Lord of the Rings: Naught but Ashes [OOC/Open/LOTR RP]

[The Seleucids (Ancient)]

In that case any realm you can think off can bulk up its forces through breeding and such, not only horses and fellbeasts can be bred you know.

No no, I'm saying that there were more Fellbeasts than the Nine rode, ready for use. Not that I'll be gaining more.

Besides, breeding a dozen beasts isn't the same as raising children to fighting age. I'd certainly think that Rohirrim are capable of getting remounts due to the size of the herds available to them, while I'd doubt they have many recruits available.

Source?

Also, true, but remember the last Alliance? Even beasts chose a side in that war.
Anyhow, what are actually your numbers now? We still don't know and before the first battle we should know.

[Lunas Legion]

Blast it Lunas, now I have to write another post detailing the effects of Galadriel's efforts.

Any specifics of how she's trying to tame the flames? Rain from above? Regenerative growth?

Both. She doesn't know what's in the fire; whether it's fire from black magic, natural fire, fire some way she doesn't know of, so she's thrown water and growth at it.

I may have also thought of a way to deal with the projectiles, but I'll need the Blue Wizards (or one of them) to help with that, since it's effectively magical squash.

[Osnil]

Blast it Lunas, now I have to write another post detailing the effects of Galadriel's efforts.

Any specifics of how she's trying to tame the flames? Rain from above? Regenerative growth?

Go Lorien!

[Escalan Corps-Star Island]

Blast it Lunas, now I have to write another post detailing the effects of Galadriel's efforts.

Any specifics of how she's trying to tame the flames? Rain from above? Regenerative growth?

Both. She doesn't know what's in the fire; whether it's fire from black magic, natural fire, fire some way she doesn't know of, so she's thrown water and growth at it.

I may have also thought of a way to deal with the projectiles, but I'll need the Blue Wizards (or one of them) to help with that, since it's effectively magical squash.

You have one of them once I get off my ass, stop OOC-lurking, and write.
What do you want my help on?

[G-Tech Corporation]

No no, I'm saying that there were more Fellbeasts than the Nine rode, ready for use. Not that I'll be gaining more.

Besides, breeding a dozen beasts isn't the same as raising children to fighting age. I'd certainly think that Rohirrim are capable of getting remounts due to the size of the herds available to them, while I'd doubt they have many recruits available.

Source?

Also, true, but remember the last Alliance? Even beasts chose a side in that war.
Anyhow, what are actually your numbers now? We still don't know and before the first battle we should know.

Source for what part, more Fellbeasts? Stands to reason doesn't it? Firstly, there's actual a location in Mordor called the Valley of the Fellbeasts, and again, no commander sends mounts to war without a means to replace them if they are slain.

Sure, I get that beasts had a side. I'm simply noting that, aside from the existing stocks, raising a dozen beasts is the same as, oh, picking up more companions as a remnant. It isn't like raising an army, or a regiment.

Hmm, I'll have to look again. My original pronouncement of several hundreds of thousands would be a good starting point, since Mordor in the War of the Ring seems to have had around a quarter of a million soldiers under arms. If we're talking around Lorien, I'd imagine many times those of the besieged. And Sauron's armies have obviously only grown since the War began, especially since they suffered comparatively light losses taking Rohan and Gondor, with Gondor being unsupported and Rohan being in disarray. Now? If we don't include recruited Men of the West, probably in the vicinity of a half million men and Orcs follow the Great Eye.

[Lunas Legion]

Both. She doesn't know what's in the fire; whether it's fire from black magic, natural fire, fire some way she doesn't know of, so she's thrown water and growth at it.

I may have also thought of a way to deal with the projectiles, but I'll need the Blue Wizards (or one of them) to help with that, since it's effectively magical squash.

You have one of them once I get off my ass, stop OOC-lurking, and write.
What do you want my help on?

Magically swatting burning things (fired by G's massive catapult things) out of the sky.

