History of Empires II (OOC, OPEN)

[Relikai]

Because you're supposed to be realistic and reasonable. So i'll take more losses from you, be outnumbered and simply crushed. You happy with that?

Nope, and i am being reasonable.

Well, me forgetting that i never bought catapults destroyed my claim to being realistic.

Ok Emerald, show us man. Complete your post and prove it to all of us that you actually mean what you post on the OOC, in the IC.

So how many men do you have now? 20,000 ? And how many in the rearguard?


On another note, BallyColumbia is kind of inactive here. Can one of the new guys slot in ?

[Relikai]

Emerald....

At maximum range under fire AND rain its hard for crossbow bolts to be precisely aimed for direct hits all along the line of the infantry, even for the legs or feet...

So in the whole battle, I estimated around 200-300 casualties from crossbow fire along the line, and you lost 15 from 6,000 Longbows... very realistic. Very Reasonable.

[The Emerald Dragon]

Um, i've just picked up Vicky 2, so i'll probably be playing that for a lot of today.

Also, apologies for the casualties, i didn't know how many you'd taken, and i thought it would be on the low side, so i gave myself low casualties also.

Also, longbows and crossbows tend to not really work well in rain.

Longbows mainly because the bow-string gets wet.

[Relikai]

Um, i've just picked up Vicky 2, so i'll probably be playing that for a lot of today.

Also, apologies for the casualties, i didn't know how many you'd taken, and i thought it would be on the low side, so i gave myself low casualties also.

Also, longbows and crossbows tend to not really work well in rain.

Longbows mainly because the bow-string gets wet.

Yeah, that I know. They wont be working well in a short moment, but they worked much better during the opening stages of the battle when its not raining. Thats a critical component you did not acknowledge.

[The Emerald Dragon]

Um, i've just picked up Vicky 2, so i'll probably be playing that for a lot of today.

Also, apologies for the casualties, i didn't know how many you'd taken, and i thought it would be on the low side, so i gave myself low casualties also.

Also, longbows and crossbows tend to not really work well in rain.

Longbows mainly because the bow-string gets wet.

Yeah, that I know. They wont be working well in a short moment, but they worked much better during the opening stages of the battle when its not raining. Thats a critical component you did not acknowledge.

I'll finish my post in a couple hours, when i come back.

Anyway, i'll be sending some immigrants to South-Western Africa in the 1640s.

[Altito Asmoro]

Yeah, that I know. They wont be working well in a short moment, but they worked much better during the opening stages of the battle when its not raining. Thats a critical component you did not acknowledge.

I'll finish my post in a couple hours, when i come back.

Anyway, i'll be sending some immigrants to South-Western Africa in the 1640s.

It's still in 13th century

[The Emerald Dragon]

Hello, sorry i've not been on today.

Basically, i got punched in the face for no reason and had to check whether my teeth were broken.

[Alleniana]

#KalmarUnionBestUnion #1397

#numbersign


So, who else is currently planning their epic fall?

Yes.
DEATH LIST
Thabemi: Destroyed by corruption
Nenebemi: Destroyed by religion
Mizomibe: Destroyed by secularists (soon)
The theocracy will overstep its authoritah and the people will rise up, breaking the totalitarianistic, brutal state and replacing it with a republic reminiscent of earlier days, while continuing to follow Bebenism (which does not explicitly forbid what they are doing, so there)

So, i'm supposed to lose 2,000 men in a few moments of fighting?

It takes several minutes for longbowmen to form up, react to orders, and prepare then aim and shoot their weapons, and then after that for the arrows to hit and kill/maim.

Hello, sorry i've not been on today.

Basically, i got punched in the face for no reason and had to check whether my teeth were broken.

eeehh?
You ok?

---

Alright. Seriously, now, time to invade Fort.
edit:
Alright.
wat.
Why is Japan in Alaska?

Also, Reph, no more expandy plox.

[Relikai]

Hello, sorry i've not been on today.

Basically, i got punched in the face for no reason and had to check whether my teeth were broken.

Hope you're okay in real life. Get patched up and be 100% man

[Alleniana]

May I ask who the bluey Central Asian is?

[Relikai]

May I ask who the bluey Central Asian is?

