1914 AH RP - The Great War (OOC/Open)

[Ptolemais]

This is definitely alt history. Japan is taking places using as little force and disruption as possible while China is going guns a blazing looting, pillaging and murdering

[Granadeseret]

They're not separate faiths. I myself am Orthodox. Russian and Greek Orthodox exist only for administrative reasons in the church.

So? The Serbs, the Bulgarians, the Greeks, the Armenians ect. were under Ottoman occupation for a long time. Please tell me when they became majority Muslim. And the Ottomans were at the very least somewhat dynamic and fresh while the Roman empire was creaking, and had the majority of their empire filled with Muslims, and diden't have an Orthodox powerhouse until Russia came onto its own to protect the local faiths, while the Muslims have had Persia since the Romans came back.

Belarus, I will correct that in the next map. Again, this previous one was just a rough draft, and will need fine-tunning.

And the only real major disagreement between the Sunnis and Shias is who is supposed to be Caliph. Dosen't stop them from being considered seperate sects. So I'm going to consider the Russian Orthodox seperate in this timeline unless the Russian player agrees they recognize the Contantinople Patriarch as the supreme Orthdox authority, rather then the on in St. Petersburg or Moscow.

Listen, I'm Orthodox. We don't have a supreme Orthodox authority. We have a one among equals, and he's the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople.


And that entire region, right know is under Byzantine occupation, just like it was before. Where the hell do the Ottomans come in play here.[/quote]

I'm pointing out a historical similarity between the two to show how absurd claiming that just being under occupation by an ethnically and religiously different empire results well in mass conversions between the "organized" faiths (Such as Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, ect.). I'm pointing out that the Ottomans (A Muslim empire in the same territory as you are now, with the same sort of governing structure), occupied large areas of Christian territory for 600-500 years, and yet these did not convert en-mass to Islam. My point was about asserting all these areas full of ethnic Turks, Kurds, and Arabs converting to Orthodox Christianity is about as odd as it would have been if the Serbs, Bulgarians, ect. converted to Islam simply because some Turkish garrisons where there. In my nation, we were French people converting other French people, and impedding it into French culture and French language (with Iberian Arab influences), which is a bit strange but certainly possible, since the change came from within French society itself. Not to mention, there are significantly fewer Greeks under your control (That is a matter of terrain and climate: something AH dosen't change) then the much more numerous native Muslims, so displacing them via colonization is not a valid option either.

[Rio Cana]

It seem someone forgot that Romania is Romanian Orthodox.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Orthodox_Church

[Granadeseret]

It seem someone forgot that Romania is Romanian Orthodox.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Orthodox_Church

Due to Roman issues, I'm putting all the Orthodox under one large label of Orthodox. The 2nd draft will be updated very soon, with some tweaks made to make it more applicable.

[Granadeseret]

Alright, here it is...

http://i.imgur.com/OMfuncW.png

Alterations:

-Added a few more Catholics to the USA
-Russian, Greek, and various other European Orthodox faiths merged into plain Orthodox
-Small amount of Orthodox territories added
-Oriental Orthodoxy added a separate category
- Japanese mainland now Shinto
-Latvia and Estonia added as Protestant territories
-Ceylon added as Buddhist
-Gibraltar added as Protestant (As a town of Englishmen)

[Ptolemais]

Alright, here it is...

http://i.imgur.com/OMfuncW.png

Alterations:

-Added a few more Catholics to the USA
-Russian, Greek, and various other European Orthodox faiths merged into plain Orthodox
-Small amount of Orthodox territories added
-Oriental Orthodoxy added a separate category
- Japanese mainland now Shinto
-Latvia and Estonia added as Protestant territories
-Ceylon added as Buddhist
-Gibraltar added as Protestant (As a town of Englishmen)

Nicely done!

Once the RP gets going, I may do a map based on ideology.

[Dangelia]

So? The Serbs, the Bulgarians, the Greeks, the Armenians ect. were under Ottoman occupation for a long time. Please tell me when they became majority Muslim. And the Ottomans were at the very least somewhat dynamic and fresh while the Roman empire was creaking, and had the majority of their empire filled with Muslims, and diden't have an Orthodox powerhouse until Russia came onto its own to protect the local faiths, while the Muslims have had Persia since the Romans came back.

