1933: The Rise of Dictatorship (Alt-History, OOC, New)

[The corporate states of Astavar]

... hanging one of the most popularly elected presidents in American history and instating a pro-business government when the population is sick and tired of the government doing nothing to solve their problems? A (proto)military coup (really just a bunch of mercenaries, since the regular army fought to protect the elected government) in a nation priding itself on their democratic traditions?...

if this is accepted, very bloody 2nd American Civil War seems inevitable as the states and huge chunks of the population refuse to recognize the illegitimate government. I'm sure the Soviet juggernaut has plenty of equipment they can dump on Democratic forces.

Also, this seems to be more of a Kaiserreich Huey Long. IRL he was a strict anti-corporatist and leftist who actually called for the mass redistribution of wealth as one of the cores of his platform. Not exactly the sort to play the puppet for the business elite.

i'm basing this alternate history on the real conspiracy on the Business Plot of 1933 a plot to overthrow the elected goverment of the united states this would be Roosevelt also has just been elected and is not yet loved by the people it would be easy for the rich industrial capitalists to discredit him, it's also not unrealistic to suggest that many americans would agree that faschism works as a political system none of them have yet to experience the devastation of what facism can really accomplish when given enough time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

[Vortukia]

Reserve United States

[New Granadeseret]

... hanging one of the most popularly elected presidents in American history and instating a pro-business government when the population is sick and tired of the government doing nothing to solve their problems? A (proto)military coup (really just a bunch of mercenaries, since the regular army fought to protect the elected government) in a nation priding itself on their democratic traditions?...

if this is accepted, very bloody 2nd American Civil War seems inevitable as the states and huge chunks of the population refuse to recognize the illegitimate government. I'm sure the Soviet juggernaut has plenty of equipment they can dump on Democratic forces.

Also, this seems to be more of a Kaiserreich Huey Long. IRL he was a strict anti-corporatist and leftist who actually called for the mass redistribution of wealth as one of the cores of his platform. Not exactly the sort to play the puppet for the business elite.

i'm basing this alternate history on the real conspiracy on the Business Plot of 1933 a plot to overthrow the elected goverment of the united states this would be Roosevelt also has just been elected and is not yet loved by the people it would be easy for the rich industrial capitalists to discredit him, it's also not unrealistic to suggest that many americans would agree that faschism works as a political system none of them have yet to experience the devastation of what facism can really accomplish when given enough time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

I was aware the business plot was a thing. However, Roosevelt just won in a landslide: heck, since he'd still be in the 100 days with Congress fully behind him what opposition he did have haden't even had time to form yet. Just yelling "treason!" with no strong explanation and marching a private army on the capital before he even so much as gets any of The New Deal declared unconstitutional when the Democrats had such massive support and numbers smacks of an undemocratic coup: and how can you claimed he betrayed the nation when Congress was on his side en-mass and he haden't even had time to pass anything controversial yet?

Also... rich industrial capitalists were pretty well discredited at this point. The Great Depression and the mass failure of the "laizze faire" system they'd been loudly supporting for awhile now to actually provide for the American people. Nobody is going to take them and their hired army's words more seriously then that of the representatives they just elected to protect their interests, particularly when you just attacked the actual army in order for the cronically unpopular with the Senate Long to be accepted into power you'd basically have to purge half the legislative branch. Maybe in a few years when the New Deal has taken some lumps on it's Constitutionality you might have a prayer... but making him into a martyr would hardly be a recipe for stability.

Your argument would basically require the American people to discount all the support they threw behind the Democrats just months ago with an expectation they'd make things better, before they even had a chance to take action, and instead put it in the hands of the men who they blamed for the crisis and had just taken control of the government in a way that violated every principal they'd ever stood for. Germany and Italy accepted Facism because A) at first it didn't fundimentally change their system of government (The Nazi party was elected, after all, and Mussolini was named Prime Minister by the King), and B) the government of the day had been so woefully terrible at solving the crisis for so long and the people saw no other way of replacing them, and blamed outside/'other' forces for their nations woes. If the Facists had been elected because the Democrats stuck to the old economic orthodoxy, that would certainly be more plausible... but that requires going too far back for the POD. The American people's solution for the crisis was Roosevelt and his New Deal, and quite frankly I think a Socialist uprising against corporate influence is far more likely then wide support for a dictatorship controlled by the demons of the day.

