A World Without America II [Invite Only, See Within / OOC ]

[Luziyca]

If he averts ethnic tensions then Uni will force it upon Vak anyways. Either Germany will conquer Austria and divide up the non-German territories, or Austria will appease Germany through concessions until Austria is no longer strong enough to resist Germany.

Yeah, that's godmod. RL Austria actually did pretty well averting ethnic tensions, so it is definitely possible that Vak could avoid big tensions.

Until 1914: if they're still around at that time, the Archduke has to die in Sarajevo. Fixed point, y'know.

[Unicario]

Fine, you know what, nevermind. I hereby declare that nobody can annex anything unless it's RPed out in full. So no magical anschluss of anything. Nada, zip. If I can't take down Austria in an agreement with Vak that we both agreed upon (which would have had him playing a pre-Trianon sized Hungary sans Transylvania), then nobody can. Have dealing with realistic diplomacy and war, everyone. Any partition agreements are hereby disbarred as well -- you must RP it out in full, no "easy way out".

I may be a dick, but I'm not letting anybody get away with hypocrisy.

[United Marxist Nations]

Fine, you know what, nevermind. I hereby declare that nobody can annex anything unless it's RPed out in full. So no magical anschluss of anything. Nada, zip. If I can't take down Austria in an agreement with Vak that we both agreed upon (which would have had him playing a pre-Trianon sized Hungary sans Transylvania), then nobody can. Have dealing with realistic diplomacy and war, everyone. Any partition agreements are hereby disbarred as well -- you must RP it out in full, no "easy way out".

I may be a dick, but I'm not letting anybody get away with hypocrisy.

You would probably have to RP that out anyway. If Vak agrees upon it, then it would be no trouble to RP it out.

[Unicario]

Fine, you know what, nevermind. I hereby declare that nobody can annex anything unless it's RPed out in full. So no magical anschluss of anything. Nada, zip. If I can't take down Austria in an agreement with Vak that we both agreed upon (which would have had him playing a pre-Trianon sized Hungary sans Transylvania), then nobody can. Have dealing with realistic diplomacy and war, everyone. Any partition agreements are hereby disbarred as well -- you must RP it out in full, no "easy way out".

I may be a dick, but I'm not letting anybody get away with hypocrisy.

You would probably have to RP that out anyway. If Vak agrees upon it, then it would be no trouble to RP it out.

That was what I was bloody going to do, it wasn't just going to be "Germany walks into Vienna, game over". It was going to be me cooperating with Vak to RP out a determined scenario. Austria *was* going to fall, inevitably, to Germany. But it wasn't going to be Blitzkrieg. -.-

The plan was to have Austria and Germany clash over who had the right to the HRE -- Germany starts influencing the Princes to move away from Austria, Austria and Germany fight a numer of times, Germany's inevitable swing will break Austrian power down -- they survive in Hungary.

[United Marxist Nations]

Yeah, that's godmod. RL Austria actually did pretty well averting ethnic tensions, so it is definitely possible that Vak could avoid big tensions.

Until 1914: if they're still around at that time, the Archduke has to die in Sarajevo. Fixed point, y'know.

There were problems with Hungary, but the Slavs actually showed little hostility until the February Revolution in Russia.

[Unicario]

Any Russia agitating for Panslavism will cause problems with Austria. @_@

[United Marxist Nations]

You would probably have to RP that out anyway. If Vak agrees upon it, then it would be no trouble to RP it out.

That was what I was bloody going to do, it wasn't just going to be "Germany walks into Vienna, game over". It was going to be me cooperating with Vak to RP out a determined scenario. Austria *was* going to fall, inevitably, to Germany. But it wasn't going to be Blitzkrieg. -.-

The plan was to have Austria and Germany clash over who had the right to the HRE -- Germany starts influencing the Princes to move away from Austria, Austria and Germany fight a numer of times, Germany's inevitable swing will break Austrian power down -- they survive in Hungary.

