Westeros: Rise of a King (Dead)

[Alderann]

Would you say the Tyrells and Lannisters still have an alliance?

[New Granadeseret]

I'd say so, yeah.

But Loras has so much to do! Lol, there's Greyjoy and the Hightowers and late night sex and it's just a mess, though the latter two . . . nah, I'll leave it there.

Even the Greyjoys must sleep, and if the Hightowers road into town by land the whole way they must be exhausted. As for late night sex... with whom, exactly?

[Toronina]

Goddamn that pun was good

[Novae Vitae]

And he smiles, which is perhaps his deadliest weapon of all those traits.

A smile, if used properly, cuts deeper than a sword. It it the most deadly of weapons a lord can possess.

Some wars are won with swords and steel, others with quills and ravens--but most with smiles and promises.

And--because now I'm curious on the matter--Loras is much more sociable than Tywin, but not as ruthless--in public, at least. In private, I would think he would go as far as Tywin would have to crush his opponents. Perhaps further. In regards to intellect, I'd say that they're about equal, though Tywin understands logistics much better than Loras, and Loras understands people much better than Tywin.

What really separates them is that Tywin was respected and feared. Loras is (for the most part) loved. Quite literally, and by a large number of the smallfolk.

Would you say the Tyrells and Lannisters still have an alliance?

Most probably, yes.

But Loras has so much to do! Lol, there's Greyjoy and the Hightowers and late night sex and it's just a mess, though the latter two . . . nah, I'll leave it there.

Even the Greyjoys must sleep, and if the Hightowers road into town by land the whole way they must be exhausted. As for late night sex... with whom, exactly?

I was under the impression it was around three o'clock or thereabouts. And everyone. Literally everyone. No, not everyone. Everything. Everything.

Lol, you'll see. *dramatic music plays*

[New Granadeseret]

... Oh R'hllor... well, in that case Lassa's life might be in danger if a marriage ever did occur, due to the sheer number of pissed off ladies.

[Novae Vitae]

... Oh R'hllor... well, in that case Lassa's life might be in danger if a marriage ever did occur, due to the sheer number of pissed off ladies.

We were talking about ladies?

[New Granadeseret]

... Oh R'hllor... well, in that case Lassa's life might be in danger if a marriage ever did occur, due to the sheer number of pissed off ladies.

We were talking about ladies?

Than it would be even worse if we're including pissed off gentlemen, and other entities that may or may not be allowed to be discussed in this particular manner on this forum.

Just know if you start courting Lassa and Steffon ever catches wind of it... trust comes tumbling down fast and, trained prejudices kicking in, will likely persue vengeance. And they teach you how to produce quite a number of things in the Alchemists Guild...

[Asyir]

Goddamn that pun was good

What can I say? I do my best.

[Alderann]

Still looking for a lady for Lord Lannister

[New Granadeseret]

Still looking for a lady for Lord Lannister

I think Lassa is the only lady available at the moment, and she's already going to be courted by Loras... which basically means she's on lockdown for the time being unless you want to be declared an Enemy of the King.

[Alderann]

Still looking for a lady for Lord Lannister

I think Lassa is the only lady available at the moment, and she's already going to be courted by Loras... which basically means she's on lockdown for the time being unless you want to be declared an Enemy of the King.

I wouldn't do that the Tyrells are my allies

[Novae Vitae]

We were talking about ladies?

Than it would be even worse if we're including pissed off gentlemen, and other entities that may or may not be allowed to be discussed in this particular manner on this forum.

Just know if you start courting Lassa and Steffon ever catches wind of it... trust comes tumbling down fast and, trained prejudices kicking in, will likely persue vengeance. And they teach you how to produce quite a number of things in the Alchemists Guild...

Undoubtedly. It's pretty clear that Loras has had a lot of adulterous relations with girls in the Reach, but that was before he was married, and what lord hasn't? He'll also be incredibly careful that no news of his crazy sex-capades* in recent times reach King's Landing.

*I just made a new word. Deal with it.

[New Granadeseret]

I think Lassa is the only lady available at the moment, and she's already going to be courted by Loras... which basically means she's on lockdown for the time being unless you want to be declared an Enemy of the King.

I wouldn't do that the Tyrells are my allies

Than I think the only lady available is the Stark girl (who's name eludes me at the moment), who wants to be a Dame and sounds like it would be a pain in the neck to have as a wife.

As for Loras, in that case he probably has many, many ladies he'd rather not talk. Perhaps bribing one of the highest-status ones with a set-up with the Lord-Paramount of the Stormlands would be a convenient way to silence a possible weed in the garden of his new reputation?

