Westeros: Rise of a King (Dead)

[The Imperial Republica]

I frikin hate hiding behind the shadows and sending spies here and there. Can we just start cracking skulls already? Please? Not really something you here from a seventy-some year old man, but still...beats spying.

[Of the Quendi]

Aurinsula: Hope my last post wasn't too godmoddy but you mentioned that Sansa owned a lot of property in King's Landing so I assumed that she could be contacted discreetly through them. If it wasn't clear the wolf's head was the one Jeor Mormont placed on Longclaw when he gifted it to Jon Snow so presumably Sansa would know it and know that the sword is now in Aemon's hands.

Assuming you don't want to do a bunch of IC posts about Sansa's middlemen arranging a meeting with my ambassador you have my permission to RP them to any time and place where a private meeting can take place.

Assuming of course you don't hand them over to the Tyrell's or Aerion.

Mordonin Jaerator, Meereen

- stuff -

I will respond to this later today.

[Of the Quendi]

Aurinsula: Hope my last post wasn't too godmoddy but you mentioned that Sansa owned a lot of property in King's Landing so I assumed that she could be contacted discreetly through them. If it wasn't clear the wolf's head was the one Jeor Mormont placed on Longclaw when he gifted it to Jon Snow so presumably Sansa would know it and know that the sword is now in Aemon's hands.

Assuming you don't want to do a bunch of IC posts about Sansa's middlemen arranging a meeting with my ambassador you have my permission to RP them to any time and place where a private meeting can take place.

Assuming of course you don't hand them over to the Tyrell's or Aerion.

EDIT: Arana: And I hope it wasn't godmodding of me to RP controlling a Velaryon character. The character isn't a lord of Driftmark but only the younger brother of Monterys Velaryon. Since Monterys's father died fighting a Lannister-Tyrell alliance and since one of his relations is the senior wife of Aemon it wouldn't seem unlikely that parts of the family had leanings towards Aemon.

Mordonin Jaerator, Meereen

- stuff -

I will respond to this later today.

EDIT:

Hey guys, just got back. I didn't post because I was waiting on a reply and also I don't think that my chars are really doing much. I'll post again tomorrow though.

If you want I can give your Ghiscari characters "jobs" to do so to speak.

[Aurinsula]

Aurinsula: Hope my last post wasn't too godmoddy but you mentioned that Sansa owned a lot of property in King's Landing so I assumed that she could be contacted discreetly through them. If it wasn't clear the wolf's head was the one Jeor Mormont placed on Longclaw when he gifted it to Jon Snow so presumably Sansa would know it and know that the sword is now in Aemon's hands.

Assuming you don't want to do a bunch of IC posts about Sansa's middlemen arranging a meeting with my ambassador you have my permission to RP them to any time and place where a private meeting can take place.

Assuming of course you don't hand them over to the Tyrell's or Aerion.

Mordonin Jaerator, Meereen

- stuff -

I will respond to this later today.

That whole thing pleases me just fine. The Arryns have neither sufficient charisma to inspire great loyalty or sufficient brutality to inspire great fear, so that sounds pretty reasonable. (Lest somebody try and spring a trap - you have people that can be bribed, too. Everyone does. No cordon is fool-proof.)

[Mnar Secundus]

Everyone, I'm sorry for not posting: I've found myself unexpectedly deprived of any Internet access. I knew I was going to a place where I wouldn't get much of it, so I had bought that 3G gadget thingy, but it is, of course, not working, as should not surprise me. I've borrowed a neighbor's Wi-Fi for a short moment here, but I probably won't be allowed to do it again, so don't expect me to post before the 2nd or 3rd of January at best. I delegate control over my character to either Aemon or the OP, if that's fine.
Sorry again for the complication; I hope I'll be allowed to join the RP back when I can.

[Lunas Legion]

I'll get a post up of the Volantine Fleet leaving for it's assault on Lys; the Combined Fleet should be departing at the same time, but I'll leave whether Pentos/Myr/Lorath decide to go ahead with the plan or not up to the OP.

[New Granadeseret]

-snip-

1. Considering a only a few lords could have actively risen for Aemon (Considering he was unable to carry the war back to Westros), the category of those who have something to fear includes essentially every house in Westros. Abandoned to the Tyrells, those loyal houses that DID rise for him would have been beaten back down and, if not having had their lands given away entirely, at least would had to see a change in the head of house to somebody who was less of an overt firebrand. Anything less would essentially a continuation of the war, which the OP already establishes as long since over.