[G-Tech Corporation]

You have one of them once I get off my ass, stop OOC-lurking, and write.
What do you want my help on?

Magically swatting burning things (fired by G's massive catapult things) out of the sky.

That should be fun.

I mean, if all this bombardment does is kill a few defenders and wear out the magic of Lorien, I'm cool with that.

Plus it means I get to RP giant mid-air explosions.

[Lunas Legion]

Magically swatting burning things (fired by G's massive catapult things) out of the sky.

That should be fun.

I mean, if all this bombardment does is kill a few defenders and wear out the magic of Lorien, I'm cool with that.

Plus it means I get to RP giant mid-air explosions.

I doubt magically swatting rocks out of midair is going to use up much magic; especally since the wiki (haven't read the books for a while, so I'm using that) states that the only thing that could defeat Lorien's defences when Galadriel is using her magic along with that of Neyna to bolster them is Sauron himself.

[Raktio]

Hmm, a few things Raktio:

The generic catapults have never stopped firing during the siege, so I'm unsure how the Ents would build a stockpile aside from not responding to bombardment. Furthermore, their supply of stone would be much less than the besiegers. Most of them are out of range of the trees though, in static positions that no longer are capable of reaching Lorien due to the devastation of the surroundings.

The Voidspeakers are a different matter; they are about six times as large and far more powerful than Mordor's prior catapults, and as such have a necessarily longer range. Thus it makes sense that they not only reach the treeline, but far past the end of the burned zone from the regular catapults.

If the Ents were in combat with the regular catapults, assuming they have roughly equivalent ranges (a matter for debate, but I'll allow it), they wouldn't be capable of reaching the Voidspeakers in any meaningful manner.

Lastly, why are Ents more accurate than mechanical devices? I can see faster-firing, given a supply of ammunition, but I'm dubious about the claim of accuracy, or precision.

Are the Voidspeakers Trebuchets?

also I would imagine the catapults not being very accurate since they were built by orcs and orcish craftsmanship tends to be fairly cruddy.

[The Seleucids (Ancient)]

Source?

Also, true, but remember the last Alliance? Even beasts chose a side in that war.
Anyhow, what are actually your numbers now? We still don't know and before the first battle we should know.

Source for what part, more Fellbeasts? Stands to reason doesn't it? Firstly, there's actual a location in Mordor called the Valley of the Fellbeasts, and again, no commander sends mounts to war without a means to replace them if they are slain.

Sure, I get that beasts had a side. I'm simply noting that, aside from the existing stocks, raising a dozen beasts is the same as, oh, picking up more companions as a remnant. It isn't like raising an army, or a regiment.

Hmm, I'll have to look again. My original pronouncement of several hundreds of thousands would be a good starting point, since Mordor in the War of the Ring seems to have had around a quarter of a million soldiers under arms. If we're talking around Lorien, I'd imagine many times those of the besieged. And Sauron's armies have obviously only grown since the War began, especially since they suffered comparatively light losses taking Rohan and Gondor, with Gondor being unsupported and Rohan being in disarray. Now? If we don't include recruited Men of the West, probably in the vicinity of a half million men and Orcs follow the Great Eye.

Actually, its the Vale of the Fellbeasts, not the Valley.
Once again, i assumed we went by the lore, and that states there where 9, no others where ever mentioned. Aside from that, as stated by Star before, no recruitment, just some quests that can get you a certain reward.
I personally don't even get why somebody was accepted before knowing the numbers, but just make sure you get them up before any encounter takes place. Otherwise the opponent might aswell state it had 0 losses just for fair treatment.

[The Seleucids (Ancient)]

@Good & Evil, I have made a formula which decides wether the Dwarves join the good or evil side.

For the good side its:
1) Give Dwarves Strongholds
2) Give Dwarves Mountains

For the evil side its:
1) Give Dwarves Mountains
2) Give Dwarves Strongholds

[G-Tech Corporation]

That should be fun.

I mean, if all this bombardment does is kill a few defenders and wear out the magic of Lorien, I'm cool with that.

