PW: Behind the Scenes: Building Task Force Atlas

by **The United Remnants of America** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:14 pm

Project Warfighter
NationStates' Best Tier One Operators RP Group

Yes, as you can see, this is going to be the discussion, creation, and building of everything related to Task Force Atlas for the RP group, Project Warfighter.

This can be anything from loadouts, asset coordination, command structures, ORBATS, TOEs etc.

I know this is a bad OP, but that's because we seriously need this thread. If this was a good OP that outlined everything, we wouldn't need the thread.

Anyways, members of PW, discuss, contribute, debate, what-have-you. Let's just work some of this stuff out:

- Bases
- Assets
- Information and Intel management
- Team organization
- Command structure
- Independence as a unit

by **MERIZoC** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:14 pm

General is not the place for this.

by **The United Remnants of America** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:16 pm

Merizoc wrote:General is not the place for this.

I thought general was about discussion and debate?

Where else would it go? II? F&NI?

I guess Arts and Fiction would work... Kind of.

by **MERIZoC** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:18 pm

The United Remnants of America wrote:
Merizoc wrote:General is not the place for this.

I thought general was about discussion and debate?

Where else would it go? II? F&NI?

General is for real world debates. An RP thing should probably go in P2TM, since that's the RP forum. I sent a move request.

by **The United Remnants of America** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:19 pm

Merizoc wrote:
The United Remnants of America wrote:I thought general was about discussion and debate?

Where else would it go? II? F&NI?

General is for real world debates. An RP thing should probably go in P2TM, since that's the RP forum. I sent a move request.

Oh, thanks.

I never make OPs frequently enough to really work out the details on where one goes, and it seems I've been wrong on every OP I've made to date, so whatever. As long as it ends up where it's supposed to be, right?

by **Congreveopia** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:52 pm

URA via TG wrote:
Congrevopia via TG wrote:Re: Command structure of Task Force Atlas

I would be strongly in favor of standardising intel gathering and analysis for our teams. I know that Congreveopia and Exantos both stream data from our soldiers live to our AIs, and I think either you or DEN (or both) had a member of the team who stayed off the mission and just provided the others with intel.

As such, we have several squads which steam intel off the battlefield live, which is a useful but largely untapped asset. I think that any team that streams data should have the option to pass it (or a version of it degraded for security reasons) to a central Atlas authority which adds data from the battlefield radio chatter and any systems on Task Force vehicles that stream live, and then grants access to the the result to all groups like Nexus and Kayora that want it, as well as making specific information available to the commanders like Jolly when they need it.

If we wanted to take this one step further, Atlas could have some computer system assimilate the data into a cohesive model of the operation area that could be contributed to by live data from teams on the ground and assets like UAVs or cameras in the area, and analyses/predictions derived from the preexisting data by systems like Nexus. Said model would be a very valuable asset for commanders, and potentially could also be useful for soldiers on the ground with devices to view it upon or augmented reality systems that could include its information.

Naturally, Congreveopia Data Command would be more than happy to set this up, and there will definitely not be any backdoors or spyware in the system for Nexus to use. That's totally not the sort of thing we would do in a heartbeat, no sir.

I was the one with that member, though in the current op, that member is Irish, and he's carrying the nuke on his back. He's in the field op due to the fact that Jolly is on-site acting as a sort of field coordinator, and Irish doesn't have to. If he survives Legion, he'll be back at his desk, or sitting next to Jolly in order to coordinate the Sentinel team and assist in Task Force coordination in general. URA's working on an AI, but it's still having kinks, and even when it does come up, there'll most likely still be desk jockeys who liase between the teams and the AI, so Irish won't be laid off just yet.

I'm all for the idea of standardizing and spreading information so everyone is able to view it. Currently, in Legion, Jolly has a scratched-down system like that, and can really only get locations of most teams, but since it's a Remnant-centric system, he only gets the 100% info dump from, obviously enough, the Sentinels. I believe a good info-cache would be necessary and Data Command has the go ahead.

This idea actually never ran into OS' and I's mind. OS was worrying more about logistics: Assets, base locations, and standalone capabilities of the task force. Van was occupied with the command structure. I think that works though, if everyone just naturally follows a different thought pattern to get this put together more efficiently.

