THE DEBATABLE LANDS (OOC/Sign-Ups) [Closed]

[The Grey Wolf]

Border Rievers? You have made Grey Wolf a very happy man.

Yes, yes he has.

Will get an app up soon. Haven't eaten all day.

[Nude East Ireland]

I'm actually working on a app. The first - and most difficult - bit is finding a suitable name.

"Leon".

"Leon Khan, King of the Debatable Lands".

[The Grey Wolf]

I happen to think so also. I hope you'll be able to join; I sure could use you.

I'm actually working on a app. The first - and most difficult - bit is finding a suitable name.

"Johnnie."

[Rupudska]

Excuse me while I board a rocket to find my pants, they appear to have departed for geosynchronous orbit.

You can consider this the place where my app is, for this is where I will edit it in.

Right after I read this behemoth.

[Aurinsula]

Somebody once told me that I only had three different male characters; another person told me that I actually only have one male character at three different life-stages. So I'll play a senora; there's more variety there.

APPLICATION

Name: Isobel Elliot, nee Jardine

Gender: F

Age: 24

Appearance: Isobel is not, as it were, beautiful; not on her own merits. She is too tall, and her figure is rather thick without being voluptuous. Her long tresses are an undistinguished brown, her eyes are a flat and dull green, and her face is long and sallow. When bereft of her fine clothes, she is utterly ignorable and barely sticks out of a crowd. She is, however, deviously skilled at the feminine art of beautification, and with clever use of powder and rouge and her fine clothes and jewels, she can become truly enchanting.

Powergrid Attributes: Intelligence 4, Strength and Durability 2, Speed and Fighting Skill 1. Her real talent is her keen intellect, which she has honed continuously over her life by any means available to her. She is illiterate, yes, but has a strong grasp of spacial reasoning and an excellent memory, and is even good at riddles. Her Strength and Durability come from the fact that she had a generally healthy and outdoorsy upbringing. As for speed and fighting skill, it's not like she's ever had to use either of them under duress, so they're naturally undeveloped.

Armor, Weapons, and Possessions: Various ephemera to do with the practice of witch-craft. By the standards of the Borders, she is usually very well-dressed and has several pieces of good jewelry; by the standards of the Border, she comes from aristocratic origins. She also possesses a finely-worked sgian dubh, which was a gift from her father and which she carries as a reminder that she must never absolutely trust anybody. Because her husband died without any children, she has kept most of his personal effects.

Personality: Vain, haughty, and maybe even stuck-up - all these curses can be flung at Isobel and land passing close to the mark. But moreso than that, she's also devious, ambitious, and scheming, with plots ever hatching in that head of hers. She is always calculating to her best advantage, and is sentimental for precious little except her own comfort and aggrandizement. It might please some people to imagine that the loss of her husband broke her heart and made her into the bitter, cold-hearted woman she is today, but this is a falsehood; the sad truth is that she's never been a particularly pleasant or warm-hearted person, even when he was alive.

Abilities and Talents: She possesses four major talents. In the first part, she is brilliant and can't hide it; if she had more formal education, she could be one of the most accomplished women of her age. In the second part, she is a witch - and quite a talented one at that. She is highly skilled in the art of potions and piseogs, and is substantially learned even beyond her abilities. In the third part, she is comfortable moving with a better and higher class of people, and can impress guests and hosts alike with her ability to pretend that she is a gracious, charming lady. In the fourth and final part, she has a bitter and cruel tongue, and is excellent at making people feel absolutely awful about themselves. People usually dislike her, but she nevertheless has a way of making them do what she wants.

Weaknesses and Fears: She grew up with servants, which means that she's quite simply not as good at the traditional feminine crafts as would be other women. She also can't really conceal the fact that she's not really a likeable or quality person; she has precious little moral fiber and every strand of it is devoted to her own sense of self-respect and dignity.

Likes (optional): The finer things in life. Since the loss of her husband, she has scorned affection and tenderness of heart in favor of power and security. She is also easily disturbed by muck, grime, or dirt; she's accustomed to finer surroundings than this.