That's my failed inactive nation. Should be reduced to Whitelands a long time ago

[Alleniana]

May I ask who the bluey Central Asian is?

That's my failed inactive nation. Should be reduced to Whitelands a long time ago

Ah, alrighty.

[The Akasha Colony]

Central Asia? I would not have called that Central Asia, but I've been preparing to invade that for... a while.

[Alleniana]

Central Asia? I would not have called that Central Asia, but I've been preparing to invade that for... a while.

I meant the purply-blue near Iran.

[Great Houses of Xie]

@Alleniana: it's more a question of why Japan wasn't in Alaska any earlier, considering they were in the Aleutians for a few hundred years now. Pulling supplies from mainland Alaska is far easier than sending supplies up from Sakhalin or mainland Japan. Then, factor in the treaty, that was only just lifted, with Akasha's China which stipulated that the Japanese couldn't do anything on the mainland, forcing them to search elsewhere to exert their influence.

Furthermore, considering the far-flung island nature of the HoE version of the Japanese, from the Ryuukyuus all the way up to the Aleutians, it's quite clear that they have significant maritime skills; those skills then make such an endeavor more than possible.

[Altito Asmoro]

I will prepare for invasion to Kalimantan, as La Republica had went dormant

[Alleniana]

@Alleniana: it's more a question of why Japan wasn't in Alaska any earlier, considering they were in the Aleutians for a few hundred years now. Pulling supplies from mainland Alaska is far easier than sending supplies up from Sakhalin or mainland Japan. Then, factor in the treaty, that was only just lifted, with Akasha's China which stipulated that the Japanese couldn't do anything on the mainland, forcing them to search elsewhere to exert their influence.

Furthermore, considering the far-flung island nature of the HoE version of the Japanese, from the Ryuukyuus all the way up to the Aleutians, it's quite clear that they have significant maritime skills; those skills then make such an endeavor more than possible.

A few things;
1. The ocean currents don't seem very favourable. Even the Aleutian islands should be hard to reach, and if you have the naval prowess to reach Alaska, then rather than doing that, I ask you to tone the navy down.
2. The Aleutian islands are extremely cold, rock and windswept; Alaska perhaps more so. Though we're in the medieval warm age, it's going to be exceedingly hard to supply anything up there. Even today, the population of the Aleutians is only a few thousand. Supplying Alaska will be even harder.
3. What is the purpose of exerting influence there? Those areas are simply much too cold and poor in resources to generate any profit at all; it would take subsidies at least in order for people to live normal lives in the northern Aleutians. Prestige would hardly be a factor; most non-Japanese probably have no idea the place exists. The only reason I can think of is it being some sort of monarch's pet project, but not only is that unlikely to be the case, there's also the fact that such a pet project would likely be subject to the monarch's misunderstandings on the issue, subjecting it to ignorant and fantastic decisions made by a faraway ruler.
4. Why not the Kamchatka peninsula? It's easier to colonize, closer and the treaty probably won't affect it, since ice would make it basically impossible to tell what's a peninsula and what's land.
5. Even if it does get past all that and is in all good sense, it really messes up the timeline to have that kind of thing. If you're planning to have them die off and it to be like some sort of Vinland-like tale to tell, that's fine, but I really doubt you're going to do that. Having a serious Asian influence in the Americas several centuries before anyone else is going to give Japan an insurmountable advantage, especially as I'm fairly sure that your part of Asia won't be dropping behind Europe in this timeline, in addition to changing the face of the Americas with disease and tech spread, among other things. It changes the entire dynamic of world history in the way that gunpowder in the BC does, and HoE doesn't aim to change things so entirely and completely (e.g. no specie variation, even for subspecies, rough following of technological progression, recognisable political structures, etc.)

[Rephesus]

I've done that expanding over the last 1300 years, it's literally 5 provinces, I just took the time to map it out.

[Great Houses of Xie]

@Alleniana: it's more a question of why Japan wasn't in Alaska any earlier, considering they were in the Aleutians for a few hundred years now. Pulling supplies from mainland Alaska is far easier than sending supplies up from Sakhalin or mainland Japan. Then, factor in the treaty, that was only just lifted, with Akasha's China which stipulated that the Japanese couldn't do anything on the mainland, forcing them to search elsewhere to exert their influence.

