New Imperialism - AH RP v1.3 [OOC/Signup]

[Bujahla]

Thank god Allen is back. And sorry if I made some decisions that you didn't like, it was just that you were gone for a couple days.

[Conchabira]

Go ahead, I am allied with Britain and you have to cross the Amazon to even attack me.

@Hannover: Why? Why would Columbia intervene when we have friendly relations and your at war with the CSA and why risk pissing off Britain in a time like this?

Because there was a conference where we all agreed to not invade each other, to work together. That is why we hold these meetings? To voice our problems with each other so we avoid war among brothers and sisters.

Fine, since Buj is done with his Scandinavia war and hasn't gotten involved I will instead start the first stage of Building up to attack Iberia. And if we have this nice treaty why did Charcas go to war with Chile and you went to war with Mexico?

[Chihuahua y Tejas]

Because there was a conference where we all agreed to not invade each other, to work together. That is why we hold these meetings? To voice our problems with each other so we avoid war among brothers and sisters.

Fine, since Buj is done with his Scandinavia war and hasn't gotten involved I will instead start the first stage of Building up to attack Iberia. And if we have this nice treaty why did Charcas go to war with Chile and you went to war with Mexico?

Relations with Chile were poor prior to the Rio Conference. They were beyond repairable, unlike Brazil and Argentina who don't have a bitter feud in their past. Mexico was not in the Rio Conference, and they did attack Colombia first.

[Bujahla]

Because there was a conference where we all agreed to not invade each other, to work together. That is why we hold these meetings? To voice our problems with each other so we avoid war among brothers and sisters.

Fine, since Buj is done with his Scandinavia war and hasn't gotten involved I will instead start the first stage of Building up to attack Iberia. And if we have this nice treaty why did Charcas go to war with Chile and you went to war with Mexico?

South America is paradoxical. It looks like they are all friends and have these great anti-Europe treaties, but all have close relations with at least one European nation and have border disputes with every other one.

[The Grand Republic of Hannover]

What's the situation in Asia right now (ICly)?

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

Nah, there isn’t even a formal declaration of war from Sara so NeSA shouldn’t know about it.

Except he attacked a major harbor so logically 11 IC posts later the international community would be aware.

[Bujahla]

What's the situation in Asia right now (ICly)?

China - Stronk. Building industry. Friends with Britain.
Japan - Stronk. Controls lots of industries. Trade with all of Asia. Monopolized Siam's resources and infrastructure.
Russia - Stable but Reph will soon make unstable.
Mughals - Doing something to become frenchy
Siam - Essentially Japanese puppet state
Colonial territories - colonies

Also, the reason why I wanted Reph to post in two days was that he was loosing out the Great War by not posting for over a week despite originally winning by a good lead.

[Saragrossa]

Nah, there isn’t even a formal declaration of war from Sara so NeSA shouldn’t know about it.

Except he attacked a major harbor so logically 11 IC posts later the international community would be aware.

Umm, its a three prolonged attack that isn't even finished and you taking over another country just to directly intervene because you want to fuck around and your assuming our actions and skipping ahead our attack is different.

CSA hasn't responded to the attack yet and your mobilizing..

so edit your post accordingly.

CSA hasn't even gotten word of the attack to his president so sit down and wait your turn you, over reaching twat.

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

Umm, its a three prolonged attack that isn't even finished and you taking over another country just to directly intervene because you want to fuck around and your assuming our actions and skipping ahead our attack is different.

CSA hasn't responded to the attack yet and your mobilizing..

so edit your post accordingly.

CSA hasn't even gotten word of the attack to his president so sit down and wait your turn you, over reaching twat.

I based my post off of IC time. It has been a month or two since the attack now ICly. And I don't see what is so inflammatory about my posts that requires you to attempt to insult me every time you reply.

[Bujahla]

Umm, its a three prolonged attack that isn't even finished and you taking over another country just to directly intervene because you want to fuck around and your assuming our actions and skipping ahead our attack is different.

CSA hasn't responded to the attack yet and your mobilizing..

so edit your post accordingly.