Belarus, I will correct that in the next map. Again, this previous one was just a rough draft, and will need fine-tunning.

And the only real major disagreement between the Sunnis and Shias is who is supposed to be Caliph. Dosen't stop them from being considered seperate sects. So I'm going to consider the Russian Orthodox seperate in this timeline unless the Russian player agrees they recognize the Contantinople Patriarch as the supreme Orthdox authority, rather then the on in St. Petersburg or Moscow.

Listen, I'm Orthodox. We don't have a supreme Orthodox authority. We have a one among equals, and he's the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople.


And that entire region, right know is under Byzantine occupation, just like it was before. Where the hell do the Ottomans come in play here.

I'm pointing out a historical similarity between the two to show how absurd claiming that just being under occupation by an ethnically and religiously different empire results well in mass conversions between the "organized" faiths (Such as Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, ect.). I'm pointing out that the Ottomans (A Muslim empire in the same territory as you are now, with the same sort of governing structure), occupied large areas of Christian territory for 600-500 years, and yet these did not convert en-mass to Islam. My point was about asserting all these areas full of ethnic Turks, Kurds, and Arabs converting to Orthodox Christianity is about as odd as it would have been if the Serbs, Bulgarians, ect. converted to Islam simply because some Turkish garrisons where there. In my nation, we were French people converting other French people, and impedding it into French culture and French language (with Iberian Arab influences), which is a bit strange but certainly possible, since the change came from within French society itself. Not to mention, there are significantly fewer Greeks under your control (That is a matter of terrain and climate: something AH dosen't change) then the much more numerous native Muslims, so displacing them via colonization is not a valid option either.[/quote]
Yes, but they have 2000 years for the whole place to be Christian.

[Atorea]

Is Britain taken?

[Ptolemais]

Is Britain taken?

Technically no, but there is a rebel group active in the country.

[Dangelia]

Also, Granadeseret, all of Illyria is Orthodox.

[Granadeseret]

Listen, I'm Orthodox. We don't have a supreme Orthodox authority. We have a one among equals, and he's the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople.


And that entire region, right know is under Byzantine occupation, just like it was before. Where the hell do the Ottomans come in play here.

I'm pointing out a historical similarity between the two to show how absurd claiming that just being under occupation by an ethnically and religiously different empire results well in mass conversions between the "organized" faiths (Such as Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, ect.). I'm pointing out that the Ottomans (A Muslim empire in the same territory as you are now, with the same sort of governing structure), occupied large areas of Christian territory for 600-500 years, and yet these did not convert en-mass to Islam. My point was about asserting all these areas full of ethnic Turks, Kurds, and Arabs converting to Orthodox Christianity is about as odd as it would have been if the Serbs, Bulgarians, ect. converted to Islam simply because some Turkish garrisons where there. In my nation, we were French people converting other French people, and impedding it into French culture and French language (with Iberian Arab influences), which is a bit strange but certainly possible, since the change came from within French society itself. Not to mention, there are significantly fewer Greeks under your control (That is a matter of terrain and climate: something AH dosen't change) then the much more numerous native Muslims, so displacing them via colonization is not a valid option either.

Yes, but they have 2000 years for the whole place to be Christian.[/quote]

... 2000 years? Really? You do realize Christianity hasn't even been around that long. Not to mention, you can't stomp Attila from driving the Turks south, nor their conversion to Islam very, very early on. Nor the Egyptians, which as you very well pointed out already were under Mameluke rule and thus filled with Muslims and Arabs by that point. Nor the Levant, which was part of the Arab/Muslim world before they got to Egypt. Only around 900 years ago, less then half of what you said, has anything seemed to change, and ultimately I'd like to point out: why would it? Why would these people accept something that is essentially an alien faith thrust on them by them by a conqueror who isn't even in remotely the same cultural group as then en-mass, especially when the mighty Persia is there to stand on their behalf (and for its own gain) if Rome even tries? It just doesn't make any sense, especially considering that the number of Greeks is just too few to make a noticeable cultural impact on a much larger local population.

