A New World: 2015 (Alt History/Open/OOC)

[Unimutani]

Your right...




How could I ever think that? It's clear you never had any imperialistic thoughts outside of your hemisphere.

You didn't read the context, I assume? The African player was going to meta his claims to exclude a couple interior territories then just take them by force, thus circumventing the territory claim limit. That was just to demonstrate that two could play the meta game.

Also, Indian got the wrong idea, as I never even responded to his request for troops. I had no intention of going to Africa.

I'm watching you.

[Ptolemais]

I'm watching you.

I'm sure a lot of people are

[Cymrea]

Yeah, that's kind of a common issue with these maps.

So, just curious, is Cambria feeling a bit like bringing back the Empire?

If that means some Australia and New Zealand action, maybe some Fiji...then YES.

[Ptolemais]

If that means some Australia and New Zealand action, maybe some Fiji...then YES.

Lame, be less concerned about the Pacific. I'd like to keep those regions in my orbit

Hispanic Empire may be looking to go round 2 for Falklands.

[Bolovia]

If that means some Australia and New Zealand action, maybe some Fiji...then YES.

Lame, be less concerned about the Pacific. I'd like to keep those regions in my orbit

Hispanic Empire may be looking to go round 2 for Falklands.

Hell yes

[Ptolemais]

Eh, Unimutani, you're about 5-10 years ahead of yourself. That Dam isn't expected to be built until 2020-2025.

[Unimutani]

*DELETED*

(See Below)

[Unimutani]

Eh, Unimutani, you're about 5-10 years ahead of yourself. That Dam isn't expected to be built until 2020-2025.

I would be... except, the DR Congo minus 50+ years of mismanagement and with the backing of a national government with a $780 billion budget is in a much stronger position... I think I can safely safe the dam could have been built.




ALSO. WHOEVER MAKES THE MAP.

I own the Democratic Republic of The Congo and Uganda too.

[Ptolemais]

Eh, Unimutani, you're about 5-10 years ahead of yourself. That Dam isn't expected to be built until 2020-2025.

I would be... except, the DR Congo minus 50+ years of mismanagement and with the backing of a national government with a $780 billion budget is in a much stronger position... I think I can safely safe the dam could have been built.

Eh, how did you come up with that big of a budget? I'd hate to see what you think your GDP is...

Africa is a mess not only because of terrible management, but because it is so divisive. Even in countries, there are dozens of tribes vying for power. I'm sure you've improved the situation, but you still are late industrializing and not going to extremely affluent.

I've been doing everything based on RL timelines, otherwise i'd just claim that since the Empire of Japan never collapsed and we've focused on Naval technology that we have shipboard railguns by now.

[Ptolemais]

ALSO. WHOEVER MAKES THE MAP.

I own the Democratic Republic of The Congo and Uganda too.

DR Congo and Uganda were not part of your approved claim, so they are not on the map.

[Unimutani]

I would be... except, the DR Congo minus 50+ years of mismanagement and with the backing of a national government with a $780 billion budget is in a much stronger position... I think I can safely safe the dam could have been built.

Eh, how did you come up with that big of a budget? I'd hate to see what you think your GDP is...

Africa is a mess not only because of terrible management, but because it is so divisive. Even in countries, there are dozens of tribes vying for power. I'm sure you've improved the situation, but you still are late industrializing and not going to extremely affluent.

I've been doing everything based on RL timelines, otherwise i'd just claim that since the Empire of Japan never collapsed and we've focused on Naval technology that we have shipboard railguns by now.

My timelines are fair and accurate, but diverged after the 1960s. In my timeline, key people like Patrice Lumumba (he nearly united the DR Congo before he was killed in an assassination organized by western powers) and Halie Selassie were effective in pushing for a pan-African alliance. The result gave way to the UAR. Here's the thing. I'm claiming my average GDP per capita is around $12,000. Some African nations today manage that, so it'd be ridiculous to assume I can't replicate it in the UAR. With 316 million people in my borders, a $3.85 trillion dollar economy is not so far fetched.