Plus it means I get to RP giant mid-air explosions.

I doubt magically swatting rocks out of midair is going to use up much magic; especally since the wiki (haven't read the books for a while, so I'm using that) states that the only thing that could defeat Lorien's defences when Galadriel is using her magic along with that of Neyna to bolster them is Sauron himself.

I think it's more a case of overthrowing the heart of Lorien, Caras Galadhon itself, specifically by defeating Galadriel. The precise quote is actually from the Appendices, not the text: "Three times Lórien had been assailed from Dol Guldur; but besides the valour of the elven people of that land, the power that dwelt there was too great for any to overcome, unless Sauron had come there himself. Though grievous harm was done to the fair woods on the borders, the assaults were driven back; and when the Shadow passed, Celeborn came forth and led the host of Lórien over Anduin in many boats. They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed."

From that we can see that Lorien, as in the greater forest, could certainly be harmed. To my mind, the protection of Lorien was bound in the person of Galadriel and her power, not in any larger enchantment akin to that of Melian. So she could defend Caras Galadhon, or where she walked, but obviously even that was not foolproof. I don't take Sauron for a fool; there's no reason to think that he assailed Lorien three times if it was truly impossible for him to gain anything from said assaults. Once I could see as a diversion, to prevent Lorien reinforcing Rohan or Gondor, but three times doesn't make sense.

So, essentially, it seems that Lorien could be assaulted, just at great cost, and overthrowing Galadriel and the power of the Elven Ring would be expensive indeed. Certainly the forest itself and the Elves were not immune to attack, for "grievous harm" occurred in respect to the land itself, and obviously every Elf was not effected. Essentially, if Galadriel personally walked to the site being bombarded, she could probably suppress the fires and destroy projectiles, but it seems dubious that she could do the same over the entirety of her domain. Case in point; the Orc-host from Moria, and Gollum, were able to penetrate far into the woods without her stopping them. The Orcs had to be killed by mundane means, and Gollum himself seems to have completely eluded her knowledge.

[Raktio]

BTW edited the Ent post slightly.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Hmm, a few things Raktio:

The generic catapults have never stopped firing during the siege, so I'm unsure how the Ents would build a stockpile aside from not responding to bombardment. Furthermore, their supply of stone would be much less than the besiegers. Most of them are out of range of the trees though, in static positions that no longer are capable of reaching Lorien due to the devastation of the surroundings.

The Voidspeakers are a different matter; they are about six times as large and far more powerful than Mordor's prior catapults, and as such have a necessarily longer range. Thus it makes sense that they not only reach the treeline, but far past the end of the burned zone from the regular catapults.

If the Ents were in combat with the regular catapults, assuming they have roughly equivalent ranges (a matter for debate, but I'll allow it), they wouldn't be capable of reaching the Voidspeakers in any meaningful manner.

Lastly, why are Ents more accurate than mechanical devices? I can see faster-firing, given a supply of ammunition, but I'm dubious about the claim of accuracy, or precision.

Are the Voidspeakers Trebuchets?

also I would imagine the catapults not being very accurate since they were built by orcs and orcish craftsmanship tends to be fairly cruddy.

Yerp, big ones.

Nah, they weren't built by Orcs. Sauron had plenty of evil men in his employ to do such tasks. Catapults are naturally inaccurate, but they're also naturally machines, and therefore reliable compared to a throwing arm.

Actually, its the Vale of the Fellbeasts, not the Valley.
Once again, i assumed we went by the lore, and that states there where 9, no others where ever mentioned. Aside from that, as stated by Star before, no recruitment, just some quests that can get you a certain reward.
I personally don't even get why somebody was accepted before knowing the numbers, but just make sure you get them up before any encounter takes place. Otherwise the opponent might aswell state it had 0 losses just for fair treatment.

Nit, meet pick.

