2014 - Real World RP (OOC/SIGNUPS/OLD THREAD)

[Rygondria]

Nation Name: Italian Republic
Head Of State Giorgio Napolitano
Head Of State: Enrico Letta
Government Form: Unitary Parliamentary republic
Ideology: Republic
Foreign Policy: It is a supporter of united nations and is a member of the European Union.
Civil Freedoms/10:7
Political freedoms/10: 8
Economic Freedoms/10: 8

Military size: 183,000 active personnel 41,867 Reserve personnel 61,286 in the guardia di Finanza
Military Description: Italy has the tenth largest military budget in the world and is engaged in peacekeeping around the world. The service rifle is currently the Beretta ARX-160 and the service pistol is the Beretta 92FS

Description of Your Nation's Economy: Italy is the ninth largest economy in the world and the fith largest in europe. It is rich in the northerrn region but poor in the southern regions.

Description of Your Nation's Government: Italy has a parliamentary republic that is divided into two houses The Chamber of deputies and the Senate Of the Republic and is perfectly bicameral and the president is selected by the parliament and his term is one seven year mandate the prime minister is selected by the president but the parliamet has to voye to let him in by a vote of confidence

Small History of your Nation from 2013 from to April of 2014: Italy began trying recover from its economic crisis in the eurozone. The presidents term is up and the elections begin soon and parlament is divided and military build up is beginning.
Rp sample. 2050 humanity at a crossroads.

Accepted

Is there anything i need to know about in the ic?

[Ptolemais]

We should really have a time system. It's confusing because in the IC thread we don't use dates that often, and the UN thread is sketchy (one resolution is dated for January 2014??).

Can we just say each day represents 1 or 2 weeks of time?

[Hobbesistan]

Mach is about to drop in here saying we are godmodding taking a solid month (yes, actual month) to get a nuke from North Korea to Bolivia, Out of partial laziness and partially to give context on the situation, I'll link one of my TG's to him first:

It's not through ISO containers- it is being privately transported, which still happens today, despite your beliefs.

Moreso, 'teleporting' - did you not see Waz saying it would take two weeks, at least?

As well, Waz has initiative to do it - it's a setup so he can plan something bigger while I cause terror on the other side of the world.

One of the greatest threats facing world peace today, at least, in the opinions of multiple government is nuclear terrorism- Terrorists acquiring nuclear weapons, the amount of 'loose nukes' - the generic term for nuclear weapons unaccounted for, includes both former Soviet nukes lost in time, and rouge nuclear capable states such as Iran, and yes, North Korea.

If in the eyes of dozens, if not hundreds, of scientists and government officials, a rag-tag terorrist organization can acquire a nuclear weapon through, example, north korea, saying that a far more organized army of a general with far more capabilities can't is plain ignorant.

Just because nuclear weapons have not worked in the past, you are simply being ignorant and refusing to try anything by making the assumption that they won't work here, Now if we godmodded and poofed 25 nukes into Bolivia in one post I would entirely see your arguement, but this is taking huge amounts of time and we are putting massive amounts of detail into how we do it, all for 1 reletively small nuclear warhead.

I will quote CGP grey on this - Your opinions, regardless of personal experiance, should be in a box - ready to be changed out for better ones, if you count your opinions as 'you', then they aren't really opinions,are they?

[Siaos]

We should really have a time system. It's confusing because in the IC thread we don't use dates that often, and the UN thread is sketchy (one resolution is dated for January 2014??).

Can we just say each day represents 1 or 2 weeks of time?

This is a good Idea, we really should have 1 day = 2 weeks.

[Machtergreifung]

It has come to my attention that the OP and one of the co-ops are attempting to transfer a nuke between the two.

The situation as is follows.

North Korea (Waz) wants to provide Bolivia (Hobb) with a nuclear weapon. To do this they are transporting it via ship through Argentina.

My problems with this are as follows:

- No explaination as to why North Korea would want to provide a Bolivian general with a nuclear weapon.
- No explaination as to why a Bolivian general would have links strong enough to get North Korea to give him a nuke.
- The nuclear weapon will somehow transit through Argentina without any questions being raised.

Overall, there's no real IC justification for it.