CSA hasn't even gotten word of the attack to his president so sit down and wait your turn you, over reaching twat.

I based my post off of IC time. It has been a month or two since the attack now ICly. And I don't see what is so inflammatory about my posts that requires you to attempt to insult me every time you reply.

Has Lunas as the CSA even been accepted? I don't remember him being. If not, crap cause you let a full IC page pass. Perhaps a war thread could be necessary, but nah.

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

Has Lunas as the CSA even been accepted? I don't remember him being. If not, crap cause you let a full IC page pass. Perhaps a war thread could be necessary, but nah.

Or, if the three nations attacking reserve three posts one right after each other in the IC and then the CSA reserves one after them, the soulition would be resolvable and would result in a lot less controversy.

[Rephesus]

Actually Eurasia wouldn't. We won't be interning. Although nearly the entire Eurasian Navy is in the Strait Zone so I highly suggests no one does anything radical.

[The Grand Republic of Hannover]

Question:

So Colombia has a very close economic alliance with Eurasia, but Rep seems to be pretty indifferent to any international dealing, so my question is: since I am looking for investment for El Cerrejon, does Rep need to mention it ICly or can I just RP that the Russians are investing?

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

Question:

So Colombia has a very close economic alliance with Eurasia, but Rep seems to be pretty indifferent to any international dealing, so my question is: since I am looking for investment for El Cerrejon, does Rep need to mention it ICly or can I just RP that the Russians are investing?

Did Buj give you money before as Eurasia?

[Bujahla]

Question:

So Colombia has a very close economic alliance with Eurasia, but Rep seems to be pretty indifferent to any international dealing, so my question is: since I am looking for investment for El Cerrejon, does Rep need to mention it ICly or can I just RP that the Russians are investing?

Reph not interested in international stuff? Someone isn't RPing Witte right....

Anyhow, ask him but you should just be able to assume it with his permission.

[Rephesus]

Question:

So Colombia has a very close economic alliance with Eurasia, but Rep seems to be pretty indifferent to any international dealing, so my question is: since I am looking for investment for El Cerrejon, does Rep need to mention it ICly or can I just RP that the Russians are investing?

Reph not interested in international stuff? Someone isn't RPing Witte right....

Anyhow, ask him but you should just be able to assume it with his permission.

Well when I'm done my post you'll understand why.

[The Grand Republic of Hannover]

Question:

So Colombia has a very close economic alliance with Eurasia, but Rep seems to be pretty indifferent to any international dealing, so my question is: since I am looking for investment for El Cerrejon, does Rep need to mention it ICly or can I just RP that the Russians are investing?

Reph not interested in international stuff? Someone isn't RPing Witte right....

Anyhow, ask him but you should just be able to assume it with his permission.

Oh ok. I mean, I already asked him and he has ignored my TG, so I guess that's a no.

Would anyone be interested in investing in El Cerrejon?

[Alleniana]

Actually, just saw this:;
The French moved quickly, disembarking 24,000 men of the Toulouse Legion near Izmir, who quickly marched to stabilize the new borders of the International Zone, conveniently patrolled by the Eurasian Federation. Companies throughout France, encouraged by government-offered incentives, quickly rushed to the opportunity, investing widely throughout the Republic, while the Banque Nationale extended a line of credit to the Turkish government. Finally, as a sign of friendship, the Chicago Union was licensed by the French government to produce brand-new warships for the under-armed Turkish fleet.

1. They'll fight the legion, because:

2. They don't let you invest; they don't want enemies

3. What do they want a line of credit for? They can get all the few loans they need from the Mughals, or hell, even Arabia; they don't need any significant amount

4. Under-armed? I'd say that if you use a sort of population/size:navy quality ratio, that the Turkish fleet is better than the British one.

I'm not sure why people keep assuming Turkey will be anything but hostile to the people that just robbed it of land that's equivalent to the whole Provnce & Burgundy region of France, or Portugal for Iberia.

1) No they won't. Fighting the legion means fighting Eurasia, Italy, Greece, and France, and that means their utter destruction.