[The corporate states of Astavar]

I was aware the business plot was a thing. However, Roosevelt just won in a landslide: heck, since he'd still be in the 100 days with Congress fully behind him what opposition he did have haden't even had time to form yet. Just yelling "treason!" with no strong explanation and marching a private army on the capital before he even so much as gets any of The New Deal declared unconstitutional when the Democrats had such massive support and numbers smacks of an undemocratic coup: and how can you claimed he betrayed the nation when Congress was on his side en-mass and he haden't even had time to pass anything controversial yet?

Also... rich industrial capitalists were pretty well discredited at this point. The Great Depression and the mass failure of the "laizze faire" system they'd been loudly supporting for awhile now to actually provide for the American people. Nobody is going to take them and their hired army's words more seriously then that of the representatives they just elected to protect their interests, particularly when you just attacked the actual army in order for the cronically unpopular with the Senate Long to be accepted into power you'd basically have to purge half the legislative branch. Maybe in a few years when the New Deal has taken some lumps on it's Constitutionality you might have a prayer... but making him into a martyr would hardly be a recipe for stability.

Your argument would basically require the American people to discount all the support they threw behind the Democrats just months ago with an expectation they'd make things better, before they even had a chance to take action, and instead put it in the hands of the men who they blamed for the crisis and had just taken control of the government in a way that violated every principal they'd ever stood for. Germany and Italy accepted Facism because A) at first it didn't fundimentally change their system of government (The Nazi party was elected, after all, and Mussolini was named Prime Minister by the King), and B) the government of the day had been so woefully terrible at solving the crisis for so long and the people saw no other way of replacing them, and blamed outside/'other' forces for their nations woes. If the Facists had been elected because the Democrats stuck to the old economic orthodoxy, that would certainly be more plausible... but that requires going too far back for the POD. The American people's solution for the crisis was Roosevelt and his New Deal, and quite frankly I think a Socialist uprising against corporate influence is far more likely then wide support for a dictatorship controlled by the demons of the day.

Frankly i completely agree with you but this is Alternate history there is nothing stopping me from simply stating that Roosevelt just won by a slim margin or that facist militant groups froursihed after the
great depression. now this isn't realistic i can see that but history is full of crossroads and this is how it went for america.

[Vortukia]

NS Name: The Sovereignty of Vortukia
Nation Name: The United States of America
Head of State: Franklin D. Roosevelt
Head of Government: President of the United States
Size of Army: 12 Million Personnel
Size of Navy: 3.5 Million Personnel
800 Major Combatant Ships
20 Aircraft Carriers
Size of Air Force: 500 Thousand Personnel
80,000 Aircraft (Army and Navy Air Forces)
Flag:

Map:

Population: 132,164,569 Citizens

This is a short application, not because I didn't put effort into it. But because a lot of the United States information of that time is available online, and it was a short application to fill out. Not much was really required. I am welcome to post a shortish statement after acceptance on the US foreign policy, doctrine, and stance on current events in this war. From MY perspective.

[Amuaplye]

NS Name: The Sovereignty of Vortukia
Nation Name: The United States of America
Head of State: Franklin D. Roosevelt
Head of Government: President of the United States
Size of Army: 12 Million Personnel
Size of Navy: 3.5 Million Personnel
800 Major Combatant Ships
20 Aircraft Carriers
Size of Air Force: 500 Thousand Personnel
80,000 Aircraft (Army and Navy Air Forces)
Flag:

(Image)

Map:

(Image)

Population: 132,164,569 Citizens

This is a short application, not because I didn't put effort into it. But because a lot of the United States information of that time is available online, and it was a short application to fill out. Not much was really required. I am welcome to post a shortish statement after acceptance on the US foreign policy, doctrine, and stance on current events in this war. From MY perspective.

Accepted.

[Amuaplye]

IC: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopi ... 1&t=335785

[New Granadeseret]

IC:https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=335785

Would make most sense for Germany to start, likely with Hitler's coronation address or something along that vein.

