The Lost Civilizations - OOC/Signups

[Harkback Union]

So wouldn't our aircraft collide?
You ascended through the cloud just as I slided through.

By the way listening to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V92OBNsQgxU
Is mandatory while making Air combat posts.

[United Soviet Jason Republic]

So wouldn't our aircraft collide?
You ascended through the cloud just as I slided through.

By the way listening to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V92OBNsQgxU
Is mandatory while making Air combat posts.

Depends if you want them to collide. Also i agree this is mandatory.

[New Fraulasia]

Don't hold me to this...

http://imgur.com/teFr6Qj

That, to the best of my just-started-today abilities, is the Oesterland.

EDIT: Is it working?

[New Fraulasia]

Wait, let me try that again...

http://i.imgur.com/teFr6Qj.png?1

That should be better.

[New Fraulasia]

Wait, never mind, that's terrible. I'll get back to work.

[Harkback Union]

Just start from scratch and draw down Goffsill as you have it in your mind. Screw my map. Be sure the dimensions are big when you upload. Feel Free to add small details.

[New Fraulasia]

Just start from scratch and draw down Goffsill as you have it in your mind. Screw my map. Be sure the dimensions are big when you upload. Feel Free to add small details.

I must unlearn what I have learned?

[Harkback Union]

Just start from scratch and draw down Goffsill as you have it in your mind. Screw my map. Be sure the dimensions are big when you upload. Feel Free to add small details.

I must unlearn what I have learned?

Well, you can keep the rough geography appearent on the map and perhaps location of the major cities.
The rest is up to you.

[Harkback Union]

Uhm, G-tech. Since when do massive airships go higher and faster then planes? Baloons designed for altitude records stripped of all non-essential equipment yes, But regular Zeppelins and the likes barely made it to 6.5 thousand feet. If they were designed to go high up, perhaps it would have made sense for them to go, say, 20,000 feet, but even they couldn't climb at a rate higher then my planes given the airship's mass and my plane's speed from the descent. Momentum of airships takes a lot of time to build up, as do release of ballast. If you do it too fast, The Airship is exposed to stress no fragile hull could sustain.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Uhm, G-tech. Since when do massive airships go higher and faster then planes? Baloons designed for altitude records stripped of all non-essential equipment yes, But regular Zeppelins and the likes barely made it to 6.5 thousand feet. If they were designed to go high up, perhaps it would have made sense for them to go, say, 20,000 feet, but even they couldn't climb at a rate higher then my planes given the airship's mass and my plane's speed from the descent. Momentum of airships takes a lot of time to build up, as do release of ballast. If you do it too fast, The Airship is exposed to stress no fragile hull could sustain.

Hmm? I'm not sure what your sources are for those claims, but I'm basing my conclusions off of the German Zeppelin bombing campaign of WWI. High altitude zeppelins then were nearly impossible for the planes of the day to intercept, because the planes of the day climbed so slowly. From a regular patrol height it could take over an hour for planes to climb to a zeppelin's operation ceiling, and there were instances of zeppelins encountering Allied fighters over Belgium and escaping by dropping ballast thus climbing away too fast to be intercepted.

USJR was going to make a costly mistake, so I told him a strategy his officers would know.

An airplane climbs under the power of its engine. Hydrogen climbs because it's much lighter than air.

[Harkback Union]

Uhm, G-tech. Since when do massive airships go higher and faster then planes? Baloons designed for altitude records stripped of all non-essential equipment yes, But regular Zeppelins and the likes barely made it to 6.5 thousand feet. If they were designed to go high up, perhaps it would have made sense for them to go, say, 20,000 feet, but even they couldn't climb at a rate higher then my planes given the airship's mass and my plane's speed from the descent. Momentum of airships takes a lot of time to build up, as do release of ballast. If you do it too fast, The Airship is exposed to stress no fragile hull could sustain.

Hmm? I'm not sure what your sources are for those claims, but I'm basing my conclusions off of the German Zeppelin bombing campaign of WWI. High altitude zeppelins then were nearly impossible for the planes of the day to intercept, because the planes of the day climbed so slowly. From a regular patrol height it could take over an hour for planes to climb to a zeppelin's operation ceiling, and there were instances of zeppelins encountering Allied fighters over Belgium and escaping by dropping ballast thus climbing away too fast to be intercepted.

USJR was going to make a costly mistake, so I told him a strategy his officers would know.

An airplane climbs under the power of its engine. Hydrogen climbs because it's much lighter than air.

