Other Cultures: Moors/Tuareg, not accepted due to sore relations from the dawn of the second empire (Will explain in history and point of divergence)
White cultures/Colonial powers, Obvious why there is sore relations there, the Songhay dislike even doing business with them. However spread out they are, there still exists a few rogue colonial settlements which are Tolerated by the Songhay.

Military Info
Army:
1. Line infantry

(Image)

The main infantry corps of the Songhai army is the Line infantry. They were brought about after the defeat of the Moroccan invasion force in 1591. The commander Imer Bāru became Sultan after overthrowing Askia Ishaq II, and he saw the immediate need to modernize the empires armies after fighting with the moors. The line infantry are well equipped with older Moorish firearms and homemade Songhai firearms. Along with that there are still many soldiers who choose to carry swords and knifes into the fray along with their firearms, making them an extremely capable melee force against the bayonet armed forces of most modern armies. They are well drilled in the Fire by Rank tactic, and are trained with swords also. They are organized into 15 devisions of 5,000 men. They are the largest part of the military, numbering at around 75,000 in total.

2. Spear troop
Spear troops are well armored defense infantry meant for the sole purpose of staving off enemy cavalry charges. Most often deployed to the rear and flanks of a line infantry formation, they are Songhai's best answer to cavalry. Rather then being equipped with large pikes, they are equipped instead with 2 meter long steel spears, and a wood shield reinforced with steel. They are most often found wearing some form of homemade armor, commonly leather jerkins or leather and iron coats. They are drilled in counter cavalry tactics however, they can't stand up to sustained enemy fire and will most likely rout if fired upon for too long. Their division is 50,000 men strong.

3. Imperial cavalry

(Image)

Heavy shock cavalry. They are equipped with long steel lances and swords for backup. They wear a leather and steel coat. These are the cavalry that Songhai charges into enemy formations in an attempt to break their formation, or rout enemy lines. These cavalry can stand up to a lot of beating, however they are not armed with ranged weapons and will break if fired on continually. They number almost 15,000.

4. The artillery corps
Guns in total:
40x large caliber bombards that fire easy to make stone balls, not very accurate, but they are cheap to make, and are good at mass bombardment.
25x 6lb horse artillery (Moorish cannons)
1,000 crew members, all well trained with cannons and artillery. They know in a general sense what they are doing, however, they are no were near as well drilled as most modern armies artillery corps.
Navy: N/A no coastline

Other Info
Brief Description of your Economy: most of the nations economic strength comes from three things.
Gold, ivory and exotic pelts. These three things have sustained the coffers of Songhai for as long as anyone can remember. And while they are not the richest nation, they are definitely pretty well off from tradeing with the white colonies on the coast.
Goals: To expand the empire throughout west Africa, and stay free of colonial invasion.
History: -Point of deviation 1591
Rather then being ruined by the moors, the empire of Songhai beat them back and made their empire stronger then ever under the Bāru dynasty. The Bāru dynasty came to power through military coup, after the last of the Askia kings wished to capitulate to the moors. After that the Bāru dynasty quickly turned Songhai into a modernized military power, with lots of help from reverse engineering firearms and cannons that the moors had left behind. After the war with the Moors and subsequent collapse of their invasion, Songhai grew into a prosperous nation. A lot of focus was put on expanding road networks to other African nations, and attempting to produce their own firearms. In 1620 there was a huge failure of crops that left a large portion of the Songhai empire starving.

With far to little time to build up a decent farming industry the Songhai had to look to invasion to satisfy their needs. And Thus began the war with northern Nigeria. In 1622 The Bāru dynasty, masters of modern warfare and western tactics were able to beat back the initial counter attacks by overwhelming firepower. However, as the Songhai generals pushed farther into Nigeria the supply convoys kept getting ambushed, they could no longer get the supplies they needed to fight the Nigerians. With morale low, men starving, they were forced to pull back into northern Nigeria and fortify their position. Since then the Songhai have retained an uneasy peace with the Nigerians, and have been forcing the Nigerians to pay them tribute. The next 40 years in Songhai history is relatively uneventful, other then a few pacts with African nations that have risen and fallen. In 1665 the Songhai empire connected all of its major towns with decent roads. And In 1674 the Songhai made a unsuccessful attack on the Moorish kingdom. However Songhai history gets more interesting in 1746. As a huge political power struggle erupts into a almost full scale war.