Dislikes (optional): Vulnerability and paranoia. She regards others as either enemies or potential enemies, and is very cautious to never show any weakness to anybody.

Personal History:
The Clan Jardine makes its ranges about as far from the Clan Elliot as it's possible to get in the Borderlands, and their lack of overlapping claims means that the two clans have a long history of positive yet low-intensity relations. The Jardines are also quite wealthy, by local standards, and their good contacts with the burghers of the city of Langholm serve them in good stead. Some clans regard them as being dandyfied and effete, but they've never failed to prove their worth when honor calls them.

Isobel Jardine was born in 1543. Her father is Aidan Jardine, younger brother of the Laird of Jardine; her mother is Aileas Crozier, of the Clan Crozier. She was her parents' second daughter and third child overall, and by the standards of the Borderlands her upbringing was warm and nurturing. But even despite that, some people...

Some people see a rainbow, and there comes indwelling to them a sense of joy, of fullness, of peace with the world. Some people, to use a modern turn of phrase, get the warm fuzzies. If they believe in it, then they can feel the very love of God upon their hearts, and the world seems to them, for a little while at least, to be right in the end, and worth living in.

Isobel is not one of those people, and she never has been. There was no great storm of pathos on her, no moment of sturm und drang that changed her from a happy little girl into a sullen, joyless women. Perhaps something was done, or perhaps was not done, while she was a little baby too young to remember it; perhaps she really was born that way. But there's never been that spark of magic in her. Nothing made her this way, or at least nothing known; this is just who she is and who she's always been.

The Borderlands, as we know, were divided in those days into Marches, with March Wardens on each side of the border. Once a year, the March Wardens of England and Scotland would meet together for a Day of Truce, during which they generally settled scores and ensured that their troubles were kept to a minimum. As all the clans would gather together to make their points known, these Days of Truce were also days of celebration and feasting, when they could meet one another under the auspices of peace. Many a match was made, and many a babe conceived, during such a meeting, and it was at such a time that Isobel met Four-Fingers Tam, and the Day had barely ended when the two families had approved the marriage. They were wed on Michaelmas, 1560.

Their truce baby miscarried after four months, however, and all subsequent attempts ended in disaster. Her failure to give birth only aggravated her sour temper, but no matter how much she took out her frustrations on her husband, Tam only loved her the more and went to ever-greater heights to please her. His attempts, however tender-hearted and sincere, only frustrated her further, and only ended up making him more miserable.

Only Isobel knows for sure how culpable she was for her husband's death, but everybody knows for sure why Tam went and rustled those cattle - it was because he wanted some money to buy her the fine things that she felt, and had convinced him, were her due in this life. Nobody will ever forgive her, it seems, for the funeral of those four men, and the way she attended it - as ever in her life, stone-faced and flint-hearted. Her refusal to weep and wail is an insult that still rankles, two years later. She abides in Roger Elliot's house now, where she mostly keeps to herself.

[Zeinbrad]

Border Rievers? You have made Grey Wolf a very happy man.

Yes, yes he has.

Will get an app up soon. Haven't eaten all day.

I have a few things to say.

Norv and Grey you have inspired me to put a Border Riever like group in Ismere.

Also, know any suitable sources for helping me come up with an app? I have no idea about what it is like in this time period.

[Nude East Ireland]

APPLICATION

Name: "Clever" Duff Elliot

Gender: Male

Age: 20

Appearance: Five feet and ten inches tall; average build - some muscles here and there - but not a bodybuilder by any means; short red hair, well maintained and groomed for a Scot (shots fired); a red scruff; dark green eyes.

Powergrid Attributes:

INT - 4 (Genius)
By no means is he a scholar; he himself has never had a proper education. But despite this he is quite literate, learning the skill from Reverend Joseph Elliot. What he didn't learn from Elliot he picked up from books he acquired. The rest of his "education" came from observing the world around him; he had a knack for doing so. His interest in seeing just how things work has led him to earn his intelligence and his status as a smart man. But while he knows quite a bit, he also knows that there are things he has little to no experience in. That is, of course, where others come in handy.