By "Intercept", you mean get near the airship. Climb rate over long distances may benifit airships but Leto's ships are already intercepted. My planes are about mere 1-1.5 kilometer away and at the same altitude. He just got rid of his ballast so his vertical motion is yet to build up. My planes already reached +200 Kilometers per hour when they descended to investigate the cloud. To convert that to about 50 kilometer per hour vertical motion takes pulling a lever.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Hmm? I'm not sure what your sources are for those claims, but I'm basing my conclusions off of the German Zeppelin bombing campaign of WWI. High altitude zeppelins then were nearly impossible for the planes of the day to intercept, because the planes of the day climbed so slowly. From a regular patrol height it could take over an hour for planes to climb to a zeppelin's operation ceiling, and there were instances of zeppelins encountering Allied fighters over Belgium and escaping by dropping ballast thus climbing away too fast to be intercepted.

USJR was going to make a costly mistake, so I told him a strategy his officers would know.

An airplane climbs under the power of its engine. Hydrogen climbs because it's much lighter than air.

By "Intercept", you mean get near the airship. Climb rate over long distances may benifit airships but Leto's ships are already intercepted. My planes are about mere 1-1.5 kilometer away and at the same altitude. He just got rid of his ballast so his vertical motion is yet to build up. My planes already reached +200 Kilometers per hour when they descended to investigate the cloud. To convert that to about 50 kilometer per hour vertical motion takes pulling a lever.

Well, I based my assumption on the fact that his bombs would have formed a large part of his ballast; they conducted the bombing before you spotted them, or just about the same time, so as soon as bombs had left the ship it would be in a direct ascent. During a direct ascent, even late 1918 fighters couldn't keep pace with a pre-War Zeppelin, let alone one designed in the era, as evinced by the fact that RNAS fighters- despite scoring hits on the LZ 38 in 1915- were unable to keep up with the zeppelin and continue engaging it. Aircraft could climb to the same height as a Zeppelin, they just spent immense amounts of fuel climbing there, and took longer than the dirigibles themselves.

So, basically, you'll probably be able to get in a pass or two, but from a kilometer away at the same altitude the Zeppelins will be above your planes and pulling away by the time the positions are similar. You certainly have time to squeeze off one or two strafing runs from the planes, but be aware they're pulling out of a dive, and biplanes aren't known for their ability to recover at speed.

[Harkback Union]

By "Intercept", you mean get near the airship. Climb rate over long distances may benifit airships but Leto's ships are already intercepted. My planes are about mere 1-1.5 kilometer away and at the same altitude. He just got rid of his ballast so his vertical motion is yet to build up. My planes already reached +200 Kilometers per hour when they descended to investigate the cloud. To convert that to about 50 kilometer per hour vertical motion takes pulling a lever.

Well, I based my assumption on the fact that his bombs would have formed a large part of his ballast; they conducted the bombing before you spotted them, or just about the same time, so as soon as bombs had left the ship it would be in a direct ascent. During a direct ascent, even late 1918 fighters couldn't keep pace with a pre-War Zeppelin, let alone one designed in the era, as evinced by the fact that RNAS fighters- despite scoring hits on the LZ 38 in 1915- were unable to keep up with the zeppelin and continue engaging it. Aircraft could climb to the same height as a Zeppelin, they just spent immense amounts of fuel climbing there, and took longer than the dirigibles themselves.

So, basically, you'll probably be able to get in a pass or two, but from a kilometer away at the same altitude the Zeppelins will be above your planes and pulling away by the time the positions are similar. You certainly have time to squeeze off one or two strafing runs from the planes, but be aware they're pulling out of a dive, and biplanes aren't known for their ability to recover at speed.

No, They pulled out of dive before reaching the cloud. Then the passed through it horizontally (While maintaining most of their speed) and then they pulled up.

I actually got figures. Climb rate of Allied non-ridgid airships peaked around 2000 feet per minute (and thats a record, after release of all their ballast and their vertical motion reaches equilibrium) meanwhile an average rate is 1200 feet. Now according to my best knowledge, Ridgid airships have a slower climbrate then their non-ridgid brethren.

For a biplane to ascend 1800 feet in 30 seconds would require about 25 Degree angle at speeds of 200-250 kilometers per hour and result in large loss of speed. In the meantimeI expect Leto's ships to ascend about 1000 Feet at best. My planes can also get closer horizontally at this time. Then they strike from above.

My Sources are "The Aerodome" (ww1 flight site). There is actually very little about airships and biplanes around the rest of the net.

