Pax Per Bellum: An 18th century Alt-History RP [OOC, OPEN]

[Kherkov]

Again, they could just be minor NPC nations that are conquered during the IC. I have plans for that region, anyway.

Erm, I didn't think so?

Ok.

Here.

That map doesn't include Karelia. It includes Novgorod, but not Karelia. And Tartary has Novgorod in my map.

[Jade Confederacy]

The China versus Japan debate is a bit more nuanced than what you make out.

Yes, China has the larger population base, but it's got a lot of issues to deal with that Japan doesn't need to worry about. Sure, China can field more troops than Japan, but it's not exactly easy to assemble the levies across as vast a nation as China into various armies and then go campaigning with those armies. On top of that, China has to detach a significant portion of her strength to defend the western and northern frontiers.

It's perfectly feasible that Japan could invade and fight off the local Chinese forces on even terms, and then dealing with the armies formed in more distant parts of the nation piecemeal.

That's a moot point regardless: there isn't really anywhere in China that could sustain a huge army for very long, except perhaps the North China Plain.

Yep, that the problem with big nations, but I don't see any problem considering I split my forces 40/60 in terms of field armies/garrisons thus avoiding he need for feudal levies. The main advantage the japan has over me is the Sea of Japan as I need to transport 100k troops and supply them over water, which would be very hard. Japan's geography will also be a pain in the ass since it's so mountainous-but that's in my favor since he needs to gather his troops first to defend against me. The second I gain a foothold in the hold in the home islands, japan can kiss its independence goodbye

[Lunas Legion]

Ok.

Here.

That map doesn't include Karelia. It includes Novgorod, but not Karelia. And Tartary has Novgorod in my map.

I was confusing Novgorod with St Petersburg. My bad.

[Kherkov]

That map doesn't include Karelia. It includes Novgorod, but not Karelia. And Tartary has Novgorod in my map.

I was confusing Novgorod with St Petersburg. My bad.

Ah, fair enough.

[New Granadeseret]

That map doesn't include Karelia. It includes Novgorod, but not Karelia. And Tartary has Novgorod in my map.

I was confusing Novgorod with St Petersburg. My bad.

St. Petersburg? What is this "St.Petersburg" of which you speak? Do you mean the nearly-unpopulated marshlands with that fort and a few Finnish villages in it? The Swedes are welcome to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyenschantz

[Kherkov]

I was confusing Novgorod with St Petersburg. My bad.

St. Petersburg? What is this "St.Petersburg" of which you speak? Do you mean the nearly-unpopulated marshlands with that fort and a few Finnish villages in it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyenschantz

Very true, very true, it doesn't exist in this timeline... what a shame.

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

For shits and giggles, you could give the white lands between Sweden and Tatary (too lazy to attempt to spell that stuff correctly) to a new nation, Finland. Buffer states are fun, plus it allows to the two to potentially feud over it. Also who doesn't love Finland not in actual Finland?

[Lunas Legion]

St. Petersburg? What is this "St.Petersburg" of which you speak? Do you mean the nearly-unpopulated marshlands with that fort and a few Finnish villages in it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyenschantz

Very true, very true, it doesn't exist in this timeline... what a shame.

Yeah.

[Jade Confederacy]

For shits and giggles, you could give the white lands between Sweden and Tatary (too lazy to attempt to spell that stuff correctly) to a new nation, Finland. Buffer states are fun, plus it allows to the two to potentially feud over it. Also who doesn't love Finland not in actual Finland?

I thought Finland already exist as a duchy within Sweden. I think a Novgorod rump state would be more appropriate

[Alsheb]

For shits and giggles, you could give the white lands between Sweden and Tatary (too lazy to attempt to spell that stuff correctly) to a new nation, Finland. Buffer states are fun, plus it allows to the two to potentially feud over it. Also who doesn't love Finland not in actual Finland?

Seconded. Nothing wrong with a nice buffer state.

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

For shits and giggles, you could give the white lands between Sweden and Tatary (too lazy to attempt to spell that stuff correctly) to a new nation, Finland. Buffer states are fun, plus it allows to the two to potentially feud over it. Also who doesn't love Finland not in actual Finland?

