2014 - Real World RP (OOC/SIGNUPS/OLD THREAD)

[Waztaskio]

But yea, stalin still had it on the basis of communism, but he made his own changes to it. Bolivia could be doing something like that only with socalism.

"Yes, when a general throws out an elected socialist government to establish himself as a dictator, there's a chance he might be a socalist too!"

No, Waz, that's not how it works.

Um-..are you aware that Bolivia has so many coups people just don't even care anymore? Bolivia is really unstable, and Bolivia has had many dictators through these coups. May not work in some places, but in South America stuff is to crazy.

[Hobbesistan]

Also, heres a recent article for you, Mach.


http://www.insightcrime.org/news-briefs ... omptroller
Now yes, this is relevent to drugs not nukes, but my point is - as you would say, realism.

Comparing drugs with nuclear weapons...yeah, sure...

Can you even provide any reasonable proof Argentina actually scans for radiation on incoming cargo?

Yes - http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/154067.pdf

I. SCOPE OF COOPERATION
1.
The Government of the United States of America, through the National Nuclear
Security Administration of the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE), may provide
technical assistance at no cost to the Government of the Argentine Republic
(Argentine Government), through its Implementing Agency, Administraci6n
Federal de Ingresos Publicos - Direcci6n General de Aduanas (hereinafter
AFIP), in the form of equipment and materials, as well as training and services,
for use at the Ports of Buenos Aires and Dock Sud for the purpose of detecting
and interdicting illicit trafficking in special nuclear material and other
radioactive material

By that very document- a official state.gov document you provided, Theres no radiological scanners at the port we are stopping at in.


Anything else?

[Axonic]

But yea, stalin still had it on the basis of communism, but he made his own changes to it. Bolivia could be doing something like that only with socalism.

"Yes, when a general throws out an elected socialist government to establish himself as a dictator, there's a chance he might be a socalist too!"

No, Waz, that's not how it works.

HAHA, Actually That's exactly how it was with Stalin.

[The Grand Republic of Hannover]

"Yes, when a general throws out an elected socialist government to establish himself as a dictator, there's a chance he might be a socalist too!"

No, Waz, that's not how it works.

Um-..are you aware that Bolivia has so many coups people just don't even care anymore? Bolivia is really unstable, and Bolivia has had many dictators through these coups. May not work in some places, but in South America stuff is to crazy.

Well, not so true anymore. Those coups took place in the 1960's, 70's, and 80's. Not anymore...

[Waztaskio]

"Yes, when a general throws out an elected socialist government to establish himself as a dictator, there's a chance he might be a socalist too!"

No, Waz, that's not how it works.

HAHA, Actually That's exactly how it was with Stalin.

I don't see any further point on argueing this. It seems we have already came to the decision of it being possible.

[Waztaskio]

Um-..are you aware that Bolivia has so many coups people just don't even care anymore? Bolivia is really unstable, and Bolivia has had many dictators through these coups. May not work in some places, but in South America stuff is to crazy.

Well, not so true anymore. Those coups took place in the 1960's, 70's, and 80's. Not anymore...

True, but i'm refering to the South American region as a whole as being unstable. So of course, it is possible.

[Axonic]

Yes, Tis a Sad truth that the OP can do whatever the fuck he wants with no debate.

[Hobbesistan]

Um-..are you aware that Bolivia has so many coups people just don't even care anymore? Bolivia is really unstable, and Bolivia has had many dictators through these coups. May not work in some places, but in South America stuff is to crazy.

Well, not so true anymore. Those coups took place in the 1960's, 70's, and 80's. Not anymore...

Actually the last mutiny (nearly went coup attempt) was in 2012...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/23/world/ame ... ce-mutiny/

[Machtergreifung]

Comparing drugs with nuclear weapons...yeah, sure...