I've already spoken with the OP, and I don't see how I'm being to outlandish. Africa is divisive, true, yet as nations like Botswana, Kenya, Ethiopia, South Africa, etc prove in real life, its fully possible for African states to progress. Yes, the UAR has experienced a Civil War and multiple insurgencies from tribal fighting, but we're talking about people who've co-existed (in many ways peacefully) for centuries before Europe. If the US, India, and many other culturally diverse regions of the world can do it, so can Africa.

EDIT: For the record, I'm not trying to be irrealistically difficult, but in the same way that Saudi Arabia has matured into a thriving nation, the wonders of countries free of foreign tampering can surprise you.

[Unimutani]

ALSO. WHOEVER MAKES THE MAP.

I own the Democratic Republic of The Congo and Uganda too.

DR Congo and Uganda were not part of your approved claim, so they are not on the map.

Except it was.

REPOST WITH EDITS:: Since I don't have Ethiopia or Eritrea, I took the DR of Congo and Uganda...

Accepted

[Ptolemais]

My timelines are fair and accurate, but diverged after the 1960s. In my timeline, key people like Patrice Lumumba (he nearly united the DR Congo before he was killed in an assassination organized by western powers) and Halie Selassie were effective in pushing for a pan-African alliance. The result gave way to the UAR. Here's the thing. I'm claiming my average GDP per capita is around $12,000. Some African nations today manage that, so it'd be ridiculous to assume I can't replicate it in the UAR. With 316 million people in my borders, a $3.85 trillion dollar economy is not so far fetched.

I've already spoken with the OP, and I don't see how I'm being to outlandish. Africa is divisive, true, yet as nations like Botswana, Kenya, Ethiopia, South Africa, etc prove in real life, its fully possible for African states to progress. Yes, the UAR has experienced a Civil War and multiple insurgencies from tribal fighting, but we're talking about people who've co-existed (in many ways peacefully) for centuries before Europe. If the US, India, and many other culturally diverse regions of the world can do it, so can Africa.

Adding all your territories together, I get just under 450billion. There is no way that you could grow your economy by over 850% in one of the least homogeneous regions of the world in 50 years. In this RP, that would make you the world's 3rd largest economy. That's not happening, Winovia must have overlooked that.

Maybe I should increase the Empire of Japan's GDP by about 500% to represent industrializing Indonesia and the Philippines?

Alright, done the math, since Empire of Japan spent comparable time industrializing Indonesia and Philippines i've increased their GDP by 500%. The Empire of Japan now has a GDP of 11.75trillion making it (probably) the largest in the world.

EDIT: I'm not trying to give you an overly hard time either, it's just every one of these RP's people pick the least developed countries and then miraculously turn them into top economic powerhouses as if the developed countries were just throwing capital at them to give them economic independence. I also feel a bit cheated, since I used exact RL numbers, I was unaware we could increase them significantly to account for alt-history development, otherwise I have a list of reasons why Empire of Japan should be significantly higher.

Except it was.

Point taken, that was not in my list of updates Winovia provided me last night.

[Winovia]

OP Annoucement
If IRL your nations GDP is only $1.5 Trillion, it can not magically become $14.9 Trillion. I don't care how much industrialization or modernization you do, you have to remain realistic with your stats. Thats like me saying my GDP is $45 Trillion, which is triple of the IRL US, but I'm only have of the nation.

Nations by Economic Rank
1. Republic of America
2. Japan
3. Cambria
4. Allied States
5. Russia
6. Northern Hegemony
7. Scandinavia
8. Hispanic Republic
9. Central America
10. UAR

[Unimutani]

OP Annoucement
If IRL your nations GDP is only $1.5 Trillion, it can not magically become $14.9 Trillion. I don't care how much industrialization or modernization you do, you have to remain realistic with your stats. Thats like me saying my GDP is $45 Trillion, which is triple of the IRL US, but I'm only have of the nation.

His argument is that my nation's GDP is 450 Billion (which I have not fact checked). Mine is that if I take out all the wars that never would have happened, and add in a stable government as far back as the 1960s, in thirty years it could climb to replace the RL of 3.85 trillion.