2. The facts that Aerion is considered the rightful king, Aemon is older than Aerion (and male), and Westros's inheritance laws are strictly male primogeniture outside of Dorne means Aemon mus be removed from the line of succession. If not, Aerion has no claim to the throne while is elder brother is still alive, and Aemon ought to be sitting on the Iron Throne right now. Without some legal reason being concoted, the Tyrells hold would be far to fragile to stand, being more of an occupation than a state-sanctified coup. It may not be directly stated, but in order for what is to make any sense he can't be legally entitled to the family birthrate his younger brother is already holding.

Let's take the hypothetical scenario proposed earlier: Aemon flies into King's Landing and walks into the Red Keep to present Aerion his wedding present. Loras, trying to find some way to use this oppritunity, pose in front of the whole court. "Do you believe you are the rightful king of Westros?" If he wasen't removed from inheiritance by some kind of legality or declaration (no matter how flimsy or strong it may be), the answer is obvious.

" My father, Jon Targaryen, was King before me, and I am his eldest son. That is how lands have passed in our kingdom since the time of the First Men. I still draw breath, and have done nothing to prove me unworthy of my father's titles: how could any man besides myself be the rightful King, Lord Tyrell? This pageantry is a great insult to all our customs, and every lord here know it."

[Of the Quendi]

Everyone, I'm sorry for not posting: I've found myself unexpectedly deprived of any Internet access. I knew I was going to a place where I wouldn't get much of it, so I had bought that 3G gadget thingy, but it is, of course, not working, as should not surprise me. I've borrowed a neighbor's Wi-Fi for a short moment here, but I probably won't be allowed to do it again, so don't expect me to post before the 2nd or 3rd of January at best. I delegate control over my character to either Aemon or the OP, if that's fine.
Sorry again for the complication; I hope I'll be allowed to join the RP back when I can.

NP, good to hear from you, things can get a bit lonely in the east. I don't think anyone need to control your character for you, you can just start playing him the 2nd or the 3rd.

I'll get a post up of the Volantine Fleet leaving for it's assault on Lys; the Combined Fleet should be departing at the same time, but I'll leave whether Pentos/Myr/Lorath decide to go ahead with the plan or not up to the OP.

No coordination with the Empire then? Its a pity, Aemon is eager to take Cithien down a notch and in the process curry favor with Dorne, the Arbor, Oldtown, Lannisport and other maritime or mercantile places in Westeros that may oppose having a pirate block the Narrow Sea.

1. Considering a only a few lords could have actively risen for Aemon (Considering he was unable to carry the war back to Westros), the category of those who have something to fear includes essentially every house in Westros. Abandoned to the Tyrells, those loyal houses that DID rise for him would have been beaten back down and, if not having had their lands given away entirely, at least would had to see a change in the head of house to somebody who was less of an overt firebrand. Anything less would essentially a continuation of the war, which the OP already establishes as long since over.

2. The facts that Aerion is considered the rightful king, Aemon is older than Aerion (and male), and Westros's inheritance laws are strictly male primogeniture outside of Dorne means Aemon mus be removed from the line of succession. If not, Aerion has no claim to the throne while is elder brother is still alive, and Aemon ought to be sitting on the Iron Throne right now. Without some legal reason being concoted, the Tyrells hold would be far to fragile to stand, being more of an occupation than a state-sanctified coup. It may not be directly stated, but in order for what is to make any sense he can't be legally entitled to the family birthrate his younger brother is already holding.

1. Sure most lords could potential fear Aemon's wrath. But in reality a large portion wouldn't have to. Even if a house didn't fight for Aemon the first time around if it rise for him later they would have nothing to fear. That presumably is why Lady Sansa seems to be on Team Aemon. She realizes that her failure to fight the first time won't matter if she fight the second time. As for what happened to those houses that did rise I find no indication in the OP (that says the war ended inconclusively) to suggest that pro-Targaryen purges took place after or during the war. Given that lords on the loosing side was allowed to keep their titles and lands in every single war ever fought in Westeros I don't see why it shouldn't be the case in this one.

