World Map RP, Players Welcome!

[Ragnarum]

Kannapian forces are mobilizing in Stockholm, rumor is that Kannap is planning another invasion force.

Would Kannap like a few extra ground attack aircraft? We have plenty of CSA23's at the moment to sell.

Meanwhile, Ragnarum now has the capability and general technological awareness to add RADAR to aircraft, they will be mounted in bombers and will later be added to other aircraft when the size allowances go down.

[The Ruivan Empire]

The imperial research department has put out several potential MBT designs that if selected will become the premier and staple of our newly created armored divisions. More on these developments ad the appear.

In other news the IRD has begun allocations of millions of ruivs towards our air power research. Seeking to build our own designs from ruivan manufactures.

You do realize, don't you, that it's been just four years since the beginning of the thread? You may have taken several steps to reduce your dependence on the Vjörn economy, but to transition from Uieurnthlaal's iron mine to an economic power capable of an advanced army and air force in just two years is absurd.

look im not going to argue with you it has been some time since the start of my five year plan which has helped my fast growing economy. i have built schools and other higher learning education centers. and all i said was that we are looking at designs, and we are allocating funds into a broader air force. i'm not building anything. i will not advance at a snails pace just because i am using china to base my nation off of in this thread. i have set this up and worked towards it. please stop harassing me over the fact that i am trying to make this country militarily and economically competent with the other nations in this thread while not under your boot because it is getting old.

[Uieurnthlaal]

You do realize, don't you, that it's been just four years since the beginning of the thread? You may have taken several steps to reduce your dependence on the Vjörn economy, but to transition from Uieurnthlaal's iron mine to an economic power capable of an advanced army and air force in just two years is absurd.

look im not going to argue with you it has been some time since the start of my five year plan which has helped my fast growing economy. i have built schools and other higher learning education centers. and all i said was that we are looking at designs, and we are allocating funds into a broader air force. i'm not building anything. i will not advance at a snails pace just because i am using china to base my nation off of in this thread. i have set this up and worked towards it. please stop harassing me over the fact that i am trying to make this country militarily and economically competent with the other nations in this thread while not under your boot because it is getting old.

I'm not harassing you. I'm just pointing out that your claims are vastly disproportionate to the reality of your country. To do all that, you have to have money. Money which is coming from taxes. From taxes Vjörn-owned businesses. Naturally, they're not going to be friendly to competing companies, so competing companies would never be commercially viable. Sorry about this, but you chose a country that can't do much in this time period. China's not called "the sick man of Asia" for no reason. It's going to take a major disruption in the existing economic order to really tip the balance in your favor.

[The Ruivan Empire]

look im not going to argue with you it has been some time since the start of my five year plan which has helped my fast growing economy. i have built schools and other higher learning education centers. and all i said was that we are looking at designs, and we are allocating funds into a broader air force. i'm not building anything. i will not advance at a snails pace just because i am using china to base my nation off of in this thread. i have set this up and worked towards it. please stop harassing me over the fact that i am trying to make this country militarily and economically competent with the other nations in this thread while not under your boot because it is getting old.

I'm not harassing you. I'm just pointing out that your claims are vastly disproportionate to the reality of your country. To do all that, you have to have money. Money which is coming from taxes. From taxes Vjörn-owned businesses. Naturally, they're not going to be friendly to competing companies, so competing companies would never be commercially viable. Sorry about this, but you chose a country that can't do much in this time period. China's not called "the sick man of Asia" for no reason. It's going to take a major disruption in the existing economic order to really tip the balance in your favor.

You have no owned companies in my country any more, they where seized by my nation i made that quit clear i do have a tax system. So do have capital for my investments.

[Uieurnthlaal]

I'm not harassing you. I'm just pointing out that your claims are vastly disproportionate to the reality of your country. To do all that, you have to have money. Money which is coming from taxes. From taxes Vjörn-owned businesses. Naturally, they're not going to be friendly to competing companies, so competing companies would never be commercially viable. Sorry about this, but you chose a country that can't do much in this time period. China's not called "the sick man of Asia" for no reason. It's going to take a major disruption in the existing economic order to really tip the balance in your favor.

You have no owned companies in my country any more, they where seized by my nation i made that quit clear i do have a tax system. So do have capital for my investments.

... With the takeover of all of Uieurnthlaals assets and business interests and the fact that our income from those businesses which are now going to the ruivan government has led to a small but steady growth in the ruivan economy...