I'm considering it a godmod, and there's some dispute between us, what does the OOC think? Also, no metagaming based on this knowledge is allowed.

[The New Lowlands]

I don't think it's a godmod, necessarily, but I do think the transit stage through Argentina should be more detailed. In addition, I also don't understand why the DPRK would give the Bolivians a nuke.

[Siaos]

I don't think it's a godmod, necessarily, but I do think the transit stage through Argentina should be more detailed. In addition, I also don't understand why the DPRK would give the Bolivians a nuke.

^I agree

[Hobbesistan]

I don't think it's a godmod, necessarily, but I do think the transit stage through Argentina should be more detailed. In addition, I also don't understand why the DPRK would give the Bolivians a nuke.

It's a distraction(at least, from the DPRK's standpoint) - overall, America will be stuck on the other side of the world as the North makes a move.


We have, and will be, keeping this highly detailed, and itle be at least 2 weeks before it gets close to Argentina, so we have to wait a little while for that.

[The New Lowlands]

I don't think it's a godmod, necessarily, but I do think the transit stage through Argentina should be more detailed. In addition, I also don't understand why the DPRK would give the Bolivians a nuke.

It's a distraction(at least, from the DPRK's standpoint) - overall, America will be stuck on the other side of the world as the North makes a move.


We have, and will be, keeping this highly detailed, and itle be at least 2 weeks before it gets close to Argentina, so we have to wait a little while for that.

'A distraction?'
With modern command and control methods, and the permanent US presence in Korea, there isn't really such a thing as a strategic distraction.

[Bolovia]

It has come to my attention that the OP and one of the co-ops are attempting to transfer a nuke between the two.

The situation as is follows.

North Korea (Waz) wants to provide Bolivia (Hobb) with a nuclear weapon. To do this they are transporting it via ship through Argentina.

My problems with this are as follows:

- No explaination as to why North Korea would want to provide a Bolivian general with a nuclear weapon.
- No explaination as to why a Bolivian general would have links strong enough to get North Korea to give him a nuke.
- The nuclear weapon will somehow transit through Argentina without any questions being raised.

Overall, there's no real IC justification for it.

I'm considering it a godmod, and there's some dispute between us, what does the OOC think? Also, no metagaming based on this knowledge is allowed.

Realistically it's possible, North Korea could have contacts in Argentina, and it's UN colors flying legit.

[Hobbesistan]

It's a distraction(at least, from the DPRK's standpoint) - overall, America will be stuck on the other side of the world as the North makes a move.


We have, and will be, keeping this highly detailed, and itle be at least 2 weeks before it gets close to Argentina, so we have to wait a little while for that.

'A distraction?'
With modern command and control methods, and the permanent US presence in Korea, there isn't really such a thing as a strategic distraction.

The U.S is down to a 10 carrier fleet, as a example - They will have to shift attention and forces, meaning they can get away with stuff they otherwise won't be able to get away with.


We're not asking for every U.S troop to leave, but attention especiually is going to shift away, which is a godsent for the North.

[Machtergreifung]

I don't think it's a godmod, necessarily, but I do think the transit stage through Argentina should be more detailed. In addition, I also don't understand why the DPRK would give the Bolivians a nuke.

That's what gets me as well. Wanting a "distraction" is a bit vauge considering that nuclear weapons are involved. If you want a distraction, you kick up a crisis in your backyard, you don't ship a nuke halfway around the world to a general who's just taken over his native country.

It's just too filmsy for me to swallow.

It has come to my attention that the OP and one of the co-ops are attempting to transfer a nuke between the two.

The situation as is follows.

North Korea (Waz) wants to provide Bolivia (Hobb) with a nuclear weapon. To do this they are transporting it via ship through Argentina.

My problems with this are as follows:

- No explaination as to why North Korea would want to provide a Bolivian general with a nuclear weapon.
- No explaination as to why a Bolivian general would have links strong enough to get North Korea to give him a nuke.
- The nuclear weapon will somehow transit through Argentina without any questions being raised.

Overall, there's no real IC justification for it.

I'm considering it a godmod, and there's some dispute between us, what does the OOC think? Also, no metagaming based on this knowledge is allowed.

