The Lost Civilizations - OOC/Signups

[Levis Avara]

When does the new Era begin? Also I heard that there would be Ideoligies how would that work?

I dunno. I think we should stay in this era till the war is over.

I think it would make sense if There was no increase in Item cap this time. Instead, Anyone can choose an Item category where Items count as half towards item cap.

For instance, Militaristic Ideology would make armed forces count as half when counting them towards item cap.

Um I think there should be a vote cause I disagree with the Item Cap staying the same

[United Soviet Jason Republic]

I dunno. I think we should stay in this era till the war is over.

I think it would make sense if There was no increase in Item cap this time. Instead, Anyone can choose an Item category where Items count as half towards item cap.

For instance, Militaristic Ideology would make armed forces count as half when counting them towards item cap.

Um I think there should be a vote cause I disagree with the Item Cap staying the same

*Nation with largest military steps up to podium*

Ya the item cap needs to be larger in the next era.

*returns to cuddle six reaming free slots*

[New Fraulasia]

Um I think there should be a vote cause I disagree with the Item Cap staying the same

*Nation with largest military steps up to podium*

Ya the item cap needs to be larger in the next era.

*returns to cuddle six reaming free slots*

*Nation being attacked by above nation steps up to Podium*

No, I like this new development, makes people prioritize what it is they're doing in the RP

*steps down to shelter himself from the air raids*

[United Soviet Jason Republic]

*Nation with largest military steps up to podium*

Ya the item cap needs to be larger in the next era.

*returns to cuddle six reaming free slots*

*Nation being attacked by above nation steps up to Podium*

No, I like this new development, makes people prioritize what it is they're doing in the RP

*steps down to shelter himself from the air raids*

lol basically the two viewpoints.

So what city can i attack again? Can i attack it yet? I plan to have my airships start high altitude bombing campaigns just for moral blows and possibly strategic strikes. My land force is just going to keep pushing... So Lotill is the city? May i strike it? I kind of like having an outcome before hand so we don't dissolve into... heated debates.....

[New Fraulasia]

I understand the question. I understand it all. The question no one asked.

I know who the Last Civilization is.
I know who the Lost Civilization is.

[United Soviet Jason Republic]

I am assuming this trench is not surrounding the city and is a line. If i am wrong let me know so i can edit my post...

[Pac Kindom]

I think the limet should be keep where it is

[Harkback Union]

Guys, You don't understand.
Limit stays the same, but with an ideology, you can make item in a category count as half towards item cap!
If you had 14 army item and you go army ideology, now those 14 items count as 7 towards item cap!

[New Fraulasia]

Yeah, I understand this.

[Harkback Union]

Here is the kind of ideologies that could work (2 could be adopted by 1 civ)

One that makes army items (Armies, Ground bases, Forts) count as half
One that makes navy items (Ships, Submarines, naval bases) count as half
One that makes Air force items (military Aircraft, Airfields) count as half
One that makes Civilian Infrastructure (cities, Roads, Electric lines) count as half
One that makes Industrial Infrastructure (Factories, Mines) count as half
One for This era knowledge
One for Culture
One for agents.

[Harkback Union]

Okay, So it looks like we are going to scrap the tech tree. There will be some limitations I hope we can agree on.

No nuclear weapons or power or before the 5th Era
No Spaceflight or jet engines before the 5th era
No Humans in space before the 6th era
No Computers before the 6th era
No lasers or plasma weapons before the 7th
No Fancy biotech before the 7th
No Robots or walkers before the 8th era
No nanotech before the 8th era (if we will ever get that far)
(we are currently in the 3rd era)

Sounds good?

Also, We would limit inventing 2 knowledge for each civ which would be then researchable by other civs.

[New Fraulasia]

Here is the kind of ideologies that could work (2 could be adopted by 1 civ)

One that makes army items count as half (and perhaps forts)
One that makes navy items count as half
One that makes Air force items count as half
One that makes Civilian Infrastructure (cities, Roads, Electric lines) count as half
One that makes Industrial Infrastructure (Factories, Mines) count as half
One for This era knowledge
One for Culture
One for agents.

Perhaps it should extend to be that the military ideologies also account for infrastructure intrinsically related to the branch of the military (Forts for one, Naval bases for another and airfields for a third.

[New Fraulasia]

Will we ever reach FTL?

[Harkback Union]

Here is the kind of ideologies that could work (2 could be adopted by 1 civ)

One that makes army items count as half (and perhaps forts)
One that makes navy items count as half
One that makes Air force items count as half
One that makes Civilian Infrastructure (cities, Roads, Electric lines) count as half
One that makes Industrial Infrastructure (Factories, Mines) count as half
One for This era knowledge
One for Culture
One for agents.

Perhaps it should extend to be that the military ideologies also account for infrastructure intrinsically related to the branch of the military (Forts for one, Naval bases for another and airfields for a third.

That Makes perfect sense. Military production however should belong to industrial Infrastructure Methinks.

