Game of Thrones: Aftermath (OOC)

[Mormak]

North cannot defeat whole South united. Starks wouldnt had any, and i mean literally ANY chance to defeat repeating, long term push from whole South or perhaps just one total overkill.
Just imagine combined Redwyne+Baratheon fleet with tens of thousands soldiers invading White Harbor (comparable to Kings Landing like Tyrion to Gregor), while hundred of thousand strong army going through the neck, resistance or not.

i would compare North to RL medieval Lithuania. very strong and stubborn, honorable people, using marches and vast cold forests to defend themselves, many of them resisted christianity to the 15th century, which is remarkable alone.
but in the end, they were subjugated anyway.

nd the Neck has ONE road which the Southern Armies could cross through. Ambush by Crannogmen from the sides and a staunch defense of Moat Cailin

Don't you just love Wildfire? That would be my toy of choice on a march North, I would follow the advice of Tywin Lannister and BURN everything, I couldn't take to sustain my own army in the field, I would love to see the Frog Eaters try to play hidden warrior while their Bogs are being consumed by magical flames and Moat Cailin's weakness is already WELL documented. You hit it from both fronts at once, overwhelm the defenders. Sea and Land, A Stouch defense would just result in more losses for the North, and given that you are suggest they rely on hit and run, which requires a place to hide, and seeing as i wouldn't give them one...Well i think the North would capitulate to the Throne.

North cannot defeat whole South united. Starks wouldnt had any, and i mean literally ANY chance to defeat repeating, long term push from whole South or perhaps just one total overkill.
Just imagine combined Redwyne+Baratheon fleet with tens of thousands soldiers invading White Harbor (comparable to Kings Landing like Tyrion to Gregor), while hundred of thousand strong army going through the neck, resistance or not.

i would compare North to RL medieval Lithuania. very strong and stubborn, honorable people, using marches and vast cold forests to defend themselves, many of them resisted christianity to the 15th century, which is remarkable alone.
but in the end, they were subjugated anyway.

Once winter arrived the northerners may even let the southern troops cross so that they could use the weather against them. But in the end the First Men would stop the Andals as they did during the Andal Invasion of Westeros.

Here following the age old tactic of Winter Quarter is advised, unless if you are within Trebuchet range of Winterfell, i'd advise falling back south to the captured White Harbor, Moat Calin and preparing for a Summer invasion of the North. Here is my take on why the Andal's failed, they didn't adapt to fight a new enemy.

I will take the tools of Westeros and i would make that mother burn.

[Socialist Czechia]

Actually if I remember right, Lithuania defeated all Crusades aimed towards it. They only became Christian after its rulers married the rulers of Poland creating Poland-Lithuania, effectively a medieval superpower. The Lithuanians slowly accepted Christianity through the next hundred years on their own. However, this is not Lithuania and the Neck has ONE road which the Southern Armies could cross through. Ambush by Crannogmen from the sides and a staunch defense of Moat Cailin would have stopped a southern invasion cold. Once winter arrived the northerners may even let the southern troops cross so that they could use the weather against them. But in the end the First Men would stop the Andals as they did during the Andal Invasion of Westeros.

Slow or fast subjugation is still a subjugation.

i would dare to say that Andals were already exhausted, and southern, vast, fertile lands, better weather and rich mines were simply enough for them.
perhaps they were confused and scared by the Wall. they were from Essos, and they never saw something like that, with hundreds of stories from 'natives' about horrors beyond.

they even didn't subjugated Ironmen properly, since 'conquered' First Men there assimilated Andal colonists (i assume they rebelled, killed and destroyed everything new soon and made thralls and salt wives from them, adopting just 'minor' Andal stuff, like titles and iron weapons, most importantly).

[Mormak]

Actually if I remember right, Lithuania defeated all Crusades aimed towards it. They only became Christian after its rulers married the rulers of Poland creating Poland-Lithuania, effectively a medieval superpower. The Lithuanians slowly accepted Christianity through the next hundred years on their own. However, this is not Lithuania and the Neck has ONE road which the Southern Armies could cross through. Ambush by Crannogmen from the sides and a staunch defense of Moat Cailin would have stopped a southern invasion cold. Once winter arrived the northerners may even let the southern troops cross so that they could use the weather against them. But in the end the First Men would stop the Andals as they did during the Andal Invasion of Westeros.