Would every soldier be getting this uplink, or only squad leaders and the field commander? Or is there a tiered system of information to be spread so a Hurti rifleman isn't pummeled with updates about the UAV picking up recon data for the Froxian sniper team? I'm guessing Nexus(or maybe all the Task Force member nations offer their AI to coordinate this) would govern where certain intel goes?

I think the soldiers would be able to request data on the fly as they needed it [use case #1], but the only data they would be forced to get would be the normal radio chatter. In addition to this, though, whatever offsite intelligences are watching this data (Jolly, Nexus, etc) might choose to point out something relevant to a soldier or a team[use case #2]. Also, they could request extra data sent to them live before the mission (although we would need to establish limits to this: bandwidth is probably limited) [use case #3].

To give examples of the ways this might be used, an average soldier might decide that they want a satellite map of the nearby area on their goggles's HUD with a heat map of suspected hostiles overlaid on it [use case #3]. Then, part way through the mission, they might come up to an alley where they're expecting resistance and then open up some electronic device, look at the information about that alley, notice Nexus hacked a security camera in it, and then pull up that security camera feed to look for enemies [use case #1]. Also, at some point, their squad may be in a building, and Kayora is watching the feed from a drone outside which sees an armoured vehicle pull up, so she might choose to alert them about that [use case #2].

by **Hurtful Thoughts** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:15 pm

So long as I still have an Mil Mi-6 gunship, a pair of Mi-17s, and pilots for them on-hand, they will be available for any drunken silly shenanigans when not aboard missions.

Also may allow a destroyer (DDHM, M is for the octuple 318mm mortar-battery in the fantail, because I like having epic [nuclear-capable] fire-support when conducting raids) to participate in smaller missions. But unlikely since !stealth.

Kayora does not stream intel live (just bursts/packets) as our forces have a concern with "emissions" and/or brain-hijacking. This ofc, means you have to shout at Kayora to "check-in" if anything worth mentioning happens (though she usually gets curious on her own). In short, not exactly the most e-situationaly-aware unit.

As for personal equipment standards: we can adapt to a standard-cartridge if necessary, but will always retain at least one soldier using indigenous specialty arms and ammunition (provided there is a sidearm issued to them in standard-caliber).

by **The United Remnants of America** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:47 pm

Congreveopia wrote:
URA via TG wrote:I was the one with that member, though in the current op, that member is Irish, and he's carrying the nuke on his back. He's in the field op due to the fact that Jolly is on-site acting as a sort of field coordinator, and Irish doesn't have to. If he survives Legion, he'll be back at his desk, or sitting next to Jolly in order to coordinate the Sentinel team and assist in Task Force coordination in general. URA's working on an AI, but it's still having kinks, and even when it does come up, there'll most likely still be desk jockeys who liase between the teams and the AI, so Irish won't be laid off just yet.

I'm all for the idea of standardizing and spreading information so everyone is able to view it. Currently, in Legion, Jolly has a scratched-down system like that, and can really only get locations of most teams, but since it's a Remnant-centric system, he only gets the 100% info dump from, obviously enough, the Sentinels. I believe a good info-cache would be necessary and Data Command has the go ahead.

This idea actually never ran into OS' and I's mind. OS was worrying more about logistics: Assets, base locations, and standalone capabilities of the task force. Van was occupied with the command structure. I think that works though, if everyone just naturally follows a different thought pattern to get this put together more efficiently.

Would every soldier be getting this uplink, or only squad leaders and the field commander? Or is there a tiered system of information to be spread so a Hurti rifleman isn't pummeled with updates about the UAV picking up recon data for the Froxian sniper team? I'm guessing Nexus(or maybe all the Task Force member nations offer their AI to coordinate this) would govern where certain intel goes?

I think the soldiers would be able to request data on the fly as they needed it [use case #1], but the only data they would be forced to get would be the normal radio chatter. In addition to this, though, whatever offsite intelligences are watching this data (Jolly, Nexus, etc) might choose to point out something relevant to a soldier or a team[use case #2]. Also, they could request extra data sent to them live before the mission (although we would need to establish limits to this: bandwidth is probably limited) [use case #3].

To give examples of the ways this might be used, an average soldier might decide that they want a satellite map of the nearby area on their goggles's HUD with a heat map of suspected hostiles overlaid on it [use case #3]. Then, part way through the mission, they might come up to an alley where they're expecting resistance and then open up some electronic device, look at the information about that alley, notice Nexus hacked a security camera in it, and then pull up that security camera feed to look for enemies [use case #1]. Also, at some point, their squad may be in a building, and Kayora is watching the feed from a drone outside which sees an armoured vehicle pull up, so she might choose to alert them about that [use case #2].

