Antiquity Rises Rampant DEAD.

[The Grey Wolf]

You didn't read my post at all. I said he had fishermen sail to Ireland to make sure it was safe. You know? So he and his men didn't get battered to death in a storm or something?

Talking about the Norman again

I'm sure, I'm just getting mixed up because both me and the French fry are colonizing Ireland. And I had fishermen sail to Ulster to act as scouts.

[Emilio Aguinaldo]

Dude everyone is trained the same. This is Drakonian education. And they don't get payed. They are forced to fight

Ah, fair enough. So at a young age they're trained, but do they undergo continual retraining and practice? If not, you'll see degradation of military skills over time. If so, that time spent training on a regular basis across the entire population will have a significant economic impact in terms of lost opportunity cost.

Forcing men to fight is a great way to have poor morale; I wasn't talking about the cost to pay then though, that's a very small part of the cost of deploying a military man. I'm talking about the taxes that go into buying weapons and armor, storing them, maintaining them, feeding the soldiers in the field, etc. Logistics cost money.

It worked well for the Mongols, I mean would you rather fight for them or be dragged by horses across the Continent? Or would you like to be quartered?

[G-Tech Corporation]

Ah, fair enough. So at a young age they're trained, but do they undergo continual retraining and practice? If not, you'll see degradation of military skills over time. If so, that time spent training on a regular basis across the entire population will have a significant economic impact in terms of lost opportunity cost.

Forcing men to fight is a great way to have poor morale; I wasn't talking about the cost to pay then though, that's a very small part of the cost of deploying a military man. I'm talking about the taxes that go into buying weapons and armor, storing them, maintaining them, feeding the soldiers in the field, etc. Logistics cost money.

It is a military culture. And their equipment is armor, a spear, a shield and a back-up sword. I just wish for elite skilled men more than anything else. Quality vs Quantity... but how can I do that when all male pops are supposed to be fighters

Well, that's better equipment than most warriors would have in this time period; armor is a fairly novel concept. Perhaps you should do as I do- train many [my Bandsmen, 1% of the pop], but have a few elites [my Battlelords, .2% of the population].

[G-Tech Corporation]

Ah, fair enough. So at a young age they're trained, but do they undergo continual retraining and practice? If not, you'll see degradation of military skills over time. If so, that time spent training on a regular basis across the entire population will have a significant economic impact in terms of lost opportunity cost.

Forcing men to fight is a great way to have poor morale; I wasn't talking about the cost to pay then though, that's a very small part of the cost of deploying a military man. I'm talking about the taxes that go into buying weapons and armor, storing them, maintaining them, feeding the soldiers in the field, etc. Logistics cost money.

It worked well for the Mongols, I mean would you rather fight for them or be dragged by horses across the Continent? Or would you like to be quartered?

Oh? I'm not aware of research showing forced warfare by Mongol tributaries, but I could be mistaken. At any rate, that's one example of forces combat being partially successful, a noted exception to any rule. Axiomatically men fight better when incentivized, and fear is psychologically a poorer incentive than reward or ideology.

[Emilio Aguinaldo]

It worked well for the Mongols, I mean would you rather fight for them or be dragged by horses across the Continent? Or would you like to be quartered?

Oh? I'm not aware of research showing forced warfare by Mongol tributaries, but I could be mistaken. At any rate, that's one example of forces combat being partially successful, a noted exception to any rule. Axiomatically men fight better when incentivized, and fear is psychologically a poorer incentive than reward or ideology.

The Romans were also incentivesed by fear. You know decimation? Yep, that's one of them.

[The Magnified Union of Aligned Communes]

Oh? I'm not aware of research showing forced warfare by Mongol tributaries, but I could be mistaken. At any rate, that's one example of forces combat being partially successful, a noted exception to any rule. Axiomatically men fight better when incentivized, and fear is psychologically a poorer incentive than reward or ideology.

The Romans were also incentivesed by fear. You know decimation? Yep, that's one of them.

Not quite. I doubt that disciplined legions across the space of several centuries were just held in place by fear. Decimation was only recorded as being in use during several crunch times.

In other news, looks like it's time for Wu Ding to take the stage.
And a bit later, this lady, who does seem like quite an intriguing figure considering how patriarchal the ancient world was.

[Great Kleomentia]

Im having less time with tests and all thus i cant read all the IC posts. So if one of you attacks me or sends me a message please TG me about it so i can reply.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Oh? I'm not aware of research showing forced warfare by Mongol tributaries, but I could be mistaken. At any rate, that's one example of forces combat being partially successful, a noted exception to any rule. Axiomatically men fight better when incentivized, and fear is psychologically a poorer incentive than reward or ideology.

The Romans were also incentivesed by fear. You know decimation? Yep, that's one of them.