Yes - http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/154067.pdf

I. SCOPE OF COOPERATION
1.
The Government of the United States of America, through the National Nuclear
Security Administration of the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE), may provide
technical assistance at no cost to the Government of the Argentine Republic
(Argentine Government), through its Implementing Agency, Administraci6n
Federal de Ingresos Publicos - Direcci6n General de Aduanas (hereinafter
AFIP), in the form of equipment and materials, as well as training and services,
for use at the Ports of Buenos Aires and Dock Sud for the purpose of detecting
and interdicting illicit trafficking in special nuclear material and other
radioactive material

By that very document- a official state.gov document you provided, Theres no radiological scanners at the port we are stopping at in.


Anything else?

The dock that you are stopping in is used for exclusively for grain exports and imports. Not exactly a suitable destination for a privately chartered vessel not carrying grains.

Trucks and titanium boxes might look out of place and raise some questions, don't you think?

[Hobbesistan]

Yes, Tis a Sad truth that the OP can do whatever the fuck he wants with no debate.

We actually were discussing this in TG's for a while, he threatened to take it to OOC, and I told him to do it - I for one would prefer we discuss things here than behind closed doors.

The dock that you are stopping in is used for exclusively for grain exports and imports. Not exactly a suitable destination for a privately chartered vessel not carrying grains.

Trucks and titanium boxes might look out of place and raise some questions, don't you think?

Sure, thus why we show up at night and scoot as fast as possible?

I'm not saying its movie-perfect.

[Waztaskio]

Yes, Tis a Sad truth that the OP can do whatever the fuck he wants with no debate.

Well, according to what we have heard. Does anyone else have any more points to stand on in the argument? If so, I will hear them.

[Machtergreifung]

Well, not so true anymore. Those coups took place in the 1960's, 70's, and 80's. Not anymore...

Actually the last mutiny (nearly went coup attempt) was in 2012...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/23/world/ame ... ce-mutiny/

That's a protest, not a coup, there is a difference.

Yes, Tis a Sad truth that the OP can do whatever the fuck he wants with no debate.

Well, according to what we have heard. Does anyone else have any more points to stand on in the argument? If so, I will hear them.

Sorry, I seem to have missed the part where we settled any of the issued I raised?

[Waztaskio]

Actually the last mutiny (nearly went coup attempt) was in 2012...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/23/world/ame ... ce-mutiny/

That's a protest, not a coup, there is a difference.

Well, according to what we have heard. Does anyone else have any more points to stand on in the argument? If so, I will hear them.

Sorry, I seem to have missed the part where we settled any of the issued I raised?

Well please, add whatever you still think is a problem.

[Zeinbrad]

Yes, Tis a Sad truth that the OP can do whatever the fuck he wants with no debate.

We actually were discussing this in TG's for a while, he threatened to take it to OOC, and I told him to do it - I for one would prefer we discuss things here than behind closed doors.

The dock that you are stopping in is used for exclusively for grain exports and imports. Not exactly a suitable destination for a privately chartered vessel not carrying grains.

Trucks and titanium boxes might look out of place and raise some questions, don't you think?

Sure, thus why we show up at night and scoot as fast as possible?

I'm not saying its movie-perfect.

It would be if Thrasher planned it.

[Hobbesistan]

Actually the last mutiny (nearly went coup attempt) was in 2012...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/23/world/ame ... ce-mutiny/

That's a protest, not a coup, there is a difference.

Well, according to what we have heard. Does anyone else have any more points to stand on in the argument? If so, I will hear them.

Sorry, I seem to have missed the part where we settled any of the issued I raised?

Do you want a in-depth report on your whole issues and the parts defeated by facts/realism? Sure!

North korea woulden't send anything to Bolivia - North Korea already is supplieing many partisan groups, regardless of political orientation. The socialist being replaced by socialist is entirely possible, as with Stalin/Lenin.

Woulden't get through argentine customs - Do I need to link the facts again? Or would you prefer wikipedia?

'Teleporting' - It's taking at least a month, in real time.


Did I miss anything?

[Waztaskio]

Also to my above, you stated the dock is used for grain and such and the titanium would look outta place. There are crates stacked up as high as the back of the truck can carry. And there are twenty trucks and most crates are filled with food and medical supplies. I doubt when the open a few crates, if they even try to...that they won't search every crate there. And ontop of this, I highly doubt anyone would search every crate without a probable cause, as we could Sue the Argentine government over this.