Slow or fast subjugation is still a subjugation.

i would dare to say that Andals were already exhausted, and southern, vast, fertile lands, better weather and rich mines were simply enough for them.
perhaps they were confused and scared by the Wall. they were from Essos, and they never saw something like that, with hundreds of stories from 'natives' about horrors beyond.

they even didn't subjugated Ironmen properly, since 'conquered' First Men there assimilated Andal colonists (i assume they rebelled, killed and destroyed everything new soon and made thralls and salt wives from them, adopting just 'minor' Andal stuff, like titles and iron weapons, most importantly).

So you are just pretending that whole House Hoare thing (The Andal Overlord to the Iron Islands) Never happened? Aegon ended that, not the Ironmen.

[Socialist Czechia]

Andals attacked as religious lunatics, who killed Children of the Forest as abomination and forced First Men to convert or die.

Drowned God ruled over Iron Island long time before the invasion, so if Andals actually conquered them, destroyed House Greyiron, they still didn't destroyed Drowned God religion nor they didn't manage to bring them to the Faith.
They conquered them by superior force, but they couldn't subjugated them, so virtually Andals and Faith lost there. Hoares were perhaps mixed blood, but not so much Andalous by culture or religion, since they almost didn't change their culture from pre-invasion state.

Perhaps, which would be irony, is Drowned God/Storm God true religion of the First Men, before they adopted gods of The Children (or like Giants call them, "the squirrel people").
They were invaders too, after all, so it wouldn't be surprising.

[Mormak]

Andals attacked as religious lunatics, who killed Children of the Forest as abomination and forced First Men to convert or die.

Drowned God ruled over Iron Island long time before the invasion, so if Andals actually conquered them, destroyed House Greyiron, they still didn't destroyed Drowned God religion nor they didn't manage to bring them to the Faith.
They conquered them by superior force, but they couldn't subjugated them, so virtually Andals and Faith lost there.

Perhaps, which would be irony, is Drowned God/Storm God true religion of the First Men, before they adopted gods of The Children (or like Giants call them, "the squirrel people").
They were invaders too, after all, so it wouldn't be surprising.

So...You do pretend it didn't happen?

In reality they won but spiritually they lost!

Seriously if House Hoare hadn't gone up in smoke because of Aegon, i have a feeling they would have remained under Andal rule forever, And by the way you are also incorrect. Lord's Port aka the seat of the King at Pyke had a sept, aka the seat for the faith of the Seven, Unbelievable isn't it? The Ironmen worshiping the seven?!

[Socialist Czechia]

So you are just pretending that whole House Hoare thing (The Andal Overlord to the Iron Islands) Never happened? Aegon ended that, not the Ironmen.

btw. aren't you a brony?

you remind me guy who almost killed me by complaints, that Derpy Hooves was not called by whole name in MLP episode, so name her page 'Derpy Hooves' was almost crime against humanity for him, apparently

[Mormak]

So you are just pretending that whole House Hoare thing (The Andal Overlord to the Iron Islands) Never happened? Aegon ended that, not the Ironmen.

btw. aren't you a brony?

Did you just call me a fucking brony?

No i am not a "Brony".

[Socialist Czechia]

So...You do pretend it didn't happen?

In reality they won but spiritually they lost!

Seriously if House Hoare hadn't gone up in smoke because of Aegon, i have a feeling they would have remained under Andal rule forever, And by the way you are also incorrect. Lord's Port aka the seat of the King at Pyke had a sept, aka the seat for the faith of the Seven, Unbelievable isn't it? The Ironmen worshiping the seven?!

I've spoken about realities of Andal invasion.

not a word about aegon. not a word about hoare. andal invasion and it's aftermath has nothing to do with targaryens. your mind working in strange, almost scary ways, seriously.

in another words, someone brought confusion there now, and i am not that person
but if you trying simply to melt my brain, i resisted against much harder attempts...

[Socialist Czechia]

btw. aren't you a brony?

Did you just call me a fucking brony?

No i am not a "Brony".

that's ok man, dont deny it, everyone can love ponies. we are all friends there and you have full understanding *hug*

[Britanania]

Did you just call me a fucking brony?

No i am not a "Brony".

that's ok man, dont deny it, everyone can love ponies. we are all friends there and you have full understanding *hug*

I'm an open Brony, if that means anything to you.

[Mormak]

So...You do pretend it didn't happen?

In reality they won but spiritually they lost!