2. Plenty of people don't consider Aerion the rightful king though. And while the Seven Kingdoms generally practice primogeniture there are exceptions to primogeniture. If the succession is disputed or unclear the Seven Kingdoms have alternate methods by which to select its ruler. A great council for example. The Tyrell's could have called one, inviting only Lannister and Tyrell allied houses, to elect Aerion over Aemon, whose absence from Westeros would probably be plenty cause for a council. That would not dispossess him from the succession, and unless I see the OP calling Aemon banished or removed from the law of succession I will assume that he isn't.

[Lunas Legion]

I'll get a post up of the Volantine Fleet leaving for it's assault on Lys; the Combined Fleet should be departing at the same time, but I'll leave whether Pentos/Myr/Lorath decide to go ahead with the plan or not up to the OP.

No coordination with the Empire then? Its a pity, Aemon is eager to take Cithien down a notch and in the process curry favor with Dorne, the Arbor, Oldtown, Lannisport and other maritime or mercantile places in Westeros that may oppose having a pirate block the Narrow Sea.

Zereno believes he can take down Cithien by himself (well, Volantis and the League), which is entirely possible, but he believes his chances are much more in his favour than they actually are. He also doesn't know Cithien's exact plans beyond vague whisperings of a continued invasion of Essos, so he's rushing to launch a pre-emptive attack to destroy Cithien or at least eliminate the threat of an assault against the League for a while.

[New Granadeseret]

1. Sure most lords could potential fear Aemon's wrath. But in reality a large portion wouldn't have to. Even if a house didn't fight for Aemon the first time around if it rise for him later they would have nothing to fear. That presumably is why Lady Sansa seems to be on Team Aemon. She realizes that her failure to fight the first time won't matter if she fight the second time. As for what happened to those houses that did rise I find no indication in the OP (that says the war ended inconclusively) to suggest that pro-Targaryen purges took place after or during the war. Given that lords on the loosing side was allowed to keep their titles and lands in every single war ever fought in Westeros I don't see why it shouldn't be the case in this one.

2. Plenty of people don't consider Aerion the rightful king though. And while the Seven Kingdoms generally practice primogeniture there are exceptions to primogeniture. If the succession is disputed or unclear the Seven Kingdoms have alternate methods by which to select its ruler. A great council for example. The Tyrell's could have called one, inviting only Lannister and Tyrell allied houses, to elect Aerion over Aemon, whose absence from Westeros would probably be plenty cause for a council. That would not dispossess him from the succession, and unless I see the OP calling Aemon banished or removed from the law of succession I will assume that he isn't.

1. Well, if you recall Robert's Rebellion many of the minor opposing houses, though not crushes, were hamstrung somewhat after the war. The Riverlands, in particular, saw Loyalist holdings cut down to size. I'd imagine Stannis, with his stickling nature of punishing wrongdoers (even when they save his life), would have probably done something similar following The War of the Five Kings. I think its better left to Nova do decide what exactly the Tyrells did, but I'd imagine they'd prefer punishing rebellious lords to reconciling with them, since the threat of a new civil war is always waiting across the sea. Not that they'd be dissolved completely of course (unless they completely refused to kneel), but they'd be given a slap on the wrist; property disputes being settled in Aerion supporter's favor, more notable leaders of the revolt forced to retire, that sort of thing.

2. Its not what people think, exactly: Even if Westros is more a government by men than by laws, there are certain rules and legal fictions that need to be sustained, if only since they give legitimacy. The great council does seem like a good idea... but if they went through all the trouble, why would they stop at merely making Aerion the King? Certainly they know that if Aerion were to die before he pops out a kid of anything (And a decade is a long enough time that its a real risk) that would mean a very unhappy Aemon is the last legal heir to the Targaryen name. The successon would be undisputed, so they can't pull any tricks his time and would have to stage an official revolt; one that would have no grounding and result in their defeat.

It simply seems silly for them to give Aemon a chance to claim the throne at all, based on what they know he'd do to them if he ever returned. Even if they have to cobble together some fiction to explain why he doesn't have it, that's something. The legitimacy of that legal excuse can be up for debate, but the Tyrell would at least have the decency to construct an argument for if the question ever comes up.

(Note, I'm not nessicerly in favor of the Tyrells. Rather, I'm trying to play the role of a lawyer, and support a situation in which the Tyrells actually have a legal leg to stand on when it comes to protecting their interests. Not an ironclad case, mind you, but one in which Aemon woulden't have an ironclad case either, lest fun, fun major war be undercut.)

