Westeros: Rise of a King (Dead)

[Woodstovia]

Okay guys, I have a big post coming up with Aerion, Viserys, Raven, Areo, some minor priest in Volantis, a spy guy, and multiple letters. Should be up either tonight or tomorrow.

When should we skip to the tournament?

Is my second char accepted?

[Arana]

Okay guys, I have a big post coming up with Aerion, Viserys, Raven, Areo, some minor priest in Volantis, a spy guy, and multiple letters. Should be up either tonight or tomorrow.

When should we skip to the tournament?

Is my second char accepted?

Indeed

[New Granadeseret]

Okay guys, I have a big post coming up with Aerion, Viserys, Raven, Areo, some minor priest in Volantis, a spy guy, and multiple letters. Should be up either tonight or tomorrow.

When should we skip to the tournament?

Very soon. Me and Cold seem to be out of things to do, Loras can't exactly write too much about what he's doing, and the Starks seem to have frozen over as well. Essos isen't exactly bound to our time, and Sansa can continue her conversation with them retroactively.

[Arana]

Okay guys, I have a big post coming up with Aerion, Viserys, Raven, Areo, some minor priest in Volantis, a spy guy, and multiple letters. Should be up either tonight or tomorrow.

When should we skip to the tournament?

Very soon. Me and Cold seem to be out of things to do, Loras can't exactly write too much about what he's doing, and the Starks seem to have frozen over as well. Essos isen't exactly bound to our time, and Sansa can continue her conversation with them retroactively.

True. In that case, my next post will be the time skip

[Toronina]

Is my second char accepted?

Indeed

What about mine?

[Diliath]

I agree to all points except the annual percentage, because 25% is too much let's say 10%. Also do I give you half of the ships of the Thirteen. If you agree to this will I edit my post.

25 % may be too high but 10 % is too low. 20 %.

Remember Qarth is incredebly rich and 20% of the year income of the city is more than that 5 million i gave you in the start. I don't go higher then 15%.

[The Imperial Republica]

Okay guys, I have a big post coming up with Aerion, Viserys, Raven, Areo, some minor priest in Volantis, a spy guy, and multiple letters. Should be up either tonight or tomorrow.

When should we skip to the tournament?

Maybe give everyone another day or so to wrap up any king's landing/essos/night's watch storylines, then just start a new chapter for the tourney? Whatever everyone else is cool with, I am cool with. This was just a suggestion.

[Of the Quendi]

I'll give you the camel thing on that note. Perhaps they have no horse cavalry but that is likely due to the fact horses are impractical for what campaigns they were expecting to fight; either having to transport by boat (in which case horses are less than practical due to their temperament and supply requirements), into the Red Wastes (where the horses wouldn't have the food or water they need), or fighting against the Dothraki (Whom they can't hope to beat with cavalry skills, and the chaos of having camel-scent causing a group's horses to spook and drop them from their saddle allowing them to neutralize any first advance, and scaring way the superstitious and horse-dependent tribes from attacking again, rendering their horses getting use to the scent after enough exposures irrelevant). They simply have no area in their strategy where horses would be the superior mount. They not having horse cavalry is no different that the North not having camels; its an extra expense for no added benefit.

The Pureborn simply can't stop the guilds, who are powerful enough to jostle for influence with them and who the Pureborn would know they are dependent on for their city's wealth. The difference in power of an individual guild member vs. the power of the guild as a whole is a much more greater than the Pureborn vs. The Guild of Spicers, The Thirteen, and the Tourmaline Brotherhood acting in unison (to promote their own interests as well as the interest of the community; the three acting together are likely even more powerful than the government. Even if they aren't constructed officially as warships, the guilds would have to be utterly daft in order for not be arming their merchants for inevitable pirate attacks against Qarth's valuable and exotic cargo. That many ships and that many sailors, organized in defense of Qarth's merchantile economy. Also, I fail to see why rebellion against the Pureborn would be popular; they have raw, ancient legitimacy, aren't corrupt and hording the city's wealth (It is stated, after all, they spend much of what they collect running the city, so they're clearly at least a competent civil government), and allows the guilds a great deal of autonomy and allow them to grow fabulously wealth. Taking on a large tax to the heart of their economy woulden't fan out well with anybody.

I meant that they were stronger in the east and the south. The Free Cities dominate things in the West, so there isen't much space for them to squeeze into.

