The Man in the Sand Castle (Nazi-World RP: OOC)

[Photana]

To be honest, Japan seems to be only weakening it's position by promoting warfare between it's puppets. War is rarely a constructive effort. I'm predicting that the Japanese will soon have to deal with either two much stronger puppets, or three useless puppets that can't provide much in the way of resources or troops to the homeland.

[Aldelxane]

Another couple clarifications:
1. The partisans are not demanding anything from the refugees. Food is taken from the environment. (Lots of dead deer, but that can't be helped)
2. The Germans literally cannot retreat, unless they swim the rivers, get airlifted out, or wait for spring and build another bridge (The partisans destroyed all of the bridges)
3. It's a bit of an overstatement that ALL who try to make the journey die. They've been starving for 15 years due to the Germans blocking convoys, that's why there are only 10 million of them. They've survived 14 other winters. They know how to take care of themselves.
4. The Ural garrisons are likely starving too

[Senkaku]

To be honest, Japan seems to be only weakening it's position by promoting warfare between it's puppets. War is rarely a constructive effort. I'm predicting that the Japanese will soon have to deal with either two much stronger puppets, or three useless puppets that can't provide much in the way of resources or troops to the homeland.

The Japanese are already suffering from rice shortages due to the Southern war. Now they want wheat shortages from North China, and coal and iron shortages from Manchukuo? Their stock market is suffering enough.


And I'm hardly playing China as a superpower. A few hundred thousand soldiers, a couple of swelled egos, and a single, small carrier does not a superpower make.

[Marsisian]

Anything related to Italy?

[Granadeseret]

Another couple clarifications:
1. The partisans are not demanding anything from the refugees. Food is taken from the environment. (Lots of dead deer, but that can't be helped)
2. The Germans literally cannot retreat, unless they swim the rivers, get airlifted out, or wait for spring and build another bridge (The partisans destroyed all of the bridges)
3. It's a bit of an overstatement that ALL who try to make the journey die. They've been starving for 15 years due to the Germans blocking convoys, that's why there are only 10 million of them. They've survived 14 other winters. They know how to take care of themselves.
4. The Ural garrisons are likely starving too

1) Well, the fact is supplies in Banditenland are very, very scarce: they have no trade, any black market routes in would be clamped down on at this point, and industry and infrastructural are next to none: there just isen't enough for the Partisans to shift from part-time workers to full time fighters en-mass and now end up with shortfalls of things like blankets, firewood, tools, ect. Not to mention, they can't exactly carry large numbers of these things with them, because in such deep snow they would sink in and get trapped, even if a troop made largely of women, old men, and children could carry the weight in the first place.

2) They can throw up pontoon bridges: there are plenty of forests, if there are plenty of deer, and so they have ample wood to work with, and have the advantage of power tools and trained engineers.

3) They didn't all die: but working on minimal food (Hunting, to be fair, is not a very efficient way to get food, even assuming they can even work out the massive logistical effort of getting it to and distributing it among a moving population with no roads and minimal manpower... and find a way to cook all of it in the middle of a snowstorm. And its not like the Partisans can devot too much of their manpower either: if one Partisan is working with every group of twenty, that means you already have about 6% of your total population tied down... which is about as much mobalization as the population of Banditenland could take. All the men actually fighting the Germans then will have to be already from the non-Bandit portion of the F.R.L, which will be needed to keep up the pressure on the Germans

4) I'm going with a 3 months food assumption for the garrison (If its their most vulnerable supply point, the Germans must have stockpiled SOMETHING there): probably knocked down to 2 by Siberian air raids. Next random event they'll be starved out if the Germans can't re-establish connections.

5) Siberia is not ignoring the Refugees; they've set up Refugee camps on the other side of the Urals, after all. However, all of their transport capacity is tied up organizing the attack on Germany; they don't exactly have much to spare to ship civilians further into Siberian territory. Not to mention, with the rapidity of the migration they diden't have much time to prepare. The situation will slowly sort itself out, but the Russians are in for a tough winter.