[New Fraulasia]

Perhaps it should extend to be that the military ideologies also account for infrastructure intrinsically related to the branch of the military (Forts for one, Naval bases for another and airfields for a third.

That Makes perfect sense. Military production however should belong to industrial Infrastructure Methinks.

Yes, this I agree with.

[Pac Kindom]

Okay, So it looks like we are going to scrap the tech tree. There will be some limitations I hope we can agree on.

No nuclear weapons or power or before the 5th Era
No Spaceflight or jet engines before the 5th era
No Humans in space before the 6th era
No Computers before the 6th era
No lasers or plasma weapons before the 7th
No Fancy biotech before the 7th
No Robots or walkers before the 8th era
No nanotech before the 8th era (if we will ever get that far)
(we are currently in the 3rd era)

Sounds good?

Also, We would limit inventing 2 knowledge for each civ which would be then researchable by other civs.

Sounds a plan

[G-Tech Corporation]

Harkback, what should my aerial scout have discovered west of Landing?

[Harkback Union]

Harkback, what should my aerial scout have discovered west of Landing?

Hold on, I'll need about 12 hours before I can make that post.

Also, Did you find any error in my calculations regarding air resistance?

[G-Tech Corporation]

Harkback, what should my aerial scout have discovered west of Landing?

Hold on, I'll need about 12 hours before I can make that post.

Also, Did you find any error in my calculations regarding air resistance?

Honestly, I couldn't follow your mathematics well enough to tell what was going on, so I can neither disprove nor prove any errors. We're both really arguing from a position of near-ignorance; I'm a materials engineer, not an aeronautics engineer, and I'm not sure what your qualifications are. I'm presuming the zeppelin was able to fly, given, well, it flew.

However, I do have empirical evidence for zeppelins out-climbing military aircraft in WWI. From German Strategic Bombing in World War I, I quote:

"LZ 38 also attacked Dover and Ramsgate on 16–17 May, before returning to bomb Southend on 26–27 May. These four raids killed six people and injured six, causing property damage estimated at £16,898.[15] Twice Royal Naval Air Service (RNAS) aircraft tried to intercept LZ 38 but on both occasions it was either able to outclimb the aircraft or was already at too great an altitude for the aircraft to intercept; the BE2 took about 50 minutes to climb to 10,000 ft (3,000 m)."

Clearly, a well-design military aircraft was unable to climb as quickly as the zeppelin.

Additionally, I'd note that of the 30 zeppelins lost during the German campaign, only five were lost due to aeroplane attack, and four of those five were killed using explosive and incendiary ammunition by late-war aeroplanes. Given you're using civilian models, it's implausible that your planes could climb as fast as a zeppelin if the BE2 could not. Since the war only started a short time ago, nobody is designing planes with anything like combat experience to inform their engineering. Civilian planes are not meant to climb quickly, or designed to deal with the stresses of a dive and pulling out of said dive, let alone pulling out of said dive and immediately climbing for altitude. Structural failure during combat manuevers was common at the start of the Great War for airplane pilots attempting to dogfight, and using civilian transport models would only exacerbate issues like that.

I'm not against you, Hark. It's simply a fact that WWI airplanes had a hard time catching zeppelins. These were literally wooden frames with stretched wings and sewing machine engines. I think its perfectly reasonable if your planes try to shoot the zeppelins, but catching up to them for impact is implausible, especially considering its likely that some of those converted civilian planes would have suffered structural damage or breakup as they came out of their dives.

[Harkback Union]

Hold on, I'll need about 12 hours before I can make that post.

Also, Did you find any error in my calculations regarding air resistance?

Honestly, I couldn't follow your mathematics well enough to tell what was going on, so I can neither disprove nor prove any errors. We're both really arguing from a position of near-ignorance; I'm a materials engineer, not an aeronautics engineer, and I'm not sure what your qualifications are. I'm presuming the zeppelin was able to fly, given, well, it flew.

However, I do have empirical evidence for zeppelins out-climbing military aircraft in WWI. From German Strategic Bombing in World War I, I quote:

"LZ 38 also attacked Dover and Ramsgate on 16–17 May, before returning to bomb Southend on 26–27 May. These four raids killed six people and injured six, causing property damage estimated at £16,898.[15] Twice Royal Naval Air Service (RNAS) aircraft tried to intercept LZ 38 but on both occasions it was either able to outclimb the aircraft or was already at too great an altitude for the aircraft to intercept; the BE2 took about 50 minutes to climb to 10,000 ft (3,000 m)."

Clearly, a well-design military aircraft was unable to climb as quickly as the zeppelin.