Furthermore, considering the far-flung island nature of the HoE version of the Japanese, from the Ryuukyuus all the way up to the Aleutians, it's quite clear that they have significant maritime skills; those skills then make such an endeavor more than possible.

A few things;
1. The ocean currents don't seem very favourable. Even the Aleutian islands should be hard to reach, and if you have the naval prowess to reach Alaska, then rather than doing that, I ask you to tone the navy down.
2. The Aleutian islands are extremely cold, rock and windswept; Alaska perhaps more so. Though we're in the medieval warm age, it's going to be exceedingly hard to supply anything up there. Even today, the population of the Aleutians is only a few thousand. Supplying Alaska will be even harder.
3. What is the purpose of exerting influence there? Those areas are simply much too cold and poor in resources to generate any profit at all; it would take subsidies at least in order for people to live normal lives in the northern Aleutians. Prestige would hardly be a factor; most non-Japanese probably have no idea the place exists. The only reason I can think of is it being some sort of monarch's pet project, but not only is that unlikely to be the case, there's also the fact that such a pet project would likely be subject to the monarch's misunderstandings on the issue, subjecting it to ignorant and fantastic decisions made by a faraway ruler.
4. Why not the Kamchatka peninsula? It's easier to colonize, closer and the treaty probably won't affect it, since ice would make it basically impossible to tell what's a peninsula and what's land.
5. Even if it does get past all that and is in all good sense, it really messes up the timeline to have that kind of thing. If you're planning to have them die off and it to be like some sort of Vinland-like tale to tell, that's fine, but I really doubt you're going to do that. Having a serious Asian influence in the Americas several centuries before anyone else is going to give Japan an insurmountable advantage, especially as I'm fairly sure that your part of Asia won't be dropping behind Europe in this timeline, in addition to changing the face of the Americas with disease and tech spread, among other things. It changes the entire dynamic of world history in the way that gunpowder in the BC does, and HoE doesn't aim to change things so entirely and completely (e.g. no specie variation, even for subspecies, rough following of technological progression, recognisable political structures, etc.)

1. Ocean currents have already been discussed; they're not prohibitive, in the slightest, until the Bering Strait. Why would I tone the navy down? The Japanese need that navy. As I pointed out, its holdings stretch from the Ryuukyuus to the Aleutians. To not have a large navy would be absolute suicide.

2. Whaling is pretty nice, considering their migration paths swing them up by there. The Aleutians are very sparsely settled, for the aforementioned reasons. However, it has led to the establishment of various semi-permanent settlements that easily work to further more exploration towards the east.

3. All the areas claimed have significant resources, in the form of timber, water, metals, pelts, and whatnot. Again, it's far easier pulling supplies from the much closer Alaska than the further Sakhalin. On the matter of not liking the whims of a faraway ruler. If they feel dependent on the faraway ruler, for any reason, then they'll be more willing to stay within the fold, so to speak. An example of this is the dependence of the Ryuukyuu Kingdom on Japan for more than 300 years without any revolts occurring. Or the dependence of the Thirteen Colonies on the British crown. Or the ability of the Mongol Empire to stay intact for a hundred years.

And indeed, subsidies are precisely what's going on. As mentioned earlier, given the treaty, Japan is interested in establishing itself somewhere. It so happens that there's a very large landmass to the east with a lot of people who aren't quite as advanced as the Japanese. Though, as I've pointed out above, and as you've done so regarding the medieval warmed period, the settled areas aren't actually that unprofitable.

In time, I may very well have the people grow restless with their faraway monarch. However, like all settlers when they are first settled, they are quite reliant on the support of said monarch, so can't quite be too rebellious, yet. They have to become settled and develop their own power before realistically thinking of taking on the homeland.

As for the influence, they have to basically compete with China to make it seem like they're not a threat, while at the same time having to appear strong enough to resist the Chinese, should they try to make a move against them. By being able to boast of faraway lands that pay homage to the Japanese, whether or not its true, and being able to bring in foreign goods never seen before by the various East Asians, it gives the impression that the Japanese are quite strong.