Following from your quote, if Vjörn businesses actually complied with your seizing of Vjörn assets, then your economy would have tanked, and stayed that way. All the skilled labor comes from Uieurnthlaal itself, as Ruivan citizens are far too poor to pay for a public education system, or really any major public project, for that matter. Then, pushing them out, all the Vjörn skilled workers, into the hands of a government that, rendered hopelessly ineffective by decades of corruption from the grassroots level up to the ruler himself, is completely unable to work any of the industries. Then, you would have to hire the only people who know how to work those industries, and guess who they'll be? Vjörn contractors. Of course, we would have placed sanctions on your economy by then, and your entire economy would be reduced to farming once more, at least until enough foreign experts trickle in to slowly bring your economy back from the 5th century.

That is, of course, assuming that Vjörn businesses cooperate. In reality, the central Chinese government had little to no power over the entire country all through the 1930s. Your country has tried again and again to expel foreign businesses. In recent years, Chiang-Kai Shek tried to do so. But, it never works, since you have no serious police force or army capable of enforcing laws.

[The Ruivan Empire]

You have no owned companies in my country any more, they where seized by my nation i made that quit clear i do have a tax system. So do have capital for my investments.

... With the takeover of all of Uieurnthlaals assets and business interests and the fact that our income from those businesses which are now going to the ruivan government has led to a small but steady growth in the ruivan economy...

Following from your quote, if Vjörn businesses actually complied with your seizing of Vjörn assets, then your economy would have tanked, and stayed that way. All the skilled labor comes from Uieurnthlaal itself, as Ruivan citizens are far too poor to pay for a public education system, or really any major public project, for that matter. Then, pushing them out, all the Vjörn skilled workers, into the hands of a government that, rendered hopelessly ineffective by decades of corruption from the grassroots level up to the ruler himself, is completely unable to work any of the industries. Then, you would have to hire the only people who know how to work those industries, and guess who they'll be? Vjörn contractors. Of course, we would have placed sanctions on your economy by then, and your entire economy would be reduced to farming once more, at least until enough foreign experts trickle in to slowly bring your economy back from the 5th century.

That is, of course, assuming that Vjörn businesses cooperate. In reality, the central Chinese government had little to no power over the entire country all through the 1930s. Your country has tried again and again to expel foreign businesses. In recent years, Chiang-Kai Shek tried to do so. But, it never works, since you have no serious police force or army capable of enforcing laws.

this is the last time i say this. the takeover has already happened. TBG stepped in and helped our economy once i forced you out, so no economic collapse, i posted that i was instituted a tax system, so i have capital, i have a five year plan for my industrial and economic expansion. i am not the china end of story, you have no business in my country anymore, any and all complaints about my country will be ignored from this point forward.

[Uieurnthlaal]

Following from your quote, if Vjörn businesses actually complied with your seizing of Vjörn assets, then your economy would have tanked, and stayed that way. All the skilled labor comes from Uieurnthlaal itself, as Ruivan citizens are far too poor to pay for a public education system, or really any major public project, for that matter. Then, pushing them out, all the Vjörn skilled workers, into the hands of a government that, rendered hopelessly ineffective by decades of corruption from the grassroots level up to the ruler himself, is completely unable to work any of the industries. Then, you would have to hire the only people who know how to work those industries, and guess who they'll be? Vjörn contractors. Of course, we would have placed sanctions on your economy by then, and your entire economy would be reduced to farming once more, at least until enough foreign experts trickle in to slowly bring your economy back from the 5th century.

That is, of course, assuming that Vjörn businesses cooperate. In reality, the central Chinese government had little to no power over the entire country all through the 1930s. Your country has tried again and again to expel foreign businesses. In recent years, Chiang-Kai Shek tried to do so. But, it never works, since you have no serious police force or army capable of enforcing laws.

this is the last time i say this. the takeover has already happened. TBG stepped in and helped our economy once i forced you out, so no economic collapse, i posted that i was instituted a tax system, so i have capital, i have a five year plan for my industrial and economic expansion. i am not the china end of story, you have no business in my country anymore, any and all complaints about my country will be ignored from this point forward.