If you want to, I can actually do the math needed to estimate motion of Leto's arships, If I'm provided with:
the ship's dimensions
Its mass
The ballast it released

[New Fraulasia]

I have a new found respect for you Hark, and all others completing maps for these sorts of things.

[Harkback Union]

I forgot to add I must also know what altitude we are at. can make big difference.

[Harkback Union]

I have a new found respect for you Hark, and all others completing maps for these sorts of things.

Don't make it too fancy. That's my job. Just put down some dots. I'll handle the rest.
Don't steal my job!
You could also just tell me where all your stuff is relative to goffsill and how they look like.

[New Fraulasia]

I have a new found respect for you Hark, and all others completing maps for these sorts of things.

Don't make it too fancy. That's my job. Just put down some dots. I'll handle the rest.
Don't steal my job!
You could also just tell me where all your stuff is relative to goffsill and how they look like.

So I have to get rid of the dedication to the airship crews who died mapping the region?
And I don't need to organize the military movements based on Nation?

And this:

Commissioned in 2041 A.O.P. by the Goffsill High Command

Created by Virgil [censored], Captain in the First Goffsill Skyfleet

Because I was presenting this as a Goffsill military document.

[G-Tech Corporation]

No, They pulled out of dive before reaching the cloud. Then the passed through it horizontally (While maintaining most of their speed) and then they pulled up.

Fair enough. So they were at ~200 kmph in the dive, then shed speed transitioning to horizontal flight, then shed more speed beginning to climb. So, not 200 kmph any more.

I actually got figures. Climb rate of Allied non-ridgid airships peaked around 2000 feet per minute (and thats a record, after release of all their ballast and their vertical motion reaches equilibrium) meanwhile an average rate is 1200 feet. Now according to my best knowledge, Ridgid airships have a slower climbrate then their non-ridgid brethren.

Certainly so. Rigid airframes do have a slower climbrate on average than non-rigid specimens. I'm not convinced on that figure, but we'll talk about that after biplane figures for comparison.

For a biplane to ascend 1800 feet in 30 seconds would require about 25 Degree angle at speeds of 200-250 kilometers per hour and result in large loss of speed. In the meantimeI expect Leto's ships to ascend about 1000 Feet at best. My planes can also get closer horizontally at this time. Then they strike from above.

Let me stop you there; the Sopwith Camel, a very good late-War biplane, had a climb rate of 1085 ft/minute under regular conditions. Not coming out of a dive, not through a rarified atmosphere, from ground level. I find it hard to believe that you're deploying a biplane that can climb twice as fast as the Camel, let alone at altitude. As propeller aircraft climb they get slower, as there ends up being less air for their blades to bit. It'd be reasonable to say that your biplanes (if they're as good as well-designed late War military biplanes) are probably climbing slower than a thousand ft/minute, if not much less due to their status as essentially civilian designs.

Now, I can't find any reliable sources for Zeppelin rates of climb. I can, however, find WWI sources confirming the fact that Zeppelins could, in fact, outclimb aircraft. For instance, in the International Military Digest of 1916, on page 102, it is specifically noted that "Gunfire apart, what the Zeppelin most dreads is the aeroplane, and this because of its vulnerability. That is, if an aeroplane can succeed in rising above its huge antagonist and then drop a bomb upon the unprotected upper service, it will probably put it out of action. As between the two types of aircraft, the Zeppelin has rather the better of it, in the matter of guns. Further, a Zeppelin can ascend faster than an aeroplane can climb."

Frankly, I trust a man qualified to write for a military journal more than my wikipedia ramblings, and he lived in the era we're discussing. If he says a Zeppelin can out-climb an "aeroplane", I'll take his word for it.

[Levis Avara]

When does the new Era begin? Also I heard that there would be Ideoligies how would that work?