STR - 1 (Weak/Average)
While he received training and combat experience, he has little desire to physically fight his opponents. He quite literally prefers a pen to a sword, though it does not stop him from keeping both within arm's reach.

DUR - 2 (Fit)
Keeping oneself physically able is always useful - even when bashing down doors and crushing skulls is not a man's primary objective.

SPD - 1 (Average)
Hussein Bolt he is not.

FS - 2 (Trained)
Despite not needing nor wanting to constantly fight in battle, he knows that having the ability to is the difference between life and death, should the need arise.

Armor, Weapons, and Possessions: He generally wears dark or neutral colours, in the form of robes. When he needs it, he has a set of armour he, er, "acquired" from an unlucky milk-drinker from the south. The armour has few scratches - quite frankly it hasn't seen much use beyond simple sparring matches and one or two skirmishes. The design of the armour, as well as his favoured sword, are pragmatic and simple to the point where it is barely worth noting their existence. He also possesses a dagger.

In addition to his clothes, he keeps his personal items in his small room. Mostly books and papers, as well as ink and pens - unfortunately, he does not find himself drafting letters and decrees often, but he devotes much of any given day to practicing his skills.

Personality: Soft-spoken and polite - at least that's what he acts like. Always regarded as a bit of a strange boy for valuing intelligence over physical prowess, it is no surprise that he views the vast majority of his peers and kinsmen with contempt. He would never reveal this, so keeps it to himself. Being a bit of a cynic and a pragmatic man, he believes that Clan Elliot cannot survive simply by keeping their heads down and fighting milk-drinkers. One day he hopes to change that. But until that day, he waits and observes.

Abilities and Talents: The fact that he is literate is proof enough that he is intelligent. He has an ability for observation that has led him to developing his skills. If he were to leave the Debatable Lands, he would become one of two things; 1.) a politician, or 2.) an actor. He knows better than anybody how to put on a fake smile. When he was young he did not shoot arrows or swing sticks like swords; he asked himself how much food one would have if they had four carts originally but gave two to a neighbouring clan to forge an alliance.

Weaknesses and Fears: Lacking in strength and eagerness to rip a man's genitals off is lacking in ability to live a prosperous life in the Debatable Lands; of this he is aware. But he does not fear battle, for he knows that the most intelligent option is to simply not become involved. He does fear death; most men do. To die is to lose everything he holds, namely his mind. He would rather cut down a burly, cross-eyed kinsman than face his demise. He is not a coward, or at least that's what he believes; he supports the idea that he could do so much good for his people were he to live.

Likes (optional): Books, intelligence, knowledge, and power.

Dislikes (optional): Stupidity, fighting, and death.

Personal History: Duff Elliot was born in 1547, on 10 September - otherwise known as "Black Saturday". For it was the day of his birth that the Duke of Somerset and his army of almost 17,000 defeated the Earl of Arran in the Battle of Pinkie Cleugh. And while it was not an event related to him, it was related to Scotland; Queen Mary was smuggled out of country and betrothed to the Dauphin of France. Many of the Scots blamed traitors within their own ranks for the defeat.

Growing up among warriors was not easy, nor was it ideal, for a child who would become a man of letters. Why he was not interested in such things as battle and honour is unknown to him; he believes that he is simply more intelligent than his kin. From his early age, he was very independent. Many regarded him as strange, perhaps leading to his hatred of his dim-witted kinsmen.

He claims to have killed an important English commander. It cannot be disproven, since he wears the deceased commander's armour. But the truth is that, while he did indeed kill the commander, it was not in a great battle in the moor. After sneaking into a small English camp past nightfall, he managed to discover the commander's tent. He made off with ink and pens, books, and a new set of armour - but not without slitting the neck of the armour's owner whilst he slept.

[Reverend Norv]

Yes, yes he has.

Will get an app up soon. Haven't eaten all day.

I have a few things to say.

Norv and Grey you have inspired me to put a Border Riever like group in Ismere.

Also, know any suitable sources for helping me come up with an app? I have no idea about what it is like in this time period.

Most of the research you should need is in the OP, and feel free to ask any remaining questions here; I'll just add them, answered, to the FAQs - and you will thereby edify everyone else in addition to yourself.