EDIT: And ontop of that, THEY DON'T SEARCH. They screen, so it won't make any sense to do so as they have no equipment to screen for radiation.

[Machtergreifung]

Yes, Tis a Sad truth that the OP can do whatever the fuck he wants with no debate.

We actually were discussing this in TG's for a while, he threatened to take it to OOC, and I told him to do it - I for one would prefer we discuss things here than behind closed doors.

The dock that you are stopping in is used for exclusively for grain exports and imports. Not exactly a suitable destination for a privately chartered vessel not carrying grains.

Trucks and titanium boxes might look out of place and raise some questions, don't you think?

Sure, thus why we show up at night and scoot as fast as possible?

I'm not saying its movie-perfect.

The entire plan is a B-grade Hollywood movie.

If it's not perfect, your shipment gets intercepted.

Your plan is far from perfect, so there will be some suprised Argentine dock officals that question why there's a bunch of North Koreans unloading black spray painted trucks and titainium boxes in the middle of the night in a grain import/export dock and end up discovering a nuclear weapon.

I hope I'm highlighting just how absurd the whole plan was to start with.

[Machtergreifung]

Also to my above, you stated the dock is used for grain and such and the titanium would look outta place. There are crates stacked up as high as the back of the truck can carry. And there are twenty trucks and most crates are filled with food and medical supplies. I doubt when the open a few crates, if they even try to...that they won't search every crate there. And ontop of this, I highly doubt anyone would search every crate without a probable cause, as we could Sue the Argentine government over this.

Black spray-painted trucks carrying "food and medical supplies" with owners that will sue if you search them...sounds utterly convincing.

Never agree to smuggle anything, you'll be useless at it.

[Maharo]

Nation Name:Kingdom of Spain
Head of State:King Juan Carlos I
Head of Government: Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy

Government Form:Constitutional Monarchy
Ideology: Conservatism,Christian democracy,Economic liberalism,Liberal conservatism,Unionism
Foreign Policy:

