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Yoite
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Founded: Sep 09, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Yoite » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:55 pm

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<NO PROBLEM IS INSOLUBLE IN ALL CONCEIVABLE CIRCUMSTANCES.> - Cosmic AC

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Liecthenbourg
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Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Liecthenbourg » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:56 pm

Yoite wrote:

Awww...
Impeach the Mayor of Lego City Legalise Falling into the River The Rescue Helicopter Needs to be Built! HEY!
Grand-Master of the Kyluminati


The Region of Kylaris
I'm just a simple Kylarite, trying to make my way on NS.

The Gaullican Republic,
I thank God for Three Things:
Kylaris, the death of Esquarium, and Prem <3

The Transtsabaran Federation and The Chistovodian Workers' State

To understand European history watch these: Cultural erosion, German and Italian history, a brief history of Germany.

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Terintania
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Postby Terintania » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:56 pm

Yoite wrote:

Silly kitties
Times are looking grim these days~

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Bearon
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Founded: Mar 04, 2013
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Postby Bearon » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:57 pm

Well Grey/The Lich's plot is very tied together with his hate for Mauro because of the abuse he suffered at the hands of its followers and thinking they destroyed the town and killed his son won't do much to relieve him of that loathing and while we now know it is not possible to kill a god The Lich/Grey won't know that and besides searching for a way to do so probably by going to the Angel for help his secondary goals will be killing those that align themselves with Mauro. If I did kill enough of his followers to make a dent in his numbers would he potentially smite me?
Nothing to see here. Move along.

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Conscentia
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Founded: Feb 04, 2011
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Postby Conscentia » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:01 pm

Bearon wrote:Well Grey/The Lich's plot is very tied together with his hate for Mauro because of the abuse he suffered at the hands of its followers and thinking they destroyed the town and killed his son won't do much to relieve him of that loathing and while we now know it is not possible to kill a god The Lich/Grey won't know that and besides searching for a way to do so probably by going to the Angel for help his secondary goals will be killing those that align themselves with Mauro. If I did kill enough of his followers to make a dent in his numbers would he potentially smite me?

I don't like the idea of gods directly interfering. I think the retribution should come from his cult.

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Great Empire of Gamilus
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Founded: Apr 08, 2013
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Postby Great Empire of Gamilus » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:03 pm

Conscentia wrote:
Bearon wrote:Well Grey/The Lich's plot is very tied together with his hate for Mauro because of the abuse he suffered at the hands of its followers and thinking they destroyed the town and killed his son won't do much to relieve him of that loathing and while we now know it is not possible to kill a god The Lich/Grey won't know that and besides searching for a way to do so probably by going to the Angel for help his secondary goals will be killing those that align themselves with Mauro. If I did kill enough of his followers to make a dent in his numbers would he potentially smite me?

I don't like the idea of gods directly interfering. I think the retribution should come from his cult.


Agreed, even Klast my Champion who believes he was fucked over my Mauro seeks to murder every one of his followers despite the fact that Klast himself does not know that Mauro actually supported him on the battlefield...
expect many tears and emotional stories.
Do you hear the posters sing?
Singing the song of angry men?
It is the music of the short OP
that won't be seen again!

When the mods find this OP
Then this thread will be no more,
But the song will be sung again
When another comes!

OP, do you know the way?
Know the way to fix your post?
Just add details and sources to spark
Debate on these forums.

Otherwise this thread is doomed
Doomed to death by modly wrath
NSG will pick up and move on
'Till another comes!

--The Klishi Islands
a thread on Theism and Atheism

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Bearon
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Founded: Mar 04, 2013
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Postby Bearon » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:03 pm

Conscentia wrote:
Bearon wrote:Well Grey/The Lich's plot is very tied together with his hate for Mauro because of the abuse he suffered at the hands of its followers and thinking they destroyed the town and killed his son won't do much to relieve him of that loathing and while we now know it is not possible to kill a god The Lich/Grey won't know that and besides searching for a way to do so probably by going to the Angel for help his secondary goals will be killing those that align themselves with Mauro. If I did kill enough of his followers to make a dent in his numbers would he potentially smite me?

I don't like the idea of gods directly interfering. I think the retribution should come from his cult.


I believe the same but I don't want to go against the wishes of the Co OP or OP.
Nothing to see here. Move along.