Seriously if House Hoare hadn't gone up in smoke because of Aegon, i have a feeling they would have remained under Andal rule forever, And by the way you are also incorrect. Lord's Port aka the seat of the King at Pyke had a sept, aka the seat for the faith of the Seven, Unbelievable isn't it? The Ironmen worshiping the seven?!

I've spoken about realities of Andal invasion.

not a word about aegon. not a word about hoare. andal invasion and it's aftermath has nothing to do with targaryens. your mind working in strange, almost scary ways, seriously.

in another words, someone brought confusion there now, and i am not that person
but if you trying simply to melt my brain, i resisted against much harder attempts...

No you spoke of your interpretation of the Invasion, which fails to account for an Andal House being the Overlord to the Iron Islands for several centuries, and the fact that Pyke had a bloody sept in it until Robert's Rebellion and...I see the Ironmen being content with being ruled over by their conquerors, their old gods like the rest of Westeros cast aside because, They were proven false by Andal strength.

And then i point out Greyjoy, the house appointed to Regency of the Isles, restored the Old Ways, after they were cast aside for Hoare and their adaption of the Seven.

I pretty much spelled out that the Andals won against the Ironmen, But Dragon fire ended it, and then i pointed out that if Hoare hadn't been ended in the Riverlands, i do believe that the Iron Islands would have remained under Andal Stewardship forever.

Did you just call me a fucking brony?

No i am not a "Brony".

that's ok man, dont deny it, everyone can love ponies. we are all friends there and you have full understanding *hug*

I will repeat for the final time, i do not have obsession with a poor quality animated children's show about ponies.

[Socialist Czechia]

that's ok man, dont deny it, everyone can love ponies. we are all friends there and you have full understanding *hug*

I'm an open Brony, if that means anything to you.

that's the spirit!

[Britanania]

I've spoken about realities of Andal invasion.

not a word about aegon. not a word about hoare. andal invasion and it's aftermath has nothing to do with targaryens. your mind working in strange, almost scary ways, seriously.

in another words, someone brought confusion there now, and i am not that person
but if you trying simply to melt my brain, i resisted against much harder attempts...

No you spoke of your interpretation of the Invasion, which fails to account for an Andal House being the Overlord to the Iron Islands for several centuries, and the fact that Pyke had a bloody sept in it until Robert's Rebellion and...I see the Ironmen being content with being ruled over by their conquerors, their old gods like the rest of Westeros cast aside because, They were proven false by Andal strength.

And then i point out Greyjoy, the house appointed to Regency of the Isles, restored the Old Ways, after they were cast aside for Hoare and their adaption of the Seven.

I pretty much spelled out that the Andals won against the Ironmen, But Dragon fire ended it, and then i pointed out that if Hoare hadn't been ended in the Riverlands, i do believe that the Iron Islands would have remained under Andal Stewardship forever.

that's ok man, dont deny it, everyone can love ponies. we are all friends there and you have full understanding *hug*

I will repeat for the final time, i do not have obsession with a poor quality animated children's show about ponies.

You got it all wrong, it isn't about ponies, it is abut friendship. Ponies just happen to be the characters in it.

I'm an open Brony, if that means anything to you.

that's the spirit!

I shan't

[Socialist Czechia]

No you spoke of your interpretation of the Invasion, which fails to account for an Andal House being the Overlord to the Iron Islands for several centuries, and the fact that Pyke had a bloody sept in it until Robert's Rebellion and...I see the Ironmen being content with being ruled over by their conquerors, their old gods like the rest of Westeros cast aside because, They were proven false by Andal strength.

And then i point out Greyjoy, the house appointed to Regency of the Isles, restored the Old Ways, after they were cast aside for Hoare and their adaption of the Seven.

I pretty much spelled out that the Andals won against the Ironmen, But Dragon fire ended it, and then i pointed out that if Hoare hadn't been ended in the Riverlands, i do believe that the Iron Islands would have remained under Andal Stewardship forever.

Harrag Hoare is cited by Aeron Damphair as an example of a great king that was chosen through a kingsmoot.

Aeron, drowned man and fanatic to the drowned god worship would not speak about Hoare king if he was 'andalous' so ergo for-Faith and against-the drowned god. he was chosen by Kingsmoot, which means Andals didn't even dared to appoint a lord as everywhere else, letting them to have this piece of unique First Men 'democracy' in the Iron Islands.

The religion of the Drowned God is old, dating back to before the Andal Invasion. The Andal invaders of the Iron Islands converted to the local religion rather than supplant it with the Seven as they did in the south of Westeros.

that's an official, GRRM's fact.