I like that a lot, actually. Would there need to be a physical location where all this information is stored/filed/coordinated? If so, does it exist, or does it need to be constructed? If the latter, it could be added in as an addition to this psuedo-real base we have.

by **The United Remnants of America** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:50 pm

Hurtful Thoughts wrote:So long as I still have an Mil Mi-6 gunship, a pair of Mi-17s, and pilots for them on-hand, they will be available for any drunken silly shenanigans when not aboard missions.

Also may allow a destroyer (DDHM, M is for the octuple 318mm mortar-battery in the fantail, because I like having epic [nuclear-capable] fire-support when conducting raids) to participate in smaller missions. But unlikely since !stealth.

Kayora does not stream intel live (just bursts/packets) as our forces have a concern with "emissions" and/or brain-hijacking. This ofc, means you have to shout at Kayora to "check-in" if anything worth mentioning happens (though she usually gets curious on her own). In short, not exactly the most e-situationaly-aware unit.

As for personal equipment standards: we can adapt to a standard-cartridge if necessary, but will always retain at least one soldier using indigenous specialty arms and ammunition (provided there is a sidearm issued to them in standard-caliber).

The issue with the helos is they may/may-not be needed if we standardize assets, or possibly it may be on a donation system, so they could be added to the roster for use. We don'y know yet.

The destroyer would be nice to add to the flotilla that will probably exist to support Atlas when they're not operating from teh ground base.

What's a standard Hurti cartridge?

by **Congreveopia** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:51 pm

The United Remnants of America wrote:
Congreveopia wrote:I think the soldiers would be able to request data on the fly as they needed it [use case #1], but the only data they would be forced to get would be the normal radio chatter. In addition to this, though, whatever offsite intelligences are watching this data (Jolly, Nexus, etc) might choose to point out something relevant to a soldier or a team[use case #2]. Also, they could request extra data sent to them live before the mission (although we would need to establish limits to this: bandwidth is probably limited) [use case #3].

To give examples of the ways this might be used, an average soldier might decide that they want a satellite map of the nearby area on their goggles's HUD with a heat map of suspected hostiles overlaid on it [use case #3]. Then, part way through the mission, they might come up to an alley where they're expecting resistance and then open up some electronic device, look at the information about that alley, notice Nexus hacked a security camera in it, and then pull up that security camera feed to look for enemies [use case #1]. Also, at some point, their squad may be in a building, and Kayora is watching the feed from a drone outside which sees an armoured vehicle pull up, so she might choose to alert them about that [use case #2].

I like that a lot, actually. Would there need to be a physical location where all this information is stored/filed/coordinated? If so, does it exist, or does it need to be constructed? If the latter, it could be added in as an addition to this psuedo-real base we have.

I mean, you could buy server time from Congreveopia or most other nations or even some corporations, but the safest option is probably to put it at the base so that it won't get blown up or have a power failure just as the critical stage of a mission goes into action.

by **The United Remnants of America** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:15 pm

Congreveopia wrote:
The United Remnants of America wrote:
I like that a lot, actually. Would there need to be a physical location where all this information is stored/filed/coordinated? If so, does it exist, or does it need to be constructed? If the latter, it could be added in as an addition to this psuedo-real base we have.

I mean, you could buy server time from Congreveopia or most other nations or even some corporations, but the safest option is probably to put it at the base so that it won't get blown up or have a power failure just as the critical stage of a mission goes into action.

No, buy it in timed contracts from a corporation, like a cell phone contract.

"Hey, guys, I think there may be a sniper nest at the end of that alley, can we get some intel on it?"

"Sorry, mate, can't get anything. Say, doesn't the bill come at the end of the month for that stuff?"

"Yeah. What day is today?"

"The first."

"Fuck."

e. So, on-base intel sever, check.

by **Hurtful Thoughts** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:16 pm

The United Remnants of America wrote:
Hurtful Thoughts wrote:So long as I still have an Mil Mi-6 gunship, a pair of Mi-17s, and pilots for them on-hand, they will be available for any drunken silly shenanigans when not aboard missions.

Also may allow a destroyer (DDHM, M is for the octuple 318mm mortar-battery in the fantail, because I like having epic [nuclear-capable] fire-support when conducting raids) to participate in smaller missions. But unlikely since !stealth.