[Nuridia]

Hey guys, just got back. I didn't post because I was waiting on a reply and also I don't think that my chars are really doing much. I'll post again tomorrow though.

If you want I can give your Ghiscari characters "jobs" to do so to speak.

What did you have in mind?

[Aurinsula]

In circumstances like this, I find it useful to return to video games and think about the situation as if it had played out in CK2.

1) After the death of Robert, Stannis successfully presses his claim against Tommen. Due to a special event, Tommen's claim is wiped, leaving Stannis as the only man standing with a claim to the Iron Throne (except for Danaerys.)

2) Stannis then legitimizes Jon Snow as Jon Targaeryen, making him - if you go solidly up the family tree - the only person with a valid claim to the throne (since the Baratheon claim is based at least partially on their relationship to the Targaeryens).

3) Stannis then dies. Jon, as his heir to the Iron Throne, becomes King. The Iron Throne is agnatic primogeniture.

4) Danaerys comes into the scene, as Queen of Mereen and other titles. She marries Jon Snow, and the fruit of their union will have a claim to the Iron Throne. Danaerys's titles... well, she more-or-less created them; we'll call it Muslim-style Absolute Open.

5) Mace Tyrell allegedly forms a plot to assassinate Jon and Dany. (It's a historical secret as to whether or not he actually did such a thing, but he has a motive). King Jon I discovers the plot (or fabricates it), and imprisons and executes Mace Tyrell, one of his senior vassals. This gives Jon a -30 Tyranny penalty, which, along with his existing penalty to diplomacy as a legitimized bastard, makes him pretty unpopular.

6) In response to this, Willas Tyrell forms a faction for... well, revenge, clearly, but it's not sure what their ultimate goal is at the time. It is immediately supported by the Westerlands, by the Vale, and (I think?) by the Stormlands, and raises up. The Tyrell forces occupy King's Landing, drag out Jon and Danaerys, and execute them. Aemon and Viserys had, judiciously, been in the overseas possessions, but Aerion falls into Willas's hands. He then (and I know you can't do this in the game) switches his CB to Aerion for King. One-by-one, the remaining Westerosi vassals surrender, and then the war is all over.

7) Aemon is defeated, and loses the Empire of the Iron Throne. He retains his titles in the East, however, and expands on them quickly. He also retains his claim to the Iron Throne, and is still (lawfully) Aerion's heir, as he is also Viserys's.

I suppose that pretty much wraps it up, from a game perspective. The material fact is that Aerion is on the Iron Throne, and has been coronated by the High Septon, and Aemon physically isn't here. Since Aerion theoretically could be the King, it's not quite so bad.

Also, there's a great deal to be said for the fact that Aerion is definitively Westerosi, and is ruling as a Westerosi King - and Aemon's cultural politics and allegiances are in question. From what little we know about Aemon's empire, we have no strong evidence that it is organized similarly to Westeros, and thus fears about the traditional rights and privileges of the nobility are not out-of-bounds. If the Tyrells need something to say, they can say that.

[New Granadeseret]

In circumstances like this, I find it useful to return to video games and think about the situation as if it had played out in CK2.

1) After the death of Robert, Stannis successfully presses his claim against Tommen. Due to a special event, Tommen's claim is wiped, leaving Stannis as the only man standing with a claim to the Iron Throne (except for Danaerys.)

2) Stannis then legitimizes Jon Snow as Jon Targaeryen, making him - if you go solidly up the family tree - the only person with a valid claim to the throne (since the Baratheon claim is based at least partially on their relationship to the Targaeryens).

3) Stannis then dies. Jon, as his heir to the Iron Throne, becomes King. The Iron Throne is agnatic primogeniture.

4) Danaerys comes into the scene, as Queen of Mereen and other titles. She marries Jon Snow, and the fruit of their union will have a claim to the Iron Throne. Danaerys's titles... well, she more-or-less created them; we'll call it Muslim-style Absolute Open.

5) Mace Tyrell allegedly forms a plot to assassinate Jon and Dany. (It's a historical secret as to whether or not he actually did such a thing, but he has a motive). King Jon I discovers the plot (or fabricates it), and imprisons and executes Mace Tyrell, one of his senior vassals. This gives Jon a -30 Tyranny penalty, which, along with his existing penalty to diplomacy as a legitimized bastard, makes him pretty unpopular.