6) Then the Partisans, if they're assisting them, are tying up their desperately needed manpower. I'll edit that in, but it won't change too much practically speaking.

[Aldelxane]

Another couple clarifications:
1. The partisans are not demanding anything from the refugees. Food is taken from the environment. (Lots of dead deer, but that can't be helped)
2. The Germans literally cannot retreat, unless they swim the rivers, get airlifted out, or wait for spring and build another bridge (The partisans destroyed all of the bridges)
3. It's a bit of an overstatement that ALL who try to make the journey die. They've been starving for 15 years due to the Germans blocking convoys, that's why there are only 10 million of them. They've survived 14 other winters. They know how to take care of themselves.
4. The Ural garrisons are likely starving too

1) Well, the fact is supplies in Banditenland are very, very scarce: they have no trade, any black market routes in would be clamped down on at this point, and industry and infrastructural are next to none: there just isen't enough for the Partisans to shift from part-time workers to full time fighters en-mass and now end up with shortfalls of things like blankets, firewood, tools, ect. Not to mention, they can't exactly carry large numbers of these things with them, because in such deep snow they would sink in and get trapped, even if a troop made largely of women, old men, and children could carry the weight in the first place.

2) They can throw up pontoon bridges: there are plenty of forests, if there are plenty of deer, and so they have ample wood to work with, and have the advantage of power tools and trained engineers.

3) They didn't all die: but working on minimal food (Hunting, to be fair, is not a very efficient way to get food, even assuming they can even work out the massive logistical effort of getting it to and distributing it among a moving population with no roads and minimal manpower... and find a way to cook all of it in the middle of a snowstorm. And its not like the Partisans can devot too much of their manpower either: if one Partisan is working with every group of twenty, that means you already have about 6% of your total population tied down... which is about as much mobalization as the population of Banditenland could take. All the men actually fighting the Germans then will have to be already from the non-Bandit portion of the F.R.L, which will be needed to keep up the pressure on the Germans

4) I'm going with a 3 months food assumption for the garrison (If its their most vulnerable supply point, the Germans must have stockpiled SOMETHING there): probably knocked down to 2 by Siberian air raids. Next random event they'll be starved out if the Germans can't re-establish connections.

5) Siberia is not ignoring the Refugees; they've set up Refugee camps on the other side of the Urals, after all. However, all of their transport capacity is tied up organizing the attack on Germany; they don't exactly have much to spare to ship civilians further into Siberian territory. Not to mention, with the rapidity of the migration they diden't have much time to prepare. The situation will slowly sort itself out, but the Russians are in for a tough winter.

6) Then the Partisans, if they're assisting them, are tying up their desperately needed manpower. I'll edit that in, but it won't change too much practically speaking.

Honestly I think I made a mess of my original post on the evacuation.... I need to rework it if it'll be at all clear, TBH.
As I said at some point, they haven't had any trade for 15 years, supplies have been scarce for 15 years, and winters have been hard for 15 years. This winter isn't all that unique. People have likely been moving for 15 years, as towns in Banditenland are under a constant threat of attack from the Germans.
Also, you said something like "4/10 died, and the rest died in Siberia"

[Photana]

To be honest, Japan seems to be only weakening it's position by promoting warfare between it's puppets. War is rarely a constructive effort. I'm predicting that the Japanese will soon have to deal with either two much stronger puppets, or three useless puppets that can't provide much in the way of resources or troops to the homeland.

The Japanese are already suffering from rice shortages due to the Southern war. Now they want wheat shortages from North China, and coal and iron shortages from Manchukuo? Their stock market is suffering enough.


And I'm hardly playing China as a superpower. A few hundred thousand soldiers, a couple of swelled egos, and a single, small carrier does not a superpower make.

I mean I can understand the fact that they are scared of a unified China, the shear troop force might be able to throw the Japanese back to the sea, and have Korea, or part of it at least.

