History of Empires II (OOC, OPEN)

[The Emerald Dragon]

I was thinking that you can live in my cities and get jobs work and become rich or create a colony just for you.

Or, you leave the Eiri alone.

In return for trade etc, etc.

[The Akasha Colony]

MAP UPDATE

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Some claims might have gotten missed in the discussion along with changes to some (e.g. Relikai changing the African claims).

[Rephesus]

I'll just add on the missed one to this:
Zia expansion past 300 years; RL Guyanas

[Redemption-America]

Okay, so this is my theory. Redemption and I sarted with the same pop. (3 mil). He has more land than I do, so he would have a slight amount more people. probably around 20% more. Where would that put him and me currently?

Well, did more research and I'll be dropping my population by a few million.

But the problem with that is that I have more fertile land. Anatolia, Greece, Syria, the Levant, and Mesopotamia are all various levels of fertile. I have very little completely infertile land that can't support a decent population.

The Nile, especially the Nile Delta, is more fertile than any of my territories, but it's a fairly narrow strip of land. The rest of your territory, other than Cyprus (which can't support a large population) is desert, which is by definition sparsely populated.

So looking at Yrtip, given its starting population, it could maybe support 12-14, at max. And that's substantially more than IRL Medieval Egypt, but whatever.

[Rephesus]

Just my two cents, but the Nile was able to feed the rest of the Egyptian nation and much of the various empires that controlled it. The Nile is like the Tigris, Euphrates or Indus is that it is a breadbasket for agriculture capable of feeding masses.

[Bujahla]

MAP UPDATE

Imgur
Picasa

Some claims might have gotten missed in the discussion along with changes to some (e.g. Relikai changing the African claims).

Thanks for this .
I need to upload my newest one. http://i.imgur.com/RHYc46z.jpg

[The Akasha Colony]

Just my two cents, but the Nile was able to feed the rest of the Egyptian nation and much of the various empires that controlled it. The Nile is like the Tigris, Euphrates or Indus is that it is a breadbasket for agriculture capable of feeding masses.

The problem is that there is nothing beyond the Nile to do that, everything else around it is a desert. Which is also true of the Tigris and Euphrates, but not true of all others (e.g. the Indus, Yellow, or Yangtze rivers).

[Rephesus]

Just my two cents, but the Nile was able to feed the rest of the Egyptian nation and much of the various empires that controlled it. The Nile is like the Tigris, Euphrates or Indus is that it is a breadbasket for agriculture capable of feeding masses.

The problem is that there is nothing beyond the Nile to do that, everything else around it is a desert. Which is also true of the Tigris and Euphrates, but not true of all others (e.g. the Indus, Yellow, or Yangtze rivers).

There doesn't need to be, Egypt's population literally follows the Nile, the major cities are on the Nile and the major trade points are as well, there's very little outside that needs to be supported, allowing such a large surplus to be traded to used to expand fertile land.

[Galnius]

The problem is that there is nothing beyond the Nile to do that, everything else around it is a desert. Which is also true of the Tigris and Euphrates, but not true of all others (e.g. the Indus, Yellow, or Yangtze rivers).

There doesn't need to be, Egypt's population literally follows the Nile, the major cities are on the Nile and the major trade points are as well, there's very little outside that needs to be supported, allowing such a large surplus to be traded to used to expand fertile land.

True, but he has fertile land as well, and more of it. That's why I said 20% more pop. Or does 10% make more sense?

[The Akasha Colony]

The problem is that there is nothing beyond the Nile to do that, everything else around it is a desert. Which is also true of the Tigris and Euphrates, but not true of all others (e.g. the Indus, Yellow, or Yangtze rivers).

There doesn't need to be, Egypt's population literally follows the Nile, the major cities are on the Nile and the major trade points are as well, there's very little outside that needs to be supported, allowing such a large surplus to be traded to used to expand fertile land.