Spain has maintained its special identification with its fellow Spanish-speaking countries. Its policy emphasizes the concept of an Ibero-American community, essentially the renewal of the historically liberal concept of "Hispano-Americanismo" (or Hispanic as it is often referred to in English), which has sought to link the Iberian peninsula to the Spanish-speaking countries in Central and South America through language, commerce, history and culture. Spain has been an effective example of transition from dictatorship to democracy, as shown in the many trips that Spain's King and Prime Ministers have made to the region. Spain maintains economic and technical cooperation programs and cultural exchanges with Latin America, both bilaterally and within the EU.
Meanwhile, Spain has gradually begun to broaden its contacts with Sub-Saharan Africa. It has a particular interest in its former colony of Equatorial Guinea, where it maintains a large aid program. More recently Madrid has sought closer relation with Senegal, Mauritania, Mali and others to find solutions for the issue of illegal immigration to the Canary Islands.
Spain is also known as a broker in the Middle East. In its relations with the Arab world, Spain frequently supports Arab positions on Middle East issues. The Arab countries are a priority interest for Spain because of oil and gas imports and because several Arab nations have substantial investments in Spain.
Spain has been successful in managing its relations with its two European neighbours, France and Portugal. The accession of Spain and Portugal to the EU has helped ease some of their periodic trade frictions by putting these into an EU context. Franco-Spanish bilateral cooperation is enhanced by joint action against Basque ETA terrorism. Ties with the United Kingdom are generally good, although the question of Gibraltar remains a sensitive issue.
Today, Spain is trying to expand its still narrow relations with east Asian nations. The People's Republic of China and Japan are the main points of interest for Spain in the region. Thailand and Indonesia are Spain's main allies in the ASEAN region, having a considerable number of agreements and a very good relationship. In the recent years Spain has also been boosting its contacts, relations and investment in other Asian countries, most notably Vietnam, South Korea and Malaysia. Relations with the Philippines are, despite of the colonial past, considerably weaker than the ones Spain has with other countries in the area, dealing mostly with cultural aspects and humanitarian assistance programs.
Whilst the Disputed status of Gibraltar with the United Kingdom is perhaps the best known territorial dispute of Spain. Spain has a territorial dispute with Morocco concerning the five places of sovereignty (plazas de soberanía) on and off the coast of Morocco - the coastal enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla, which Morocco contests, as well as the islands of Peñon de Alhucemas, Peñon de Vélez de la Gomera, and Islas Chafarinas. Portugal continues to claim Olivenza/Olivença, asserting that under the Vienna Treaty of 1815, Spain recognized the Portuguese claims as "legitimate". The historic disputes with Portugal over the Savage Islands in the Atlantic Ocean were resolved in recent times.
The strategic position of the Strait of Gibraltar has left a legacy of a number of sovereignty disputes. Spain maintains sovereignty over Ceuta, Melilla, Penon de Velez de la Gomera, Alhucemas and the Chafarinas Islands (captured following the Christian reconquest of Spain) based upon historical grounds, security reasons and on the basis of the UN principle of territorial integrity. Spain also maintains that the majority of residents are Spanish. Morocco claims these territories on the basis of the UN principles of decolonisation, territorial integrity and that Spanish arguments for the recovery of Gibraltar substantiate Morocco’s claim.[1]
Olivenza (Spanish) or Olivença (Portuguese) is a town and seat of a municipality, on a disputed section of the border between Portugal and Spain, which is claimed de jure by both countries and administered de facto as part of the Spanish autonomous community of Extremadura. The population is 80% ethnic Portuguese and 30% of Portuguese language. Olivenza/Olivença was under continuous Portuguese sovereignty since 1297 until it was occupied by the Spanish in 1801 and formally ceded by Portugal later that year by the Treaty of Badajoz. Spain claims the de jure sovereignty over Olivenza/Olivença on the grounds that the Treaty of Badajoz still stands and has never been revoked. Thus, the border between the two countries in the region of Olivenza/Olivença should be as demarcated by that treaty. Portugal claims the de jure sovereignty over Olivenza/Olivença on the grounds that the Treaty of Badajoz was revoked by its own terms (the breach of any of its articles would lead to its cancellation) when Spain invaded Portugal in the Peninsular War of 1807.
Portugal further bases its case on Article 105 of the Treaty of Vienna of 1815, which Spain signed in 1817, that states that the winning countries are to "endeavour with the mightiest conciliatory effort to return Olivenza/Olivença to Portuguese authority". Thus, the border between the two countries in the region of Olivenza/Olivença should be as demarcated by the Treaty of Alcanizes of 1297. Spain interprets Article 105 as not being mandatory on demanding Spain to return Olivenza/Olivença to Portugal, thus not revoking the Treaty of Badajoz. Portugal has never made a formal claim to the territory after the Treaty of Vienna, but has equally never directly acknowledged the Spanish sovereignty over Olivenza/Olivença.
Spanish public opinion is not generally aware of the Portuguese claim on Olivenza/Olivença (in contrast to the Spanish claim on Gibraltar or the Moroccan claims on Ceuta, Melilla and the Plazas de soberanía). On the other hand, awareness in Portugal has been increasing under the efforts of pressure groups to have the question raised and debated in public.

Civil Freedoms /10:8
Political Freedoms /10:8
Economic Freedoms /10: 9

Military Size:47,191,619
Military Description: (ie, quality of equipment, doctrine, etc.)Updated,operable.

Description of Your Nation's Economy:Overall Good, Unemployment rate dropped down to 10%
Description of Your Nation's Government: Constitutional Monarchy
Small History of your nation from 2013 to April of 2014: The PP (people's party) has dominated again the deputies with 185 deputies & 110 senators
RP Sample:1495 age of glory, 1938:prelude to war & many more

[Waztaskio]

Also to my above, you stated the dock is used for grain and such and the titanium would look outta place. There are crates stacked up as high as the back of the truck can carry. And there are twenty trucks and most crates are filled with food and medical supplies. I doubt when the open a few crates, if they even try to...that they won't search every crate there. And ontop of this, I highly doubt anyone would search every crate without a probable cause, as we could Sue the Argentine government over this.