[Harkback Union]

Allright, I did the calculations on the hindenburg.
More info:
http://www.airships.net/helium-hydrogen-airships

Its mass is roughly
210,000 kilogram. That's also how much lift it has (By this I mean the force needed to accelerate) when it reaches cruise altitude. Now I'm going to completely ignore air pressure change due to ascent (which would reduce lift) to make calculations easy (its not like it matters on the short run anyway). It carried 7,950 Kilograms of ballast, 9,560 kg of cargo (in this case, bombs) and about 50k Fuel.
Lets say that the airship burned half the fuel. That reduces total mass to 195,000 kg and it released 25k worth of lift to stay at cruise altitude. It also uses up half its ballast while its moving up and down inside clouds, mass Reduced to 191k along with lift. Then the bombs get released along with ballast (about 13.5 tonnes). The lift that previously kept this 13.5 tonnes afloat now accelerates the craft. For each kilogram there is 10 Newton (I know, Very rounded) of lift so now we have 135,000 Newtons. The craft accelerated weights 191,000 kilograms

a=F/m

The craft initially accelerates at a rate of 135,000/191,000 (in meter per (second squared)
0.70680628272 meter per second^2 times 60 seconds is 42.4083769632 meters per second. That's a pretty impressive speed reached by the end of the first minute, however there is air resistance, which is a nightmare to account for because I can't find the drag coefficient of an airship of this size. I'll figure something out tomorrow.
Now if the airship was flat. In any case, I can tell you Air resistance is going to be huge so don't worry about a thing.

Average climb rate is one thing but can be hugely surpassed when you are coming out of a dive (which helps you climb back). Rare air also means aircraft can fly faster without having to worry about air resistance. My planes could go well above 200 km/hour when they start to ascend.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Allright, I did the calculations on the hindenburg.
More info:
http://www.airships.net/helium-hydrogen-airships

Its mass is roughly
210,000 kilogram. That's also how much lift it has (By this I mean the force needed to accelerate) when it reaches cruise altitude. Now I'm going to completely ignore air pressure change due to ascent (which would reduce lift) to make calculations easy (its not like it matters on the short run anyway). It carried 7,950 Kilograms of ballast, 9,560 kg of cargo (in this case, bombs) and about 50k Fuel.
Lets say that the airship burned half the fuel. That reduces total mass to 195,000 kg and it released 25k worth of lift to stay at cruise altitude. It also uses up half its ballast while its moving up and down inside clouds, mass Reduced to 191k along with lift. Then the bombs get released along with ballast (about 13.5 tonnes). The lift that previously kept this 13.5 tonnes afloat now accelerates the craft. For each kilogram there is 10 Newton (I know, Very rounded) of lift so now we have 135,000 Newtons. The craft accelerated weights 191,000 kilograms

a=F/m

The craft initially accelerates at a rate of 135,000/191,000 (in meter per (second squared)
0.70680628272 meter per second^2 times 60 seconds is 42.4083769632 meters per second. That's a pretty impressive speed reached by the end of the first minute, however there is air resistance, which is a nightmare to account for because I can't find the drag coefficient of an airship of this size. I'll figure something out tomorrow.
Now if the airship was flat. In any case, I can tell you Air resistance is going to be huge so don't worry about a thing.

Average climb rate is one thing but can be hugely surpassed when you are coming out of a dive (which helps you climb back). Rare air also means aircraft can fly faster without having to worry about air resistance. My planes could go well above 200 km/hour when they start to ascend.

Correct, after a fashion. Your statistics make sense for the Hindenburg, but the Hindenburg was not a military aircraft.

Let's look at a different airship, a military one: the the LZ 18. It had a volume of 27,000 cubic meters, compared to the Hindenburg's 200,000 cubic meters, and usable lift of 11,100 kg versus 21,100 kg for the Hindenburg.

LZ carries a crew of 15, which we'll be generous and call 70 kg each, for a total of 1050 kg. Then we'll fill an additional 25% of the weight with fuel, like the Hindenburg. That's 2775 kg. Probably a bit generous since the LZ wasn't doing Transatlantic flights, but we'll just use that for purposes of comparison. Then we need provisions; probably not much, as these were day long sorties, but we'll strap another man's body weight of food in there. So, a total non-bomb and non-ballast weight of 3895 kilos which we won't be throwing over the side, but we will be burning.

Then, ballast and bombs. We'll give her, oh, 1500 kg of bombs, like her counterparts, and the rest in ballast to keep her level. So, ballast of 5705 kg.

So, when filled, her mass will increase by an additional third. The LZ 18 then had an empty weight of 20,000 kg, which we'll bump up to 30,000 kg when full of hydrogen. She then takes off at a mass of 41,100 kg, fully loaded for a bombing mission.

As you said, she burns half her fuel to get to the destination, and drops her payload of bombs. This makes her lighter already by 2888 kilos, providing an upward force of roughly 28,400 Newtons. That force is moving an object with a mass of 38,213 kilograms.