2) Investment suddenly means enemies? I'm not sure how you get that -- but the French investments are intended to build French-Turkish ties overall, to shore up the inevitable political ties that will occur.

3) It's a sign of faith and support in the Turkish government, allowing them to distract the people with whatever bread and circuses they need while restoring the stability (explained below) in the nation.

4) France wants to make sure Turkey can stand up to the Italians (or at least give them a good fight). Compared to the mass/tonnage of any of the major powers, Turkey's fleet is not nearly large enough --- and Italy's been exceedingly aggressive in the Near East in the recent past, so France is protecting both their interests, the international zone, and a relatively neutral nation simultaneously.

As for your two scenarios, let's outline them:

• Turkey refuses Straits Treaty, Declares War -- Let us assume that Turkey refuses to sign the straits treaty, and declares war, outraged at this violation of their sovereignty.
  
  Well, first of all, war on whom? If they attack Greece, then they're at war with Eurasia, Italy, France, and Greece. If they attack the International Zone (and thus Russia/France), they're at war with Greece, Eurasia, Italy, and France. If they attack Assyria, they're at war with Eurasia, Italy, France, and Greece. No matter where they strike, they violate the International Zone agreement, forcing all signatories (with the exception of the Dutch -- neutral observer and all that) to come to the defense of the Straits against their previous owner.
  
  I think we can all agree that Turkey would have less than a snowball's chance in Hell if they went to war with Eurasia, Greece, Italy, and France. Italy would strike from the south, Eurasia would strike from the Caucasus and from Constantinople, while Greece and France would launch amphibious landings (or at least France would; I assume Greece would sit back and watch the destruction of their major rival with popcorn and possibly s'mores). Against three world powers, no matter how well equipped the Turkish fleet or army is, they don't have a chance -- especially because, and let's remember this:
  
  Turkey wasn't going to survive.
  
  Seriously. In the Sevastopol Conference, Italy, Greece, and Eurasia were planning on divvying up Turkey into spheres or territories, a la China after the Opium Wars. Italy and Greece were staunchly in favor, Eurasia raised no objections, and if they had had their way, Turkey would no longer exist at this point, and would instead be another colonial conquest. Why isn't that the case?
  
  Because France stopped them. Without France's diplomatic intervention, Turkey would not exist -- and the Turkish delegation was at least nominally there, so they should know this, at least through whispers and rumors, if not outright stated -- France would have leaked it through a third party member so Turkey was appropriately grateful at France's defense (and horribly angry at Italy, Eurasia, and Greece). If Turkey then goes and declares war on the signatories of the International Zone, French support vanishes, and Turkey gets divvied up. They have nothing to save them; their terrain has been conquered half a million times (so no Afghanistan there), they're a relatively secular Republic, so no fanaticism there, their only major ally, the Mughals, are allied to Eurasia and France, so they won't save Turkey if Turkey's so blinded as to go to war.
  
  Essentially, if you make Turkey do this, Turkey vanishes off the map, to be replaced by more red, green, and blue.
  
• Turkey reluctant accepts Straits Treaty, Returns home -- Let's assume Turkey accepts the straits treaty, or at least the government does, reluctantly realizing the fate that awaits them.
  
  Their people are outraged and fiercely nationalist, demanding their government do something about the dishonor and loss of land forced upon them. If the government accedes, we return to situation one, and the disappearance of Turkey. If the government doesn't agree, and stands against the nationalist fervor sweeping Turkey, then we get two further situations.
  
  1) The people rebel, attempt to overthrow the government that lost them their territory -- in which case, Turkey enters that period of instability that you said they were not in (which was part of the confusion), as they're undergoing a civil war, or at least a large degree of revolt risk/civil unrest. If Turkey is unstable, they're turned inwards, then outside troops (while unwelcomed by the people) will be welcomed by the government, helping them squash the more major rebellions or tenacious regions. If the people succeed, then they overthrow the government, attempt to throw the foreigners out of the nation, and attack the straits zone -- bringing us back to situation one and the destruction of Turkey.
  