I thought Finland already exist as a duchy within Sweden. I think a Novgorod rump state would be more appropriate

That could be the duchy of Finland, this could be the Kingdom of Finland. Rival Finlands, what is not to like here?

[New Granadeseret]

For shits and giggles, you could give the white lands between Sweden and Tatary (too lazy to attempt to spell that stuff correctly) to a new nation, Finland. Buffer states are fun, plus it allows to the two to potentially feud over it. Also who doesn't love Finland not in actual Finland?

I thought Finland already exist as a duchy within Sweden. I think a Novgorod rump state would be more appropriate

Um... no. In our history, we kind of went out of our way to completely destroy anything resembling Russian independence (There is a reason Russian is not on our list of official languages; it's basically a dead language and displaces by Tartar). Finland seems like a much more likely option

Alternatively, what about a Sami or other non-Norse Scandinavian nation?

[Machtergreifung]

The China versus Japan debate is a bit more nuanced than what you make out.

Yes, China has the larger population base, but it's got a lot of issues to deal with that Japan doesn't need to worry about. Sure, China can field more troops than Japan, but it's not exactly easy to assemble the levies across as vast a nation as China into various armies and then go campaigning with those armies. On top of that, China has to detach a significant portion of her strength to defend the western and northern frontiers.

It's perfectly feasible that Japan could invade and fight off the local Chinese forces on even terms, and then dealing with the armies formed in more distant parts of the nation piecemeal.

That's a moot point regardless: there isn't really anywhere in China that could sustain a huge army for very long, except perhaps the North China Plain.

Yep, that the problem with big nations, but I don't see any problem considering I split my forces 40/60 in terms of field armies/garrisons thus avoiding he need for feudal levies. The main advantage the japan has over me is the Sea of Japan as I need to transport 100k troops and supply them over water, which would be very hard. Japan's geography will also be a pain in the ass since it's so mountainous-but that's in my favor since he needs to gather his troops first to defend against me. The second I gain a foothold in the hold in the home islands, japan can kiss its independence goodbye

China in this timeline has a standing army of only 100,000 men. Pitifully small for the task, even more so if 60,000 of them are stuck in garrison duty.

Resorting to levies is pretty much China's only option as a result. It makes sense, too - why wait two months for trained troops to march across the country when you can raise and train the same number of troops locally? There is a reason that the levy system persisted in China until well after the Second World War.

[Kherkov]

For shits and giggles, you could give the white lands between Sweden and Tatary (too lazy to attempt to spell that stuff correctly) to a new nation, Finland. Buffer states are fun, plus it allows to the two to potentially feud over it. Also who doesn't love Finland not in actual Finland?

You mean as an NPC or player?

[Lunas Legion]

For shits and giggles, you could give the white lands between Sweden and Tatary (too lazy to attempt to spell that stuff correctly) to a new nation, Finland. Buffer states are fun, plus it allows to the two to potentially feud over it. Also who doesn't love Finland not in actual Finland?

You mean as an NPC or player?

I could probably do a Kingdom of Karelia. Odds are it'd get invaded and squashed quickly by Sweden/Tartary, but...

[Jade Confederacy]

Yep, that the problem with big nations, but I don't see any problem considering I split my forces 40/60 in terms of field armies/garrisons thus avoiding he need for feudal levies. The main advantage the japan has over me is the Sea of Japan as I need to transport 100k troops and supply them over water, which would be very hard. Japan's geography will also be a pain in the ass since it's so mountainous-but that's in my favor since he needs to gather his troops first to defend against me. The second I gain a foothold in the hold in the home islands, japan can kiss its independence goodbye

China in this timeline has a standing army of only 100,000 men. Pitifully small for the task, even more so if 60,000 of them are stuck in garrison duty.

Resorting to levies is pretty much China's only option as a result. It makes sense, too - why wait two months for trained troops to march across the country when you can raise and train the same number of troops locally? There is a reason that the levy system persisted in China until well after the Second World War.