Sure, we're going by lore. And the lore says that the Nine rode Fellbeasts, in combat. Do we extrapolate that the Rohirrim didn't have remounts for fast riding because they weren't mentioned in-text? Sure, no recruitment. Just remounts, and a reasonable breeding population capable of being used as mounts if necessary.

I was accepted with the broad figure of "hundreds of thousands of Orc-kin and evil men". Oh look, a number. As far as fair treatment, don't be silly now. We're already being plenty generous with your tens of thousands of Dwarf warriors.

[G-Tech Corporation]

BTW edited the Ent post slightly.

Hmm. Still some issues.

"The sorcerous green fire didn't reach most the trees which were still living for most had been hacked down or burned down."

We're talking much-farther firing weapons than the catapults that did the burning up to this point, firing to the edge of their range. If your average catapult fires, say, 200m, the mechanical advantage of a trebuchet this scale would be two to three times that range. I can imagine some premature detonations getting a bit of fire on the burned ground, but far from most not reaching indeed.

"The further in trees reminded untouched, carefully guarded by the Ents, who matched the enemy's artillery, and unlike the quickly doomed trebuchts of Gondor were more than capable of knocking the Fellbeasts out of the sky with a sizable stone."

How does guarding trees with equally flammable Ents protect them from fire? I mean, I can understand accuracy, but have you seen how slowly the Ents move their arms? The likelihood of hitting a flying target with them is far less than hitting the same target with an arrow, and that itself is remarkably small.

"smaller catapults throwing the much hated magic fire"

Just an interpretation point here- the catapults aren't throwing fire.

"During the years of stalemate on the line, the Ents and trees had gathered many a throwing sized rocks, so the front lines were well stockpiled."

I think this goes back to my original point about both rock supply for Lorien, and the viability of stockpiling in the face of a continued siege.

"The rocks currently in use, weren't their largest, however they easily took out the catapults on direct hits which occurred almost each they threw, and if not they landed uncomfortably close."

Sure, I'll be taking casualties. But saying an Ent at over a hundred meters can hit a target the size of itself every time seems unlikely, especially if said catapults are entrenched in siege lines. Have you ever played a game of catch over a reasonable distance? Even the best efforts of anyone outside someone who pitches professionally are off base frequently.

[The Seleucids (Ancient)]

Are the Voidspeakers Trebuchets?

also I would imagine the catapults not being very accurate since they were built by orcs and orcish craftsmanship tends to be fairly cruddy.

Yerp, big ones.

Nah, they weren't built by Orcs. Sauron had plenty of evil men in his employ to do such tasks. Catapults are naturally inaccurate, but they're also naturally machines, and therefore reliable compared to a throwing arm.

Actually, its the Vale of the Fellbeasts, not the Valley.
Once again, i assumed we went by the lore, and that states there where 9, no others where ever mentioned. Aside from that, as stated by Star before, no recruitment, just some quests that can get you a certain reward.
I personally don't even get why somebody was accepted before knowing the numbers, but just make sure you get them up before any encounter takes place. Otherwise the opponent might aswell state it had 0 losses just for fair treatment.

Nit, meet pick.

Sure, we're going by lore. And the lore says that the Nine rode Fellbeasts, in combat. Do we extrapolate that the Rohirrim didn't have remounts for fast riding because they weren't mentioned in-text? Sure, no recruitment. Just remounts, and a reasonable breeding population capable of being used as mounts if necessary.

I was accepted with the broad figure of "hundreds of thousands of Orc-kin and evil men". Oh look, a number. As far as fair treatment, don't be silly now. We're already being plenty generous with your tens of thousands of Dwarf warriors.

Remounts only and i'm fine with it, no lose fellbeasts in the wars, otherwise the elves might be returned from the "west" in full numbers to square it out
tens of thousends aren't that generous, Dwarves where easely capable of summoning that amount, or did you suddenly forgot about Erebor? Or what about the Moria dwarves during the Last Alliance that numbered 50,000 alone?
No, for me hundreds of thousends isn't a number, its a guesture, nothing more. But hey, i won't complain, if we ever face eachother and you still have "hundreds of thousends" then i will simply have 0 losses. Dwarves on steroids we call that. trippin through the orcs like walking through a soft winded tunnel.