  2) The people either rebel or are seriously unhappy, but the government's got it under control. In this event, French investment provides jerbs for the poor (and there are always poor, especially at this time), France's line of credit from the Banque Nationale allows the government to fund some roadbuilding or infrastructure investment that provides more jobs --- or does some flashy thing that distracts people with circuses -- or just pays off corrupt officials to keep the people as happy as they can. Either way, French troops maintain security, train with the Turkish troops to get them up to a higher quality/training; French investments and loans (long-term) allow for Turkey's government to survive; the people, while unhappy and annoyed, are soothed slowly by constant bribery, investments, and the threat of being squashed if they try to rebel.

Also, as to your questions--

I like the admin account, it's nice and centralized, and allows the co-ops to update the general roster and stuff while leaving you free to make events and rulings and whatnot.

I think a two week deadline to post is sufficient, but the person should be TGed/notified/etc long before then.

1) Better than being utterly humiliated. The loss of those territories would be enough to destabilise the country that it is either propped up and becomes a puppet, or collapses entirely.

2) They don't want enemies investing, is what I mean. Any nation that attempts to enforce the Straits treaty is an enemy.

3) Mhm, I'll leave it since it hinges on acceptance.

4) Their interests kind of lie in not being dismantled by foreigners.

Let's suppose they accept.

Well, what'll happen is the delegation will get lynched along with various other public/government figures, there'll be riots in the streets, outright rebellion in the zone, assassination of other public/government figures, and a breakdown of social fabric. People will take to arms and the streets, the government will lose all credibility, and amidst this, crackpot dictators and warlords will of course spring up, and the country will dissolve. Hardly anything to want, is it?

The thing is, Turkish democracy is essentially populist. Whatever desire sweeps the populace will be entirely impossible to keep from happening; the government doesn't govern, it's simply a personification. And therein lies the problem; nationalists are not realists by nature, and certainly here they are not. Without altering the political landscape or finding some other genius way of dealing with it, it's impossible for them to accept.

This is why I want to play Turkey, though; there are wise heads, but an NPC can't negotiate; it can't ask for better terms or ask for more time or look for allies. If France were to adopt Turkey as a damn-well near dominion, they would still see it better than the Straits treaty. And who knows? Maybe the Dutch, or the Italians, or someone out there would do that. Or maybe some nation out there would champion their cause, or hell, maybe they can even fight well enough. Certainly, the Straits zone won't achieve zilch in stability terms if the people there are nationalists Turks pissed at life and the powers that be, namely Straits Treaty signatories.

There's also the fact that people seem to be mostly ignoring the instability. But anyway, you're being more reasonable than most of the people I've talked to about it so far, so

And thanks for the answers to the other questions.

Did Buj wage war with Scandinavia?

[Mishmahig]

Except he attacked a major harbor so logically 11 IC posts later the international community would be aware.

Umm, its a three prolonged attack that isn't even finished and you taking over another country just to directly intervene because you want to fuck around and your assuming our actions and skipping ahead our attack is different.

CSA hasn't responded to the attack yet and your mobilizing..

so edit your post accordingly.

CSA hasn't even gotten word of the attack to his president so sit down and wait your turn you, over reaching twat.

You, my friend, need to calm down and relax.

Reph not interested in international stuff? Someone isn't RPing Witte right....

Anyhow, ask him but you should just be able to assume it with his permission.

Oh ok. I mean, I already asked him and he has ignored my TG, so I guess that's a no.

Would anyone be interested in investing in El Cerrejon?

Oh, the something in this is too good to be true. I don't know if it's irony or hypocrisy or what, but it's delicious.

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

Oh ok. I mean, I already asked him and he has ignored my TG, so I guess that's a no.

Would anyone be interested in investing in El Cerrejon?

I mean the Robber Barons of NeSA likely will if they stand to make lots of money.

If you'd like I can get you a list of their names (I'll be using some of the real ones of the time and some fictional ones based on the various states of my country) and you can send some of them a letter asking for an investment.

What exactly is El Cerrejon and how would investors profit?

[Alleniana]

Thank god Allen is back. And sorry if I made some decisions that you didn't like, it was just that you were gone for a couple days.

No prob. Thanks for doing stuff.