4. Kamchatka is part of the mainland and was thereby off-limits, per treaty with China. And, as pointed out, it's also quite unsuitable for colonization. Though, I suppose the Scandinavians could do it and certainly, in HoE, the Japanese kind of did it by going to the Aleutians. But, they're, again, staying true to the treaty. China is rather big and has been rather aggressive; the Japanese aren't keen on provoking it, especially after having the power of the Chinese demonstrated to them in their earlier war. Worse, the Chinese have, over the centuries, crushed quite a few wannabe powers in the region. They have quite the reputation.

5. Isn't that the whole point of this alternate history exercise, to change the timeline? So far, the entire endeavor has been carried out using period tech, knowledge, skills, and political structures.

[Rephesus]

To add on to the whole ocean discussion, you did colonize the Maldives a few thousand years earlier than OTL...

[Alleniana]

A few things;
1. The ocean currents don't seem very favourable. Even the Aleutian islands should be hard to reach, and if you have the naval prowess to reach Alaska, then rather than doing that, I ask you to tone the navy down.
2. The Aleutian islands are extremely cold, rock and windswept; Alaska perhaps more so. Though we're in the medieval warm age, it's going to be exceedingly hard to supply anything up there. Even today, the population of the Aleutians is only a few thousand. Supplying Alaska will be even harder.
3. What is the purpose of exerting influence there? Those areas are simply much too cold and poor in resources to generate any profit at all; it would take subsidies at least in order for people to live normal lives in the northern Aleutians. Prestige would hardly be a factor; most non-Japanese probably have no idea the place exists. The only reason I can think of is it being some sort of monarch's pet project, but not only is that unlikely to be the case, there's also the fact that such a pet project would likely be subject to the monarch's misunderstandings on the issue, subjecting it to ignorant and fantastic decisions made by a faraway ruler.
4. Why not the Kamchatka peninsula? It's easier to colonize, closer and the treaty probably won't affect it, since ice would make it basically impossible to tell what's a peninsula and what's land.
5. Even if it does get past all that and is in all good sense, it really messes up the timeline to have that kind of thing. If you're planning to have them die off and it to be like some sort of Vinland-like tale to tell, that's fine, but I really doubt you're going to do that. Having a serious Asian influence in the Americas several centuries before anyone else is going to give Japan an insurmountable advantage, especially as I'm fairly sure that your part of Asia won't be dropping behind Europe in this timeline, in addition to changing the face of the Americas with disease and tech spread, among other things. It changes the entire dynamic of world history in the way that gunpowder in the BC does, and HoE doesn't aim to change things so entirely and completely (e.g. no specie variation, even for subspecies, rough following of technological progression, recognisable political structures, etc.)

1. Ocean currents have already been discussed; they're not prohibitive, in the slightest, until the Bering Strait. Why would I tone the navy down? The Japanese need that navy. As I pointed out, its holdings stretch from the Ryuukyuus to the Aleutians. To not have a large navy would be absolute suicide.

2. Whaling is pretty nice, considering their migration paths swing them up by there. The Aleutians are very sparsely settled, for the aforementioned reasons. However, it has led to the establishment of various semi-permanent settlements that easily work to further more exploration towards the east.

3. All the areas claimed have significant resources, in the form of timber, water, metals, pelts, and whatnot. Again, it's far easier pulling supplies from the much closer Alaska than the further Sakhalin. On the matter of not liking the whims of a faraway ruler. If they feel dependent on the faraway ruler, for any reason, then they'll be more willing to stay within the fold, so to speak. An example of this is the dependence of the Ryuukyuu Kingdom on Japan for more than 300 years without any revolts occurring. Or the dependence of the Thirteen Colonies on the British crown. Or the ability of the Mongol Empire to stay intact for a hundred years.

And indeed, subsidies are precisely what's going on. As mentioned earlier, given the treaty, Japan is interested in establishing itself somewhere. It so happens that there's a very large landmass to the east with a lot of people who aren't quite as advanced as the Japanese. Though, as I've pointed out above, and as you've done so regarding the medieval warmed period, the settled areas aren't actually that unprofitable.