If the OP is truly insufficient, then here are some useful Wikipedia links: Border Reivers, the Debatable Lands, the Scottish Reformation (a good guide to the general political state of the British Isles at the time), and the Rough Wooing. Really, though, everything you need to gain a basic understanding of the period is in the OP.

EDIT: Wiki links are now in the FAQs.

[Reverend Norv]

Excuse me while I board a rocket to find my pants, they appear to have departed for geosynchronous orbit.

You can consider this the place where my app is, for this is where I will edit it in.

Right after I read this behemoth.

Great to have you aboard, Rup!

[Cylarn]

Would it be permissible for my character to have been forced into the ranks of the English or Scottish armies in lieu of being executed for his crimes? I read that many reivers had served with the English and Scottish armies, and that many more served as mercenaries.

[The Grey Wolf]

Yes, yes he has.

Will get an app up soon. Haven't eaten all day.

I have a few things to say.

Norv and Grey you have inspired me to put a Border Riever like group in Ismere.

Also, know any suitable sources for helping me come up with an app? I have no idea about what it is like in this time period.

Basically "steal shit from anyone who isn't related or has no ties to you," and "Hey! He just killed Uncle Johnnie! Let's get him! And his little dog too!"

This is a realist approach to the borders.
Also, this is one seriously pissed off bishop.

[Reverend Norv]

Duff and Isobel are both accepted. Interestingly, they both subvert the ordinary Borderer narrative in somewhat similar ways. I'd suggest just a few points to bear in mind.

One: Duff probably did not kill an important English military commander; Reivers mostly raided each other. Instead, perhaps he killed one of the sons of Thomas Dacre, the Warden of the English West Marches. The Dacres themselves were Reivers, but they were also closely tied to the English crown. Therefore, killing a Dacre has much the same import as killing an English commander, and it obviates the need to figure out what an English general was doing in the Debatable Lands in 1662-67.

Two: I like Isobel, but she cannot be that well accustomed to a better and higher class of people, or to surroundings that much finer than the Debatable Lands. The whole of the Borderlands were a grimy, dirty place, filled with rough men; wealth was measured in cattle alone from Carlisle to Newcastle. In some ways, this may make Isobel even more interesting - she has convinced herself that she deserves a way of life with which she was never actually personally acquainted. But it does have to be taken into account.

Third: if Isobel is indeed a powerful witch, then her capabilities will essentially be twofold. First, she will be able to brew potions of various kinds, using local vegetation and herbs. These potions can heal, poison, or alter the mind. They are not, strictly speaking, supernatural; rather, they are a kind of folk wisdom that gives a woman with a mortar and pestle all of the power that we moderns associate with advanced pharmacology. If a modern drug can do it, then Isobel can make a potion to do it.

Second, Isobel will have a strongly developed Second Sight; there was probably a magical mentor somewhere in her past, and the loss of her husband would have sharpened her gift. This allows Isobel to see and commune with all of the invisible creatures with whom the Elliots share the Border. Billy Blind and the gigelorums could help her spy on her neighbors, for example. With the help of the Green Man o the Wood, she could even cause trees to move, and with the help of the Fair Folk, she could steal children or kill a man in his sleep. But - and this is very important - any dealings with the more powerful spirits requires that Isobel pay a price; the Otherworlders do nothing for free. And the risks are terrible: the Fair Folk are only too ready to betray a mortal and break their bargain if they think that they can get away with it. So spying on your neighbors with Billy Blind is low-risk; striking a deal with the Green Man is dangerous; and trying to bargain with the Fair Folk is as lethally hazardous as any raiding foray across the border.

Now I will add the two of them to the Dramatis Personae, and suggest some relationships to the other characters in the appropriate section. Let me know if you think that my suggestions are appropriate.

[Nude East Ireland]

One: Duff probably did not kill an important English military commander; Reivers mostly raided each other. Instead, perhaps he killed one of the sons of Thomas Dacre, the Warden of the English West Marches. The Dacres themselves were Reivers, but they were also closely tied to the English crown. Therefore, killing a Dacre has much the same import as killing an English commander, and it obviates the need to figure out what an English general was doing in the Debatable Lands in 1662-67.