Did you see the big officially thingybob I posted? Outlines most of the stuff that I'd like to get fixed.

[The Time Alliance]

Who is NeSA?

[Rephesus]

The Eurasian Army won't be marching for quite some time.

[Bujahla]

1) No they won't. Fighting the legion means fighting Eurasia, Italy, Greece, and France, and that means their utter destruction.

2) Investment suddenly means enemies? I'm not sure how you get that -- but the French investments are intended to build French-Turkish ties overall, to shore up the inevitable political ties that will occur.

3) It's a sign of faith and support in the Turkish government, allowing them to distract the people with whatever bread and circuses they need while restoring the stability (explained below) in the nation.

4) France wants to make sure Turkey can stand up to the Italians (or at least give them a good fight). Compared to the mass/tonnage of any of the major powers, Turkey's fleet is not nearly large enough --- and Italy's been exceedingly aggressive in the Near East in the recent past, so France is protecting both their interests, the international zone, and a relatively neutral nation simultaneously.

As for your two scenarios, let's outline them:

• Turkey refuses Straits Treaty, Declares War -- Let us assume that Turkey refuses to sign the straits treaty, and declares war, outraged at this violation of their sovereignty.
  
  Well, first of all, war on whom? If they attack Greece, then they're at war with Eurasia, Italy, France, and Greece. If they attack the International Zone (and thus Russia/France), they're at war with Greece, Eurasia, Italy, and France. If they attack Assyria, they're at war with Eurasia, Italy, France, and Greece. No matter where they strike, they violate the International Zone agreement, forcing all signatories (with the exception of the Dutch -- neutral observer and all that) to come to the defense of the Straits against their previous owner.
  
  I think we can all agree that Turkey would have less than a snowball's chance in Hell if they went to war with Eurasia, Greece, Italy, and France. Italy would strike from the south, Eurasia would strike from the Caucasus and from Constantinople, while Greece and France would launch amphibious landings (or at least France would; I assume Greece would sit back and watch the destruction of their major rival with popcorn and possibly s'mores). Against three world powers, no matter how well equipped the Turkish fleet or army is, they don't have a chance -- especially because, and let's remember this:
  
  Turkey wasn't going to survive.
  
  Seriously. In the Sevastopol Conference, Italy, Greece, and Eurasia were planning on divvying up Turkey into spheres or territories, a la China after the Opium Wars. Italy and Greece were staunchly in favor, Eurasia raised no objections, and if they had had their way, Turkey would no longer exist at this point, and would instead be another colonial conquest. Why isn't that the case?
  
  Because France stopped them. Without France's diplomatic intervention, Turkey would not exist -- and the Turkish delegation was at least nominally there, so they should know this, at least through whispers and rumors, if not outright stated -- France would have leaked it through a third party member so Turkey was appropriately grateful at France's defense (and horribly angry at Italy, Eurasia, and Greece). If Turkey then goes and declares war on the signatories of the International Zone, French support vanishes, and Turkey gets divvied up. They have nothing to save them; their terrain has been conquered half a million times (so no Afghanistan there), they're a relatively secular Republic, so no fanaticism there, their only major ally, the Mughals, are allied to Eurasia and France, so they won't save Turkey if Turkey's so blinded as to go to war.
  
  Essentially, if you make Turkey do this, Turkey vanishes off the map, to be replaced by more red, green, and blue.
  
• Turkey reluctant accepts Straits Treaty, Returns home -- Let's assume Turkey accepts the straits treaty, or at least the government does, reluctantly realizing the fate that awaits them.
  
  Their people are outraged and fiercely nationalist, demanding their government do something about the dishonor and loss of land forced upon them. If the government accedes, we return to situation one, and the disappearance of Turkey. If the government doesn't agree, and stands against the nationalist fervor sweeping Turkey, then we get two further situations.
  