A majority of the Songhai people liked the current Sultan Baratush III however, there was growing ideas that a council should be put in place. A council that could limit the Sultans power, and make sure that the people had a voice. One of the Sultans own advisors had plotted to force him to accept the council idea. However Sultan Baratush III caught wind of the plot through his youngest son, who was exposed to the plot because the plotters vowed to give him Sultanship over his brother. Sultan Baratush III had a lot of the plotters brought before him in public and forced to explain themselves. When they were finished explaing themselves the king asked the famous question "Nini haja ya mimi kutoa kwa ajili ya upendo wako?" (What need I give for your love?) To which the plotters replied "Taji yako" (Your crown.)

The Sultan had the plotters killed and tensions rose significantly, as more and more people began to seek change in the Songhai government. A full scale riot occurred in Gao, and the Sultan didn't try to stop it. Rather he implemented a way for the people to elect officials to serve in his court. And although this didn't really grant the people much more autonomy it still managed to quell the revolts . Sultan Baratush III was then given the title "The peaceful Sultan" and the peace continued all the way up until today.

RP Sample: I have participated in almost All of the Confederacy of allied states RP's, and I have participated in Pax Per Bellum, which was insanely similar to this. (I was using my puppet nation Annanite in that however)
Pax Per Bellum- https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=329775
429 - Do not remove. This is for tracking purposes.

4th times a charm, this time at the request of the Op.

I'm currently reading this, I'll be posting my feedback in a few. Just FYI.

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

Yeah this is mainly no.

Why? Scandinavia, irrelevant. Hellas? irrelevant. Ottomans? Don't even hold the Holy Land. Brazil. Who?

NIC would be the first or second SP by Vicky 2 standards considering what they've accomplished.

If you want your own irrelevant list, then make one you gibbon. This has literally no relevance to the RP, and is exactly why I hate these kinds of lists, because they just cause people like yourself to have a fucking hissy fit because their nation isn't #1. But listen; it doesn't fucking matter. All these lists are utterly irrelevant ICly.

The main issue here is I have the OP telling me and everyone else I'm low on the list because I have an army of volunteers when I have a 65k professional standing army lol.

I also edited my list in.

[Caltarania]

If you want your own irrelevant list, then make one you gibbon. This has literally no relevance to the RP, and is exactly why I hate these kinds of lists, because they just cause people like yourself to have a fucking hissy fit because their nation isn't #1. But listen; it doesn't fucking matter. All these lists are utterly irrelevant ICly.

The main issue here is I have the OP telling me and everyone else I'm low on the list because I have an army of volunteers when I have a 65k professional standing army lol.

I also edited my list in.

I'm not telling you anything, I made a snap decision to give Inesea something to bloody well do.

[The Holy Dominion of Inesea]

The main issue here is I have the OP telling me and everyone else I'm low on the list because I have an army of volunteers when I have a 65k professional standing army lol.

I also edited my list in.

I'm not telling you anything, I made a snap decision to give Inesea something to bloody well do.

Thanks for the list btw. Sorry it made conflict.

[The Holy Dominion of Inesea]

Graphy. Weird Sized text cause on phone making this.

[Mesrane]

Graphy. Weird Sized text cause on phone making this.

*gasps*

Persia can into Middle Power, pls.

Also this OOC moves to damnably fast (mostly a good thing). Anything concerning Persia that I have missed?

[Lunas Legion]

Graphy. Weird Sized text cause on phone making this.

*gasps*

Persia can into Middle Power, pls.

Also this OOC moves to damnably fast (mostly a good thing). Anything concerning Persia that I have missed?

All of Europe decided you were first on the 'Let's go ROFLstomp Asia' and invaded.

But seriously, nothing.

[Mesrane]

*gasps*

Persia can into Middle Power, pls.

Also this OOC moves to damnably fast (mostly a good thing). Anything concerning Persia that I have missed?

All of Europe decided you were first on the 'Let's go ROFLstomp Asia' and invaded.

But seriously, nothing.

That would be . . bad.