Which is the problem. There's nowhere to seriously expand the population, no other sources of agricultural fertility that would allow other major urban centers to exist even today. Which makes the land area comparison pointless. Only a small fraction of Egypt's land is usable, relative to the much larger fraction controlled by the Byzantines.

[Redemption-America]

The problem is that there is nothing beyond the Nile to do that, everything else around it is a desert. Which is also true of the Tigris and Euphrates, but not true of all others (e.g. the Indus, Yellow, or Yangtze rivers).

There doesn't need to be, Egypt's population literally follows the Nile, the major cities are on the Nile and the major trade points are as well, there's very little outside that needs to be supported, allowing such a large surplus to be traded to used to expand fertile land.

Exactly. But there's a limited amount of people that can be supported by the Nile, especially considering the limitations of Medieval agriculture.

There doesn't need to be, Egypt's population literally follows the Nile, the major cities are on the Nile and the major trade points are as well, there's very little outside that needs to be supported, allowing such a large surplus to be traded to used to expand fertile land.

True, but he has fertile land as well, and more of it. That's why I said 20% more pop. Or does 10% make more sense?

Honestly, what I said before is what makes sense. Hah. No idea what the percentage is on that, though.

[Galnius]

There doesn't need to be, Egypt's population literally follows the Nile, the major cities are on the Nile and the major trade points are as well, there's very little outside that needs to be supported, allowing such a large surplus to be traded to used to expand fertile land.

Exactly. But there's a limited amount of people that can be supported by the Nile, especially considering the limitations of Medieval agriculture.

True, but he has fertile land as well, and more of it. That's why I said 20% more pop. Or does 10% make more sense?

Honestly, what I said before is what makes sense. Hah. No idea what the percentage is on that, though.

It would make sense if it wasn't for coastal land. Probably 20% though. What's you pop? I'm mainly doing this to figure out what I have. I'm already planning out an outcome for this war if you'd oblige. I'll TG it to you.

[Redemption-America]

Exactly. But there's a limited amount of people that can be supported by the Nile, especially considering the limitations of Medieval agriculture.



Honestly, what I said before is what makes sense. Hah. No idea what the percentage is on that, though.

It would make sense if it wasn't for coastal land. Probably 20% though. What's you pop? I'm mainly doing this to figure out what I have. I'm already planning out an outcome for this war if you'd oblige. I'll TG it to you.

That coastal land is desert, though.

20% gives you 25 million (assuming I did the math correctly), which is way too many for the land you have.

But yeah, just send me a TG and we can talk about that.

[Galnius]

It would make sense if it wasn't for coastal land. Probably 20% though. What's you pop? I'm mainly doing this to figure out what I have. I'm already planning out an outcome for this war if you'd oblige. I'll TG it to you.

That coastal land is desert, though.

20% gives you 25 million (assuming I did the math correctly), which is way too many for the land you have.

But yeah, just send me a TG and we can talk about that.

I'm not seeing how, the Nile Delta alone currently supports half the 80 million population alone, and though I cannot necessarily bring too much water around, Staying on the nile and having the cities there (as was done in ancient times and still today), it could very easily support 25 million total throughout all the land.

[Neo-Assyrian Empire]

I think I'm gonna claim that tiny slice of unclaimed land in Eastern France and see how a micro nation would fit in this world...

Also, I'll try to get an update post up today, with finishing the First Crusade and the invasion of Ireland with Pol & Relikai. I might as well "enlighten" the Irish Barbarians while they are still weakened.

[The Emerald Dragon]

I think I'm gonna claim that tiny slice of unclaimed land in Eastern France and see how a micro nation would fit in this world...

Also, I'll try to get an update post up today, with finishing the First Crusade and the invasion of Ireland with Pol & Relikai. I might as well "enlighten" the Irish Barbarians while they are still weakened.

They'll convert.

Just don't invade.