And I think Manchukuo will be able to supply Japan with adequate food for the time being, unless something happens to the harvest before it's sent to Tokyo.

[Lunas Legion]

The Japanese are already suffering from rice shortages due to the Southern war. Now they want wheat shortages from North China, and coal and iron shortages from Manchukuo? Their stock market is suffering enough.


And I'm hardly playing China as a superpower. A few hundred thousand soldiers, a couple of swelled egos, and a single, small carrier does not a superpower make.

I mean I can understand the fact that they are scared of a unified China, the shear troop force might be able to throw the Japanese back to the sea, and have Korea, or part of it at least.

And I think Manchukuo will be able to supply Japan with adequate food for the time being, unless something happens to the harvest before it's sent to Tokyo.

Purely out of interest, which nation are you in the RP since you aren't on the OP (or I'm blind?)

[Carathon]

The Wehrmacht forces in Banditenland will probably throw up a few temporary camps in large groups ( to deter partisans ) while sappers begin working on temporary bridges ( it isn't really difficult to put up temporary bridges with a plentiful supply of wood and time. ) Helicopters and air transports will supply to make up for equipment shortfalls and airlift out critical persons and some injured. Not to say the Germans didn't have a harsh winter - perhaps casualties will be 30-15 thousand?

The garrison in the Urals indeed stockpiled quite a few supplies, though they're out of range of resupply by land ( partisans harassment ) and air. The supplies they have stockpiled aren't going to last the whole winter thanks to Siberian bombing. They'll probably disregard High Command's orders and offer to allow Siberian refugees to enter Siberia safely in exchange for food. ( Though they'll probably be savvy to Partisans attempts to poison food or the like. )

[Granadeseret]

To be honest, Japan seems to be only weakening it's position by promoting warfare between it's puppets. War is rarely a constructive effort. I'm predicting that the Japanese will soon have to deal with either two much stronger puppets, or three useless puppets that can't provide much in the way of resources or troops to the homeland.

The Japanese are already suffering from rice shortages due to the Southern war. Now they want wheat shortages from North China, and coal and iron shortages from Manchukuo? Their stock market is suffering enough.


And I'm hardly playing China as a superpower. A few hundred thousand soldiers, a couple of swelled egos, and a single, small carrier does not a superpower make.

If Republican China starts to try to stop shipments to the Home Islands, the Imperial Fleet might get involved itself? Certainly, Japan will be smarting, but they can't afford to have a united China: that runs too much of a risk for them. They know the Republic can't take this kind of war,


1. Being able to complete overrun the just-as-populace Southern Kingdom without great string to your own nation. Fighting an essentially-equal should take most of what your country has, particulary since your enemy is on the defensive and you lack the local industry to pull of Blitzkreig, forcing you to go back to Great War-style conflict... something in which the defender is at a vast advantage.
2. Having a nuclear program: this is something, at this time, only a superpower could pull off, with nuclear weaponry in its infancy. Same thing with a carrier: this is something, if you look at the naval make-up of the time, only superpowers built: not to mention, you're certainly be under arms restrictions by Tokyo to not be able to build such an advanced weapon.
3.You say you have the industry to support a large modern army, with modern infrastructure to support a logistical campaign into the south en-mass. China has basically no industry yet.
4. Being able to do all that, AND still manage to preform subduing operations on in West AND pay your tribute/reperations to Tokyo without your economy spiralling into a tale-spin. That is fairly superpower-esque, by my judgement.

[Aldelxane]

The Wehrmacht forces in Banditenland will probably throw up a few temporary camps in large groups ( to deter partisans ) while sappers begin working on temporary bridges ( it isn't really difficult to put up temporary bridges with a plentiful supply of wood and time. ) Helicopters and air transports will supply to make up for equipment shortfalls and airlift out critical persons and some injured. Not to say the Germans didn't have a harsh winter - perhaps casualties will be 30-15 thousand?