But cool.

[Fascist Republic Of Bermuda]

Graphy. Weird Sized text cause on phone making this.

USCA cannot into relevance.

[Krugmar]

How do you guys keeping doubling your nations?

[The Holy Dominion of Inesea]

How do you guys keeping doubling your nations?

*cries*

[Liecthenbourg]

How do you guys keeping doubling your nations?

Ottoman^2, man.
Like France^2

Double the Kebab, double the Wine, double the fun.

[Lunas Legion]

How do you guys keeping doubling your nations?

Will fix problem.

[Caltarania]

How do you guys keeping doubling your nations?

Will fix problem.

xDDDDD

[Liecthenbourg]

How do you guys keeping doubling your nations?

Will fix problem.

Its amazing.

[The Union of Courland]

Graphy. Weird Sized text cause on phone making this.

I'm not even on the thing.
*cries manly tears*

[Kisinger]

Generic Info
Nation Name: El Gran Imperio de Venezuela
Symbols:
Flag
Coat of Arms
National Anthem
Emperor Bolívar
Homeland Population: 3,747,100
Imperial Population:0
Location/Claims: Colombia, and Venezuela
Capital City: Bogota

Government Info
Government Type: Absolute Monarchy
Brief Explanation of Government: The Monarchy of Venezuela is the decision making body of the nation, though it has allowed the formation of a elected body of representatives, to represent the people of Venezuela and assist the Monarchy in making decisions for the people of Venezuela. Though the Monarchy does select a President which acts as the defacto Head of Government.
Ideology: National Conservatism
Leader/s:
Head of State: Emperor Domingo Bolivar
Head of Government: Emperor Domingo Bolivar
(defacto)Head of Government: José Gregorio Monagas

Population Info
Brief Description of your people:
Religion:Roman Catholicism is the dominant religion in Gran Venezuela, Protestantism and Native Practices are found in secluded bunches with Protestantism being the lesser of the two and found sparsely in port cities.
Ethnicity: Ethnically Gran Venezuela consists of various sub sets of Spanish speaking people.
Main/Accepted Culture(s):Colombian, Spanish, Portuguese and Venezuelan.
Other Cultures: Native, and African-Americans

Military Info
Army

Guard Detachment Stationed at Bogota
1st Imperial Guard Regiment
2nd Imperial Guard Regiment
3rd Imperial Guard Regiment
4th Imperial Guard Regiment
1st Imperial Guard Artillery Battalion
4,500 Men 15 Guns
Detachment at Fort Bolivar
5th Imperial Guard Regiment
6th Imperial Guard Regiment
7th Imperial Guard Regiment
8th Imperial Guard Regiment
9th Imperial Guard Regiment
10th Imperial Guard Regiment
6,500 Men 25 Guns

Imperial Army
Army of Colombia
46,780 Men 36 Guns
Army of Venezuela
32,510 Men 23 Guns
Army of Panama
41,450 Men 39 Guns

Navy

Imperial Marines
3,000 Men

Imperial Navy
5 Frigates
1 MoW
15 Sloops

Other Info
Brief Description of your Economy:Mediocre, Dependent on Agriculture with a small Industrial Sector.
Goals: Unite Gran Venezuela, Survive
History:
RP Sample: Does I have too? ;-;
429 - Do not remove. This is for tracking purposes.

[The Jonathanian States]

-snip-

I'll start with your history, because that is the root of all things.

-Point of deviation 1591

This means everything stays the same until then. Which by extension means that:

Rather then being ruined by the moors, the empire of Songhai beat them back and made their empire stronger then ever under the Bāru dynasty.

That cannot happen. And that:

The Bāru dynasty came to power through military coup, after the last of the Askia kings wished to capitulate to the moors.

Doesn't have to happen. Or rather, doesn't make sense happening.

After that the Bāru dynasty quickly turned Songhai into a modernized military power, with lots of help from reverse engineering firearms and cannons that the moors had left behind.

The moors can't have left firearms and cannons behind because they can't have lost with a PoD of 1591. At least not with ASB-level of incompetence.
Also, AFAIK reverse engineering from zero firearms to firearms of the end of the 16th century isn't that easy (On this specific thing I might be wrong, though).