Additionally, I'd note that of the 30 zeppelins lost during the German campaign, only five were lost due to aeroplane attack, and four of those five were killed using explosive and incendiary ammunition by late-war aeroplanes. Given you're using civilian models, it's implausible that your planes could climb as fast as a zeppelin if the BE2 could not. Since the war only started a short time ago, nobody is designing planes with anything like combat experience to inform their engineering. Civilian planes are not meant to climb quickly, or designed to deal with the stresses of a dive and pulling out of said dive, let alone pulling out of said dive and immediately climbing for altitude. Structural failure during combat manuevers was common at the start of the Great War for airplane pilots attempting to dogfight, and using civilian transport models would only exacerbate issues like that.

I'm not against you, Hark. It's simply a fact that WWI airplanes had a hard time catching zeppelins. These were literally wooden frames with stretched wings and sewing machine engines. I think its perfectly reasonable if your planes try to shoot the zeppelins, but catching up to them for impact is implausible, especially considering its likely that some of those converted civilian planes would have suffered structural damage or breakup as they came out of their dives.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/airfri.html

This is what I used to estimate the air resistance.
I got the drag coefficient for Cylinders from some other place.

Again, In your examples, The aircraft couldn't Intercept the airships. By intercepting, They mean getting to the airship. That's an entire different story. Airplanes build up their speed over time. If they have speed beyond what they need to stay afloat, They can use it to quickly climb altitude. They in turn, lose speed. If they want to increase their altitude by tens of thousands of feet, They can't use this tactic. They have to ascend slowly and rely on their engine's power to gain the energy they need to climb higher. My aircraft are already within shooting distance and have a large velocity from the climb which they can use to ascend.

Also, Aircraft at that time were light and had several wings to withstand the pressure during quick maneuvers. They could dive bomb and circle around at great velocities, which they did all the time during dogfights. Also My planes are sports planes (plane racers). At least this wing. The rest are crappy but not these.

[G-Tech Corporation]

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/airfri.html

This is what I used to estimate the air resistance.
I got the drag coefficient for Cylinders from some other place.

Again, In your examples, The aircraft couldn't Intercept the airships. By intercepting, They mean getting to the airship. That's an entire different story. Airplanes build up their speed over time. If they have speed beyond what they need to stay afloat, They can use it to quickly climb altitude. They in turn, lose speed. If they want to increase their altitude by tens of thousands of feet, They can't use this tactic. They have to ascend slowly and rely on their engine's power to gain the energy they need to climb higher. My aircraft are already within shooting distance and have a large velocity from the climb which they can use to ascend.

In my example the aircraft were outclimbed by the airships. It's not that they could climb to the same altitude as the airships; its that they couldn't keep up with the airships when both ship and plane were climbing. Certainly it would be easier to attempt to catch an airship from the same altitude, but you'll notice that the example clearly distinguished between being outclimbed and the airships being too high to catch as different scenarios. Airplanes do build up speed over time, but they also have a max speed.

Also, Aircraft at that time were light and had several wings to withstand the pressure during quick maneuvers. They could dive bomb and circle around at great velocities, which they did all the time during dogfights. Also My planes are sports planes (plane racers). At least this wing. The rest are crappy but not these.

Sure, they had a lot of wings to withstand the forces of maneuvering. The reason that worked, though, is because maneuvers were as a rule of thumb done at slow speeds. WWI dogfighting (the fastest maneuvering one would attempt) was conducted at about 110 kmph, tops. 110 kmph translates to 30 m/s; a prodigious amount of speed, but an amount of speed that would be shed very rapidly when climbing. WWI planes had to ascend slowly because most were essentially gliders with an engine to gain altitude; their speed came from speed built up from altitude, not the ability to independently maintain a speed. Given your planes were out of firing range when they pulled out of their dives, and had to pull up to enter that range, they'd be shedding speed at only slightly under the acceleration of gravity.

As noted in the example, "the BE2 took about 50 minutes to climb to 10,000 ft (3,000 m)." The BE2 was designed as a military fighter plane, meant to put up with more than any theoretical civilian racing plane. Despite the desire to win in a civilian setting, racing pilots have less of an imperative to do risky manuevers than a military plane which will be doing those manuevers in order to avoid being shot.

So, the BE2 had a climb speed of 3000 m in 50 minutes, or 60 m a minute. That translates to exactly one meter per second. Again, even if we increase that speed for a plane coming out of a dive, that's still slower than your theoretical climb speed for the LZ 18 after a few seconds.

So, we're looking at a climb-rate of 30 m/s for about five seconds, decreasing rapidly over those five seconds until it reaches the 1 m/s rate of early WWI fighters.

[Levis Avara]

OH MY GOD DID BYTHON JUST CONQUER NEW ZYRAS?!?!!??!?!?!?

[Pac Kindom]

OF course if Seno Zhou Varada comes back, i delete the the post

[Levis Avara]

OF course if Seno Zhou Varada comes back, i delete the the post

Um I think it's gonna be a hundred times harder to control New Zyras when their culture is centered on Revolution....

[Pac Kindom]

OF course if Seno Zhou Varada comes back, i delete the the post

Um I think it's gonna be a hundred times harder to control New Zyras when their culture is centered on Revolution....

i do not expect to hold it for long