As you said, a = F/m. The LZ 18, after its bombing run, is already ascending at an acceleration of about three quarters of a meter a second, so at the end of the first minute she'll be moving at a good 44.59 meters per second. Let's say that our captain spies pursuing aircraft and decides to cut off some ballast to get himself out of danger. He drops a mere quarter of his ballast weights, sending his craft to being lighter by 4314 kilos. For reference, the Sophwith Camel has a climb rate of 5.5 meters per second at a speed of 185 kph. If the two start at a level atmosphere, in twenty seconds the Zeppelin will be 900 meters above the plane's starting altitude, in which time the plane will have climbed only 100 meters.

Realistically, a Zeppelin captain would have filled his cells with air to account for the fuel lost, so as to maintain steady flight. But the principle is the same. A military airship's lift is quite easily adjusted compared to a commercial version, as they don't have drawing rooms and hotel beds aboard, being day-mission vehicles. Even with only the light bombload gone, and an upwards force of 14,715 Newtons, the LZ 18 would be accelerating upwards at a good 22.29 meters per second, four times quicker than a very good WWI fighter plane.

So, even if we allow for your biplanes to be going very quickly coming out of their dives, quadrupling their rate of ascent to catch the Zeppelins, they'll still be slower than the Zeppelins, and shedding speed by the second.

[Harkback Union]

Allright, I did the calculations on the hindenburg.
More info:
http://www.airships.net/helium-hydrogen-airships

Its mass is roughly
210,000 kilogram. That's also how much lift it has (By this I mean the force needed to accelerate) when it reaches cruise altitude. Now I'm going to completely ignore air pressure change due to ascent (which would reduce lift) to make calculations easy (its not like it matters on the short run anyway). It carried 7,950 Kilograms of ballast, 9,560 kg of cargo (in this case, bombs) and about 50k Fuel.
Lets say that the airship burned half the fuel. That reduces total mass to 195,000 kg and it released 25k worth of lift to stay at cruise altitude. It also uses up half its ballast while its moving up and down inside clouds, mass Reduced to 191k along with lift. Then the bombs get released along with ballast (about 13.5 tonnes). The lift that previously kept this 13.5 tonnes afloat now accelerates the craft. For each kilogram there is 10 Newton (I know, Very rounded) of lift so now we have 135,000 Newtons. The craft accelerated weights 191,000 kilograms

a=F/m

The craft initially accelerates at a rate of 135,000/191,000 (in meter per (second squared)
0.70680628272 meter per second^2 times 60 seconds is 42.4083769632 meters per second. That's a pretty impressive speed reached by the end of the first minute, however there is air resistance, which is a nightmare to account for because I can't find the drag coefficient of an airship of this size. I'll figure something out tomorrow.
Now if the airship was flat. In any case, I can tell you Air resistance is going to be huge so don't worry about a thing.

Average climb rate is one thing but can be hugely surpassed when you are coming out of a dive (which helps you climb back). Rare air also means aircraft can fly faster without having to worry about air resistance. My planes could go well above 200 km/hour when they start to ascend.

Correct, after a fashion. Your statistics make sense for the Hindenburg, but the Hindenburg was not a military aircraft.

Let's look at a different airship, a military one: the the LZ 18. It had a volume of 27,000 cubic meters, compared to the Hindenburg's 200,000 cubic meters, and usable lift of 11,100 kg versus 21,100 kg for the Hindenburg.

LZ carries a crew of 15, which we'll be generous and call 70 kg each, for a total of 1050 kg. Then we'll fill an additional 25% of the weight with fuel, like the Hindenburg. That's 2775 kg. Probably a bit generous since the LZ wasn't doing Transatlantic flights, but we'll just use that for purposes of comparison. Then we need provisions; probably not much, as these were day long sorties, but we'll strap another man's body weight of food in there. So, a total non-bomb and non-ballast weight of 3895 kilos which we won't be throwing over the side, but we will be burning.

Then, ballast and bombs. We'll give her, oh, 1500 kg of bombs, like her counterparts, and the rest in ballast to keep her level. So, ballast of 5705 kg.

So, when filled, her mass will increase by an additional third. The LZ 18 then had an empty weight of 20,000 kg, which we'll bump up to 30,000 kg when full of hydrogen. She then takes off at a mass of 41,100 kg, fully loaded for a bombing mission.

As you said, she burns half her fuel to get to the destination, and drops her payload of bombs. This makes her lighter already by 2888 kilos, providing an upward force of roughly 28,400 Newtons. That force is moving an object with a mass of 38,213 kilograms.