[Amuaplye]

IC:https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=335785

Would make most sense for Germany to start, likely with Hitler's coronation address or something along that vein.

The OP says after Hitler became Chancellor.

[Ingeria]

NS Name: The Free Capitalist Republic of Ingeria
Nation Name: The Albanian Kingdom
Head of State: King Zog I
Head of Government: Pandeli Evangjeli
Size of Army: 35 000 Personnel
Size of Navy: 5000 Personnel
3 Battle-ships
Size of Air Force: 3000 Personnel
Flag: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/Flag_of_Albania_%281934-1939%29.svg
Map: http://www.nationsonline.org/maps/albania-map-855.jpg
Population: 1,003,097

[World Anarchic Union]

Who will post first in the IC? After Amuaplye of course.

[New Granadeseret]

Who will post first in the IC? After Amuaplye of course.

France needs to know what actions Germany is taking so we can react. It's not like we're going to get into an armed conflict over the victory of a man we don't like in a free and fair election. *glances at South Carolina*

[Jaslandia]

Who will post first in the IC? After Amuaplye of course.

France needs to know what actions Germany is taking so we can react. It's not like we're going to get into an armed conflict over the victory of a man we don't like in a free and fair election. *glances at South Carolina*

Similarly, Italy also waits to see what Germany will do. We're waiting to see if Germany would be willing to ally with a fellow Fascist nation, or if Italy will have to turn elsewhere for support.

[Independent States of Tula]

France needs to know what actions Germany is taking so we can react. It's not like we're going to get into an armed conflict over the victory of a man we don't like in a free and fair election. *glances at South Carolina*

Similarly, Italy also waits to see what Germany will do. We're waiting to see if Germany would be willing to ally with a fellow Fascist nation, or if Italy will have to turn elsewhere for support.

*Waves from Poland* Hello!

[New Granadeseret]

Similarly, Italy also waits to see what Germany will do. We're waiting to see if Germany would be willing to ally with a fellow Fascist nation, or if Italy will have to turn elsewhere for support.

*Waves from Poland* Hello!

Well, Italian ambitions are mainly in the Balkans... maybe they buddy-up with Hungary or Bulgaria to take down Yugoslavia?

Also, if Poland buddies up with Italy any Pact of Steel would basically be a non-starter (And Mother U.S.S.R might have a few words to say on the issue (At least before The Great Purge critically cripples them) . From this POD, it could go any number of ways.

[Jaslandia]

Similarly, Italy also waits to see what Germany will do. We're waiting to see if Germany would be willing to ally with a fellow Fascist nation, or if Italy will have to turn elsewhere for support.

*Waves from Poland* Hello!

As long as you can keep yourself from being a German chew toy, I'll consider it. I've also been floating the idea of an alliance with the USA, because why not?

[The Vekta-Helghast Empire]

I wanna see what Germany does too and consider whether or not to pursue the Anglo-Polish alliance. Especially since last time the Germans adopted nationalism they founded a nation which would prove to be one of the greatest threats to British dominance since Napoleon.

[Jaslandia]

*Waves from Poland* Hello!

Well, Italian ambitions are mainly in the Balkans... maybe they buddy-up with Hungary or Bulgaria to take down Yugoslavia?

To be honest, I think I may have Italy be slightly less militaristic in this RP. I may exercise my military muscle a bit in Africa, but I'll mostly stay out of the Balkans so I can focus on cultivating good relations with nations like Britain, France, and the US. If I can get their support, maybe then I'll intervene in the Balkans.

[New Granadeseret]

I wanna see what Germany does too and consider whether or not to pursue the Anglo-Polish alliance. Especially since last time the Germans adopted nationalism they founded a nation which would prove to be one of the greatest threats to British dominance since Napoleon.

Eh, I'd be more concerned with the massive Socialist blob at the moment. Bigger army, bigger industry, and their leader has a bigger mustache. And since this is 1933 there's not yet a Great Purge crippling his officer corps and making the Red Army essentially an unworkable mess.

Also, speaking of Napleon, don't want Action Francaise getting too uppity. Might be encouraged by the Nazi election.