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Great Empire of Gamilus
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Founded: Apr 08, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Empire of Gamilus » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:04 pm

Yoite wrote:


Damn you win...
Do you hear the posters sing?
Singing the song of angry men?
It is the music of the short OP
that won't be seen again!

When the mods find this OP
Then this thread will be no more,
But the song will be sung again
When another comes!

OP, do you know the way?
Know the way to fix your post?
Just add details and sources to spark
Debate on these forums.

Otherwise this thread is doomed
Doomed to death by modly wrath
NSG will pick up and move on
'Till another comes!

--The Klishi Islands
a thread on Theism and Atheism

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The Batorys
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Posts: 5703
Founded: Oct 12, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby The Batorys » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:05 pm

Bearon wrote:
Yoite wrote:
If so, it's highly impractical. However, I would imagine not, since there are still Elder Gods that have not been worshiped in ages. Don't try.


Can I weaken gods by killing all their followers?

Lots of the gods are worshiped in multiple societies. This would be more effort than it would be worth. It would realistically also stand a good chance of drawing a deity into direct interference to smite the crap out of such a person. And, given that none of the player characters are gods themselves, that would be a bad plan for a character to attempt.

Another thing is that killing a gods' followers could be interpreted by some gods, perhaps elder ones, as blood sacrifice. This would piss off said god (who is already more powerful than any of the player characters, because we're not playing gods here) while also giving them a boost in power.

Currently gods can only be involved indirectly, because otherwise that would be unfair. However, I don't think it makes much sense that they'd stay uninvolved if you were directly attacking them.

So don't. It would essentially be game-breaking.
Mallorea and Riva should resign
This is an alternate history version of Callisdrun.
Here is the (incomplete) Factbook
Ask me about The Forgotten Lands!
Pro: Feminism, environmentalism, BLM, LGBTQUILTBAG, BDSM, unions, hyphy, Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Oakland, old San Francisco, the Alliance to Restore the Republic, and fully automated gay luxury space communism
Anti: Misogyny, fossil fuels, racism, homophobia, kink-shaming, capitalism, LA, Silicon Valley, techies, Brezhnev, the Galactic Empire, and the "alt-right"

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The Batorys
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Founded: Oct 12, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby The Batorys » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:06 pm

Elerian wrote:
Bearon wrote:
Can I weaken gods by killing all their followers?


If you mean to kill a bunch of followers of Mauros then save your breath. There are tens if not hundreds of thousands who worship him.

He even has enough worshipers in Felurin to have a temple there, and he's the least popular of the main pantheon in that country.
Mallorea and Riva should resign
This is an alternate history version of Callisdrun.
Here is the (incomplete) Factbook
Ask me about The Forgotten Lands!
Pro: Feminism, environmentalism, BLM, LGBTQUILTBAG, BDSM, unions, hyphy, Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Oakland, old San Francisco, the Alliance to Restore the Republic, and fully automated gay luxury space communism
Anti: Misogyny, fossil fuels, racism, homophobia, kink-shaming, capitalism, LA, Silicon Valley, techies, Brezhnev, the Galactic Empire, and the "alt-right"

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Bearon
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Posts: 11448
Founded: Mar 04, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Bearon » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:07 pm

The Batorys wrote:
Bearon wrote:
Can I weaken gods by killing all their followers?

Lots of the gods are worshiped in multiple societies. This would be more effort than it would be worth. It would realistically also stand a good chance of drawing a deity into direct interference to smite the crap out of such a person. And, given that none of the player characters are gods themselves, that would be a bad plan for a character to attempt.

Another thing is that killing a gods' followers could be interpreted by some gods, perhaps elder ones, as blood sacrifice. This would piss off said god (who is already more powerful than any of the player characters, because we're not playing gods here) while also giving them a boost in power.

Currently gods can only be involved indirectly, because otherwise that would be unfair. However, I don't think it makes much sense that they'd stay uninvolved if you were directly attacking them.

So don't. It would essentially be game-breaking.


That's if the gods are allowed to do that. There might be divine laws that prevent them from doing such things unless through use of an avatar or such.
Nothing to see here. Move along.

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Delmonte
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Posts: 1779
Founded: Oct 02, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Delmonte » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:09 pm

Bearon wrote:
Conscentia wrote:I don't like the idea of gods directly interfering. I think the retribution should come from his cult.