Kayora does not stream intel live (just bursts/packets) as our forces have a concern with "emissions" and/or brain-hijacking. This ofc, means you have to shout at Kayora to "check-in" if anything worth mentioning happens (though she usually gets curious on her own). In short, not exactly the most e-situationaly-aware unit.

As for personal equipment standards: we can adapt to a standard-cartridge if necessary, but will always retain at least one soldier using indigenous specialty arms and ammunition (provided there is a sidearm issued to them in standard-caliber).

The issue with the helos is they may/may-not be needed if we standardize assets, or possibly it may be on a donation system, so they could be added to the roster for use. We don'y know yet.

The destroyer would be nice to add to the flotilla that will probably exist to support Atlas when they're not operating from teh ground base.

What's a standard Hurti cartridge?

A +P loading of the 6.5x55mm ARAM back from when I used to run with the multi-national peacekeeper (MGS-style) crowd. Pretty much it was tailored for in the event my tunnel-rats ever encountered a metal-gear.
-After GASN dissolved, I just made 6.5x55 HURT my standard. Although 6.5x55 Swede is also available. 6.5x25 CBJ or 9x19 Para are standard pistol cartridges, although the .40 S&W is also an option within the same frames. For large-frame pistols we have sawn-off shotguns and krinkov-style micro-rifles.

The long-range ballistics and penetration of the round is pretty f'in ridiculous. Think all the hype of the 6.5 Grendal driven with as much power as a .338 Laupa.
-That said, training/ball-ammo is generally still loaded at reduced power comparable to the 6.5x55 ARAM.

We also still support 'legacy' cartridges such as 7.62x54R, 7.62x25 TT/Mauser, 8mm Nambu, and 8x50R Lebel.
-We do NOT support, however, 12.7x99 or 12.7x107.We elected to use the 12.7x81SR Breda round.

by **The United Remnants of America** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:24 pm

Hurtful Thoughts wrote:
The United Remnants of America wrote:The issue with the helos is they may/may-not be needed if we standardize assets, or possibly it may be on a donation system, so they could be added to the roster for use. We don'y know yet.

The destroyer would be nice to add to the flotilla that will probably exist to support Atlas when they're not operating from teh ground base.

What's a standard Hurti cartridge?

A +P loading of the 6.5x55mm ARAM back from when I used to run with the multi-national peacekeeper (MGS-style) crowd. Pretty much it was tailored for in the event my tunnel-rats ever encountered a metal-gear.
-After GASN dissolved, I just made 6.5x55 HURT my standard. Although 6.5x55 Swede is also available. 6.5x25 CBJ or 9x19 Para are standard pistol cartridges, although the .40 S&W is also an option within the same frames. For large-frame pistols we have sawn-off shotguns and krinkov-style micro-rifles.

The long-range ballistics and penetration of the round is pretty f'in ridiculous. Think all the hype of the 6.5 Grendal driven with as much power as a .338 Laupa.
-That said, training/ball-ammo is generally still loaded at reduced power comparable to the 6.5x55 ARAM.

Well, that sucks. We don't have a similar round.

Our pistols use 9x19mm para and 5.7x28mm, and either pistol can use .40 S&W as an alternate. Our SMG uses .45 ACP or .40 S&W, so all our small arms can use forty caliber rounds.

The 3 Remnant rifles all chamber the basic 5.56x45mm NATO round. The marksman-y one can also chamber 7.62x51mm NATO and the beginner light rifle can use 6.8mm SPC.

Of course, our other weapons use the .300 Winchester Magnum for long-range weapons, 12 Guage for shotguns, and, of course the 50 BMG and .416 Barret for anti-materiel weapons.

by **Hurtful Thoughts** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:29 pm

The United Remnants of America wrote:
Hurtful Thoughts wrote:A +P loading of the 6.5x55mm ARAM back from when I used to run with the multi-national peacekeeper (MGS-style) crowd. Pretty much it was tailored for in the event my tunnel-rats ever encountered a metal-gear.
-After GASN dissolved, I just made 6.5x55 HURT my standard. Although 6.5x55 Swede is also available. 6.5x25 CBJ or 9x19 Para are standard pistol cartridges, although the .40 S&W is also an option within the same frames. For large-frame pistols we have sawn-off shotguns and krinkov-style micro-rifles.