6) In response to this, Willas Tyrell forms a faction for... well, revenge, clearly, but it's not sure what their ultimate goal is at the time. It is immediately supported by the Westerlands, by the Vale, and (I think?) by the Stormlands, and raises up. The Tyrell forces occupy King's Landing, drag out Jon and Danaerys, and execute them. Aemon and Viserys had, judiciously, been in the overseas possessions, but Aerion falls into Willas's hands. He then (and I know you can't do this in the game) switches his CB to Aerion for King. One-by-one, the remaining Westerosi vassals surrender, and then the war is all over.

7) Aemon is defeated, and loses the Empire of the Iron Throne. He retains his titles in the East, however, and expands on them quickly. He also retains his claim to the Iron Throne, and is still (lawfully) Aerion's heir, as he is also Viserys's.


I suppose that pretty much wraps it up, from a game perspective. The material fact is that Aerion is on the Iron Throne, and has been coronated by the High Septon, and Aemon physically isn't here. Since Aerion theoretically could be the King, it's not quite so bad.

Also, there's a great deal to be said for the fact that Aerion is definitively Westerosi, and is ruling as a Westerosi King - and Aemon's cultural politics and allegiances are in question. From what little we know about Aemon's empire, we have no strong evidence that it is organized similarly to Westeros, and thus fears about the traditional rights and privileges of the nobility are not out-of-bounds. If the Tyrells need something to say, they can say that.

The faction would likely be something along the lines of a War Against the Tyranny, with the causus belli of Dispose Liege. Aerion, being prefer the most, was placed on the throne. For the Stormlands its... complicated. The King of the Stormlands (Donnel, in Regency for his son) remained neutral, but some of his vassals (in their role as indirect vassals of The Iron Throne) joined the faction and fought despite that.

And... strictly speaking Shireen would have a weak claim, inheritable claim (As a child of the titleholder at Stannis's death, though not relevant due to gender laws), which Steffon now holds and COULD be pressed if things got bad enough (Though he'd never do it on his own behalf)

But the issue is of Aemon DOES physically arrive. That would trigger as succession crisis and create a faction of Aemon for King.

[Arana]

In circumstances like this, I find it useful to return to video games and think about the situation as if it had played out in CK2.

1) After the death of Robert, Stannis successfully presses his claim against Tommen. Due to a special event, Tommen's claim is wiped, leaving Stannis as the only man standing with a claim to the Iron Throne (except for Danaerys.)

2) Stannis then legitimizes Jon Snow as Jon Targaeryen, making him - if you go solidly up the family tree - the only person with a valid claim to the throne (since the Baratheon claim is based at least partially on their relationship to the Targaeryens).

3) Stannis then dies. Jon, as his heir to the Iron Throne, becomes King. The Iron Throne is agnatic primogeniture.

4) Danaerys comes into the scene, as Queen of Mereen and other titles. She marries Jon Snow, and the fruit of their union will have a claim to the Iron Throne. Danaerys's titles... well, she more-or-less created them; we'll call it Muslim-style Absolute Open.

5) Mace Tyrell allegedly forms a plot to assassinate Jon and Dany. (It's a historical secret as to whether or not he actually did such a thing, but he has a motive). King Jon I discovers the plot (or fabricates it), and imprisons and executes Mace Tyrell, one of his senior vassals. This gives Jon a -30 Tyranny penalty, which, along with his existing penalty to diplomacy as a legitimized bastard, makes him pretty unpopular.

6) In response to this, Willas Tyrell forms a faction for... well, revenge, clearly, but it's not sure what their ultimate goal is at the time. It is immediately supported by the Westerlands, by the Vale, and (I think?) by the Stormlands, and raises up. The Tyrell forces occupy King's Landing, drag out Jon and Danaerys, and execute them. Aemon and Viserys had, judiciously, been in the overseas possessions, but Aerion falls into Willas's hands. He then (and I know you can't do this in the game) switches his CB to Aerion for King. One-by-one, the remaining Westerosi vassals surrender, and then the war is all over.

7) Aemon is defeated, and loses the Empire of the Iron Throne. He retains his titles in the East, however, and expands on them quickly. He also retains his claim to the Iron Throne, and is still (lawfully) Aerion's heir, as he is also Viserys's.