Three years. Three years, I tell you. TBG is in an economic depression, while Uieurnthlaal is still experiencing economic growth. No matter how lofty the goal, TBG simply doesn't have the resources to prop up a faltering country without significant action in the area. So, you're telling me that, in three years, and with all but Uieurnthlaal in an economic depression (Japan was one of the few countries not to be affected by the global depression in the 30s), you managed to shake off the shackles of foreign economic domination, simply by mandating that it be so, and then playing along as if, suddenly, decades of Vjörn businesses in the area decided to leave and relinquish their assets because an underfunded government propped up on naught but foreign aid said to do so?

[The Ruivan Empire]

this is the last time i say this. the takeover has already happened. TBG stepped in and helped our economy once i forced you out, so no economic collapse, i posted that i was instituted a tax system, so i have capital, i have a five year plan for my industrial and economic expansion. i am not the china end of story, you have no business in my country anymore, any and all complaints about my country will be ignored from this point forward.

Three years. Three years, I tell you. TBG is in an economic depression, while Uieurnthlaal is still experiencing economic growth. No matter how lofty the goal, TBG simply doesn't have the resources to prop up a faltering country without significant action in the area. So, you're telling me that, in three years, and with all but Uieurnthlaal in an economic depression (Japan was one of the few countries not to be affected by the global depression in the 30s), you managed to shake off the shackles of foreign economic domination, simply by mandating that it be so, and then playing along as if, suddenly, decades of Vjörn businesses in the area decided to leave and relinquish their assets because an underfunded government propped up on naught but foreign aid said to do so?

If you dont have anything to put in ic that concerns me dont talk to me about this any more. I have made myself clear on the matter.

[Ragnarum]

this is the last time i say this. the takeover has already happened. TBG stepped in and helped our economy once i forced you out, so no economic collapse, i posted that i was instituted a tax system, so i have capital, i have a five year plan for my industrial and economic expansion. i am not the china end of story, you have no business in my country anymore, any and all complaints about my country will be ignored from this point forward.

Three years. Three years, I tell you. TBG is in an economic depression, while Uieurnthlaal is still experiencing economic growth. No matter how lofty the goal, TBG simply doesn't have the resources to prop up a faltering country without significant action in the area. So, you're telling me that, in three years, and with all but Uieurnthlaal in an economic depression (Japan was one of the few countries not to be affected by the global depression in the 30s), you managed to shake off the shackles of foreign economic domination, simply by mandating that it be so, and then playing along as if, suddenly, decades of Vjörn businesses in the area decided to leave and relinquish their assets because an underfunded government propped up on naught but foreign aid said to do so?

Well I could help to, and probably more extensively if what you say is completely true. I'm sitting in Russia with an economic system that is rather invulnerable to this kind of thing, all I really need to worry about is building up industry and taking over other European businesses, and of course defending it, which will be no problem with the largest army and airforce in the world.

[The Dauphinity of Cognito]

You have no owned companies in my country any more, they where seized by my nation i made that quit clear i do have a tax system. So do have capital for my investments.

... With the takeover of all of Uieurnthlaals assets and business interests and the fact that our income from those businesses which are now going to the ruivan government has led to a small but steady growth in the ruivan economy...

Following from your quote, if Vjörn businesses actually complied with your seizing of Vjörn assets, then your economy would have tanked, and stayed that way. All the skilled labor comes from Uieurnthlaal itself, as Ruivan citizens are far too poor to pay for a public education system, or really any major public project, for that matter. Then, pushing them out, all the Vjörn skilled workers, into the hands of a government that, rendered hopelessly ineffective by decades of corruption from the grassroots level up to the ruler himself, is completely unable to work any of the industries. Then, you would have to hire the only people who know how to work those industries, and guess who they'll be? Vjörn contractors. Of course, we would have placed sanctions on your economy by then, and your entire economy would be reduced to farming once more, at least until enough foreign experts trickle in to slowly bring your economy back from the 5th century.

That is, of course, assuming that Vjörn businesses cooperate. In reality, the central Chinese government had little to no power over the entire country all through the 1930s. Your country has tried again and again to expel foreign businesses. In recent years, Chiang-Kai Shek tried to do so. But, it never works, since you have no serious police force or army capable of enforcing laws.

Ok, I may be an outsider, but I have read the posts for this argument, you don't have to agree with me but this is what I understand to be true:

Actually Ruivan talked earlier about how he had improved his education system, so he probably does have his own skilled labour, especially now as he can afford this education system by selling off all of the Uieurnthaal assets.