Anyways, as for Ilyria, I'll give you Croatia, but Austria has already made it clear IC that central Bosnia is full of Muslims. I can't make a map that conflicts with what he says about his territory IC if he wrote it before the map was even conceived of.

[Dangelia]

[quote=Granadeseret]

I'm pointing out a historical similarity between the two to show how absurd claiming that just being under occupation by an ethnically and religiously different empire results well in mass conversions between the "organized" faiths (Such as Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, ect.). I'm pointing out that the Ottomans (A Muslim empire in the same territory as you are now, with the same sort of governing structure), occupied large areas of Christian territory for 600-500 years, and yet these did not convert en-mass to Islam. My point was about asserting all these areas full of ethnic Turks, Kurds, and Arabs converting to Orthodox Christianity is about as odd as it would have been if the Serbs, Bulgarians, ect. converted to Islam simply because some Turkish garrisons where there. In my nation, we were French people converting other French people, and impedding it into French culture and French language (with Iberian Arab influences), which is a bit strange but certainly possible, since the change came from within French society itself. Not to mention, there are significantly fewer Greeks under your control (That is a matter of terrain and climate: something AH dosen't change) then the much more numerous native Muslims, so displacing them via colonization is not a valid option either.

Yes, but they have 2000 years for the whole place to be Christian.

... 2000 years? Really? You do realize Christianity hasn't even been around that long. Not to mention, you can't stomp Attila from driving the Turks south, nor their conversion to Islam very, very early on. Nor the Egyptians, which as you very well pointed out already were under Mameluke rule and thus filled with Muslims and Arabs by that point. Nor the Levant, which was part of the Arab/Muslim world before they got to Egypt. Only around 900 years ago, less then half of what you said, has anything seemed to change, and ultimately I'd like to point out: why would it? Why would these people accept something that is essentially an alien faith thrust on them by them by a conqueror who isn't even in remotely the same cultural group as then en-mass, especially when the mighty Persia is there to stand on their behalf (and for its own gain) if Rome even tries? It just doesn't make any sense, especially considering that the number of Greeks is just too few to make a noticeable cultural impact on a much larger local population.

Anyways, as for Ilyria, I'll give you Croatia, but Austria has already made it clear IC that central Bosnia is full of Muslims. I can't make a map that conflicts with what he says about his territory IC if he wrote it before the map was even conceived of.[/quote]
But the ottomans never came. Are you confusing the Roman Empire with the Ottoman Empire.

[Granadeseret]

Yes, but they have 2000 years for the whole place to be Christian.

... 2000 years? Really? You do realize Christianity hasn't even been around that long. Not to mention, you can't stomp Attila from driving the Turks south, nor their conversion to Islam very, very early on. Nor the Egyptians, which as you very well pointed out already were under Mameluke rule and thus filled with Muslims and Arabs by that point. Nor the Levant, which was part of the Arab/Muslim world before they got to Egypt. Only around 900 years ago, less then half of what you said, has anything seemed to change, and ultimately I'd like to point out: why would it? Why would these people accept something that is essentially an alien faith thrust on them by them by a conqueror who isn't even in remotely the same cultural group as then en-mass, especially when the mighty Persia is there to stand on their behalf (and for its own gain) if Rome even tries? It just doesn't make any sense, especially considering that the number of Greeks is just too few to make a noticeable cultural impact on a much larger local population.

Anyways, as for Ilyria, I'll give you Croatia, but Austria has already made it clear IC that central Bosnia is full of Muslims. I can't make a map that conflicts with what he says about his territory IC if he wrote it before the map was even conceived of.

But the ottomans never came. Are you confusing the Roman Empire with the Ottoman Empire.[/quote]

... you're really not getting the point I'm trying to make here, do you?

I'm trying to make a situational comparison between the two. I'm not saying the Ottomans ever showed up on this map. I'm saying that the Roman empire, which was creaking with age LONG ago, and with a lower percentage of local members of its culture and religion in its territory then the Ottomans, AND which has/had a religious rival to intervene in the interests of its non-state religionists LONG before the Ottomans did IRL could not have done so much more spectacularly then their similar positioned and similarly governed IRL counterpart in the conversion department. Its just far too much of a stretch.