EDIT: The one thing I can acknowledge, however, is that my back story is a little wonky. Provided the OP didn't mind, I would like to modify it so that my nation was unified as far back as the 1940s, following the close of World War II.

[Ptolemais]

OP Annoucement
If IRL your nations GDP is only $1.5 Trillion, it can not magically become $14.9 Trillion. I don't care how much industrialization or modernization you do, you have to remain realistic with your stats. Thats like me saying my GDP is $45 Trillion, which is triple of the IRL US, but I'm only have of the nation.

Nations by Economic Rank
1. Republic of America
2. Japan
3. Cambria
4. Allied States
5. Russia
6. Northern Hegemony
7. Scandinavia
8. Hispanic Republic
9. Central America
10. UAR

That list actually looks pretty solid and accurate. No complaints here.

His argument is that my nation's GDP is 450 Billion (which I have not fact checked). Mine is that if I take out all the wars that never would have happened, and add in a stable government as far back as the 1960s, in thirty years it could climb to replace the RL of 3.85 trillion.

EDIT: The one thing I can acknowledge, however, is that my back story is a little wonky. Provided the OP didn't mind, I would like to modify it so that my nation was unified as far back as the 1940s, following the close of World War II.

I have no problem bumping up your nations economy to represent relative stability and integration, I objected to you increasing it nearly 9 times it's current value. I could see you doubling or tripling to 1 or 1.5 trillion, but nearly 4trillion is just too much.

[Unimutani]

OP Annoucement
If IRL your nations GDP is only $1.5 Trillion, it can not magically become $14.9 Trillion. I don't care how much industrialization or modernization you do, you have to remain realistic with your stats. Thats like me saying my GDP is $45 Trillion, which is triple of the IRL US, but I'm only have of the nation.

Nations by Economic Rank
1. Republic of America
2. Japan
3. Cambria
4. Allied States
5. Russia
6. Northern Hegemony
7. Scandinavia
8. Hispanic Republic
9. Central America
10. UAR

That list actually looks pretty solid and accurate. No complaints here.

As long as we are understood that my GDP is $3.85 trillion, I'm good as well. I reject the premise that I must be poor because I'm an African nation. South Africa, Canada, Brazil, are all RL ethnically diverse regions with GDP per Capitas higher then mine.

[Winovia]

OP Annoucement
If IRL your nations GDP is only $1.5 Trillion, it can not magically become $14.9 Trillion. I don't care how much industrialization or modernization you do, you have to remain realistic with your stats. Thats like me saying my GDP is $45 Trillion, which is triple of the IRL US, but I'm only have of the nation.

His argument is that my nation's GDP is 450 Billion (which I have not fact checked). Mine is that if I take out all the wars that never would have happened, and add in a stable government as far back as the 1960s, in thirty years it could climb to replace the RL of 3.85 trillion.

EDIT: The one thing I can acknowledge, however, is that my back story is a little wonky. Provided the OP didn't mind, I would like to modify it so that my nation was unified as far back as the 1940s, following the close of World War II.

A more reasonable GDP for you would be between $1.5 Trillion and $2 Trillion. I understand the wars never happened and you had a stable government, but you still would underdeveloped compared to everyone else.

[Ptolemais]

As long as we are understood that my GDP is $3.85 trillion, I'm good as well. I reject the premise that I must be poor because I'm an African nation.

It's not that you're poor because you're African, you're poor because your continent has been exploited mercilessly for hundreds of years, bogged down in incessant fighting, and the most ethnically divided region of the world. That does not bode well for the economy. I can believe you've smoothed over these differences, but not to the point where you are some extremely stable Western country going full-steam ahead industrialization starting 50 years ago.

Not to mention the global economy relies on keeping Africa for the most part poor. I see nothing to change that from the other states. Capital flows into Africa then flows back out at a profit, it rarely ever stays there, even in the most developed African states.

[Ptolemais]

South Africa, Canada, Brazil, are all RL ethnically diverse regions with GDP per Capitas higher then mine.