[Novae Vitae]

I wouldn't do that the Tyrells are my allies

Than I think the only lady available is the Stark girl (who's name eludes me at the moment), who wants to be a Dame and sounds like it would be a pain in the neck to have as a wife.

As for Loras, in that case he probably has many, many ladies he'd rather not talk. Perhaps bribing one of the highest-status ones with a set-up with the Lord-Paramount of the Stormlands would be a convenient way to silence a possible weed in the garden of his new reputation?

Talia. Her name is Talia, and I don't think Loras would wed her if she was the last noble woman in the world.

Also, I'm sure a lady of a very powerful vassal could be secured for Lord Baratheon.

[Asyir]

Perhaps a brawl will break out today as well?

Lord Jaime and Ryndar against Lord Blackwood.

[Novae Vitae]

Perhaps a brawl will break out today as well?

Lord Jaime and Ryndar against Lord Blackwood.

Oh, but Loras isn't there to make his witty comments!

[Asyir]

Perhaps a brawl will break out today as well?

Lord Jaime and Ryndar against Lord Blackwood.

Oh, but Loras isn't there to make his witty comments!

Loras's comments would only enflame the situation.

Wait. That's what he wants

[Novae Vitae]

Oh, but Loras isn't there to make his witty comments!

Loras's comments would only enflame the situation.

Wait. That's what he wants

Well, if Blackwood died and his son was kept at court as an . . . honored guest . . . it would have been rather convenient if the Tully's happened to revolt.

[New Granadeseret]

Perhaps a brawl will break out today as well?

Lord Jaime and Ryndar against Lord Blackwood.

In the Throne Room? That's a breach of the King's Peace if I've ever seen one.

Also, Blackwood would lose, and as a minor lord would probably get the larger share of the blame, while the lion's share would ironically be minimal.

[Toronina]

Perhaps a brawl will break out today as well?

Lord Jaime and Ryndar against Lord Blackwood.

In the Throne Room? That's a breach of the King's Peace if I've ever seen one.

Also, Blackwood would lose, and as a minor lord would probably get the larger share of the blame, while the lion's share would ironically be minimal.

Brynden isn't some weakling, he's fairly strong.

[Asyir]

That wraps it up for me. Hopefully I can get some more posts in tomorrow.

[Novae Vitae]

In the Throne Room? That's a breach of the King's Peace if I've ever seen one.

Also, Blackwood would lose, and as a minor lord would probably get the larger share of the blame, while the lion's share would ironically be minimal.

Brynden isn't some weakling, he's fairly strong.

Not Lannister or Hightower strong, however.

That wraps it up for me. Hopefully I can get some more posts in tomorrow.

Une bonne nuit. And some posts involving Loras.

[Toronina]

Brynden isn't some weakling, he's fairly strong.

Not Lannister or Hightower strong, however.

That wraps it up for me. Hopefully I can get some more posts in tomorrow.

Une bonne nuit. And some posts involving Loras.

I meant physically.

[Aurinsula]

Geez, I was very slow here. (Spent all day Friday without Internet since we're moving to a new office.) It seems like the timeline has progressed a little bit; I'm going to provisionally move the Arryns and the Starks to private quarters. I hope that's alright and isn't modding.

[Of the Quendi]

Well I shall not assume to understand the OP perfectly, Aemon's age is clearly stated there--until such time as it is updated, I must defer to it. And there was a war, but ended, as described in the OP, as "inconclusively." The amount of time it would have required Aemon to go from Ghiscar to Westeros would be such that it would almost be pointless for him to have engaged in warfare at all--indeed, it is clearly specified in the OP that he did not.

No, he has no need to answer questions--but how incredibly stupid he shall look. And your dialogue--well demeaning the position of literally every lord in Westeros except Aerion--did not even answer the question. I shall reiterate the question: "Do you believe you are the rightful king of Westeros?" If Aemon attempted such a dialogue in King's Landing, hypothetically, this would be Loras's swift reply:

"Convincing, my lord, convincing indeed. Not only have you totally ignored my question, but you have insulted every person living in all of Westeros with the exception of His Grace. How stunning is your rhetoric." I should think therein Aemon will be severely demeaned.

Loras has explained to Aerion that Sansa is rebellious; and that if they seize Sansa, several lords will rebel and Aemon will conquer Westeros. Therefore, by proxy, the death or seizure of Aemon allows for the arrest and execution of Sansa.