Alright.

[Zeinbrad]

I have a few things to say.

Norv and Grey you have inspired me to put a Border Riever like group in Ismere.

Also, know any suitable sources for helping me come up with an app? I have no idea about what it is like in this time period.

Basically "steal shit from anyone who isn't related or has no ties to you," and "Hey! He just killed Uncle Johnnie! Let's get him! And his little dog too!"

This is a realist approach to the borders.
Also, this is one seriously pissed off bishop.

I got to decide what to be. I'm imaging my guy as a guard of some kind closing a door and holding it shut as enemies try to break in.

For some reason.

[Reverend Norv]

Would it be permissible for my character to have been forced into the ranks of the English or Scottish armies in lieu of being executed for his crimes? I read that many reivers had served with the English and Scottish armies, and that many more served as mercenaries.

He may certainly have served in an army, though he would likely be sneered at by the other Elliots for having been so weak as to serve a king instead of fighting for his kin. The Reivers strongly - and probably rightly - felt that soldiers were incompetent by comparison to the Reivers: soldiers fight only when there is a war, but Reivers fight all the time. Anyway, for the purposes of this story, your fellow needs to start along with everyone else, as an Elliot at home in Harelaw. So if he ever was a soldier of the crown, then that time needs to have ended for him when our story begins.

[Reverend Norv]

I have a few things to say.

Norv and Grey you have inspired me to put a Border Riever like group in Ismere.

Also, know any suitable sources for helping me come up with an app? I have no idea about what it is like in this time period.

Basically "steal shit from anyone who isn't related or has no ties to you," and "Hey! He just killed Uncle Johnnie! Let's get him! And his little dog too!"

This is a realist approach to the borders.
Also, this is one seriously pissed off bishop.

I am adding these links to the FAQs.

[Cylarn]

Would it be permissible for my character to have been forced into the ranks of the English or Scottish armies in lieu of being executed for his crimes? I read that many reivers had served with the English and Scottish armies, and that many more served as mercenaries.

He may certainly have served in an army, though he would likely be sneered at by the other Elliots for having been so weak as to serve a king instead of fighting for his kin. The Reivers strongly - and probably rightly - felt that soldiers were incompetent by comparison to the Reivers: soldiers fight only when there is a war, but Reivers fight all the time. Anyway, for the purposes of this story, your fellow needs to start along with everyone else, as an Elliot at home in Harelaw. So if he ever was a soldier of the crown, then that time needs to have ended for him when our story begins.

I intend to have ended it. He was a Reiver, and he still considers himself to be a Reiver, having been a soldier out of necessity, in order to escape hanging and an early end to his life. He was 16 when he was forced into the ranks of the English army, where he served for 4 years until he decided to desert and seek out fame as a mercenary, before returning to the Debatable Lands in his mid-to-late-20s and taking up the mantle of Reiver once more.

[Reverend Norv]

He may certainly have served in an army, though he would likely be sneered at by the other Elliots for having been so weak as to serve a king instead of fighting for his kin. The Reivers strongly - and probably rightly - felt that soldiers were incompetent by comparison to the Reivers: soldiers fight only when there is a war, but Reivers fight all the time. Anyway, for the purposes of this story, your fellow needs to start along with everyone else, as an Elliot at home in Harelaw. So if he ever was a soldier of the crown, then that time needs to have ended for him when our story begins.

I intend to have ended it. He was a Reiver, and he still considers himself to be a Reiver, having been a soldier out of necessity, in order to escape hanging and an early end to his life. He was 16 when he was forced into the ranks of the English army, where he served for 4 years until he decided to desert and seek out fame as a mercenary, before returning to the Debatable Lands in his mid-to-late-20s and taking up the mantle of Reiver once more.

I'm not sure how much of the outside world I want to bring into this; the Border was very much a world unto itself. But if you make an app, I'll take that backstory under consideration. Sound reasonable?