South Africa is probably the closest thing to homogeneous, but the matter of the fact is you don't have it. Canada is fairly homogeneous, despite what liberals would have you believe (French and English are likely the most similar cultural groups on Earth). Brazil, while far from homogeneous, has still experienced relatively peaceful colonialism. However, for their size, their economy still leaves much to be desired.

EDIT: Again, i'm not trying to hate on you, I think you're doing great in the RP, it's just if I see one more fully-industrialized Africa that glosses over all the economic problems facing it and miraculously joins the major industrial economies, i'm going to off myself When I play Africa, even alt history, it's usually more militaristic and opportunistic, I never make myself to be some uber economic powerhouse, because I understand most people would think that's unfair. We can't all be rich

[Unimutani]

As long as we are understood that my GDP is $3.85 trillion, I'm good as well. I reject the premise that I must be poor because I'm an African nation.

It's not that you're poor because you're African, you're poor because your continent has been exploited mercilessly for hundreds of years, bogged down in incessant fighting, and the most ethnically divided region of the world. That does not bode well for the economy. I can believe you've smoothed over these differences, but not to the point where you are some extremely stable Western country going full-steam ahead industrialization starting 50 years ago.

Not to mention the global economy relies on keeping Africa for the most part poor. I see nothing to change that from the other states. Capital flows into Africa then flows back out at a profit, it rarely ever stays there, even in the most developed African states.

By whom? Cambria, (aka Britain) never had an imperialist nature, Italy was conquered, and Spain (Iberia) conquered France and Italy.... Sooo

No exploitation for hundreds of years.

Next point, incessant fighting..

Africa has had multiple empires of the centuries sir. Each time, they proved that they can unite incredible diverse peoples. For example, if you look at modern Ethiopia, you see over 80 different languages and cultures all living in one state. A nation that, prior to communist revolution, had defeated the Italian military!

Next point, me being a first world nation...

My gdp per capita is $12,000... that's fairly poor sir. Japan today has a GDP per captia of $36,000, more then three times what I'm asking. I'm a fairly poor nation. All I'm asking for is a modest healthcare system, and an industrial base.

Next point, in order for the RP to progress I must be poor as the world economy relies on me being pushed around...

I don't even know where to begin with this.

[Winovia]

Everybody needs to post this

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[Unimutani]

EDIT: Again, i'm not trying to hate on you, I think you're doing great in the RP, it's just if I see one more fully-industrialized Africa that glosses over all the economic problems facing it and miraculously joins the major industrial economies, i'm going to off myself When I play Africa, even alt history, it's usually more militaristic and opportunistic, I never make myself to be some uber economic powerhouse, because I understand most people would think that's unfair. We can't all be rich

Again, I'm not wealthy... And I'm sorry that the idea of a wealthy Africa bugs you so much, but it economically speaking it makes the most sense. Furthermore, if you actually read my RPs, you see that I'm well aware of the issues such a government would face, and I don't assume it's all an uber powerhouse.

The idea that nations which supply most of the world's economy with resources could never, in the same amount of time that a wartorn Japan was able to rebuild itself, organize efficiently is beyond me. Your very country's existence is why I'm right. in 70 years, Japan had become a superpower from a backwards isolated kingdom with next to no natural resources.

If my nation was united in the 1920s, I fail to see how I could not accomplish 1/4 of the feat in more time, with far more resources.

[The Free Republic of Akan]

Official Nation Name: Republic of India
Short Nation Name: India
Population:1.3 billion people
Capital: If this is GDP, 1.8 trillion
Territory (Max of 3 IRl Nations): India

Government Type: Republic
Head of State: Pranab Mukherjee
Head of Government: Narendra Modi
Legislature Type (Unicameral, Bicameral, Tricameral): Unicrameal
Upper House: Rayja Sabha
Lower House: Lok Sabha
How does your government work: There is a central government. Due to diversity within the seperate states, however, power of the PM is limited. The new PM is Narendra Modi. The PM has all the power. The government is parlimentary.