Astapor would have been a complete wreck by the time the war was over: the Unsullied slaughtered anybody who knew anything about running an economy and threw the city's production into disarray. Cleon re-instated slavery and threw the city into even worse strife and essentially civil war by enslaving everybody who haden't been a slave before; something I'd imagine the former slaves would see as due justice and rather enjoy. The city was than sacked and burned for a second time in less than a year by Yunkai's armies, slaughtering the citizens and the Cutthroat King. 3/4 of her remaining population died of the flux, many more poisoned themselves to avoid being captured, and the rest are living in a city on fire, flattened, and riddled with illness (Those who fled the city spreading it to the countryside). We're talking essentially omnicide of a city here, and the rural population have no reason to come in even assuming they want to; the outside estates still be largely under the control of the Masters in their estates and reactionary rural peasants. For all intents and purposes, that city is dead, what areas of the countryside remain filled with the Flux and not having the proper knowledge to treat it, or supported/ were ravaged by Yunkai and New Ghis Legions on their way through. That is a demographic collapse you can't recover from in a generation, so one of the three great Slaver cities down.

Yunkai got away from the initial attack just fine, true: but as the fact it rebelled and went back to its old ways right after Daenerys left though shows the Masters aren't exactly keen of giving up their rule. She'll have to do what she did in Astapor; head in, slaughter the Masters, and pray another Cleon don't rear its ugly head. To do so, she must first make her way out of the Siege of Meereen. That city is in economic ruin, as a reading of A Dance with Dragons makes very clear: trade (one of the city's lifebloods) has all but ceased, the people inside are starving and can't sort out their labor, the area around the city was scorched before Daenerys came in, and many children dead. Releasing the pitfighters and letting them run amock throughout the city clearly didn't help, and what economic activity still does exist was largely in the hands of the slave-holding estates in the hitherlands; which would resist any attempt to take them down. That's not counting what damage the Sons of the Harpy and the battle that gets her out of Meereen does: the armies around her from all the cities of Slaver's Bay, and (imagine that) containing quite a chunk of the fighting and working age men of the region. Such a battle, even if Daenerys won, would be painfully costly to her city as well as the enemy armies (Which need to be cut down if the degree of centralization proposed is to take place). The only way she's getting anywhere is with dragonfire, but that would cause Meereen to catch alight too, as well as killing many of her future subjects. Meereen is going to be painfully damaged, both population-wise by starvation and battle at least (Add on fire and illness) and economically as all her old trade links are destroyed and her economic productivity collapses (When scortched-earth tactics expand to the outer estates to prevent their seizure), that it's hardly going to be a powerhouse either; Meereen is toast too, though better then Astapor.

Yunkai, as I've already touched upon, is now the target of vengeful Meereenian warriors, and will no doubt suffer terrible economic problems (as Astapor and Meereen did) from the abolition of slavery. If their armies are just driven from the walls of Meereen rather than burned to death, than they can scorch earth Daeny's route to Yunkai and will force her to make another decisive battle there. No bribing the sellswords this time (Since she's basically broke, and they slavers of caught wind of her turn-their-men-against-them tactics), which means either burning the city in dragonfire (indiscriminate and massive death), or beating the Yunkai in yet another large battle with major casulties (Men are getting aweful hard to find in Slaver's Bay by this point, particularly ones with reproductive organs still attached), and a number of hungry, vengeful soldiers looting the city to the ground (with the same results as burning the city; we're talking 4th Crusader levels of frustration). Without a siege, Yunkai would arguably get the best out of the lot, but still highly damanged with a depopulated hitherlands, mostly of old men, women, and some children (who aren't exactly going to be working economic miracles). And don't think a baby boom is going to help either; how do you plan on feeding all the young children with limited labor, destroyed farmland, most of the beasts of burden dead, and your level of technology?

Even than, she controls the east side of Slaver's Bay... what of it? New Ghis, the Isle of Ceders, and the north remain untouched which means; you guessed it, more warfare. Those aren't even considered great cities; small potatos compared to Astapor, Yunkai, and Meereen, so if they come out less damaged you're still facing huge loses. You also have to deal with Dothraki raids; who've probably heard of the weakness of the area (Westros and the Free Cities hear about it even during the Siege and stop sending ships, and the Dothraki do stop by to sell slaves frequently) and are imagining plunder. With so few men left to stop them, the outlying areas to the north-east would be field day (Daeny is basically out of cavalry), so its not like she can chase them, which likely explains how the outlying estates are weakened enough that she can take them. These combined, result in a ruined economy, French WW I levels of demographic collapse (and that's very generous) and security needs eating up the majority of what resources they can get. These conditions don't produce prosperity; they produce economic stagnation are best. I'm not just talking OOC: IC there is NO realistic way such centralization occurred without earth-shattering bloodshed and a painfully stunted economy.