[Rephesus]

Retrea, Olmec and I follow the same religion, meaning that crusading/conversions when the new world discovers you wont be easy. Atleast not for you

[Neo-Assyrian Empire]

I think I'm gonna claim that tiny slice of unclaimed land in Eastern France and see how a micro nation would fit in this world...

Also, I'll try to get an update post up today, with finishing the First Crusade and the invasion of Ireland with Pol & Relikai. I might as well "enlighten" the Irish Barbarians while they are still weakened.

They'll convert.

Just don't invade.

Huh, that was easy. Well then, Pol, are you still gonna stick with Silveros or are you going to make this easy?

[Bujahla]

I think I'm gonna claim that tiny slice of unclaimed land in Eastern France and see how a micro nation would fit in this world...

Also, I'll try to get an update post up today, with finishing the First Crusade and the invasion of Ireland with Pol & Relikai. I might as well "enlighten" the Irish Barbarians while they are still weakened.

Our Andorra? It came around at this time IRL didn't it.

[Quaxoglia]

Quaxoglia became an independent country in the year 1860.
The first King, Kittard I ruled for 30 years. After his death, his son Kittard II took the throne. He ruled for al least 64 years. He transformed the capital Belsina into a monumental baroque city, with fountains, palaces, triumphal arches, parks, museums, academies and luxury coffee houses and luxury hotels. Belsina became the Vienna of the east. The cities of Wenstania and Cindiania got the most famous universities of the region. The harbour cities of Darsonica in the south and Athana in the east got the fish industry and big harbours. After the death of Kittard II, his daughter Miranda took the throne. She was the most popular Queen. She died after 85 years on the throne. When she died, the country was in deep mourning and was deeply divided. The northern city of Depened want to be independent, because there was a cultural difference between the North of the country and the rest. After a civil war, Pruts got the throne. She was an excellent Queen. She ruled for more than 60 years. Under her reign, a referendum was held in the Provinces of Thracia and in the Northern province. In Thracia more then 70% choose for independency, but in the Northern province there was not a majority for the independency. Under Pruts there was an industrial revival. Only 5% of the population was unemployed. When Pruts died, there was a second civil war. The republicans won, and a dictatorship was established under the reign of general Cassiman. Under Cassiman a dictatorship was established. After 20 years of reign and a large debt, Ninian catholic forces invade Quaxoglia and killed the dictator. Then the monarchy was restored under the reign of Quaxo, the daughter of Pruts. Under the reign of Quaxo there was an industrial revival and a technological revolution. After 20 years, the beloved Queen died. She was succeeded by Julie, who now sits on the throne only one year.

[The Emerald Dragon]

I hold the British army and all forces in high regard.

But this, this was vile, i still remember the original inquiry.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SwHU7DGyoyE

[Neo-Assyrian Empire]

I think I'm gonna claim that tiny slice of unclaimed land in Eastern France and see how a micro nation would fit in this world...

Also, I'll try to get an update post up today, with finishing the First Crusade and the invasion of Ireland with Pol & Relikai. I might as well "enlighten" the Irish Barbarians while they are still weakened.

Our Andorra? It came around at this time IRL didn't it.

Yep.

@Western Europe Don't hurt tiny Sviessland pl0x.