[Cylarn]

I intend to have ended it. He was a Reiver, and he still considers himself to be a Reiver, having been a soldier out of necessity, in order to escape hanging and an early end to his life. He was 16 when he was forced into the ranks of the English army, where he served for 4 years until he decided to desert and seek out fame as a mercenary, before returning to the Debatable Lands in his mid-to-late-20s and taking up the mantle of Reiver once more.

I'm not sure how much of the outside world I want to bring into this; the Border was very much a world unto itself. But if you make an app, I'll take that backstory under consideration. Sound reasonable?

It won't be too crazy, and I understand if you wish to keep the outside world's involvement to a minimum. He hasn't traveled outside the Debatable Lands often since he turned 27.

[Reverend Norv]

I'm not sure how much of the outside world I want to bring into this; the Border was very much a world unto itself. But if you make an app, I'll take that backstory under consideration. Sound reasonable?

It won't be too crazy, and I understand if you wish to keep the outside world's involvement to a minimum. He hasn't traveled outside the Debatable Lands often since he turned 27.

Well, then, I look forward to seeing your app.

[Reverend Norv]

Dramatis Personae and Character Relationships are updated. NEI and Aurin, let me know if anything there seems wrong to you, and I will change it.

[Nude East Ireland]

Dramatis Personae and Character Relationships are updated. NEI and Aurin, let me know if anything there seems wrong to you, and I will change it.

It looks fine to me.

Good work, by the way. The effort put into this is quite spectacular.

[Reverend Norv]

Dramatis Personae and Character Relationships are updated. NEI and Aurin, let me know if anything there seems wrong to you, and I will change it.

It looks fine to me.

Good work, by the way. The effort put into this is quite spectacular.

Thank you, NEI. Here's hoping it pays off.

[The Grey Wolf]

APPLICATION

Name: Robert Eliott

Gender: ♂

Age: 36

Appearance:

Powergrid Attributes:

Intelligence: 3
Strength: 2
Endurance: 1
Speed: 1
Fighting Skill: 3

Armor, Weapons, and Possessions: A Prussian saber, Steel bonnet, A good deal of money, and light armor.

Personality: A tired man who has seen much bloodshed. The thing he desires most is to become a farmer, the constant fighting having taken a lot out of him. He gets aggravated when anyone brings up how old he has become.

Abilities and Talents: His wife is currently teaching him how to read (which is a rather hard task.) He has a good deal of experience, having witnessed commanders rise and fall to strategic success and tactical blunders.

Weaknesses and Fears: He has grown rather weak, suffering several injuries during his war record. He fears for his wife in the lawless lowlands, even though she assures him she will be fine as long as he is at her side.

Likes (optional): n/a

Dislikes (optional): n/a

Personal History:

A fiery youth even before he was born, Robert was energetic as a boy, getting into fierce fights with his playmates and returning home bloody and bruised. As he got older, his temper never seemed to get much better, although his mother tried to warn him to pick his battles carefully.

One day, he got into a fight with a Thomson over a girl, and ended up killing him (whether accidentally or intentionally he never said.) The murder was witnessed and the news reached the warden. Desperate to save him, Robert's family gave him a horse, a sword, and some clothes. They were afraid of not only the warden's men catching him, but also the Nixons, who the Thomsons were associated with.

Making his escape, Robert hopped on a ship headed for the mainland and became a mercenary to earn a living, selling his sword arm to the several bloody wars that always seemed to be popping up on the continent. The several years away from his family and the Borders took their toll on him, and he became more and more cool headed. He spent years saving up on his money, and after one war, married the daughter of a Prussian baron. Sixteen years during his stay on the continent, he received a letter from his family, telling him things were safe to return home now.

Happily, he hopped on a boat headed for Britain, and made his way to the old family farm with his new wife. Amazed to see him, his family embraced him. However, when he brought up the letter, they had no idea what he was talking about. None of them had sent the letter, and his brother, who had supposedly signed it, had been dead for four years (killed during a raiding party.)

Only being back home for a few days, Robert already knows that during his sixteen year exile, someone somewhere has not forgotten his actions.

[Zeinbrad]

Hey Grey, any idea on what I can be? Well anything besides a badass uber-warrior.