The long-range ballistics and penetration of the round is pretty f'in ridiculous. Think all the hype of the 6.5 Grendal driven with as much power as a .338 Laupa.
-That said, training/ball-ammo is generally still loaded at reduced power comparable to the 6.5x55 ARAM.

Well, that sucks. We don't have a similar round.

Our pistols use 9x19mm para and 5.7x28mm, and either pistol can use .40 S&W as an alternate. Our SMG uses .45 ACP or .40 S&W, so all our small arms can use forty caliber rounds.

The 3 Remnant rifles all chamber the basic 5.56x45mm NATO round. The marksman-y one can also chamber 7.62x51mm NATO and the beginner light rifle can use 6.8mm SPC.

Of course, our other weapons use the .300 Winchester Magnum for long-range weapons, 12 Guage for shotguns, and, of course the 50 BMG and .416 Barret for anti-materiel weapons.

Hmmm a PPSh-41 chambered in .40 S&W....

To complicate matters, there was also an 9x53R HMG round made by necking-up a Mosin-cartridge.

by **The United Remnants of America** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:30 pm

Hurtful Thoughts wrote:
The United Remnants of America wrote:
Well, that sucks. We don't have a similar round.

Our pistols use 9x19mm para and 5.7x28mm, and either pistol can use .40 S&W as an alternate. Our SMG uses .45 ACP or .40 S&W, so all our small arms can use forty caliber rounds.

The 3 Remnant rifles all chamber the basic 5.56x45mm NATO round. The marksman-y one can also chamber 7.62x51mm NATO and the beginner light rifle can use 6.8mm SPC.

Of course, our other weapons use the .300 Winchester Magnum for long-range weapons, 12 Guage for shotguns, and, of course the 50 BMG and .416 Barret for anti-materiel weapons.

Hmmm a PPSh-41 chambered in .40 S&W....

Well, for us, it's a Super-V, so same idea, lol

by **Patrick OConner** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:38 pm

The United Remnants of America wrote:
Hurtful Thoughts wrote:Hmmm a PPSh-41 chambered in .40 S&W....

Well, for us, it's a Super-V, so same idea, lol

What about the Five seen? is is a god pistol. Also we use 5.56 nato and the 7.62 nato. .45 acp is used for side arms well. Also the 12 ga and 50 BMG and the .300 magnum as well Of course there is the M101 mighty milly which is a 20mm.

Also did i miss anything on command structure?

by **Organized States** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:39 pm

The United Remnants of America wrote:
Hurtful Thoughts wrote:A +P loading of the 6.5x55mm ARAM back from when I used to run with the multi-national peacekeeper (MGS-style) crowd. Pretty much it was tailored for in the event my tunnel-rats ever encountered a metal-gear.
-After GASN dissolved, I just made 6.5x55 HURT my standard. Although 6.5x55 Swede is also available. 6.5x25 CBJ or 9x19 Para are standard pistol cartridges, although the .40 S&W is also an option within the same frames. For large-frame pistols we have sawn-off shotguns and krinkov-style micro-rifles.

The long-range ballistics and penetration of the round is pretty f'in ridiculous. Think all the hype of the 6.5 Grendal driven with as much power as a .338 Laupa.
-That said, training/ball-ammo is generally still loaded at reduced power comparable to the 6.5x55 ARAM.

Well, that sucks. We don't have a similar round.

Our pistols use 9x19mm para and 5.7x28mm, and either pistol can use .40 S&W as an alternate. Our SMG uses .45 ACP or .40 S&W, so all our small arms can use forty caliber rounds.

The 3 Remnant rifles all chamber the basic 5.56x45mm NATO round. The marksman-y one can also chamber 7.62x51mm NATO and the beginner light rifle can use 6.8mm SPC.

Of course, our other weapons use the .300 Winchester Magnum for long-range weapons, 12 Guage for shotguns, and, of course the 50 BMG and .416 Barret for anti-materiel weapons.

Currently, I'm using the Standard NATO rifle rounds. My pistol round is currently the .45 ACP (used in my HK-45Ts, CTs, and FNH FNX-45s).

Along with 12 Gauge and .308 Winchester.

by **Hurtful Thoughts** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:46 pm

The United Remnants of America wrote:
Hurtful Thoughts wrote:Hmmm a PPSh-41 chambered in .40 S&W....