Realistically it's possible, North Korea could have contacts in Argentina, and it's UN colors flying legit.

Never heard of customs inspections? I somehow doubt that customs is going to be as careless about a unschedualed UN ship as a Chinese border guard will be.

That, however, is another matter. Considering that North Korea stole Chinese trains transiting the border (Source: http://rokdrop.com/2007/10/22/north-kor ... rail-cars/ ), I found it a stretch that China disregards a unschedualed convoy coming from North Korea.

[Hobbesistan]

We never said it was a U.N ship, did we?

You also dodged my previous point - A estimated 90+% of incoming sea cargo goes reletively uninspected in the U.S, so saying a 2nd rate nation like Argentina can scan every incoming piece of cargo is rediculous.

[Limborg]

The list is up for all who desire to buy new military arms and equipment!

[Machtergreifung]

'A distraction?'
With modern command and control methods, and the permanent US presence in Korea, there isn't really such a thing as a strategic distraction.

The U.S is down to a 10 carrier fleet, as a example - They will have to shift attention and forces, meaning they can get away with stuff they otherwise won't be able to get away with.


We're not asking for every U.S troop to leave, but attention especiually is going to shift away, which is a godsent for the North.

What, with the ROK Army and USFK dedicated to watch the North? Suuuuuuure.

Even if the US were distracted, there's still the formidable South Korean Army.

We never said it was a U.N ship, did we?

You also dodged my previous point - A estimated 90+% of incomcing sea cargo goes reletively uninspected in the U.S, so saying a 2nd rate nation like Argentina can scan every incoming piece of cargo is rediculous.

I checked your stats. They were utter trash.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_scanning

"At February 2009, approximately 80% of US incoming containers are scanned"

Even better, it's dedicated to finding nuclear materials. While Argentina might not have as high-tech methods, it does have significantly fewer major seaports than the US.

[Hobbesistan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_scanning

"At February 2009, approximately 80% of US incoming containers are scanned"

Obviously wikipedia is more reliable then the Center for Strategic & Internaional Studies, right?

Although radiation detection has increased since 2001, since 2007 the amount of cargo that is regularly scanned by X-ray or gamma-ray machines has remained at approximately only 4%. For FY 2012, this means that only 473,380 out of 11.5 million containers which arrived that year in the United States were subject to security scanning.

http://csis.org/blog/inherent-insecurity

[Bolovia]

The U.S is down to a 10 carrier fleet, as a example - They will have to shift attention and forces, meaning they can get away with stuff they otherwise won't be able to get away with.


We're not asking for every U.S troop to leave, but attention especiually is going to shift away, which is a godsent for the North.

What, with the ROK Army and USFK dedicated to watch the North? Suuuuuuure.

Even if the US were distracted, there's still the formidable South Korean Army.

We never said it was a U.N ship, did we?

You also dodged my previous point - A estimated 90+% of incomcing sea cargo goes reletively uninspected in the U.S, so saying a 2nd rate nation like Argentina can scan every incoming piece of cargo is rediculous.

I checked your stats. They were utter trash. Even better, it's dedicated to finding nuclear materials. While Argentina might not have as high-tech methods, it does have significantly fewer major seaports than the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_scanning

"At February 2009, approximately 80% of US incoming containers are scanned"

So what if this was a special case of that 20% that was left un scanned?

[Machtergreifung]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_scanning

"At February 2009, approximately 80% of US incoming containers are scanned"

Obviously wikipedia is more reliable then the Center for Strategic & Internaional Studies, right?

Although radiation detection has increased since 2001, since 2007 the amount of cargo that is regularly scanned by X-ray or gamma-ray machines has remained at approximately only 4%. For FY 2012, this means that only 473,380 out of 11.5 million containers which arrived that year in the United States were subject to security scanning.

http://csis.org/blog/inherent-insecurity

Granted.

However,

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-1 ... at-4-.html

"Port-security and customs officials say they’re taking all the precautions they can. Every container coming into the country must be scanned for radiation before it leaves the U.S. port."

[Machtergreifung]

What, with the ROK Army and USFK dedicated to watch the North? Suuuuuuure.

Even if the US were distracted, there's still the formidable South Korean Army.