And, I should note, incentivized by large wages and land plots as well as a great parting purse when they quit the service. Decimation was actually more lenient than most ancient practices in response to desertion and cowardice, which generally simply killed everyone guilty of the offense. The Romans were actually very lenient in terms of military punishment, a factor which likely aided in their successes. Every army is motivated by fear, even modern armies; desertion can be punished by hard labor or death, even in the modern day. An army motivated only by fear, though, is an ineffective army. Who maintains the fear if the entire military is motivated in such a manner?

Also, as AC noted, decimation was used very infrequently, about six times we have records of.

[Emilio Aguinaldo]

The Romans were also incentivesed by fear. You know decimation? Yep, that's one of them.

And, I should note, incentivized by large wages and land plots as well as a great parting purse when they quit the service. Decimation was actually more lenient than most ancient practices in response to desertion and cowardice, which generally simply killed everyone guilty of the offense. The Romans were actually very lenient in terms of military punishment, a factor which likely aided in their successes. Every army is motivated by fear, even modern armies; desertion can be punished by hard labor or death, even in the modern day. An army motivated only by fear, though, is an ineffective army. Who maintains the fear if the entire military is motivated in such a manner?

Also, as AC noted, decimation was used very infrequently, about six times we have records of.

Apparently the guy who drags you across the continent.

[G-Tech Corporation]

And, I should note, incentivized by large wages and land plots as well as a great parting purse when they quit the service. Decimation was actually more lenient than most ancient practices in response to desertion and cowardice, which generally simply killed everyone guilty of the offense. The Romans were actually very lenient in terms of military punishment, a factor which likely aided in their successes. Every army is motivated by fear, even modern armies; desertion can be punished by hard labor or death, even in the modern day. An army motivated only by fear, though, is an ineffective army. Who maintains the fear if the entire military is motivated in such a manner?

Also, as AC noted, decimation was used very infrequently, about six times we have records of.

Apparently the guy who drags you across the continent.

Who drags him across the continent then? Fear as a hierarchy only works as long as the originator, your ruler, is supported by a significant enough clique to impose his fear-policy on everyone else. Cases in point: the Khmer Rogue and Assyria. Both couldn't maintain long term terror-rule, and fell to revolts. I don't think Drako wants his empire to disintegrate as his soldiers revolt against their harsh rulers who don't even pay the men that enforce their rule.

[DrakoBlaria]

It is a military culture. And their equipment is armor, a spear, a shield and a back-up sword. I just wish for elite skilled men more than anything else. Quality vs Quantity... but how can I do that when all male pops are supposed to be fighters

Well, that's better equipment than most warriors would have in this time period; armor is a fairly novel concept. Perhaps you should do as I do- train many [my Bandsmen, 1% of the pop], but have a few elites [my Battlelords, .2% of the population].

Emm, no. Drakonians are born equal, doing what you suggest would bring much unrest

[G-Tech Corporation]

Well, that's better equipment than most warriors would have in this time period; armor is a fairly novel concept. Perhaps you should do as I do- train many [my Bandsmen, 1% of the pop], but have a few elites [my Battlelords, .2% of the population].

Emm, no. Drakonians are born equal, doing what you suggest would bring much unrest

Hmm. They're even equal in the percieved value of their professions? In that case you'll find it frankly impossible to train a large army of true elites; by virtue of elitism, it requires more resources to maintain and economic impact, as citizen-soldiers can contribute to the economy, whereas professionals cannot.

Think of it this way: your entire nation is reduced to ten people, five of which are women. Those women contribute to your economy one unit of gold each, for a total of five. A decent economy has eight units of net gold production, a good one nine, and a great one ten. Elite professional soldiers, ala Spartans, cost three gold each and contribute nothing to your economy. Professional soldiers like those of most kingdoms contribute nothing to the economy, but only cost two gold each. Citizen-soldiers are only decent warriors, but both contribute one gold to the economy due to their peacetime activities and only cost one each, so they're a net wash. Slaves contribute 1.5 gold but carry the chance of a revolt, and normal men contribute one.

Sparta would look like this:

5 Women : 5 Gold
4 Slaves: 6 Gold
1 Elite Professional Soldier: -3 Gold

Sum total: Seven gold, a less-than-decent economy, but good warriors. Risk of slave revolts high though.

Athens would look like this:

5 Women : 5 Gold
2 Slaves: 3 Gold
2 Normal Men: 2 Gold
1 Citizen Soldier: 0 Gold

Sum total: Ten gold, a great economy, and decent soldiers.

Drakonia, as you proposed it, would look like this:

5 Women : 5 Gold
3 Normal Men : 3 Gold
1 Professional Soldiers : -2 Gold
1 Elite Professional Soldiers : -3 gold

That's a net of only 3 Gold, a pretty shabby economy.