The garrison in the Urals indeed stockpiled quite a few supplies, though they're out of range of resupply by land ( partisans harassment ) and air. The supplies they have stockpiled aren't going to last the whole winter thanks to Siberian bombing. They'll probably disregard High Command's orders and offer to allow Siberian refugees to enter Siberia safely in exchange for food. ( Though they'll probably be savvy to Partisans attempts to poison food or the like. )

They get food if they agree to withdraw in the summer, AND allow refugees to enter. The F.R.L won't try to poison food if they agree to that.

[Carathon]

The Wehrmacht forces in Banditenland will probably throw up a few temporary camps in large groups ( to deter partisans ) while sappers begin working on temporary bridges ( it isn't really difficult to put up temporary bridges with a plentiful supply of wood and time. ) Helicopters and air transports will supply to make up for equipment shortfalls and airlift out critical persons and some injured. Not to say the Germans didn't have a harsh winter - perhaps casualties will be 30-15 thousand?

The garrison in the Urals indeed stockpiled quite a few supplies, though they're out of range of resupply by land ( partisans harassment ) and air. The supplies they have stockpiled aren't going to last the whole winter thanks to Siberian bombing. They'll probably disregard High Command's orders and offer to allow Siberian refugees to enter Siberia safely in exchange for food. ( Though they'll probably be savvy to Partisans attempts to poison food or the like. )

They get food if they agree to withdraw in the summer, AND allow refugees to enter. The F.R.L won't try to poison food if they agree to that.

When starvation starts to set in, they'll agree to do just about anything except actually surrender ( since even the most desperate German knows they'll be killed instantly anyways. )

[Photana]

I mean I can understand the fact that they are scared of a unified China, the shear troop force might be able to throw the Japanese back to the sea, and have Korea, or part of it at least.

And I think Manchukuo will be able to supply Japan with adequate food for the time being, unless something happens to the harvest before it's sent to Tokyo.

Purely out of interest, which nation are you in the RP since you aren't on the OP (or I'm blind?)

I'm interested but undecided. Though I may take over one of the rebel movements.

[Aldelxane]

They get food if they agree to withdraw in the summer, AND allow refugees to enter. The F.R.L won't try to poison food if they agree to that.

When starvation starts to set in, they'll agree to do just about anything except actually surrender ( since even the most desperate German knows they'll be killed instantly anyways. )

Not really. Here's the procedure:
1. ALL POWs go to trial
2. Those convicted of war crimes go before the firing squad
3. Those not convicted of war crimes are imprisoned in Siberia in decent living conditions
(not jail conditions, but still imprisoned)

[Carathon]

When starvation starts to set in, they'll agree to do just about anything except actually surrender ( since even the most desperate German knows they'll be killed instantly anyways. )

Not really. Here's the procedure:
1. ALL POWs go to trial
2. Those convicted of war crimes go before the firing squad
3. Those not convicted of war crimes are imprisoned in Siberia in decent living conditions
(not jail conditions, but still imprisoned)

They don't know that, and if they did they probably wouldn't believe it. Why would they be treated nicely if they just got finished firing upon starving fleeing civilians who attempted to escape to Siberia?

[Aldelxane]

Not really. Here's the procedure:
1. ALL POWs go to trial
2. Those convicted of war crimes go before the firing squad
3. Those not convicted of war crimes are imprisoned in Siberia in decent living conditions
(not jail conditions, but still imprisoned)

They don't know that, and if they did they probably wouldn't believe it. Why would they be treated nicely if they just got finished firing upon starving fleeing civilians who attempted to escape to Siberia?

True, they probably have all committed war crimes by now. What if I just execute the commanding officers?
(The alternative to surrender is them going back to Germany in the summer, as I want them out of the Urals)

[Carathon]

They don't know that, and if they did they probably wouldn't believe it. Why would they be treated nicely if they just got finished firing upon starving fleeing civilians who attempted to escape to Siberia?