The reforms would help, but I fail to see how less than 30 years later things are lollipops and rainbows. What are you going to build your new economy off of? Your agriculture is wrecked, so prices for food are going be high and, thanks to much cheaper products from the Free and Slaver cities who have living skilled craftsmen without permanent bodily damage, local laborers will barely be able to keep body and soul together despite that being exactly what you need to rebuild yourself into some semblance of a centralized civilization. You could try brutal forced labor (as they did in Meereen), but that's just going to lead to further declining in your population. Then you have to deal with farmers who are ticked off you're trying to 'tax' their harvest to pay those working to build the cities, roads, ect. needed for your nation, which leads to more repression and more death and more resistance to your rule that has to be removed. Its ugly no matter what way you slice it. Leaving it to float to the merchents (remember, you killed most of your domestic ones, so they're forgein) will lead to chaos, since you nobody domestic knows much about finance, or has the connections to avoid explotation due to you having killed the Masters. The tarrifs slapped on Westros and the resulting counter-tarrifs on Ghis aren't exactly building your market. Also, remember Daeny is living in King's Landing during that point, so she's not exactly there to keep personal command.

A good analogy for this would be Haiti combined with the economic wreckage of the South after the American Civil War. Free labor doesn't nessicerly produce and economic boom. Your markets are gone and your people have no idea how to handle free labor

That the merchant guilds may arm the crew of their ships is not the same as having warship. An armed merchant ship is still a merchant ship. And thank god for that. No city which has four competing armed forces is going to be a prosperous one for long. That there is any anti-Pureborn sentiment in the city I have never claimed so I am not sure why you want to address that. That Qarth should be stronger in the east in the west is something there is little basis for assuming. In the west the Free/Slaver cities are divided in the east there is a united Golden Empire of Yi Ti that isn't likely to share its power with the upstart Qartheen. What Qarth controls is the Jade Gate, a very lucrative trade route, nothing more. That is also what the OP has mapped so lets not try to invent a Qartheen empire that there is no basis for believing exists.

As for Slaver's Bay it would be in a poor state after the war but it would recover. Yes Astapor would take a long time to reach a semblance of its former size. But the fact that the population isn't loosing a couple of thousand slaves a year due to the cruel practices associated with the creation of Unsullied would do the city well and since there is no mention of its hinterland being destroyed it would recover. Meereen and Yunkay may never be hit very hard in the first place and they too would see an expansion of the population when instead of exporting slaves those are now left in Slaver's Bay to start families. Even if the three cities where hit hard they make up only a small part of the empire.

About wars for the rest of the of the Empire (also if New Ghis is a small potato then the fact that it can mobilize 36,000 of the best troops the Ghiscari region has to offer kinda make this discussion superfluous as in that case my empire would be able to call on truly vast forces even if its bigger cities was badly hit) those wouldn't necessarily have been hard fought ones. Conquering Cedar Isle would be done basically by landing a galley on its coast and raise a flag since there is no population to fight. The North, to the extent that it isn't part of Meereen, consists of Tolos, Elyria and Mantarys. The two former would be among the forces defeated at the second siege of Meereen. It is possible that they submitted peacefully afterwards, a defeat for the Yunkish coalition at Meereen would have likely broken it. Conquering them wouldn't necessarily mean destroying them either if they didn't submit. As for Dothraki raids that wouldn't be an issue since Daenerys apparently exercised control over at least part of the Dothraki. In any case the region is accustomed to bribing the Dothraki. Regarding New Ghis it was recently conquered in a relatively painless war that I may try to write the story of it at some point. It would not have devastated New Ghis at all.

I never said that things where lollipops and rainbows. But just the chance from having a number of weak, divided, incompetent and indifferent governments be replaced by one strong, united capable and highly dynamic would mean the world. The absence of the slave trade would definitely weaken the economy, but it would cause the population to grow as cruel treatment and export of people would be brought to a halt. Aemon's empire would have introduced a grain dole to the impoverished ex-slaves early in his reign and used all the excess labor that rising unemployment following the abolition of the slave trade would have produced, to expand on the agricultural base of his empire by expanding on or establishing irrigation systems along the Skahazadban and Worm rivers, establishing huge imperial run latifundia on which the former slaves would become a kind of serfs (which they wouldn't mind since it would be a step up from beggars and since they would be treated much better then they where as slaves). Simultaneously Aemon would spend a fortune in borrowed money to diversify the economy (yes the empire is in deep debt; thats why I am interested in supporting a coup in Qarth in the first place), setting up mining in the mountains to the east, expanding on the copper mining which Ghiscar apparently already has and which apparently they can sell to Qarth (and if they can't it doesn't matter since copper is used as currency) and establishing a timber industry on the Isle of Cedars (maybe even a colony with the same purpose on the location of the first empire's Sothorys colony). Lhazar would also only have grown richer with the abolition of slavery since it would mean that they won't be captured and sold by the Ghiscari. Their economy would prosper and provide the empire with revenue.

Remember Qarth is incredebly rich and 20% of the year income of the city is more than that 5 million i gave you in the start. I don't go higher then 15%.