I suppose that pretty much wraps it up, from a game perspective. The material fact is that Aerion is on the Iron Throne, and has been coronated by the High Septon, and Aemon physically isn't here. Since Aerion theoretically could be the King, it's not quite so bad.

Also, there's a great deal to be said for the fact that Aerion is definitively Westerosi, and is ruling as a Westerosi King - and Aemon's cultural politics and allegiances are in question. From what little we know about Aemon's empire, we have no strong evidence that it is organized similarly to Westeros, and thus fears about the traditional rights and privileges of the nobility are not out-of-bounds. If the Tyrells need something to say, they can say that.

The faction would likely be something along the lines of a War Against the Tyranny, with the causus belli of Dispose Liege. Aerion, being prefer the most, was placed on the throne. For the Stormlands its... complicated. The King of the Stormlands (Donnel, in Regency for his son) remained neutral, but some of his vassals (in their role as indirect vassals of The Iron Throne) joined the faction and fought despite that.

And... strictly speaking Shireen would have a weak claim, inheritable claim (As a child of the titleholder at Stannis's death, though not relevant due to gender laws), which Steffon now holds and COULD be pressed if things got bad enough (Though he'd never do it on his own behalf)

But the issue is of Aemon DOES physically arrive. That would trigger as succession crisis and create a faction of Aemon for King.

The fact that Steffon had a claim somehow didn't register with me... if Aerion, Aemon, Viserys, and Desirhae were to all die or go missing, Steffon would have the best claim.

[New Granadeseret]

If I may, the line of succession for the Iron Throne would go something like this...

1.Aerion Targaryen (Currently holding the title)
2.Aemon Tagaryen (Strong Claim Legitimate child of King Jon I and eldest brother to Aerion)
3. Viserys (Weak claim, Strong if he's legitimized; he's the son of Queen Daenerys, and Jon being a bastard himself helps sustain the idea a bastard can take the throne)
4. Deirhae ('s Husband as a Consort-King, Weak claim: She's a female, and so can't take the throne herself, but a husband could hold it on her behalf)
5. Steffon (Weak Claim: Grandson of King Stannis I, and so has a claim if the Tagaryen male line were to go extinct.)

If they were all to die/go missing, you'd get to the point where you're going far too many generations of the family tree for claims to be distinguishable, and it could be argued that a new heir to the Iron Throne would have to be decided through an elective succession or civil war.

[Legatia]

Is my app on hold or something?

[Of the Quendi]

Zereno believes he can take down Cithien by himself (well, Volantis and the League), which is entirely possible, but he believes his chances are much more in his favour than they actually are. He also doesn't know Cithien's exact plans beyond vague whisperings of a continued invasion of Essos, so he's rushing to launch a pre-emptive attack to destroy Cithien or at least eliminate the threat of an assault against the League for a while.

Really? Doesn't he think his attack is futile? I am certain I read that in your last post. Well good luck to Volantis and co. then. If it goes really badly for the First Daughter of Valyria the Last Son may take her for his concubine.

1. Well, if you recall Robert's Rebellion many of the minor opposing houses, though not crushes, were hamstrung somewhat after the war. The Riverlands, in particular, saw Loyalist holdings cut down to size. I'd imagine Stannis, with his stickling nature of punishing wrongdoers (even when they save his life), would have probably done something similar following The War of the Five Kings. I think its better left to Nova do decide what exactly the Tyrells did, but I'd imagine they'd prefer punishing rebellious lords to reconciling with them, since the threat of a new civil war is always waiting across the sea. Not that they'd be dissolved completely of course (unless they completely refused to kneel), but they'd be given a slap on the wrist; property disputes being settled in Aerion supporter's favor, more notable leaders of the revolt forced to retire, that sort of thing.

2. Its not what people think, exactly: Even if Westros is more a government by men than by laws, there are certain rules and legal fictions that need to be sustained, if only since they give legitimacy. The great council does seem like a good idea... but if they went through all the trouble, why would they stop at merely making Aerion the King? Certainly they know that if Aerion were to die before he pops out a kid of anything (And a decade is a long enough time that its a real risk) that would mean a very unhappy Aemon is the last legal heir to the Targaryen name. The successon would be undisputed, so they can't pull any tricks his time and would have to stage an official revolt; one that would have no grounding and result in their defeat.

