New Imperialism - AH RP v 1.2 [OOC, Signup]

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

Except the vast majority of the "masters" rose from poverty and being "servants" and became big, massive, robber barons. There are a few who didn't, but most did. At least in America anyways.

That was actually an allusion to something that a very French thinker said. Masters being the colonizers, servants being the colonials.

Ah! Well in that case, I agreeish. Colonies really served one purpose, get the Motherland (or for some Fatherland) lots of cash.

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

How effective would a Literacy Campaign be around this time?

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

How effective would a Literacy Campaign be around this time?

Is it in Italy or the Colonies? If it is in the Colonies what language are you trying to teach them?

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

How effective would a Literacy Campaign be around this time?

Is it in Italy or the Colonies? If it is in the Colonies what language are you trying to teach them?

Italian, i wouldn't assume many of them have Alphabets, (This ignoring the Arabs of course)
and in Italy as well
(Hell maybe i can save my Grandfather from illiteracy XD)

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

Is it in Italy or the Colonies? If it is in the Colonies what language are you trying to teach them?

Italian, i wouldn't assume many of them have Alphabets, (This ignoring the Arabs of course)
and in Italy as well
(Hell maybe i can save my Grandfather from illiteracy XD)

I'd say it would certainly work in Italy, and possibly the more African colonies. Anything Arab I'd say doesn't have much of a chance.

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

Italian, i wouldn't assume many of them have Alphabets, (This ignoring the Arabs of course)
and in Italy as well
(Hell maybe i can save my Grandfather from illiteracy XD)

I'd say it would certainly work in Italy, and possibly the more African colonies. Anything Arab I'd say doesn't have much of a chance.

In Libya and Assyria, with the low populations can easily be Italianized Now Egypt.....that is far more difficult

[The Grand Republic of Hannover]

I see. The policy, although with good intentions, will ultimately fail. Again, identity is a very strong feeling. This policy would only encourage a stronger sense of identity: "Them and Us" (as separate).

COuld you go into more detail

Emilie Durkheim - exquisite ideas he had - tell us that why do we need to go on endless debates looking for the answer on how society was created. He says that there is an absolute truth (just like Nietzsche said about inequality), that humans are and have been social since the beginning of their existence. He says that what we need to worry about is not how society was created but how groups were. How identity was created. How the "we" and "them" were created. He uses the structure of religion to come up with the answer but asserts that this answer is adaptable to any example. Durkheim argues that there needs to be 3 factors to create a community, a group, a "we" as separete from "them": a Church, Symbols, and Rituals.

-A Church: Not a building but the community. To create a community it is necessary that the people are together in one place, and then as they grow, it extends to an imaginary community.

-Symbols: Durkheim says that the Cross, the Bible, etc. are symbols of Catholicism.

-A Ritual: Mass on Sundays. An activity that all the community can engage in as if they were one.

Durkheim says that after some time the people begin to feel as if they are identified with something - Humans are social after all, they need an identity, they need a community, they need to be part of something. Then, the ritual becomes something more and more potent, and as other people do it, you join in. Energy accumulates, it builds up. Then, after my teacher says it, they enter into a state of ecstasy or as he said a "climax", where we all feel like one. Why during the World Cup, the people sing so loudly and so passionately their anthem? Why as a group sings, you feel attracted to doing it as well? Why do you feel that energy, those chills through your body? Durkheim would answer with one simple phrase: Because everyone is one. It's not anymore a "Me", "You", "He", "That person that is chewing so loudly over there", but a simple "Us". An ecstatic state, that Durkheim tell us, would make us do things that we would not do "normally". Nazi rallies, book burnings, nationalism, Yankee Fans, 49ers fans, Real Madrid fans, etc, etc. "We", "This is us", "We are unique", "We are above anyone else". Take a look at the college that burned down a few months ago; the students' team won a championship so "Let's burn down the campus!".

Experiences that the community have, both negative and positive, unites them. 9/11, Pearl Harbor, the Declaration of Independence, the defeat of the Spanish Armada, etc, etc. These can mark a very important symbol of unity: "Remember the Alamo", "We, Germans, were forced to sign an unjust treaty", "Viva la France!". The people in the community becomes more united than ever before.

But how does this tie to the African Colonies? Let's take a look:

-Church: We. Not someone in Italy but we. My neighbor, my sister. Us, the people who are govern ourselves.
-Symbols: Not the Italian Eagle. Our symbols, the symbols created throughout the ages and implanted in our community. A pragmatic person would ask: "Why would millions of Muslims get outraged if a small group of people half-a-world away burns 1000 Koran? There are millions of copies after all." Simple. Durkheim would say that it is a symbol of a community. So sacred that the most minimal offense to that object is a direct attack to all of them even if they have never seen that specific physical copy ever. The same applies to every community. The African Colonies will follow their culture, their symbols, not "an ordinary eagle" as they would see it. Autonomy (I am not against or for it in this debate) would let them feel the same. "We", "Italy? You mean our community. We are not Italians and we will never be".
-Rituals: Self evident. Their culture, their own anthems, holidays, etc. "You mean it is a national holiday? I guess you were referring in Italy, we don't follow that in here".