Ok. The way it was said in the list didn't make clear that it was prior agreed upon. Had that been clarified, I would have had no problem with it - zero. I just came on, saw you & Vak arguing about spheres of influence in Germany (you know, fairly standard stuff ), then I see "[your nation] will be partitions, it is just a matter of when". It was not clear to the outside observer that it was referring to something that both had already agreed on, it looked like one player dictating what will happen to another, without regard to anything else. Now that it has been clarified, I am quite satisfied as to the statement.

[Pimps Inc]

Fine, you know what, nevermind. I hereby declare that nobody can annex anything unless it's RPed out in full. So no magical anschluss of anything. Nada, zip. If I can't take down Austria in an agreement with Vak that we both agreed upon (which would have had him playing a pre-Trianon sized Hungary sans Transylvania), then nobody can. Have dealing with realistic diplomacy and war, everyone. Any partition agreements are hereby disbarred as well -- you must RP it out in full, no "easy way out".

I may be a dick, but I'm not letting anybody get away with hypocrisy.

Can we annex unclaimed land?
For Exmple, the Pacific Northwest, to which I laid claims in 1773 with a expiditionary force?

[Unicario]

That was what I was bloody going to do, it wasn't just going to be "Germany walks into Vienna, game over". It was going to be me cooperating with Vak to RP out a determined scenario. Austria *was* going to fall, inevitably, to Germany. But it wasn't going to be Blitzkrieg. -.-

The plan was to have Austria and Germany clash over who had the right to the HRE -- Germany starts influencing the Princes to move away from Austria, Austria and Germany fight a numer of times, Germany's inevitable swing will break Austrian power down -- they survive in Hungary.

Ok. The way it was said in the list didn't make clear that it was prior agreed upon. Had that been clarified, I would have had no problem with it - zero. I just came on, saw you & Vak arguing about spheres of influence in Germany (you know, fairly standard stuff ), then I see "[your nation] will be partitions, it is just a matter of when". It was not clear to the outside observer that it was referring to something that both had already agreed on, it looked like one player dictating what will happen to another, without regard to anything else. Now that it has been clarified, I am quite satisfied as to the statement.

Alright then.

The context is that Vak relentlessly asked to be Austria; I had in place plans I wanted to happen, so I figured I'd negotiate with him about that.

The terms were as such:
- I annex Czech Republic, Slovenia, Istria, Sudtirol and modern Austria at some future date.
- Bojikami's Cossack state receives Transylvania.
- Vak receives the Kingdom of Hungary as a concession, in it's entirety, as he so chooses to RP it.
- He gains Portugal while conceding me the rights to RP as Brazil and Argentina in one multi-ethnic union.
- The Philippine Islands will, at some future date, be handed over to the Netherlands by Spain.
- Vak will be permitted to utilize female soldiers at his choosing.

This may seem like a pretty serious, plot-changing negotiation, but I made sure it did not step on other players toes in the least -- it may meddle with people's plans some, but I'm doing this by the book, and with the permission of the player. Those terms are not limited to, as I'm not sure what else.

Fine, you know what, nevermind. I hereby declare that nobody can annex anything unless it's RPed out in full. So no magical anschluss of anything. Nada, zip. If I can't take down Austria in an agreement with Vak that we both agreed upon (which would have had him playing a pre-Trianon sized Hungary sans Transylvania), then nobody can. Have dealing with realistic diplomacy and war, everyone. Any partition agreements are hereby disbarred as well -- you must RP it out in full, no "easy way out".

I may be a dick, but I'm not letting anybody get away with hypocrisy.

Can we annex unclaimed land?
For Exmple, the Pacific Northwest, to which I laid claims in 1773 with a expiditionary force?

My previous decree in that post is hereby revoked. Ignore it, please.

But yes, claiming unclaimed territory is fine, but in North America. We can talk about Africa later.