Also this is an RP, if China has found a way of bypassing the financial crash then so be it....

[The Dauphinity of Cognito]

Also Germany recovered very quickly after world war 1, going from starving citizens and unemployment to virtual prosperity (NOT the work of the nazis though)

[The British Gumpurt]

Also Germany recovered very quickly after world war 1, going from starving citizens and unemployment to virtual prosperity (NOT the work of the nazis though)

I believe you were kicked out of the rp, for what happened with Iceland?

[The British Gumpurt]

Three years. Three years, I tell you. TBG is in an economic depression, while Uieurnthlaal is still experiencing economic growth. No matter how lofty the goal, TBG simply doesn't have the resources to prop up a faltering country without significant action in the area. So, you're telling me that, in three years, and with all but Uieurnthlaal in an economic depression (Japan was one of the few countries not to be affected by the global depression in the 30s), you managed to shake off the shackles of foreign economic domination, simply by mandating that it be so, and then playing along as if, suddenly, decades of Vjörn businesses in the area decided to leave and relinquish their assets because an underfunded government propped up on naught but foreign aid said to do so?

If you dont have anything to put in ic that concerns me dont talk to me about this any more. I have made myself clear on the matter.

Unfortunately you will have to take his actions into account. But we would like to up your funding from $1bn to $2.5bn every year ( Equivalent to $225bn today. Also America's GDP was only $96bn in 1940. Still the biggest GDP in 1940.)

[The Dauphinity of Cognito]

Also Germany recovered very quickly after world war 1, going from starving citizens and unemployment to virtual prosperity (NOT the work of the nazis though)

I believe you were kicked out of the rp, for what happened with Iceland?

I didn't try to get back in I am not trying to represent a nation, I'm just giving an outsiders perspective.

[Uieurnthlaal]

If you dont have anything to put in ic that concerns me dont talk to me about this any more. I have made myself clear on the matter.

Unfortunately you will have to take his actions into account. But we would like to up your funding from $1bn to $2.5bn every year ( Equivalent to $225bn today. Also America's GDP was only $96bn in 1940. Still the biggest GDP in 1940.)

OOC US's federal revenue in 1940 was 7B a year. 25%on foreign aid is a lot.

[The Ruivan Empire]

Unfortunately you will have to take his actions into account. But we would like to up your funding from $1bn to $2.5bn every year ( Equivalent to $225bn today. Also America's GDP was only $96bn in 1940. Still the biggest GDP in 1940.)

OOC US's federal revenue in 1940 was 7B a year. 25%on foreign aid is a lot.

I thought their GDP was 100 billion in 1940

I have taken it into account and I removed it from my nation. If he does not like it too bad. I am not the one throwing up objection after objection here. And it is starting to effect the fun I'm having on this thread. So any new arguments he has about what we talked about I will be ignoring.

[Uieurnthlaal]

OOC US's federal revenue in 1940 was 7B a year. 25%on foreign aid is a lot.

I thought their GDP was 100 billion in 1940

I have taken it into account and I removed it from my nation. If he does not like it too bad. I am not the one throwing up objection after objection here. And it is starting to effect the fun I'm having on this thread. So any new arguments he has about what we talked about I will be ignoring.

GDP. Not revenue. Besides, the US already had a 3B deficit in 1940. Increasing that to 5.5B would be, politically speaking, very difficult, not least to spend entirely on funding a developing country on the other side of the world.

Also, you removed what? What is "it"?

[The Ruivan Empire]

I thought their GDP was 100 billion in 1940

I have taken it into account and I removed it from my nation. If he does not like it too bad. I am not the one throwing up objection after objection here. And it is starting to effect the fun I'm having on this thread. So any new arguments he has about what we talked about I will be ignoring.

GDP. Not revenue. Besides, the US already had a 3B deficit in 1940. Increasing that to 5.5B would be, politically speaking, very difficult, not least to spend entirely on funding a developing country on the other side of the world.

Also, you removed what? What is "it"?

Oh I never knew that huh.

I apologize I should have been specific. I meant your economic control. You say that they would not comply. And I agree however unlike China the empire has a police force and a military to enforce my decrees. Your businesses where forcibly taking over by the Empire. and your people were expelled from my in national territory. therefore strictly speaking you have no control because you have no people here who can handle the control of the businesses which my government has seized and liquidated

[Uieurnthlaal]

GDP. Not revenue. Besides, the US already had a 3B deficit in 1940. Increasing that to 5.5B would be, politically speaking, very difficult, not least to spend entirely on funding a developing country on the other side of the world.