I believe the same but I don't want to go against the wishes of the Co OP or OP.

It has been established that God's can't interfere in that way. However, if you were enough of a nuisance to Mauro he could make it very clear to his followers that he wants you gone and give them various boons. It's notable that if you upset the balance enough through murder, you will not just be invoking Mary's ire but that of Vidia and Cerin as well. If you thought one god was bad...
[15:35] <Tag> I have a big, heavy sealed box that I have no idea what is in side of it.
[15:35] <Tag> I can only presume it is treasure.
The Batorys wrote:The Delmontese like money, yeah, but they also like to throw down.

<Delmonte> I don't mean literally kill their family. I mean kill their metaphorical family.
<Delmonte> Metaphorically kill their metaphorical family.
Code: Select all
 [b][color=#0000FF][background=red]United in Opposition to [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?t=303025]Liberate Haven[/url][/background][/color][/b]
[color=#FF0000][b]Mallorea and Riva should [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=303090]resign[/url][/b][/color]

The man from Delmonte says yes.

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The Batorys
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Founded: Oct 12, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby The Batorys » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:10 pm

Bearon wrote:
Liecthenbourg wrote: :palm: :palm: :palm:
I'm sure the moment the God/Goddess realises what you're doing (Omnipotent) you're dead.
Go ahead and try it, please. :p


Gods aren't allowed to directly interfere in mortal affairs like that.

Only because it's an OOC rule for the sake of not breaking the RP.

Trying to take advantage of that OOC rule IC is metagaming.

It's not reasonable to expect that a god in this universe would do nothing while being directly attacked.

In such a case, I would suggest that the OP or a co-OP temporarily RPs that god long enough to law the smack down on whichever character is being stupid enough to attack a god.

So yeah, possible, but incredibly stupid.
Mallorea and Riva should resign
This is an alternate history version of Callisdrun.
Here is the (incomplete) Factbook
Ask me about The Forgotten Lands!
Pro: Feminism, environmentalism, BLM, LGBTQUILTBAG, BDSM, unions, hyphy, Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Oakland, old San Francisco, the Alliance to Restore the Republic, and fully automated gay luxury space communism
Anti: Misogyny, fossil fuels, racism, homophobia, kink-shaming, capitalism, LA, Silicon Valley, techies, Brezhnev, the Galactic Empire, and the "alt-right"

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Bearon
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Founded: Mar 04, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Bearon » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:11 pm

Delmonte wrote:
Bearon wrote:
I believe the same but I don't want to go against the wishes of the Co OP or OP.

It has been established that God's can't interfere in that way. However, if you were enough of a nuisance to Mauro he could make it very clear to his followers that he wants you gone and give them various boons. It's notable that if you upset the balance enough through murder, you will not just be invoking Mary's ire but that of Vidia and Cerin as well. If you thought one god was bad...


As an avatar of the chaos god wouldn't that be what he'd want?
Nothing to see here. Move along.

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Bearon
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Founded: Mar 04, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Bearon » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:12 pm

The Batorys wrote:
Bearon wrote:
Gods aren't allowed to directly interfere in mortal affairs like that.

Only because it's an OOC rule for the sake of not breaking the RP.

Trying to take advantage of that OOC rule IC is metagaming.

It's not reasonable to expect that a god in this universe would do nothing while being directly attacked.

In such a case, I would suggest that the OP or a co-OP temporarily RPs that god long enough to law the smack down on whichever character is being stupid enough to attack a god.

So yeah, possible, but incredibly stupid.


Excuse me but did you just accuse me of Metagaming when I was simply asking what the gods could and would do?
Nothing to see here. Move along.

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The Batorys
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Founded: Oct 12, 2009
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Postby The Batorys » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:12 pm

Bearon wrote:
The Batorys wrote:Lots of the gods are worshiped in multiple societies. This would be more effort than it would be worth. It would realistically also stand a good chance of drawing a deity into direct interference to smite the crap out of such a person. And, given that none of the player characters are gods themselves, that would be a bad plan for a character to attempt.

Another thing is that killing a gods' followers could be interpreted by some gods, perhaps elder ones, as blood sacrifice. This would piss off said god (who is already more powerful than any of the player characters, because we're not playing gods here) while also giving them a boost in power.