[The Vaktovian Empire]

I agree with all of the following things Uni has said. It's not a problem for me as long as I am able to retain Hungary. And, as me and Uni figured out, I would still have a coastal border in the fact that following those concessions I'd still have Bosnia and part of Croatia connecting me to the sea. But, Luz, I'm afraid Sarajevo and WWI will never happen because Austria will most likely be a folk-tale by then, and Hungary is not going to have the same family line as IRL Austria did in the 20th century.

[United Marxist Nations]

Ok. The way it was said in the list didn't make clear that it was prior agreed upon. Had that been clarified, I would have had no problem with it - zero. I just came on, saw you & Vak arguing about spheres of influence in Germany (you know, fairly standard stuff ), then I see "[your nation] will be partitions, it is just a matter of when". It was not clear to the outside observer that it was referring to something that both had already agreed on, it looked like one player dictating what will happen to another, without regard to anything else. Now that it has been clarified, I am quite satisfied as to the statement.

Alright then.

The context is that Vak relentlessly asked to be Austria; I had in place plans I wanted to happen, so I figured I'd negotiate with him about that.

The terms were as such:
- I annex Czech Republic, Slovenia, Istria, Sudtirol and modern Austria at some future date.
- Bojikami's Cossack state receives Transylvania.
- Vak receives the Kingdom of Hungary as a concession, in it's entirety, as he so chooses to RP it.
- He gains Portugal while conceding me the rights to RP as Brazil and Argentina in one multi-ethnic union.
- The Philippine Islands will, at some future date, be handed over to the Netherlands by Spain.
- Vak will be permitted to utilize female soldiers at his choosing.

This may seem like a pretty serious, plot-changing negotiation, but I made sure it did not step on other players toes in the least -- it may meddle with people's plans some, but I'm doing this by the book, and with the permission of the player.

I kid, I kid, although I do find that concession humorous.

[The Vaktovian Empire]

Alright then.

The context is that Vak relentlessly asked to be Austria; I had in place plans I wanted to happen, so I figured I'd negotiate with him about that.

The terms were as such:
- I annex Czech Republic, Slovenia, Istria, Sudtirol and modern Austria at some future date.
- Bojikami's Cossack state receives Transylvania.
- Vak receives the Kingdom of Hungary as a concession, in it's entirety, as he so chooses to RP it.
- He gains Portugal while conceding me the rights to RP as Brazil and Argentina in one multi-ethnic union.
- The Philippine Islands will, at some future date, be handed over to the Netherlands by Spain.
- Vak will be permitted to utilize female soldiers at his choosing.

This may seem like a pretty serious, plot-changing negotiation, but I made sure it did not step on other players toes in the least -- it may meddle with people's plans some, but I'm doing this by the book, and with the permission of the player.

I kid, I kid, although I do find that concession humorous.

Which concession?

[United Marxist Nations]

I kid, I kid, although I do find that concession humorous.

Which concession?

The one in giant font.

[Unicario]

So the amount of territory I lose is basically all based on how I treat Prussia and how much blood is spilled or fighting takes place? Or I still will lose everything including Vienna eventually regardless? And when we're talking about the H.R.E we're basically referencing the sovereign territory of Austria, Prussia, but also all of the German states in the West correct? Because I know all my sovereign territories would remain mine at least now regardless of Catherine's declaration.

Let's all be totally honest, it really doesn't matter what you do. ATL Austria 1775 is essentially OTL 1933 Czechoslovakia; you will not win against Germany, through appeasement or through combat. There is no way for you to win this, Vak. Warfare ends you quickly, diplomacy ends you slowly. Both options end with you losing. That's why of the Quendi left. If you're lucky, then the Hapsburgs will keep Hungary in the same way that Germany created a puppet state in Slovakia, but that's probably the most you'll accomplish.

As a final note, this entire post is full of bullshit. Thank you.