It simply seems silly for them to give Aemon a chance to claim the throne at all, based on what they know he'd do to them if he ever returned. Even if they have to cobble together some fiction to explain why he doesn't have it, that's something. The legitimacy of that legal excuse can be up for debate, but the Tyrell would at least have the decency to construct an argument for if the question ever comes up.

(Note, I'm not nessicerly in favor of the Tyrells. Rather, I'm trying to play the role of a lawyer, and support a situation in which the Tyrells actually have a legal leg to stand on when it comes to protecting their interests. Not an ironclad case, mind you, but one in which Aemon woulden't have an ironclad case either, lest fun, fun major war be undercut.)

1. I don't disagree. But the vast majority of Targaryen aligned houses (including all the major ones) was at best lightly punished.

2. I am not sure I agree it would be wise to try to remove Aerion from the succession. Most houses probably didn't support the Tyrell coup. The Stark-Tully-Arryn alliance presumably opposed it due to their close ties to King Jon. House Martell probably opposed it because the Tyrell's (and Lannister's) supported it, and obviously Aemon. By not removing Aemon from the succession the Tyrell's would allow for a theoretical (and in the early years of an infant Aerion's reign highly likely) chance of restoring Aemon to the throne giving those houses, and Aemon himself less reasons to try to restore Aemon by force. By removing Aemon from the succession these houses would need to revolt to restore him. The only advantage of removing Aemon would be that if Aerion dies he doesn't become king. But if Aerion dies the Tyrell's would be fucked and almost certainly have to fight a war anyway since they would have no one to place on the throne.

Out of interest on whose side is House Swann?

What did you have in mind?

Not sure. But if you are bored I am sure between us we can invent something for you to do. We can put Desirhae in charge of a legion or something (as a sinecure appointment, she is too young to be a legate).

4. Deirhae ('s Husband as a Consort-King, Weak claim: She's a female, and so can't take the throne herself, but a husband could hold it on her behalf)

That is incorrect. Daenerys has a claim to the throne in her own right not for a future husband and this claim is taken serious enough for Robert to send assassins after her. The idea of a woman as king may be unpopular and not widely accepted but she could inherit and would probably inherit before an illegitimate bastard Viserys.

[Nuridia]

Zereno believes he can take down Cithien by himself (well, Volantis and the League), which is entirely possible, but he believes his chances are much more in his favour than they actually are. He also doesn't know Cithien's exact plans beyond vague whisperings of a continued invasion of Essos, so he's rushing to launch a pre-emptive attack to destroy Cithien or at least eliminate the threat of an assault against the League for a while.

Really? Doesn't he think his attack is futile? I am certain I read that in your last post. Well good luck to Volantis and co. then. If it goes really badly for the First Daughter of Valyria the Last Son may take her for his concubine.

Wait, what?

[Arana]

Why does everyone seem to think Viserys is illigetimate?

[Of the Quendi]

Wait, what?

Very poetic no?

Why does everyone seem to think Viserys is illigetimate?

... Because he is. He is the son of Daenerys Targaryen and a man she was not lawfully wed to; hence he is a bastard.

[Arana]

Wait, what?

Very poetic no?

Why does everyone seem to think Viserys is illigetimate?

... Because he is. He is the son of Daenerys Targaryen and a man she was not lawfully wed to; hence he is a bastard.

A legitimized bastard. Hence the name Viserys Targaryen rather than Viserys Waters.

[Nuridia]

Wait, what?

Very poetic no?

It is, but that's not the point. Desirhae would probably run away or commit suicide rather than be a concubine.

[Arana]

Very poetic no?

It is, but that's not the point. Desirhae would probably run away or commit suicide rather than be a concubine.

I think you're taking it too literally... the First Daughter of Valyria is likely Volantis, and the Last Son possibly Aemon or his empire.

[Nuridia]

You're probably right. I'm so confused, I haven't really had an opportunity to do much with her you know so there's the confusion and I don't understand riddles well. When she gets an imperial job maybe it won't be so stagnant.

[Tomia]

It is, but that's not the point. Desirhae would probably run away or commit suicide rather than be a concubine.

I think you're taking it too literally... the First Daughter of Valyria is likely Volantis, and the Last Son possibly Aemon or his empire.

That probably makes sense to me.