  1) The people rebel, attempt to overthrow the government that lost them their territory -- in which case, Turkey enters that period of instability that you said they were not in (which was part of the confusion), as they're undergoing a civil war, or at least a large degree of revolt risk/civil unrest. If Turkey is unstable, they're turned inwards, then outside troops (while unwelcomed by the people) will be welcomed by the government, helping them squash the more major rebellions or tenacious regions. If the people succeed, then they overthrow the government, attempt to throw the foreigners out of the nation, and attack the straits zone -- bringing us back to situation one and the destruction of Turkey.
  
  2) The people either rebel or are seriously unhappy, but the government's got it under control. In this event, French investment provides jerbs for the poor (and there are always poor, especially at this time), France's line of credit from the Banque Nationale allows the government to fund some roadbuilding or infrastructure investment that provides more jobs --- or does some flashy thing that distracts people with circuses -- or just pays off corrupt officials to keep the people as happy as they can. Either way, French troops maintain security, train with the Turkish troops to get them up to a higher quality/training; French investments and loans (long-term) allow for Turkey's government to survive; the people, while unhappy and annoyed, are soothed slowly by constant bribery, investments, and the threat of being squashed if they try to rebel.

Also, as to your questions--

I like the admin account, it's nice and centralized, and allows the co-ops to update the general roster and stuff while leaving you free to make events and rulings and whatnot.

I think a two week deadline to post is sufficient, but the person should be TGed/notified/etc long before then.

1) Better than being utterly humiliated. The loss of those territories would be enough to destabilise the country that it is either propped up and becomes a puppet, or collapses entirely.

2) They don't want enemies investing, is what I mean. Any nation that attempts to enforce the Straits treaty is an enemy.

3) Mhm, I'll leave it since it hinges on acceptance.

4) Their interests kind of lie in not being dismantled by foreigners.

Let's suppose they accept.

Well, what'll happen is the delegation will get lynched along with various other public/government figures, there'll be riots in the streets, outright rebellion in the zone, assassination of other public/government figures, and a breakdown of social fabric. People will take to arms and the streets, the government will lose all credibility, and amidst this, crackpot dictators and warlords will of course spring up, and the country will dissolve. Hardly anything to want, is it?

The thing is, Turkish democracy is essentially populist. Whatever desire sweeps the populace will be entirely impossible to keep from happening; the government doesn't govern, it's simply a personification. And therein lies the problem; nationalists are not realists by nature, and certainly here they are not. Without altering the political landscape or finding some other genius way of dealing with it, it's impossible for them to accept.

This is why I want to play Turkey, though; there are wise heads, but an NPC can't negotiate; it can't ask for better terms or ask for more time or look for allies. If France were to adopt Turkey as a damn-well near dominion, they would still see it better than the Straits treaty. And who knows? Maybe the Dutch, or the Italians, or someone out there would do that. Or maybe some nation out there would champion their cause, or hell, maybe they can even fight well enough. Certainly, the Straits zone won't achieve zilch in stability terms if the people there are nationalists Turks pissed at life and the powers that be, namely Straits Treaty signatories.

There's also the fact that people seem to be mostly ignoring the instability. But anyway, you're being more reasonable than most of the people I've talked to about it so far, so

And thanks for the answers to the other questions.

Did Buj wage war with Scandinavia?

Buj won war that became larger than I thought and now UKSN is going to be unstable hell hole for a while. Britain has yet to have a domain

[Mishmahig]

Oh ok. I mean, I already asked him and he has ignored my TG, so I guess that's a no.

Would anyone be interested in investing in El Cerrejon?

I mean the Robber Barons of NeSA likely will if they stand to make lots of money.

If you'd like I can get you a list of their names (I'll be using some of the real ones of the time and some fictional ones based on the various states of my country) and you can send some of them a letter asking for an investment.

What exactly is El Cerrejon and how would investors profit?

El Cerrejon

Thank god Allen is back. And sorry if I made some decisions that you didn't like, it was just that you were gone for a couple days.

No prob. Thanks for doing stuff.

Did you see the big officially thingybob I posted? Outlines most of the stuff that I'd like to get fixed.

I'll post a response to your response (but I'm glad we're able to talk calmly -- perhaps we can work out some interesting arc/changes?) -- give me an hour or so.

Who is NeSA?

North Eastern States of America.

Canada/New England. Brownish tan blob.