[Ruridova]

Let's all be totally honest, it really doesn't matter what you do. ATL Austria 1775 is essentially OTL 1933 Czechoslovakia; you will not win against Germany, through appeasement or through combat. There is no way for you to win this, Vak. Warfare ends you quickly, diplomacy ends you slowly. Both options end with you losing. That's why of the Quendi left. If you're lucky, then the Hapsburgs will keep Hungary in the same way that Germany created a puppet state in Slovakia, but that's probably the most you'll accomplish.

As a final note, this entire post is full of bullshit. Thank you.

Well I was going to recant it now that it's obvious Vak has agreed to your plans, not been ordered to obey, but you've made me rather less willing to do so. And fair parts of it are true. Austria's demise is inevitable, Germany will win, Vak is indeed keeping Hungary but losing most of that empire, and that is why otQ said he left.

[United Marxist Nations]

Well, with that, I no longer have much strategic interest in backing Austria, so it is now kind of inevitable that Russia will continue to back Germany/Prussia in Central Europe.

[Unicario]

As a final note, this entire post is full of bullshit. Thank you.

Well I was going to recant it now that it's obvious Vak has agreed to your plans, not been ordered to obey, but you've made me rather less willing to do so. And fair parts of it are true. Austria's demise is inevitable, Germany will win, Vak is indeed keeping Hungary but losing most of that empire, and that is why otQ said he left.

Recant it or don't, you said what you said. It is inevitable. When Quendi was Austria, I was more than willing to abandon my hopes on bringing Austria to heel, and focus on Kleindeutschland. But he left. I'm not going to cry about that.

Well, with that, I no longer have much strategic interest in backing Austria, so it is now kind of inevitable that Russia will continue to back Germany/Prussia in Central Europe.

I appreciate it, even if it does kind of feel like I held a collective gun to the collective head of the RP, but what's done is done.

[The Vaktovian Empire]

Bumpty Bump! I'll get to posting for Austria.

[Ruridova]

Official Sicilio-Greek response: that of two teenage males thinking themselves incredibly witty.

[Ruridova]

Also let's talk about the fact that the present ages of European monarchs are:

Louis XV, France: 65
Maria Theresia, Austria: 58
Abdulhamid, Ottomans: 50
Yekaterina II, Russia: 46
George III, Great Britain: 37
Joseph II, Holy Romans: 34
Alexandros I, Greece: 18
Katharina, Germany: 16
Luigi, Two Sicilies: 12

[Pimps Inc]

I understand that US independence will not be allowed, but Boji, will they be allowed to win some battles or will the rebellion be swiftly crushed?

[Bojikami]

I understand that US independence will not be allowed, but Boji, will they be allowed to win some battles or will the rebellion be swiftly crushed?

There will be initial victories, but then things will turn around and the revolution will fail where it began.

[The Vaktovian Empire]

Also let's talk about the fact that the present ages of European monarchs are:

Louis XV, France: 65
Maria Theresia, Austria: 58
Abdulhamid, Ottomans: 50
Yekaterina II, Russia: 46
George III, Great Britain: 37
Joseph II, Holy Romans: 34
Alexandros I, Greece: 18
Katharina, Germany: 16
Luigi, Two Sicilies: 12

I thought of making a few lists as well as our info boxes. These lists would include: Most successful Army in order, Most successful Navy (Maybe the word successful is the wrong word, perhaps, best trained, most effective would be better), then Largest Army (In terms of numbers), Largest Navy (Again in terms of numbers). And then we could do things such as best diplomatically savvy nation. Other such things.

[Unicario]

Also let's talk about the fact that the present ages of European monarchs are:

Louis XV, France: 65
Maria Theresia, Austria: 58
Abdulhamid, Ottomans: 50
Yekaterina II, Russia: 46
George III, Great Britain: 37
Joseph II, Holy Romans: 34
Alexandros I, Greece: 18
Katharina, Germany: 16
Luigi, Two Sicilies: 12

Louis XV died during the time jump, Louis XVI (OTL's Louis XVIII) is 20.

[Unicario]

Official Sicilio-Greek response: that of two teenage males thinking themselves incredibly witty.

I'll admit it made me laugh. Pffft.