True, they probably have all committed war crimes by now. What if I just execute the commanding officers?
(The alternative to surrender is them going back to Germany in the summer, as I want them out of the Urals)

Even then, probably not. Once again, they fired upon * starving * refugees. Most soldiers think they'll probably be put into a concentration camp or starved to death. Though they're willing to disregard orders from High Command for food ( like, as previously stating, letting refugees past. ) They'll probably agree to go back to Germany in the Summer.

[Aldelxane]

True, they probably have all committed war crimes by now. What if I just execute the commanding officers?
(The alternative to surrender is them going back to Germany in the summer, as I want them out of the Urals)

Even then, probably not. Once again, they fired upon * starving * refugees. Most soldiers think they'll probably be put into a concentration camp or starved to death. Though they're willing to disregard orders from High Command for food ( like, as previously stating, letting refugees past. ) They'll probably agree to go back to Germany in the Summer.

True, them being used to what Germany is, they probably think everybody is like that.
If they agreed, would they actually do it?

[Lunas Legion]

Purely out of interest, which nation are you in the RP since you aren't on the OP (or I'm blind?)

I'm interested but undecided. Though I may take over one of the rebel movements.

Take Japan. We really, really, need a Japan badly.

[Carathon]

Even then, probably not. Once again, they fired upon * starving * refugees. Most soldiers think they'll probably be put into a concentration camp or starved to death. Though they're willing to disregard orders from High Command for food ( like, as previously stating, letting refugees past. ) They'll probably agree to go back to Germany in the Summer.

True, them being used to what Germany is, they probably think everybody is like that.
If they agreed, would they actually do it?

Pretty much.

Honestly, no - not unless they run out of supplies ( in the summer ) or High Command orders them to. You might get a few deserters and some dissent in the garrisons, but ( assuming they get resupplied ) they won't leave the Urals of their own initiative.

[Aldelxane]

True, them being used to what Germany is, they probably think everybody is like that.
If they agreed, would they actually do it?

Pretty much.

Honestly, no - not unless they run out of supplies ( in the summer ) or High Command orders them to. You might get a few deserters and some dissent in the garrisons, but ( assuming they get resupplied ) they won't leave the Urals of their own initiative.

I guess I'll allocate some partisans to start a bombardment then, and let them starve. If they stay there, I'm not accepting anything. It's honestly easier to kill them then to provide food for them when I have to feed my refugees, and I don't want to have to deal with them in the summer.

[Carathon]

Pretty much.

Honestly, no - not unless they run out of supplies ( in the summer ) or High Command orders them to. You might get a few deserters and some dissent in the garrisons, but ( assuming they get resupplied ) they won't leave the Urals of their own initiative.

I guess I'll allocate some partisans to start a bombardment then, and let them starve. If they stay there, I'm not accepting anything. It's honestly easier to kill them then to provide food for them when I have to feed my refugees, and I don't want to have to deal with them in the summer.

Seems sort of metagamey.

Anyhow, it really depends on what happens. If Germany can't establish a supply link ( unlikely at this point ) they'll probably withdraw.

[Aldelxane]

I guess I'll allocate some partisans to start a bombardment then, and let them starve. If they stay there, I'm not accepting anything. It's honestly easier to kill them then to provide food for them when I have to feed my refugees, and I don't want to have to deal with them in the summer.

Seems sort of metagamey.

Anyhow, it really depends on what happens. If Germany can't establish a supply link ( unlikely at this point ) they'll probably withdraw.

Not really, I'm only feeding you if you get on your knees and beg, as I said I have enough trouble feeding the refugees as it is.

[Zepplien]

Anything related to Italy?

The collapse of the Guilder should have major shock waves across the entire Axis, the Dutch control the only supply of rubber into Europe, along with primary supplies of coffee, and sugar. The Dutch Guilder collapse would also wreak the oil market, as they would control about half with their takeover of Libya
Without American goods, rationing will be needed, and production of anything mechanical will grind to a halt

Also, to the Commies, I smell a nice juicy loophole in your contract

[Aldelxane]

How big, well equipped, and well trained are the armies of Siberia, Turkomenistan, and Transamur?