As you said, a = F/m. The LZ 18, after its bombing run, is already ascending at an acceleration of about three quarters of a meter a second, so at the end of the first minute she'll be moving at a good 44.59 meters per second. Let's say that our captain spies pursuing aircraft and decides to cut off some ballast to get himself out of danger. He drops a mere quarter of his ballast weights, sending his craft to being lighter by 4314 kilos. For reference, the Sophwith Camel has a climb rate of 5.5 meters per second at a speed of 185 kph. If the two start at a level atmosphere, in twenty seconds the Zeppelin will be 900 meters above the plane's starting altitude, in which time the plane will have climbed only 100 meters.

Realistically, a Zeppelin captain would have filled his cells with air to account for the fuel lost, so as to maintain steady flight. But the principle is the same. A military airship's lift is quite easily adjusted compared to a commercial version, as they don't have drawing rooms and hotel beds aboard, being day-mission vehicles. Even with only the light bombload gone, and an upwards force of 14,715 Newtons, the LZ 18 would be accelerating upwards at a good 22.29 meters per second, four times quicker than a very good WWI fighter plane.

So, even if we allow for your biplanes to be going very quickly coming out of their dives, quadrupling their rate of ascent to catch the Zeppelins, they'll still be slower than the Zeppelins, and shedding speed by the second.

Uhm, Remember the part where I mentioned air resistance?

Zeppelins have a shape of a cylinder... mostly. The volume of a cylinder equals:
Base times height (in this case, Height of the cylinder is the length of the ship). The LZ 18's length is 158 meters, from this we can tell the base:
27000/158=
Never mind, Wiki also tells us the diameter, 16.6 meters.
Now, The surface of the ship viewed from above is somewhere around 150*16 (I made it less to account for the decreased surface on the front and the back)
Then A=1500+900=2400 (This is not the actual surface, this is the surface that recieves pressure from the air above)

Another Thing we need for air resistance is density of surrounding air. This one is easy to tell because its (almost) the same as the airship's mass (Prior to release of the ballast, bombs) / Its volume .
41,100 kg / 27,000 m^3 =... Okay so how the hack did that airship even take off? I think empty weight already includes the weight of the hidrogen, even if that doesn't make sense... Now we have to redo the acceleration math. Never mind, lets say its 1 meter per sec . It doesn't actually matter in the end.
31,100/27k is round 1.15 (kg/m^3), More realistic.

Drag Coefficient of Cylinders is around 1.10 (though thats probably a little accurate given the airship's size and the rudders, engines and machine gun nests hanging out.)

Air resistance = Velocity * Velocity * Drag coeff * Surface * air density * 1/2 = 28880 Newtons (I take air density, Drag coeff and surface as constant. Then we can figure out maximum velocity)

Velocity * Velocity = 57760 /1.1 /2400 /1.15

V^2 = 19.0250329381

V = 4.358 meters per second thats 161.5 meters rise in one minute. Now, If the airship was higher up, It could ascend faster by about 2 meters per second.

(At 2000 meters air density is 1 kg/m^3)

Lets re-investigate climbing ability of planes.

Basically, Average climb rates stand for how fast can planes climb altitude on the long run. They can, however, go up faster then that temporarily if they have surplus impulse from diving down. If a plane has a speed of 70 meters per second and decides to pull up the plane's nose by 90 degrees (vertical flight.), It would take 7 seconds for it to completely stall and enter into a rather uncomfortable situation were the pilot can lose control of the plane for quiet some time. The plane would regardless climb 35*7=245 meters in 7 seconds, and thats not accounting for engine power that would propell the craft dozens of meters higher, Nor the air resistance, but the 2 balances out somewhere.

If the plane was to do a 20 degree climb for 20 seconds, While its airspeed reduces from 70 meters per second to 30 (average speed 40, given air resistance being strong early and weaker later) (I think its pretty realistic), then 0.34202014332*20*40=273 meters. Thats almost twice as much then what the puny airships have accomplished. Of course the planes can't climb any higher anytime soon.

[Harkback Union]

When does the new Era begin? Also I heard that there would be Ideoligies how would that work?

I dunno. I think we should stay in this era till the war is over.

I think it would make sense if There was no increase in Item cap this time. Instead, Anyone can choose an Item category where Items count as half towards item cap.

For instance, Militaristic Ideology would make armed forces count as half when counting them towards item cap.

[New Strausberg]

I'm back! Sorry the weekends are never good for me

[New Fraulasia]

I'm back! Sorry the weekends are never good for me

New Straus you're back! I missed you so!