And since a dragon will likely be guarding the Ghiscari fleet, the point is somewhat mute. We can continue the point of naval invasion if you want to continue, however.

And I prefer to think of this as a friendly debate. Have a good holiday; until . . . the next few days, I suppose.

The OP has Aemon's birth set at 302 here.

I don't think he will look stupid and he does answer the question. He says that there are outstanding issues that need to be resolved and admonishes house Tyrell for getting ideas above its station. The lords of Westeros are not going to be so foolish as to consider an admonishment of House Tyrell a more general criticism of all houses. That would be ridiculous.

Alright it makes sense then to link Sansa to Aemon, but if Aerion believes that a sizable amount of lords will rise up for Aemon getting a peaceful settlement with his brother is far preferable to making a martyr and kickstarting such a rising. Besides even if Aerion accepts that killing his older brother would strengthen his own rule he still has no quarrel with Aemon by the Tyrell story. And there is always the small matter of kinslaying.

I don't think discussing an invasion makes much sense at this point. A return of Aemon will have to be precipitated by a uprising in Westeros itself and discussing a out of the blue invasion makes little sense.

I was not speaking of the cities in and of themselves: I was speaking of the structure of power within Slaver's Bay as a whole (The frame of reference on which Aemon is operating). The Bay was so decentralized that not even a nominal central authority existed (unlike the Holy Roman Empire IRL;the best example of a decenteralized state that could still function as a single nation I can think of.), with power divided between the cities and further between the various Masters within the cities, alongside those holding outside estates (like olive plantations). This authority, which was recognized as sovereign, was removed. Thus, in a short period of time you go from a culturally similar put politically diverse group of city-states, to a nation here all authority rests in the hands of a single man, who doles it out to his underlings. This is a fairly radical shift, and sit poorly among nobles with inborn authority who displeased Aemon by not answering his call to arms all those years ago. I'd agree the Ghiscari claim and tyrannical would certainly work, but non-Seven worshipper might fall flat: King Stannis worshiped R'hllor, King Jon held the Old Gods, and the Northerners, Ironmen, some Dornish, and a handful of assorted houses (Blackwood, for instance) don't worship The Seven either and aren't any less legitimate because of it.

Any claim to be Prince of Dragonstone would also be up for debate, since in order for Aerion to be King in the first place Aemon must have been kicked out of the line of succession. As I mentioned earlier, the Tyrells aren't stupid enough to not cover their hindquarters at least that much. They've been working to gain legitimacy, and that only works if they say Aemon and his children don't qualify for the Iron Throne because (insert somewhat convincing legal argument here). By accepting that kind of title, they'd basically be saying he can come back and take the throne if Aerion were to die... which is certainly not in their plans. I can't speak for the Tyrells, but they'd probably prefer anything over a personal union (in a best case scenario, annexation at worst) with the Ghiscari Empire under as competent and strong-willed a leader as Aemon (Who would, in all likelihood, disinherit them for their actions) or, gods forbid, having to put the Dotharaki bastard on the throne.

If you've already been declared to be banished, it remains a crime to land unless the King specifically lifts your banishment. Landing a dragon might not be forbidden to the Aerion, who as King can theoretically do whatever he wants, but consider the following: if Viserys landed Drogon right at the gates of the Imperial Palace; a creature who has the power to set the entire capital ablaze in mere minutes, I'd imagine Aemon wouldn't wait to subdue him until after all his high officials were roasting alive. Its the same thing here; a dragon is an extremely dangerous creature and may as well be considered an army for all practical purposes. The sovereign may deploy it wherever he wishes on his own land, but the head of a foreign nation can't be expected to get away with it.

Slaver's Bay was not decentralized. It was different countries. Daenerys united most of it, Aemon followed in her footsteps uniting most of it. Within the new empire he then made himself the sole source of authority by placing himself over what magnates existed after Daenerys's far more centralized rule. That is basically the story of Aegon the Conqueror, except that his great lords where powerful to begin with and powerful after he took power, whereas Ghiscari magnates wasn't powerful before Aemon and wasn't powerful after. Maybe some Westerosi lords will be concerned about that but I can't see it being a major issue. But of course you are right that whichever lords failed to provide support for Aemon, therefore tacitly accepting the Tyrell takeover, will have everything to fear from his return to power.

I don't think there is any basis in the OP for claiming that Aemon has been banished or barred from the succession.

If Drogon landed in Meereen chances are he would never leave the city again but I don't think the two scenario's compare at all. Viserys and Aemon are for all intents and purposes at war. Aemon and Aerion aren't.