Besides, shouldn't Whiteshore be speaking about this situation instead? To be honest, what do you know about the Byzantine's way of doing things?

[Dangelia]

... 2000 years? Really? You do realize Christianity hasn't even been around that long. Not to mention, you can't stomp Attila from driving the Turks south, nor their conversion to Islam very, very early on. Nor the Egyptians, which as you very well pointed out already were under Mameluke rule and thus filled with Muslims and Arabs by that point. Nor the Levant, which was part of the Arab/Muslim world before they got to Egypt. Only around 900 years ago, less then half of what you said, has anything seemed to change, and ultimately I'd like to point out: why would it? Why would these people accept something that is essentially an alien faith thrust on them by them by a conqueror who isn't even in remotely the same cultural group as then en-mass, especially when the mighty Persia is there to stand on their behalf (and for its own gain) if Rome even tries? It just doesn't make any sense, especially considering that the number of Greeks is just too few to make a noticeable cultural impact on a much larger local population.

Anyways, as for Ilyria, I'll give you Croatia, but Austria has already made it clear IC that central Bosnia is full of Muslims. I can't make a map that conflicts with what he says about his territory IC if he wrote it before the map was even conceived of.

But the ottomans never came. Are you confusing the Roman Empire with the Ottoman Empire.

... you're really not getting the point I'm trying to make here, do you?

I'm trying to make a situational comparison between the two. I'm not saying the Ottomans ever showed up on this map. I'm saying that the Roman empire, which was creaking with age LONG ago, and with a lower percentage of local members of its culture and religion in its territory then the Ottomans, AND which has/had a religious rival to intervene in the interests of its non-state religionists LONG before the Ottomans did IRL could not have done so much more spectacularly then their similar positioned and similarly governed IRL counterpart in the conversion department. Its just far too much of a stretch.

Besides, shouldn't Whiteshore be speaking about this situation instead? To be honest, what do you know about the Byzantine's way of doing things?[/quote]
A lot. Even the Arabs in the Byzantine's territory were Christian. So why would they not be know in this RP. It wasn't just the Greeks.

[Granadeseret]

... not really. Syria had been thoroughly Muslimized by 800 C.E, long before the Byzantine Empire appears to be restored. The Turks were almost Muslim to the man, Jordan Islamized by the 800s as well. Iraq is a Persian domain, so no real questions there. Palestine seems to have a fairly large cogent of Muslim Palestinian Rebels, and was Muslim majority by the time of the Crusades (Indeed, any study of the Crusades will show the vast majority of the Arabs were Muslim by this point in time; and the Empire's restoration during the 1200's/1300's would have done nothing to change that). Egypt was claimed the latest by the Byzantines, and so has had very little time to convert even if it wasn't one of the most populace Islamic nations in the region with its own strong identity. Some Arabs sure. But a majority of them? Fairly low chance. Especially since they're literally Islam's core followers.

And, again, please try to only speak about your own nation in regards to history, or reference to what what has already been IC established by its owner.

[Dangelia]

... not really. Syria had been thoroughly Muslimized by 800 C.E, long before the Byzantine Empire appears to be restored. The Turks were almost Muslim to the man, Jordan Islamized by the 800s as well. Iraq is a Persian domain, so no real questions there. Palestine seems to have a fairly large cogent of Muslim Palestinian Rebels, and was Muslim majority by the time of the Crusades (Indeed, any study of the Crusades will show the vast majority of the Arabs were Muslim by this point in time; and the Empire's restoration during the 1200's/1300's would have done nothing to change that). Egypt was claimed the latest by the Byzantines, and so has had very little time to convert even if it wasn't one of the most populace Islamic nations in the region with its own strong identity. Some Arabs sure. But a majority of them? Fairly low chance. Especially since they're literally Islam's core followers.

And, again, please try to only speak about your own nation in regards to history, or reference to what what has already been IC established by its owner.