In time, I may very well have the people grow restless with their faraway monarch. However, like all settlers when they are first settled, they are quite reliant on the support of said monarch, so can't quite be too rebellious, yet. They have to become settled and develop their own power before realistically thinking of taking on the homeland.

As for the influence, they have to basically compete with China to make it seem like they're not a threat, while at the same time having to appear strong enough to resist the Chinese, should they try to make a move against them. By being able to boast of faraway lands that pay homage to the Japanese, whether or not its true, and being able to bring in foreign goods never seen before by the various East Asians, it gives the impression that the Japanese are quite strong.

4. Kamchatka is part of the mainland and was thereby off-limits, per treaty with China. And, as pointed out, it's also quite unsuitable for colonization. Though, I suppose the Scandinavians could do it and certainly, in HoE, the Japanese kind of did it by going to the Aleutians. But, they're, again, staying true to the treaty. China is rather big and has been rather aggressive; the Japanese aren't keen on provoking it, especially after having the power of the Chinese demonstrated to them in their earlier war. Worse, the Chinese have, over the centuries, crushed quite a few wannabe powers in the region. They have quite the reputation.

5. Isn't that the whole point of this alternate history exercise, to change the timeline? So far, the entire endeavor has been carried out using period tech, knowledge, skills, and political structures.

1. Hmm? I didn't do too much research, but I'll take your word here. It would certainly not help, though, with so much ice.
2. Whaling, though, will hardly keep the communities alive, and semi-permanent settlements are hardly going to provide much of a base for expansion into a much more wild, dangerous and faraway land.
3.
i water, probably, but not in a form as accessible or useful as, say, the Nile River
ii timber, indeed, but hardly the reason for a colony by itself
iii pelts could be acquired simply by hunting parties, but I suppose you could count it
iv metals? wouldn't it be too hard to smelt in such underdeveloped areas, not to mention hard to extract with the small manpower?

The warm period only makes them less unprofitable, and that really doesn't help the cause, despite resources. Establishing unprofitable colonies doesn't really do much for the economy; it would be attention better spent on developing the homeland.

And as to prestige/influence; it does play a role if you put it that way, but all the exotic goods they bring in and the nice stories that can be told hardly justify putting a bunch of people in a land which might as well be hell, and is about as useful as it.
4. Kamchatka, IIRC, is certainly warmer than Alaska, and I doubt that the Chinese even know of its existence. Supposing they do, it's pretty hard to conceive that they could know that Alaska was part of a separate land and Kamchatka was not.

5. Yes, but in a way that we can at least try to recognise or predict.

I know that these numbered lists (though I am guilty of creating it) generally spiral into more and more irrelevant and meaningless blabber, so instead of doing that, if you'd be happy to, we can come to a compromise; Japan can establish permanent and semi-permanent settlements in the Aleutian islands, and explore/familiarise themselves with Alaska, and perhaps establish a few semi-permanent settlements/dump some exiles, until the Warm Period ends, at which point ice, distance and whatever factors you want to use cause meaningful contact with the Americas to be lost until the 1500s, at which point everybody can get on the colonisation boat.

To add on to the whole ocean discussion, you did colonize the Maldives a few thousand years earlier than OTL...

\
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maldives#A ... settlement
"Seafaring from Debal began during the Indus valley civilisation."
I don't recall the exact dates, perhaps I was a bit early, but it was at least preceded by much trading contact which happened historically, and a country which I think it would be fair to say was stronger than the Indus in seafaring by at least a bit.

[Galnius]

So....has anyone seen redemption America?

[Redemption-America]

So....has anyone seen redemption America?

Homework is kicking me in the ass right now, but I should be able to post today or tomorrow. Sorry about the wait.

[Galnius]

So....has anyone seen redemption America?

Homework is kicking me in the ass right now, but I should be able to post today or tomorrow. Sorry about the wait.

All good. Just saying, it seems you are the devil, for I speaketh of you, and you come xD

[Bujahla]

So....has anyone seen redemption America?

Homework is kicking me in the ass right now, but I should be able to post today or tomorrow. Sorry about the wait.

Awww. The lovely thing known as summer break. And is time slowing down to 10 years per day? I'mma be gone until 7/5 soon so Kry will post for Scandinavia (forgot the name we decided on) when I'm gone.