Most of the Ameralite polises, for comparison, would look like this:

5 Women : 5 Gold
3.9 Normal Men : 3.9 Gold
1 Slaves : 1.5 Gold
.08 Citizen Soldiers : 0 Gold
.02 Elite Professional Soldiers: -.06 Gold

That's a net of 10.34 Gold, a quite excellent economy. Armies will be small, in comparison to most, but very well-equipped and well led by the elites, who function as shock troops and commanders.

[The Nation of Hay]

The Aegyptian military consists of around 30,000-60,000 (approx. 1-2% of the population) professional soldiers. This would consist of about 20% infantry equipped with long bronze-tipped spears, 15% infantry equipped with bronze sickle-swords, 30% archers, and 40% chariots. Infantry would be wearing mostly leather or cloth tunics with metal scale coverings, archers wear leather or cloth tunics with no armoring and straw hats to shield their eyes from the sun (so they can see their target more easily), and charioteers rode three men to a chariot, one equipped with a bow, one with a short spear, and the other holding the reins.

And my economy, in terms of your system would look something like this, with each person approximately representing their demograpic:

5 Women(40%): 5
2.85 Normal Men (28.5%): 2.85
2 Slave (20%): 3
.15 Professional Soldier(1.5%): -.3

Economy = 9.55, a pretty powerful economy.

[G-Tech Corporation]

The Aegyptian military consists of around 30,000-60,000 (approx. 1-2% of the population) professional soldiers. This would consist of about 20% infantry equipped with long bronze-tipped spears, 15% infantry equipped with bronze sickle-swords, 30% archers, and 40% chariots. Infantry would be wearing mostly leather or cloth tunics with metal scale coverings, archers wear leather or cloth tunics with no armoring and straw hats to shield their eyes from the sun (so they can see their target more easily), and charioteers rode three men to a chariot, one equipped with a bow, one with a short spear, and the other holding the reins.

Chariots are bamf amirite?

[The Nation of Hay]

The Aegyptian military consists of around 30,000-60,000 (approx. 1-2% of the population) professional soldiers. This would consist of about 20% infantry equipped with long bronze-tipped spears, 15% infantry equipped with bronze sickle-swords, 30% archers, and 40% chariots. Infantry would be wearing mostly leather or cloth tunics with metal scale coverings, archers wear leather or cloth tunics with no armoring and straw hats to shield their eyes from the sun (so they can see their target more easily), and charioteers rode three men to a chariot, one equipped with a bow, one with a short spear, and the other holding the reins.

Chariots are bamf amirite?

You're damn right they are

Also, bountiful harvest, woohoo!

[G-Tech Corporation]

Chariots are bamf amirite?

You're damn right they are

Also, bountiful harvest, woohoo!

I can definently live with more people and political contributions/kind-taxes.

[The Nation of Hay]

Now to come up with something interesting to post in the IC about...

[G-Tech Corporation]

Now to come up with something interesting to post in the IC about...

Invading Sea Peoples

Or, since you're Aegyptian, monuments and religion. Or even granary establishment to home the surplus of these decades of plenty.

[The Nation of Hay]

Now to come up with something interesting to post in the IC about...

Invading Sea Peoples

Or, since you're Aegyptian, monuments and religion. Or even granary establishment to home the surplus of these decades of plenty.

Well, my current ruler is very religious, so monuments and religion will probably make up a pretty big part of what he's known for

[Emilio Aguinaldo]

Now to come up with something interesting to post in the IC about...

Invading Sea Peoples

Or, since you're Aegyptian, monuments and religion. Or even granary establishment to home the surplus of these decades of plenty.

Battles thread G-tech!

[G-Tech Corporation]

A few clarifications for the battle thread Emilio.

The horsemen fled north?

The Simerii infantry are shooting from their position in the north at my advancing infantry?

Any casualties from my chariot attack or infantry bowmen on either the horsemen or Simerii infantry?

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Hmmm... Fertile Crescent-based empire, here we goooooo!

While it would be interesting to say the least, I'm focusing on an Indian empire. Who wants the spices?

[The Grey Wolf]

Eventually, me and the French fry will bat horns. I'll probably win.

[Emilio Aguinaldo]

A few clarifications for the battle thread Emilio.

The horsemen fled north?

The Simerii infantry are shooting from their position in the north at my advancing infantry?

Any casualties from my chariot attack or infantry bowmen on either the horsemen or Simerii infantry?

Well shite. Back to the drawing board. This is what I get for trying to go here on mobile.

[G-Tech Corporation]

A few clarifications for the battle thread Emilio.

The horsemen fled north?

The Simerii infantry are shooting from their position in the north at my advancing infantry?

Any casualties from my chariot attack or infantry bowmen on either the horsemen or Simerii infantry?

Well shite. Back to the drawing board. This is what I get for trying to go here on mobile.

Oh no, it's a fine post, I just need to know OOcly what the devil is going on