*Italy*: ... you're Facist Italy. Militarism is kind of Fascism's thing. Yugoslavia is hardly best buddies with anybody, and is hardly the most stable of countries. It's not like the US; still in heavy Isolationism mode and dealing with their own Great Depression, are going to be particularly concerned with European affairs. We're certainly not going to care if you get into a minor war with them over this or that claim, or something relating to the rise in Croatian Fascism.

[World Anarchic Union]

So does Soviet Union want an alliance with Republican Spain? Or any other leftist nation?

[The Vekta-Helghast Empire]

Eh, a Soviet Alliance with Spain seems a tad pointless - they'd be unable to support them in practically any conflict. For example - should France engage Spain for some reason, the Russian navy and airforce would be obliterated by the Entente cordiale. Though, I will admit - political backing from the USSR would give Spain more influence on the world stage, perhaps.

And I never really thought about that Granadeseret, Commies are definitely a problem.. Not too worried about France however, since the two nations fought and bled in the Trenches for eight long years together - I don't imagine anyone would be enthusiastic about a Franco-British War.

[Jaslandia]

*Italy*: ... you're Facist Italy. Militarism is kind of Fascism's thing. Yugoslavia is hardly best buddies with anybody, and is hardly the most stable of countries. It's not like the US; still in heavy Isolationism mode and dealing with their own Great Depression, are going to be particularly concerned with European affairs. We're certainly not going to care if you get into a minor war with them over this or that claim, or something relating to the rise in Croatian Fascism.

I said I'd show off my militarism in Africa. Italy will still be militaristic, except this Mussolini will also be concerned about not being an international pariah. If Mussolini can get assurance that the Western powers will not ostracize Italy for the Fascists' militarism, then Italy will eagerly invade the Balkans. I'm just planning to RP Mussolini as a bit more pragmatic than he was in RL history.

[New Granadeseret]

Eh, a Soviet Alliance with Spain seems a tad pointless - they'd be unable to support them in practically any conflict. For example - should France engage Spain for some reason, the Russian navy and airforce would be obliterated by the Entente cordiale. Though, I will admit - political backing from the USSR would give Spain more influence on the world stage, perhaps.

And I never really thought about that Granadeseret, Commies are definitely a problem.. Not too worried about France however, since the two nations fought and bled in the Trenches for eight long years together - I don't imagine anyone would be enthusiastic about a Franco-British War.

I was more referring to Louis Napoleon, our current Bonaparte pretender. The last thing we need is another March on Rome or Beer Hall Coup with the current international situation, and a civil war would be... uncomfortable to say the least.

The situation beyond the Pyrenees isen't too much of interest to us at the moment: Spain is generally a non-threat. British policy would likely be greatly influenced by their long-time ally Portugal's stance. As long as French economic interests aren't nationalized we really could care less, except maybe to snatch up those annoying gaps in our West African empire.

[The Vekta-Helghast Empire]

Eh, a Soviet Alliance with Spain seems a tad pointless - they'd be unable to support them in practically any conflict. For example - should France engage Spain for some reason, the Russian navy and airforce would be obliterated by the Entente cordiale. Though, I will admit - political backing from the USSR would give Spain more influence on the world stage, perhaps.

And I never really thought about that Granadeseret, Commies are definitely a problem.. Not too worried about France however, since the two nations fought and bled in the Trenches for eight long years together - I don't imagine anyone would be enthusiastic about a Franco-British War.

I was more referring to Louis Napoleon, our current Bonaparte pretender. The last thing we need is another March on Rome or Beer Hall Coup with the current international situation, and a civil war would be... uncomfortable to say the least.

The situation beyond the Pyrenees isen't too much of interest to us at the moment: Spain is generally a non-threat. British policy would likely be greatly influenced by their long-time ally Portugal's stance. As long as French economic interests aren't nationalized we really could care less, except maybe to snatch up those annoying gaps in our West African empire.

Ah, muh bad. Though - I think we could both agree, that neither France nor Britain wish to see a Red Spain on their borders or that of their allies. So depending on how left this Spanish Republic swings, y'might see some British interventionism or increased activity around the Iberian peninsula.

[World Anarchic Union]

Leave Republican Spain out of this. This is why Spain turns to the Soviet Union, because of the rejection of leftism by the west.
Also, I believe Soviet Union could benefit from having an ally to the west.