EDIT: Sorry for taking so long to respond. I am currently typing from a phone.

[Caltarania]

Hey ICD y'know what day it is today, right?

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

Hey ICD y'know what day it is today, right?

Yes i am aware that it is Canada day.

[Caltarania]

Hey ICD y'know what day it is today, right?

Yes i am aware that it is Canada day.

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooh Can-a-da!

[Marsisian]

So ICD, you were asking me about Cadiz and all that stuff?

[Rephesus]

Yus, Canada stronk.

Happy Canada Day

[Alleniana]

No i really could, you suffered a massive mutiny and a mini civil war recently

Do look at Italy and Russia in 1900. You are committing masses of forces to keeping stability in Assyria and your new African territory, whereas my military is concentrated in the west. Your navy is bottlenecks in in the Mediterranean, whereas I have Baltic, Black Sea and Pacific ports, plus it just so happens that most of your neighbours hate you, and many of them happen to be allied with Eurasia.

Like I said, feel free to try, I won't hold back.

You also just underwent something on the magnitude of the Russian Revolution with comparable effects, and aren't industrialised.

Russia was easy to beat in ww1, which in fact is the closest war to where we are now, and Italy? not so much

Russia wasn't beaten, it had a revolution and was forced to pull out.

Yus, Canada stronk.

Happy Canada Day

huehuehue
HUEHUEHUEHUEHUE
huehuehue

Is this discussion about Italy/Russia still in productive realms? It feels like most of it is talking about mostly irrelevant or hypothetical stuff now, and I'd like to avoid those numbered lists that stomp through the thread like elephants if possible.

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

Your last mega-post wasn't that mega and wasn't that funny you are not getting a bless this time, Allen.

[Alleniana]

Your last mega-post wasn't that mega and wasn't that funny you are not getting a bless this time, Allen.

D:
But political debates kill the funnies

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

Your last mega-post wasn't that mega and wasn't that funny you are not getting a bless this time, Allen.

D:
But political debates kill the funnies

Well actually if you read some of the debates it was funny as shit.

It wasn't even like an actual debate more of an OOC nationalism pissing contest between Italy and Eurasia over who would suck less at a hypothetical war ICly.

[Rephesus]

Instigating isn't preventing.

The inclusion if Hues was admirable tho.

[Rephesus]

D:
But political debates kill the funnies

Well actually if you read some of the debates it was funny as shit.

It wasn't even like an actual debate more of an OOC nationalism pissing contest between Italy and Eurasia over who would suck less at a hypothetical war ICly.

Well Italy hasn't been good at war since the Roman Era, and Russia hasn't been anything less than a military Juggernaught and bane of East Europe/Central Asia since after the Mongols collapsed.

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

Roman Era, and Russia hasn't been anything less than a military Juggernaught and bane of East Europe/Central Asia since after the Mongols collapsed.

This Italy is completely different form the actual Italy so I mean that argument doesn't really work. This Eurasia is also greatly different from actual Russia so again like shhh.

[Alleniana]

D:
But political debates kill the funnies

Well actually if you read some of the debates it was funny as shit.

It wasn't even like an actual debate more of an OOC nationalism pissing contest between Italy and Eurasia over who would suck less at a hypothetical war ICly.

I've seen too many of those, though. There was an entire other thread filled with this crap; 500 pages of it.

Well actually if you read some of the debates it was funny as shit.

It wasn't even like an actual debate more of an OOC nationalism pissing contest between Italy and Eurasia over who would suck less at a hypothetical war ICly.

Well Italy hasn't been good at war since the Roman Era, and Russia hasn't been anything less than a military Juggernaught and bane of East Europe/Central Asia since after the Mongols collapsed.

But for the fact that the POD was theoretically before Rome, and the realism was dictated by the merits of how much sense it made from an arbitrarily set point onwards, rather than from the POD.

[Rephesus]

Roman Era, and Russia hasn't been anything less than a military Juggernaught and bane of East Europe/Central Asia since after the Mongols collapsed.

This Italy is completely different form the actual Italy so I mean that argument doesn't really work. This Eurasia is also greatly different from actual Russia so again like shhh.

I'm just pointing out the similarities. Yes we are all very much stronger than the RL counterparts (With exceptions, like Britain), but honestly it's ludicrous to assume even ITTL that Italy could beat Eurasia in a total war scenario.

[Rephesus]

How is it Theoretically before Rome?

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

Anyway so Royal Wedding!

[Alleniana]

How is it Theoretically before Rome?

I left the POD open to interpretation; anytime after the evolution of modern humans.

Anyway so Royal Wedding!

Have you hired the photographers and the dressmakers and the Arabian nationalist terrorists and the receptionists?

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

How is it Theoretically before Rome?

I left the POD open to interpretation; anytime after the evolution of modern humans.

Anyway so Royal Wedding!

Have you hired the photographers and the dressmakers and the Arabian nationalist terrorists and the receptionists?

Not officially no because ICD needs to send me a letter back then I shall begin planning.