Did you participate in World War I? Yes
What side? Allied powers, fighting for Great Britain.
Did you participate in World War II? Yes
What side? Allies, fighting for Great Britain.
Are you a member of the UN? Yes

History: In 1947, Mahatma Gahndi made India independent from Great Britain. In 1950 it was declared a country with a constitution. In 1962, India and China had a small war over territorial disputes. India has also had 4 wars with Pakistan. For all of the Cold War, India was allied with the USSR. India tested its first Nuke in 1974. It has since then conducted 5 nuclear tests, making India a firm Nuclear state. In 2014, Narendra Modi of the BJP finally was able to take power from the ruling Congress party, bringing new hope for India.

Goals for the nation: Increase GDP, industrialize, end poverty
Potential Allies: Russia, Israel, France, Japan, South Korea
Potential Enemies: China, Pakistan, Iran

RP Sample: First actual RP, i have been a GE&Ter most of the time. If you want I can post a link of a product catalog.

[Ptolemais]

By whom? Cambria, (aka Britain) never had an imperialist nature, Italy was conquered, and Spain (Iberia) conquered France and Italy.... Sooo

No exploitation for hundreds of years.

Next point, incessant fighting..

Africa has had multiple empires of the centuries sir. Each time, they proved that they can unite incredible diverse peoples. For example, if you look at modern Ethiopia, you see over 80 different languages and cultures all living in one state. A nation that, prior to communist revolution, had defeated the Italian military!

Next point, me being a first world nation...

My gdp per capita is $12,000... that's fairly poor sir. Japan today has a GDP per captia of $36,000, more then three times what I'm asking. I'm a fairly poor nation. All I'm asking for is a modest healthcare system, and an industrial base.

Next point, in order for the RP to progress I must be poor as the world economy relies on me being pushed around...

I don't even know where to begin with this.

1. As a general rule, all history up until WW2 remains the same as per Winovia.

2. The empires, with few exceptions, did not last long, and fell due to internal conflict rather than external pressure. In Africa, ethnic groups tend to stick together and place their own in positions of power whenever possible. Although this is common in any society, it is more troublesome considering DR Congo alone comprises of more than 200 unique ethnic groups. I said I had no problem with you smoothing over these, but they still exist and you would not be as stable as, for example, China or France.

3. $12,000 is poor in relation to developed countries. $12,000 GDP per capita is actually a couple thousand higher than the world average. I never said you had to be dirt poor, of course you can have a modest healthcare system and industrial base, but don't expect either to be on par with Western standards.

4. Well, if everything up until WW2 is the same as RL, unfortunately that's what Africa's role was. Perhaps you're opening a new era of African development? Africa for the Africans? It will take a while, but no ones stopping you (OOC).

Again, I'm not wealthy... And I'm sorry that the idea of a wealthy Africa bugs you so much, but it economically speaking it makes the most sense. Furthermore, if you actually read my RPs, you see that I'm well aware of the issues such a government would face, and I don't assume it's all an uber powerhouse.

The idea that nations which supply most of the world's economy with resources could never, in the same amount of time that a wartorn Japan was able to rebuild itself, organize efficiently is beyond me. Your very country's existence is why I'm right. in 70 years, Japan had become a superpower from a backwards isolated kingdom with next to no natural resources.

If my nation was united in the 1920s, I fail to see how I could not accomplish 1/4 of the feat in more time, with far more resources.

At your proposed GDP, you would have been ranked around 4th place, above Germany. I'd consider that being wealthy. I know, i've read your IC posts and I love them

I don't understand your comparison to Japan rebuilding and becoming extremely efficient. You are aware that happened in real life, right? As for how, it's because Japan remains the single most homogeneous country in the world and they adopted Western standards back in the 19th century. We also weren't subject to colonization, and are on an island. Maritime economies in general tend to flourish. The reason Japan flourished IRL with lack of resources, is because they exploited countries like yours. As I said before, we learned the game earlier than all other non-Western countries and reaped the rewards.

Also, in this RP, the Empire never fell. Since the US ceased to exist in the capacity it did IRL, Japan was able to negotiate much better terms for armistice. We relinquished our Chinese holdings and Korea in exchange for ceasefire and keeping our empire in SE Asia.

Again, I don't mind Africa kicking around some economic clout, but not to the tune of a top 5 economy.