[Elerian]

G you should finish that there post that ye started.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Remounts only and i'm fine with it, no lose fellbeasts in the wars, otherwise the elves might be returned from the "west" in full numbers to square it out
tens of thousends aren't that generous, Dwarves where easely capable of summoning that amount, or did you suddenly forgot about Erebor? Or what about the Moria dwarves during the Last Alliance that numbered 50,000 alone?
No, for me hundreds of thousends isn't a number, its a guesture, nothing more. But hey, i won't complain, if we ever face eachother and you still have "hundreds of thousends" then i will simply have 0 losses. Dwarves on steroids we call that. trippin through the orcs like walking through a soft winded tunnel.

Unless I mistake myself, Elves can't return from the West, so, well, that. That's actually a fair point though; how did the Ring come back? I suppose the Valar might have made a special dispensation, like when they sent the Istari, but it might be good to add to the OP.

Dwarves were easily capable of those numbers. Only eighteen thousand Dwarves fought at the Battle of Dale, and that included both militia and whatever scraps of wounded and old the Dwarves could pull together. And Erebor's population was basically derived from all the folk of Moria, a large part of those from the Grey Mountains and the Iron Hills, and a not inconsiderable number from the Blue Mountains. Basically, Erebor was large in terms of Dwarf holds. If anything the eastern holds would be individually smaller, especially as some of their folk had already immigrated to the Blue Mountains at the time of the Lord of the Rings, as evinced by the Dwarves migrating through the Shire from "the east".

Sure, each hold might be able to call ten or twelve thousand Dwarves to war. But for a total of even fifty thousand, that would take quite a stretch. The Dwarves have only diminished upon Arda in numbers, and the like of the army that fought in the War of the Last Alliance could not be seen upon this earth.

[The Seleucids (Ancient)]

Remounts only and i'm fine with it, no lose fellbeasts in the wars, otherwise the elves might be returned from the "west" in full numbers to square it out
tens of thousends aren't that generous, Dwarves where easely capable of summoning that amount, or did you suddenly forgot about Erebor? Or what about the Moria dwarves during the Last Alliance that numbered 50,000 alone?
No, for me hundreds of thousends isn't a number, its a guesture, nothing more. But hey, i won't complain, if we ever face eachother and you still have "hundreds of thousends" then i will simply have 0 losses. Dwarves on steroids we call that. trippin through the orcs like walking through a soft winded tunnel.

Unless I mistake myself, Elves can't return from the West, so, well, that. That's actually a fair point though; how did the Ring come back? I suppose the Valar might have made a special dispensation, like when they sent the Istari, but it might be good to add to the OP.

Dwarves were easily capable of those numbers. Only eighteen thousand Dwarves fought at the Battle of Dale, and that included both militia and whatever scraps of wounded and old the Dwarves could pull together. And Erebor's population was basically derived from all the folk of Moria, a large part of those from the Grey Mountains and the Iron Hills, and a not inconsiderable number from the Blue Mountains. Basically, Erebor was large in terms of Dwarf holds. If anything the eastern holds would be individually smaller, especially as some of their folk had already immigrated to the Blue Mountains at the time of the Lord of the Rings, as evinced by the Dwarves migrating through the Shire from "the east".

Sure, each hold might be able to call ten or twelve thousand Dwarves to war. But for a total of even fifty thousand, that would take quite a stretch. The Dwarves have only diminished upon Arda in numbers, and the like of the army that fought in the War of the Last Alliance could not be seen upon this earth.

I dunno, ships could go there so i assume they could go back aswell.

You do realize that the Dwarves of the west faced trouble time upon time again right? This (as far as we can tell) was not the case in the east, leaving them most likely with much larger numbers then those of the west. Also, that's a claim you make, it might aswell been that het full 18,000 where soldiers.