Well, for us, it's a Super-V, so same idea, lol

Give it a 16-inch barrel and it weighs same as an M-16.

PPS-43 actually weighs less, or we can use old reliable Pepagsha-Katushya.
-Picture for a sec, Kayora with a PPSh-41 instead of a '43, firing the stockier .40 S&W round. Sounds like good times ahead.

by **The United Remnants of America** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:03 pm

Hurtful Thoughts wrote:
The United Remnants of America wrote:Well, for us, it's a Super-V, so same idea, lol

Give it a 16-inch barrel and it weighs same as an M-16.

PPS-43 actually weighs less, or we can use old reliable Pepagsha-Katushya.
-Picture for a sec, Kayora with a PPSh-41 instead of a '43, firing the stockier .40 S&W round.

16in barrel is a carbine.

A carbine with an 1,500rpm rate of fire. I don't think an M-16 can handle that.

Worth it.

Patrick OConner wrote:
The United Remnants of America wrote:Well, for us, it's a Super-V, so same idea, lol

What about the Five seen? is is a god pistol. Also we use 5.56 nato and the 7.62 nato. .45 acp is used for side arms well. Also the 12 ga and 50 BMG and the .300 magnum as well Of course there is the M101 mighty milly which is a 20mm.

Also did i miss anything on command structure?

Good, so we use similar rounds for most everything. What about, what about the five-seven?

No.

Organized States wrote:
The United Remnants of America wrote:
Well, that sucks. We don't have a similar round.

Our pistols use 9x19mm para and 5.7x28mm, and either pistol can use .40 S&W as an alternate. Our SMG uses .45 ACP or .40 S&W, so all our small arms can use forty caliber rounds.

The 3 Remnant rifles all chamber the basic 5.56x45mm NATO round. The marksman-y one can also chamber 7.62x51mm NATO and the beginner light rifle can use 6.8mm SPC.

Of course, our other weapons use the .300 Winchester Magnum for long-range weapons, 12 Guage for shotguns, and, of course the 50 BMG and .416 Barret for anti-materiel weapons.

Currently, I'm using the Standard NATO rifle rounds. My pistol round is currently the .45 ACP (used in my HK-45Ts, CTs, and FNH FNX-45s).

Along with 12 Gauge and .308 Winchester.

Ugh, change the .308 to a .300 Magnum. Join usssss.

What weapon handles that?

by **Patrick OConner** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:19 pm

Force Recon favors the Five seveN over the .45. More bullets to carry better pentration. or is every one here dead set on the .45 ACP?

by **The United Remnants of America** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:23 pm

Patrick OConner wrote:Force Recon favors the Five seveN over the .45. More bullets to carry better pentration. or is every one here dead set on the .45 ACP?

None of us are dead-set on the .45. But the Five-seveN can be chambered in .40 S&W, which it seems so far we can all use, since all of our sidearms can use it.

by **Patrick OConner** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:37 pm

The United Remnants of America wrote:
Patrick OConner wrote:Force Recon favors the Five seveN over the .45. More bullets to carry better pentration. or is every one here dead set on the .45 ACP?

None of us are dead-set on the .45. But the Five-seveN can be chambered in .40 S&W, which it seems so far we can all use, since all of our sidearms can use it.

I would rather stick with the original round the gun was designed for if that is okay. Other wise i would rather switch to a 1911 firing the 45 acp

by **Vancon** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:37 pm

Hello?

by **Hurtful Thoughts** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:47 pm

Tactical 6.5 is tactical, gets it done.

I'd post a fox-hunt video, but sensibilities.

by **Organized States** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:14 pm

Patrick OConner wrote:Force Recon favors the Five seveN over the .45. More bullets to carry better pentration. or is every one here dead set on the .45 ACP?

You can get high capacity .45 ACP magazines standard. The FNX-45T has a 15-round standard magazine, for example.

"Close air support covereth a multitude of sins." - Maxim 4 Congreveopia is an advanced MT nation, managed by the artificial superintelligence known as "Nexus". It is very active in global affairs, and loves manipulating nations to steer the future of the world.	Links: Online Information Repository Factbooks RPs
Equator Confederation wrote:Congreveopia has spoken. Do it now. Vancon wrote:Enter Cong, the smartest of our bunch. The United Remnants of America wrote:Except for Cong, whom I'm now decently sure is a superhuman being we should probably be worshipping.

PW: Behind the Scenes: Building Task Force Atlas

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