Before that, before Islam began.

[Carathon]

... not really. Syria had been thoroughly Muslimized by 800 C.E, long before the Byzantine Empire appears to be restored. The Turks were almost Muslim to the man, Jordan Islamized by the 800s as well. Iraq is a Persian domain, so no real questions there. Palestine seems to have a fairly large cogent of Muslim Palestinian Rebels, and was Muslim majority by the time of the Crusades (Indeed, any study of the Crusades will show the vast majority of the Arabs were Muslim by this point in time; and the Empire's restoration during the 1200's/1300's would have done nothing to change that). Egypt was claimed the latest by the Byzantines, and so has had very little time to convert even if it wasn't one of the most populace Islamic nations in the region with its own strong identity. Some Arabs sure. But a majority of them? Fairly low chance. Especially since they're literally Islam's core followers.

And, again, please try to only speak about your own nation in regards to history, or reference to what what has already been IC established by its owner.

Before that, before Islam began.

Why do you care so much about the Byzantines / Romans? Let the nation's owner settle it's religion.

[Granadeseret]

... not really. Syria had been thoroughly Muslimized by 800 C.E, long before the Byzantine Empire appears to be restored. The Turks were almost Muslim to the man, Jordan Islamized by the 800s as well. Iraq is a Persian domain, so no real questions there. Palestine seems to have a fairly large cogent of Muslim Palestinian Rebels, and was Muslim majority by the time of the Crusades (Indeed, any study of the Crusades will show the vast majority of the Arabs were Muslim by this point in time; and the Empire's restoration during the 1200's/1300's would have done nothing to change that). Egypt was claimed the latest by the Byzantines, and so has had very little time to convert even if it wasn't one of the most populace Islamic nations in the region with its own strong identity. Some Arabs sure. But a majority of them? Fairly low chance. Especially since they're literally Islam's core followers.

And, again, please try to only speak about your own nation in regards to history, or reference to what what has already been IC established by its owner.

Before that, before Islam began.

... so? Islam DID begin, and it DID spread (It couldn't not have, since we have Muslim countries) . That statement is thus highly irrelevant.

[Dangelia]

Before that, before Islam began.

... so? Islam DID begin, and it DID spread (It couldn't not have, since we have Muslim countries) . That statement is thus highly irrelevant.

Yes, but Islam came and stayed because Islamic armies kicked the Byzantines out of the Middle East. That hasn't happened in this RP.

Look: http://geacron.com/en/?v=m&lang=en&z=2& ... &re=0&nv=2

So essentially, that area became Muslim after the Byzantines weren't there.

[Granadeseret]

... so? Islam DID begin, and it DID spread (It couldn't not have, since we have Muslim countries) . That statement is thus highly irrelevant.

Yes, but Islam came and stayed because Islamic armies kicked the Byzantines out of the Middle East. That hasn't happened in this RP.

How do you know? How are you in ANY sort of position to know that? The Byzantines are the only ones who get to make that sort of decision, not you. Besides, the Arabs clearly got there, and they clearly stayed: why is this so hard for you to grasp? Decrepit Byzantium holding off the masses of Turks and Arabs coming in entirely is just far too radical of a shift to be acceptable: all I did was just conquer a tiny thin strip of land extra filled with starving peasants on the ropes, you're saying they manged to hold off some of the best fighters of the age during periods of great disorder on the far fringes of their empire when under attack from all sides.

[Serbian Kosovo]

Granad, what country are you RPing anyway?

[Trotskyivarian Neo Russia]

Russia has been declared Anti-Theist by the Communist Party

Please don't. Just remain a secular state.

Fine.



Also where is there an updated map?

[Dangelia]

Please don't. Just remain a secular state.

Fine.



Also where is there an updated map?

Thank you!

[Granadeseret]

Granad, what country are you RPing anyway?

The Capet Caliphate. Also known as France. I want to post IC, but I'm trying to work out all the bugs out of the religion map first.

[Ruridova]

Please don't. Just remain a secular state.

Fine.



Also where is there an updated map?

I've been busy today, but I'll try to get to it as soon as I can.