"and the like of the army that fought in the War of the Last Alliance could not be seen upon this earth" It already did ones, and yes, technically it can again looking at Dwarves alone.

[G-Tech Corporation]

I dunno, ships could go there so i assume they could go back aswell.

You do realize that the Dwarves of the west faced trouble time upon time again right? This (as far as we can tell) was not the case in the east, leaving them most likely with much larger numbers then those of the west. Also, that's a claim you make, it might aswell been that het full 18,000 where soldiers.

I believe Tolkien wrote it as working like a one way street; you couldn't actually sail there, but if you were an Elf and sailed West looking for Aman, you could find it. It was removed from the circles of the world by the Valar, so travel between the two realms would be, hmm, difficult at least.

Sure they faced trouble. But the Blue Mountains were largely unaffected by anything since the First Age, and a large part of Moria's considerable population fled rather than was slain by the Balrog. Even if the Balrog had killed a Dwarf every second during the time between its emergence and the flight of the Dwarves, we're still talking a huge population of Dwarves that fled from Moria, based on the size of army they could field. Even accounting for the casualties in the Dwarf and Goblin War (which the Eastern Holds shared in), that's a lot of Dwarves, a large part of which ended up in Erebor. And those Dwarves fielded an army of 18,000. The Dwarves were diminishing in Middle-Earth; I would be astounded if they could deploy a larger army than all Rohan and Gondor combined. Rohan could marshal around sixteen thousand men, whereas the army of Gondor even at the height of its glory was around twenty to thirty thousand men. All told, a bit less than fifty thousand men under arms, from the race that is ascendant in Middle-Earth.

You don't think that the Dwarves of Erebor would have fought with every Dwarf that could wield an axe when Erebor itself was attacked?

[G-Tech Corporation]

G you should finish that there post that ye started.

Sorry, I will. Lot's of writing going into that though Mordor has a lot of matters to address.

[Rizoshia]

Tagged, Gondorian Remnants inbound.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Tagged, Gondorian Remnants inbound.

Glad to have you!

[G-Tech Corporation]

Alright, I have posts up for you, Elerian, Shaggai. Sorry about the length, I've sort of run out of steam. If you want more, I can write more later.

[The Seleucids (Ancient)]

I dunno, ships could go there so i assume they could go back aswell.

You do realize that the Dwarves of the west faced trouble time upon time again right? This (as far as we can tell) was not the case in the east, leaving them most likely with much larger numbers then those of the west. Also, that's a claim you make, it might aswell been that het full 18,000 where soldiers.

I believe Tolkien wrote it as working like a one way street; you couldn't actually sail there, but if you were an Elf and sailed West looking for Aman, you could find it. It was removed from the circles of the world by the Valar, so travel between the two realms would be, hmm, difficult at least.

Sure they faced trouble. But the Blue Mountains were largely unaffected by anything since the First Age, and a large part of Moria's considerable population fled rather than was slain by the Balrog. Even if the Balrog had killed a Dwarf every second during the time between its emergence and the flight of the Dwarves, we're still talking a huge population of Dwarves that fled from Moria, based on the size of army they could field. Even accounting for the casualties in the Dwarf and Goblin War (which the Eastern Holds shared in), that's a lot of Dwarves, a large part of which ended up in Erebor. And those Dwarves fielded an army of 18,000. The Dwarves were diminishing in Middle-Earth; I would be astounded if they could deploy a larger army than all Rohan and Gondor combined. Rohan could marshal around sixteen thousand men, whereas the army of Gondor even at the height of its glory was around twenty to thirty thousand men. All told, a bit less than fifty thousand men under arms, from the race that is ascendant in Middle-Earth.

You don't think that the Dwarves of Erebor would have fought with every Dwarf that could wield an axe when Erebor itself was attacked?

Hmm... Never saw anything about that...

Sure, but we don't know anything about the Blue Mountains either.... But well, we will never know so i guess we could go for and back forever on that one.

I dunno, maybe yes, maybe no...