During the War of Conquest, Aegon the Conqueror pacified the ironborn and outlawed the custom, at least within Westeros, as the ironmen were allowed to prey on the shipping and settlements of the Free Cities and far away places.

And even Aegon, after he crushed them (with whole Riverlands rebelling, though, it's not like just Harrenhal fall to the dragons was only thing what defeated them), was not stupid to try them totally subjugate on their islands, which would be costly even for him. he mostly let them be, it seems, as long as they didn't interfered with westerosi affairs.

[New Frenco Empire]

If you consider a marriage alliance "bending the knee"...

Er, Do you forget the conquest of Dorne?

The Young Dragon wasn't a seasoned military commander and yet he still managed to bring Dorne kicking and screaming into the realm of the seven kingdoms, His weak kneed successor, was too Pius for his own good as many acclaim, Dorne had proven it could and would be conquered rapidly if you can merely breach the desert.

Guerrilla warfare falls flat on its face when you have to defend cities.

I have a feeling if Dorne had been reconquered and this time forced under direct oversight of the Crown, there wouldn't have been a repeat of the breakaway, The Dragon made the mistake of appointing a Tyrell when a Lannister, Baratheon or Blackfyre would have served far better.

The Reach was convenient given it's just up the road from Dorne, but there is too much bad blood between them for any successful governorship of their lands.

And the young dragon lost over 60,000 men in doing it, and, no matter what, still lost it after his death.

Speculate all you want, it wasn't until they were married in that they were finally subdued.

[Zentrut]

Shut the fuck up with your pony bullshit, it's not some profound shit about friendship, it's poorly fucking animated ponies. And this is a A Song of Ice and Fire roleplay, so keep your fucking horses on your own sites.

[Britanania]

Shut the fuck up with your pony bullshit, it's not some profound shit about friendship, it's poorly fucking animated ponies. And this is a A Song of Ice and Fire roleplay, so keep your fucking horses on your own sites.

No need for hostility (yeah, I realise that is a little funny given the topic is medieval style warfare)

[Zentrut]

Shut the fuck up with your pony bullshit, it's not some profound shit about friendship, it's poorly fucking animated ponies. And this is a A Song of Ice and Fire roleplay, so keep your fucking horses on your own sites.

No need for hostility (yeah, I realise that is a little funny given the topic is medieval style warfare)

I'll decide when I feel the need for hostility, sorry I don't agree with you about your "magical friendship" I hope Poles eat all your fucking horses.

[Britanania]

No need for hostility (yeah, I realise that is a little funny given the topic is medieval style warfare)

I'll decide when I feel the need for hostility, sorry I don't agree with you about your "magical friendship" I hope Poles eat all your fucking horses.

Fair enough, but let's save the hostility for the battlegrounds of Westeros, where actual horse worshippers can be slaughtered for the beliefs

[Socialist Czechia]

I hope Poles eat all your fucking horses.

Actually, people in Poland, particularly nationalists, are very touchy about horses due to long tradition of cavalry stuff.
Restaurant specialized on horse meat would burn very quickly there.

[Logistica Suprema]

No need for hostility (yeah, I realise that is a little funny given the topic is medieval style warfare)

I'll decide when I feel the need for hostility, sorry I don't agree with you about your "magical friendship" I hope Poles eat all your fucking horses.

1) You are acting on an incredibly unintelligent level, and I lament your intellect if you're being serious. If you're not, I can't tell. My apologizes under such a scenario.

2) Did you just suggest that the Polish peoples eat them? Good sir, if that conclusion is correct, you have something amiss about you.

[Socialist Czechia]

Shut the fuck up with your pony bullshit, it's not some profound shit about friendship, it's poorly fucking animated ponies. And this is a A Song of Ice and Fire roleplay, so keep your fucking horses on your own sites.

i simply couldn't help but a little ponytroll there, since Mormak is in his favourite mood to complain about tiny details, whine and moan, until opposition will surrender.

as is MLP annoying to you, unnecessary, unending flame wars about RL/fantasy/scifi stuff are highly annoying to me. always.

[Britanania]

I stand by my comment that pony hostility should be directed to killing Dothraki, people who actually worship horses.

[Zentrut]

I was lead to believe the Polish did eat horses, looks like another reason not to trust anyone. Hungarians then.

[New Frenco Empire]

Jesus fucking Christ, I don't like the MLP craze either, but there is no need for all the spite and bitching.