I checked your stats. They were utter trash. Even better, it's dedicated to finding nuclear materials. While Argentina might not have as high-tech methods, it does have significantly fewer major seaports than the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_scanning

"At February 2009, approximately 80% of US incoming containers are scanned"

So what if this was a special case of that 20% that was left un scanned?

By that point we're already at the end of an absurdly long chain of "What If's".

[Columbion]

Plus, why would North Korea want to supply someone that just deposed a socialist president? That makes absolutely no sense. Waz really needs to rethink that.

[Hobbesistan]

Obviously wikipedia is more reliable then the Center for Strategic & Internaional Studies, right?

http://csis.org/blog/inherent-insecurity

Granted.

However,

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-1 ... at-4-.html

"Port-security and customs officials say they’re taking all the precautions they can. Every container coming into the country must be scanned for radiation before it leaves the U.S. port."

Right in that very article:

Screening 100 percent of incoming containers would be nearly impossible to implement now, cause huge delays and be less cost-effective than focusing only on suspicious cargo, customs officials say, even as the law’s supporters insist the mandate is the only way to ensure the safety of the shipping system.

Also,
The agency does “not see 100 percent as a feasible or a common-sense strategy,” she said.

My point is, if the biggest spender on defense & homeland security in the WORLD can't radiation scan all incoming cargo, I doubt argentina has any form of organized system to scan incoming cargo for radiation, or even x-rays.

[Waztaskio]

Plus, why would North Korea want to supply someone that just deposed a socialist president? That makes absolutely no sense. Waz really needs to rethink that.

Historically, North Korea has assisted a vast number of revolutionary, insurgent and terrorist groups in more than 62 countries. A cumulative total of more than 5,000 foreign personnel have been trained in North Korea, and over 7,000 military advisers, primarily from the Reconnaissance Bureau, have been dispatched to some forty-seven countries. Some of the organisations which received North Korean aid include the Polisario Front, Janatha Vimukthi Peramuna, the Communist Party of Thailand, the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution. The Zimbabwean Fifth Brigade received its initial training from KPA instructors. North Korean troops allegedly saw combat during the Libyan-Egyptian War and the Angolan Civil War. Up to 200 KPAF pilots took part in the Vietnam War, scoring several kills against US aircraft Two KPA anti-aircraft artillery regiments were sent to North Vietnam as well.

North Korean instructors trained Hezbollah fighters in guerilla warfare tactics around 2004, prior to the Second Lebanon War.During the Syrian Civil War, Arabic-speaking KPA officers have assisted the Syrian Arab Army in military operations planning and have supervised artillery bombardments in the Aleppo area.

[The New Lowlands]

Yeah, but giving the Boli's a nuke is going to mean China cutting off the oil.

[Columbion]

Plus, why would North Korea want to supply someone that just deposed a socialist president? That makes absolutely no sense. Waz really needs to rethink that.

Historically, North Korea has assisted a vast number of revolutionary, insurgent and terrorist groups in more than 62 countries. A cumulative total of more than 5,000 foreign personnel have been trained in North Korea, and over 7,000 military advisers, primarily from the Reconnaissance Bureau, have been dispatched to some forty-seven countries. Some of the organisations which received North Korean aid include the Polisario Front, Janatha Vimukthi Peramuna, the Communist Party of Thailand, the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution. The Zimbabwean Fifth Brigade received its initial training from KPA instructors. North Korean troops allegedly saw combat during the Libyan-Egyptian War and the Angolan Civil War. Up to 200 KPAF pilots took part in the Vietnam War, scoring several kills against US aircraft Two KPA anti-aircraft artillery regiments were sent to North Vietnam as well.

North Korean instructors trained Hezbollah fighters in guerilla warfare tactics around 2004, prior to the Second Lebanon War.During the Syrian Civil War, Arabic-speaking KPA officers have assisted the Syrian Arab Army in military operations planning and have supervised artillery bombardments in the Aleppo area.

But an Anti-Socialist group? Nope, never. Rethink your decision.

[Bolovia]

And by that note, I think it's a bit difficult to scan 600 million cargo crates for radiation with only 4200 handheld radiation scanners with limited range and capacity