I didn't say 20 % of the income of the city. I said 20 % of the trade tariff levied on the east-west trade route. Even Qarth is not so rich that 20 % of the trade tariff for a single year is more than five million gold dragons. If it is then even the 5 million will have to be increased.

[Diliath]

I edited my post. Hope you'll accept it now.

[Of the Quendi]

I edited my post. Hope you'll accept it now.

Its still too few ships. Your character(s) are supported by the Tourmaline Brotherhood. That leaves the Thirteen and the Ancient Guild of Spicers. I want the ships of one of those guilds. The Thirteen have the smaller fleet so I will settle for theirs, leaving you with the Spicers plus all ships owned by the Pureborn.

[Diliath]

I edited my post. Hope you'll accept it now.

Its still too few ships. Your character(s) are supported by the Tourmaline Brotherhood. That leaves the Thirteen and the Ancient Guild of Spicers. I want the ships of one of those guilds. The Thirteen have the smaller fleet so I will settle for theirs, leaving you with the Spicers plus all ships owned by the Pureborn.

You'll get them then. I'm not in a good position to negotiate.

[Of the Quendi]

You'll get them then. I'm not in a good position to negotiate.

Unfortunately not. But rule over Qarth is surely worth a lot. Once you have the city you will be in a better position to negotiate the future relationship between Qarth and the Empire.

[Tracian Empire]

Could I make a Blackfyre character?

[Arana]

Could I make a Blackfyre character?

House Blackfyre was extinguished before the series even started, and this is 30 years after that...

[Tracian Empire]

Could I make a Blackfyre character?

House Blackfyre was extinguished before the series even started, and this is 30 years after that...

The Male line was extinguished. My character will be half- Blackfyre, and of course that I will have no claim over the Iron Throne

[Arana]

House Blackfyre was extinguished before the series even started, and this is 30 years after that...

The Male line was extinguished. My character will be half- Blackfyre, and of course that I will have no claim over the Iron Throne

Hmm... what lands would you own?

[Tracian Empire]

The Male line was extinguished. My character will be half- Blackfyre, and of course that I will have no claim over the Iron Throne

Hmm... what lands would you own?

None for the moment. I mean, the Blackfyres were exiled from Westeros.

[Arana]

Hmm... what lands would you own?

None for the moment. I mean, the Blackfyres were exiled from Westeros.

True, but with no lands or claim on the throne, it may not be the most interesting character... but hey, go for it.

[Tracian Empire]

None for the moment. I mean, the Blackfyres were exiled from Westeros.

True, but with no lands or claim on the throne, it may not be the most interesting character... but hey, go for it.

Well I will support a Targaryen for the Iron Throne. Theoretical my character would have a claim on the Iron Throne, but who would support House Blackfyre?

[Of the Quendi]

True, but with no lands or claim on the throne, it may not be the most interesting character... but hey, go for it.

He could own lands in the east.

[Lunas Legion]

True, but with no lands or claim on the throne, it may not be the most interesting character... but hey, go for it.

He could own lands in the east.

Blackfyres have Valyrian blood, so it's entirely possible for them to have set themselves up inside Old Volantis as nobles. And if Zereno dies in the Volantine assault against Lys, it might be possible for the Blackfyres to get control of Volantis.

[Tracian Empire]

True, but with no lands or claim on the throne, it may not be the most interesting character... but hey, go for it.

He could own lands in the east.

Maybe

[Tracian Empire]

Right now, I have two ideas:
A son of Aegon( you know the theories about him being a Blackfyre
A bastard of Daenerys (the Blacfyre name is used for Targaryen bastards, just like Snow is used in the North for bastards.
I would like the second idea more, but I don't know if it is possible

[Arana]

Right now, I have two ideas:
A son of Aegon( you know the theories about him being a Blackfyre
A bastard of Daenerys (the Blacfyre name is used for Targaryen bastards, just like Snow is used in the North for bastards.
I would like the second idea more, but I don't know if it is possible

Not true. Blackfyre isn't the name of Targaryen bastards (most were named Waters or Rivers).

[Tracian Empire]

Right now, I have two ideas:
A son of Aegon( you know the theories about him being a Blackfyre
A bastard of Daenerys (the Blacfyre name is used for Targaryen bastards, just like Snow is used in the North for bastards.
I would like the second idea more, but I don't know if it is possible

Not true. Blackfyre isn't the name of Targaryen bastards (most were named Waters or Rivers).

Of some. And in this second idea of mine, my character was legitimised by Daenerys, but after she died, he took the name of Blackfyre, thinking that he wasn't worthy of the Targaryen name
A Youtuber said that Blackfyre was the name for the Targaryen bastards, and I had no idea about other Targaryen bastards. Anyway, Blackfyre sounds better then Rivers