Also, you removed what? What is "it"?

Oh I never knew that huh.

I apologize I should have been specific. I meant your economic control. You say that they would not comply. And I agree however unlike China the empire has a police force and a military to enforce my decrees. Your businesses where forcibly taking over by the Empire. and your people were expelled from my in national territory. therefore strictly speaking you have no control because you have no people here who can handle the control of the businesses which my government has seized and liquidated

I don't think I was clear enough. Suppose we created a society in which 70% of the citizens are employed by Walmart incorporated. They all depend on their wages from Walmart to survive, and therefore, Walmart is central pillar of that society. If the head of the society tries to liquidate Walmart, the police force is extremely unlikely to comply, as their friend, family, and more, all rely on Walmart. The people in this society have a split allegiance, as the existing government, for decades, has been completely absent, resulting in Walmart becoming the de facto leader of the community, and therefore, attempts to regulate it by the de jure leader are pointless.

Replace Walmart with Uieurnthlaal, and use Ruivan China as the example.

[The Ruivan Empire]

Oh I never knew that huh.

I apologize I should have been specific. I meant your economic control. You say that they would not comply. And I agree however unlike China the empire has a police force and a military to enforce my decrees. Your businesses where forcibly taking over by the Empire. and your people were expelled from my in national territory. therefore strictly speaking you have no control because you have no people here who can handle the control of the businesses which my government has seized and liquidated

I don't think I was clear enough. Suppose we created a society in which 70% of the citizens are employed by Walmart incorporated. They all depend on their wages from Walmart to survive, and therefore, Walmart is central pillar of that society. If the head of the society tries to liquidate Walmart, the police force is extremely unlikely to comply, as their friend, family, and more, all rely on Walmart. The people in this society have a split allegiance, as the existing government, for decades, has been completely absent, resulting in Walmart becoming the de facto leader of the community, and therefore, attempts to regulate it by the de jure leader are pointless.

Replace Walmart with Uieurnthlaal, and use Ruivan China as the example.

We have been over this. your businesses were liquidated by my government that is it end of story.

[Uieurnthlaal]

I don't think I was clear enough. Suppose we created a society in which 70% of the citizens are employed by Walmart incorporated. They all depend on their wages from Walmart to survive, and therefore, Walmart is central pillar of that society. If the head of the society tries to liquidate Walmart, the police force is extremely unlikely to comply, as their friend, family, and more, all rely on Walmart. The people in this society have a split allegiance, as the existing government, for decades, has been completely absent, resulting in Walmart becoming the de facto leader of the community, and therefore, attempts to regulate it by the de jure leader are pointless.

Replace Walmart with Uieurnthlaal, and use Ruivan China as the example.

We have been over this. your businesses were liquidated by my government that is it end of story.

They have been de jure liquidated. De facto, they never stopped.

[The Ruivan Empire]

I want to take care of this zombie thing first

[The Ruivan Empire]

We have been over this. your businesses were liquidated by my government that is it end of story.

They have been de jure liquidated. De facto, they never stopped.

Yes they did this is my nation and you dont even have your people here working them any more i will not post about this any further.

[Bezombia]

someone's butthurt

[Uieurnthlaal]

They have been de jure liquidated. De facto, they never stopped.

Yes they did this is my nation and you dont even have your people here working them any more i will not post about this any further.

Government attempts to eliminate foreign intervention; foreign interveners make no effort to comply; government pretends foreign interveners are no longer there...

That's called de jure, not de facto, liquidation.

The entire history of your nation means that it would be impossible to remove all foreign intervention from your nation in three years by ordering that it must be so. You can order the police force to seize Vjörn assets, but that only works of they cooperate. Which they won't, considering that their community's entire income comes from Vjörn businesses. And, even if they tried, just on foreign aid, there's little they could do actually take Vjörn property, when practically all the Ruivans work there, and owe economic allegiance not to the Ruivan Empire, which has been distant and ineffective for decades, but to the Vjörns, who actually had the sphere in influence in the Chinese region.

So, you can always pretend that you've successfully expelled foreign businesses, but you stand little chance of convincing others that you've succeeded as well.