EDIT: And ontop of that, THEY DON'T SEARCH. They screen, so it won't make any sense to do so as they have no equipment to screen for radiation.

[Hobbesistan]

We actually were discussing this in TG's for a while, he threatened to take it to OOC, and I told him to do it - I for one would prefer we discuss things here than behind closed doors.


Sure, thus why we show up at night and scoot as fast as possible?

I'm not saying its movie-perfect.

The entire plan is a B-grade Hollywood movie.

If it's not perfect, your shipment gets intercepted.

Your plan is far from perfect, so there will be some suprised Argentine dock officals that question why there's a bunch of North Koreans unloading black spray painted trucks and titainium boxes in the middle of the night in a grain import/export dock and end up discovering a nuclear weapon.

I hope I'm highlighting just how absurd the whole plan was to start with.

You obviously haven't even read the entire plan then - Most of the boxes are already in the trucks, for one, for two, very little of the people driving the trucks are of north korean origin - this is purposeful because of that exact reason.

If it gets intercepted, it gets intercepted. I am not saying we have a magical battleship turrent floating on it and its made of depleted uranium. The whole purpose is to avoid it being bullshittingly intercepted, which is why we had intended to keep the cargo discreet.


I honestly think you are the one refusing to look at it objectively, If it gets caught it gets caught, the arguement here is that its not possible due to godmod, which its not godmod. Ambitious yes, catchable yes, godmod, no.

[Columbion]

"but just don't go judging things without knowing all the facts." everybody is doing that here

But yea, stalin still had it on the basis of communism, but he made his own changes to it. Bolivia could be doing something like that only with socalism.

Stalin didn't change anything in Marxism-Leninism. He kept to the what Marx, Engels, and Lenin said.

[Hobbesistan]

But yea, stalin still had it on the basis of communism, but he made his own changes to it. Bolivia could be doing something like that only with socalism.

Stalin didn't change anything in Marxism-Leninism. He kept to the what Marx, Engels, and Lenin said.

The purges of the 30's tell me differently.

[Machtergreifung]

That's a protest, not a coup, there is a difference.



Sorry, I seem to have missed the part where we settled any of the issued I raised?

Do you want a in-depth report on your whole issues and the parts defeated by facts/realism? Sure!

North korea woulden't send anything to Bolivia - North Korea already is supplieing many partisan groups, regardless of political orientation. The socialist being replaced by socialist is entirely possible, as with Stalin/Lenin.

As I've noted it's a pretty drastic jump from equipment and instructors to nuclear weapons, that isn't merited by the circumstances or the relationship between Bolivia/Bolivian Stalin/Lenin.

Woulden't get through argentine customs - Do I need to link the facts again? Or would you prefer wikipedia?

Well, it either goes through the normal channels at Buenos Aires or Dock Sud and is deteted, or unloads at a grain import-export dock and is detected. They're both pretty entreched facts, care to dispute them?

'Teleporting' - It's taking at least a month, in real time.

No issue with that, resolved as far as I see.

Speaking as someone who formerly lived in Argentina, I can't imagine it'd be too hard to introduce any questioning harbour officials to the smuggler's greatest friend, Benjamin Franklin.

This as well- Argentina is pretty well known for bribable officials.

We're talking truckloads here.

[Waztaskio]

But yea, stalin still had it on the basis of communism, but he made his own changes to it. Bolivia could be doing something like that only with socalism.

Stalin didn't change anything in Marxism-Leninism. He kept to the what Marx, Engels, and Lenin said.

Really? Then why was it called Stalinism? And the period after his death was De-Stalinization? And when he rose to Power Leningrad was renamed to Stalingrad? Lenin was more democratic, Stalin was more totalitarian which is a major difference in the two.