Really? Only 100k? Huh, that the first time I heard that figure as I usually use the 1% army rule for most of my Rp pre 1800. In that case I'll justify the military reform base on the two centuries of war with northern china and the importation of military doctrine from the Middle East during the spread of Islam.

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

I thought Finland already exist as a duchy within Sweden. I think a Novgorod rump state would be more appropriate

Um... no. In our history, we kind of went out of our way to completely destroy anything resembling Russian independence. Finland seems like a much more likely option

Alternatively, what about a Sami or other non-Norse Scandinavian nation?

The Fins really are not all the Norsey, tho. I'd say they are closer to the Sami than Nordic, in fact I think they were considered Ugric or whatever for the longest time. I am pretty sure the idea of Finland as a Nordic nation only arose in more modern times, probably because they wanted to distance themselves from the Russians as much as possible, quite understandable really. So Finland itself should be just fine, also considering the people who largely populated those areas were well Finnish.

And I mean as an NPC, we will need to eventually after all so players can interact with them, and to remove the white from the map.

[New Granadeseret]

Um... no. In our history, we kind of went out of our way to completely destroy anything resembling Russian independence. Finland seems like a much more likely option

Alternatively, what about a Sami or other non-Norse Scandinavian nation?

The Fins really are not all the Norsey, tho. I'd say they are closer to the Sami than Nordic, in fact I think they were considered Ugric or whatever for the longest time. I am pretty sure the idea of Finland as a Nordic nation only arose in more modern times, probably because they wanted to distance themselves from the Russians as much as possible, quite understandable really. So Finland itself should be just fine, also considering the people who largely populated those areas were well Finnish.

And I mean as an NPC, we will need to eventually after all so players can interact with them, and to remove the white from the map.

Scandinavia isn't really my specialty, so I'll defer to somebody who has more knowledge on the subject. I just thought seeing an ethnicity that got the short shaft constantly getting a country of their own might be cool. I suppose it would make sense, considering Sweden mentioned he had Finnish rebels; they could be trying to defect to their mother country, which gives the Poles, and Danes and myself possible points of intervention on either side to earn land and/or political points.

[Denoxin]

Ah, OP. Slight issue. I don't have any real Roleplay samples from this site. I've been on the site before, but under a different nation that's been deleted.

[Kherkov]

Ah, OP. Slight issue. I don't have any real Roleplay samples from this site. I've been on the site before, but under a different nation that's been deleted.

Any samples from other sites?

[Denoxin]

Ah, OP. Slight issue. I don't have any real Roleplay samples from this site. I've been on the site before, but under a different nation that's been deleted.

Any samples from other sites?

There was one from a forum site. Let me see if it's still operational.

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

Scandinavia isn't really my specialty, so I'll defer to somebody who has more knowledge on the subject. I just thought seeing an ethnicity that got the short shaft constantly getting a country of their own might be cool. I suppose it would make sense, considering Sweden mentioned he had Finnish rebels; they could be trying to defect to their mother country, which gives the Poles and myself possible points of intervention on either side to earn land and/or political points.

Quite so. I mean that could be interesting, but the Sammis, I believe, live up in Northern Norway and Sweden and would have had to migrate over to open lands for that to really make sense.

Scandy also is not my strong suit either, but I try and educate myself with Wikipedia for a basic understanding. I'm more of a British Isles person myself.

Also that is a good point, Finnish rebels attempting to defect to an independent Finland could create an interesting situation. Anything that stirs IC activity is always a good thing, as long as there is some realism to it of course.

[Cerrania]

Any samples from other sites?

There was one from a forum site. Let me see if it's still operational.

If it's not operational, I can vouch for this guy. If it's the same person I think it is(he used the exact same name on our other forum), he's an excellent roleplayer.

[Prusslandia]

Could I reserve this area ?

http://postimg.org/image/s9bqb74fp/

[Super-Llamaland]

Tartary and I had plans for that strip of land between us, so I'd appreciate it if we didn't have to invade a user-controlled to get there. Besides, it borders the North Baltic, so obviously it's Swedish clay.