Currently gods can only be involved indirectly, because otherwise that would be unfair. However, I don't think it makes much sense that they'd stay uninvolved if you were directly attacking them.

So don't. It would essentially be game-breaking.


That's if the gods are allowed to do that. There might be divine laws that prevent them from doing such things unless through use of an avatar or such.

IC, the main reason gods wouldn't want to get directly involved in things is that it would draw in other gods and lead to a big cluster fuck. Gods might be able to actually hurt other gods. So most of the time you would expect gods to work through mortal intermediaries.

A god getting directly attacked, though, wouldn't care about that, and would wipe the one doing the attacking off the face of the planet quite quickly. I suggest giving the OP the responsibility/power to make that happen in such a scenario.
Mallorea and Riva should resign
This is an alternate history version of Callisdrun.
Here is the (incomplete) Factbook
Ask me about The Forgotten Lands!
Pro: Feminism, environmentalism, BLM, LGBTQUILTBAG, BDSM, unions, hyphy, Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Oakland, old San Francisco, the Alliance to Restore the Republic, and fully automated gay luxury space communism
Anti: Misogyny, fossil fuels, racism, homophobia, kink-shaming, capitalism, LA, Silicon Valley, techies, Brezhnev, the Galactic Empire, and the "alt-right"

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Yoite
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Posts: 16985
Founded: Sep 09, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Yoite » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:13 pm

Bearon wrote:
The Batorys wrote:Only because it's an OOC rule for the sake of not breaking the RP.

Trying to take advantage of that OOC rule IC is metagaming.

It's not reasonable to expect that a god in this universe would do nothing while being directly attacked.

In such a case, I would suggest that the OP or a co-OP temporarily RPs that god long enough to law the smack down on whichever character is being stupid enough to attack a god.

So yeah, possible, but incredibly stupid.


Excuse me but did you just accuse me of Metagaming when I was simply asking what the gods could and would do?


Yes.
<NO PROBLEM IS INSOLUBLE IN ALL CONCEIVABLE CIRCUMSTANCES.> - Cosmic AC

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Terintania
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Posts: 12064
Founded: Mar 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Terintania » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:13 pm

Posting slowly....

Hard keeping up with a fast-paced RP and being in others at the same time :P
Times are looking grim these days~

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Bearon
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Posts: 11448
Founded: Mar 04, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Bearon » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:15 pm

The Batorys wrote:
Bearon wrote:
That's if the gods are allowed to do that. There might be divine laws that prevent them from doing such things unless through use of an avatar or such.

IC, the main reason gods wouldn't want to get directly involved in things is that it would draw in other gods and lead to a big cluster fuck. Gods might be able to actually hurt other gods. So most of the time you would expect gods to work through mortal intermediaries.

A god getting directly attacked, though, wouldn't care about that, and would wipe the one doing the attacking off the face of the planet quite quickly. I suggest giving the OP the responsibility/power to make that happen in such a scenario.


I don't believe they should be allowed to do that as that would be OP. I mean think about it the Overlord's endgame is to rule over the Earth which means no more worshippers for the gods. What are we going to do when it gets to that point?
Nothing to see here. Move along.

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The Batorys
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Founded: Oct 12, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby The Batorys » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:15 pm

Bearon wrote:
The Batorys wrote:Only because it's an OOC rule for the sake of not breaking the RP.

Trying to take advantage of that OOC rule IC is metagaming.

It's not reasonable to expect that a god in this universe would do nothing while being directly attacked.

In such a case, I would suggest that the OP or a co-OP temporarily RPs that god long enough to law the smack down on whichever character is being stupid enough to attack a god.

So yeah, possible, but incredibly stupid.


Excuse me but did you just accuse me of Metagaming when I was simply asking what the gods could and would do?

Yes.

Because that's exactly what you're doing.

Taking advantage of an OOC rule (one that exists to prevent game-breaking) to do IC stuff is metagaming. Especially when it's to do IC stuff that potentially game-breaking.
Mallorea and Riva should resign
This is an alternate history version of Callisdrun.
Here is the (incomplete) Factbook
Ask me about The Forgotten Lands!
Pro: Feminism, environmentalism, BLM, LGBTQUILTBAG, BDSM, unions, hyphy, Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Oakland, old San Francisco, the Alliance to Restore the Republic, and fully automated gay luxury space communism
Anti: Misogyny, fossil fuels, racism, homophobia, kink-shaming, capitalism, LA, Silicon Valley, techies, Brezhnev, the Galactic Empire, and the "alt-right"

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Bearon
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Posts: 11448
Founded: Mar 04, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Bearon » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:15 pm

Yoite wrote:
Bearon wrote:
Excuse me but did you just accuse me of Metagaming when I was simply asking what the gods could and would do?