Quaxoglia became an independent country in the year 1860.
The first King, Kittard I ruled for 30 years. After his death, his son Kittard II took the throne. He ruled for al least 64 years. He transformed the capital Belsina into a monumental baroque city, with fountains, palaces, triumphal arches, parks, museums, academies and luxury coffee houses and luxury hotels. Belsina became the Vienna of the east. The cities of Wenstania and Cindiania got the most famous universities of the region. The harbour cities of Darsonica in the south and Athana in the east got the fish industry and big harbours. After the death of Kittard II, his daughter Miranda took the throne. She was the most popular Queen. She died after 85 years on the throne. When she died, the country was in deep mourning and was deeply divided. The northern city of Depened want to be independent, because there was a cultural difference between the North of the country and the rest. After a civil war, Pruts got the throne. She was an excellent Queen. She ruled for more than 60 years. Under her reign, a referendum was held in the Provinces of Thracia and in the Northern province. In Thracia more then 70% choose for independency, but in the Northern province there was not a majority for the independency. Under Pruts there was an industrial revival. Only 5% of the population was unemployed. When Pruts died, there was a second civil war. The republicans won, and a dictatorship was established under the reign of general Cassiman. Under Cassiman a dictatorship was established. After 20 years of reign and a large debt, Ninian catholic forces invade Quaxoglia and killed the dictator. Then the monarchy was restored under the reign of Quaxo, the daughter of Pruts. Under the reign of Quaxo there was an industrial revival and a technological revolution. After 20 years, the beloved Queen died. She was succeeded by Julie, who now sits on the throne only one year.

wut. Are you interested in joining? Because, if you are, read the OP.

[Galnius]

Quaxoglia became an independent country in the year 1860.
The first King, Kittard I ruled for 30 years. After his death, his son Kittard II took the throne. He ruled for al least 64 years. He transformed the capital Belsina into a monumental baroque city, with fountains, palaces, triumphal arches, parks, museums, academies and luxury coffee houses and luxury hotels. Belsina became the Vienna of the east. The cities of Wenstania and Cindiania got the most famous universities of the region. The harbour cities of Darsonica in the south and Athana in the east got the fish industry and big harbours. After the death of Kittard II, his daughter Miranda took the throne. She was the most popular Queen. She died after 85 years on the throne. When she died, the country was in deep mourning and was deeply divided. The northern city of Depened want to be independent, because there was a cultural difference between the North of the country and the rest. After a civil war, Pruts got the throne. She was an excellent Queen. She ruled for more than 60 years. Under her reign, a referendum was held in the Provinces of Thracia and in the Northern province. In Thracia more then 70% choose for independency, but in the Northern province there was not a majority for the independency. Under Pruts there was an industrial revival. Only 5% of the population was unemployed. When Pruts died, there was a second civil war. The republicans won, and a dictatorship was established under the reign of general Cassiman. Under Cassiman a dictatorship was established. After 20 years of reign and a large debt, Ninian catholic forces invade Quaxoglia and killed the dictator. Then the monarchy was restored under the reign of Quaxo, the daughter of Pruts. Under the reign of Quaxo there was an industrial revival and a technological revolution. After 20 years, the beloved Queen died. She was succeeded by Julie, who now sits on the throne only one year.

And it isn't 1860 yet

[Redemption-America]

That coastal land is desert, though.

20% gives you 25 million (assuming I did the math correctly), which is way too many for the land you have.

But yeah, just send me a TG and we can talk about that.

I'm not seeing how, the Nile Delta alone currently supports half the 80 million population alone, and though I cannot necessarily bring too much water around, Staying on the nile and having the cities there (as was done in ancient times and still today), it could very easily support 25 million total throughout all the land.

Because of modern agricultural techniques and technology. For example, Great Britain has a population of 60 million now compared to 5 in the Middle Ages. Same land, same fertility, vast difference in technology that allows for a higher population.

Medieval Egypt had a population of around eight million. That's what the Nile could support. I'm fine with you having more than eight (like I said, 12-14), but I'm not entirely sure how there's a claim for more than triple of their real population.

Edit, nevermind, we're working stuff out via TG.

[Rephesus]

For example, Great Britain has a population of 60 million now compared to 5 in the Middle Ages. Same land, same fertility, vast difference in technology that allows for a higher population.

The middle ages were a very long time ago. 200 years ago our world population was 1 Billion. It's now 7 Billion. I just don't think that's a very good example of fertility, because that was a global trend, areas like India blew up because of medical advances, they had good agriculture for Millennia (Indus/Ganges/Bengal Delta/Kerala....) .