After the war with the Moors and subsequent collapse of their invasion, Songhai grew into a prosperous nation.

Songhai used to be prosperous once, thanks to the trade that collapsed even before due to the Moorish invasion thanks to civil wars. And the lack of trade is probably related to the invasion.

A lot of focus was put on expanding road networks to other African nations,

I doubt the reasonableness of this.

and attempting to produce their own firearms.

This is sort of based on the reverse-engineering, I guess. Assuming the former is possible, which as I said I'm really unsure of, this might be possible too. Note, too.

In 1620 there was a huge failure of crops that left a large portion of the Songhai empire starving.

This is interesting considering it seems that rather than attempting to build roads the Songhai rulers proximate to the end of the Songhai actually worked sort of to reduce the risk of this.
So assuming you do build those roads this might work quite well.

With far to little time to build up a decent farming industry the Songhai had to look to invasion to satisfy their needs. And Thus began the war with northern Nigeria.

Eh.... Invasions require food too. So sure, you could have invaded, but I'm not convinced that it would've been the step preventing the most deaths of starvation.

In 1622 The Bāru dynasty, masters of modern warfare and western tactics were able to beat back the initial counter attacks by overwhelming firepower.

Now, let's give you the benefit of doubt and say you indeed have the better firepower. Somehow.
Why would the Barus have mastered modern warfare and tactics, what with having solely short contact with the not-quite-western Moors and no other westerners, as far as you are mentioning.

However, as the Songhai generals pushed farther into Nigeria the supply convoys kept getting ambushed, they could no longer get the supplies they needed to fight the Nigerians.

See above with regards to the supplies being food required. Which becomes even more amusing if the food just gets lost in the middle of Nigeria.

With morale low, men starving, they were forced to pull back into northern Nigeria and fortify their position.

Fair enough.

Since then the Songhai have retained an uneasy peace with the Nigerians, and have been forcing the Nigerians to pay them tribute.

The latter part of this doesn't seem to make too much sense. If the Songhai didn't manage to hold what is now Nigeria how would they be able to enforce payment of tribute? Why would the Nigerians pay if they can cut Songhai lines of supply and so beat back invasions?

The next 40 years in Songhai history is relatively uneventful, other then a few pacts with African nations that have risen and fallen.

Mhm.

In 1665 the Songhai empire connected all of its major towns with decent roads.

See above, on the roads.

And In 1674 the Songhai made a unsuccessful attack on the Moorish kingdom.

Mhm.

However Songhai history gets more interesting in 1746.

Let's see it, then.

As a huge political power struggle erupts into a almost full scale war.

mhm.

A majority of the Songhai people liked the current Sultan Baratush III however, there was growing ideas that a council should be put in place.

Why would that idea grow?
In bloody europe this didn't even start becoming an idea until the 1790s. And then it was shut down and only re-appeared in 1848. And was crushed again, for the record.

A council that could limit the Sultans power, and make sure that the people had a voice. One of the Sultans own advisors had plotted to force him to accept the council idea. However Sultan Baratush III caught wind of the plot through his youngest son, who was exposed to the plot because the plotters vowed to give him Sultanship over his brother. Sultan Baratush III had a lot of the plotters brought before him in public and forced to explain themselves. When they were finished explaing themselves the king asked the famous question "Nini haja ya mimi kutoa kwa ajili ya upendo wako?" (What need I give for your love?) To which the plotters replied "Taji yako" (Your crown.)

The Sultan had the plotters killed and tensions rose significantly, as more and more people began to seek change in the Songhai government. A full scale riot occurred in Gao, and the Sultan didn't try to stop it. Rather he implemented a way for the people to elect officials to serve in his court. And although this didn't really grant the people much more autonomy it still managed to quell the revolts . Sultan Baratush III was then given the title "The peaceful Sultan" and the peace continued all the way up until today.

Yeah, no, I really can't see this happening.

A few other issues I had:

• Your form of government, as indicated above.
• Your borders being exactly modern mali and niger
• The more modernized part of your army, as I also mentioned above in the relevant part of your history.

Graphy. Weird Sized text cause on phone making this.

I'm not even on the thing.
*cries manly tears*

Hush now.