Yes.


Well I'm sorry to tell you this but your accusation has no grounds and is false.

Edit: Metagaming is using OOC knowledge to your advantage. The Lich doesn't gain anything from this I'm just trying to further my story line and figure out what I can and can't do.
Last edited by Bearon on Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Nothing to see here. Move along.

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Yoite
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Posts: 16985
Founded: Sep 09, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Yoite » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:16 pm

Bearon wrote:
The Batorys wrote:IC, the main reason gods wouldn't want to get directly involved in things is that it would draw in other gods and lead to a big cluster fuck. Gods might be able to actually hurt other gods. So most of the time you would expect gods to work through mortal intermediaries.

A god getting directly attacked, though, wouldn't care about that, and would wipe the one doing the attacking off the face of the planet quite quickly. I suggest giving the OP the responsibility/power to make that happen in such a scenario.


I don't believe they should be allowed to do that as that would be OP. I mean think about it the Overlord's endgame is to rule over the Earth which means no more worshippers for the gods. What are we going to do when it gets to that point?


The Overlord isn't going to kill everyone, and people won't stop following Mauro. Even if he rules over all.
<NO PROBLEM IS INSOLUBLE IN ALL CONCEIVABLE CIRCUMSTANCES.> - Cosmic AC

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The Batorys
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5703
Founded: Oct 12, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby The Batorys » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:16 pm

Bearon wrote:
The Batorys wrote:IC, the main reason gods wouldn't want to get directly involved in things is that it would draw in other gods and lead to a big cluster fuck. Gods might be able to actually hurt other gods. So most of the time you would expect gods to work through mortal intermediaries.

A god getting directly attacked, though, wouldn't care about that, and would wipe the one doing the attacking off the face of the planet quite quickly. I suggest giving the OP the responsibility/power to make that happen in such a scenario.


I don't believe they should be allowed to do that as that would be OP. I mean think about it the Overlord's endgame is to rule over the Earth which means no more worshippers for the gods. What are we going to do when it gets to that point?

You're the one trying to kill gods through taking advantage of an OOC rule to prevent being OP... and you're complaining about others being OP?

Seriously?
Mallorea and Riva should resign
This is an alternate history version of Callisdrun.
Here is the (incomplete) Factbook
Ask me about The Forgotten Lands!
Pro: Feminism, environmentalism, BLM, LGBTQUILTBAG, BDSM, unions, hyphy, Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Oakland, old San Francisco, the Alliance to Restore the Republic, and fully automated gay luxury space communism
Anti: Misogyny, fossil fuels, racism, homophobia, kink-shaming, capitalism, LA, Silicon Valley, techies, Brezhnev, the Galactic Empire, and the "alt-right"

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Liecthenbourg
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Posts: 12971
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Liecthenbourg » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:16 pm

Terintania wrote:Posting slowly....

Hard keeping up with a fast-paced RP and being in others at the same time :P

Take your time. I'm sure it'll be a good post. :)
Impeach the Mayor of Lego City Legalise Falling into the River The Rescue Helicopter Needs to be Built! HEY!
Grand-Master of the Kyluminati


The Region of Kylaris
I'm just a simple Kylarite, trying to make my way on NS.

The Gaullican Republic,
I thank God for Three Things:
Kylaris, the death of Esquarium, and Prem <3

The Transtsabaran Federation and The Chistovodian Workers' State

To understand European history watch these: Cultural erosion, German and Italian history, a brief history of Germany.

User avatar
Bearon
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11448
Founded: Mar 04, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Bearon » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:17 pm

Yoite wrote:
Bearon wrote:
I don't believe they should be allowed to do that as that would be OP. I mean think about it the Overlord's endgame is to rule over the Earth which means no more worshippers for the gods. What are we going to do when it gets to that point?


The Overlord isn't going to kill everyone, and people won't stop following Mauro. Even if he rules over all.


That makes absolutely no sense you'll still let them worship gods under your rule?
Nothing to see here. Move along.

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