Antiquity Rises Rampant DEAD.

[The Grey Wolf]

Manannan ordered a party of six men in three boats to sail into Ulster, and sail back to report their findings. He was afraid that the boats may fail.

Then what about him eh? He doesn't have papyrus, is a barbarian,like most of us, and crossing a channel. Why don't you say that his boats will sink as soon as they are set adrift?

Because south west Scotland and northern Ireland aren't that far away from each other?

[Sasutary Island]

Hmm, time to invade northern ireland !

[G-Tech Corporation]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hqxlv67z1uvef ... antMap.png

Wait did you take over that country in Iberia? ?

Eh? No?

Unless I miss my guess, Drako's army should be invading right alongside you.

Out of curiosity, where are you getting your tin and iron armor from?

I guess that's how we should RP it. Since there might be a time difference I'll allow Byzantium to RP my troops to in the battle.

So, guys, how many men should I have? Keep in mind that all men are trained to fight and all have to go to war if needed. Also I hired some mercs. And there is the constant warmongering...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hqxlv67z1uvef ... antMap.png

Wait did you take over that country in Iberia? ?

Eh? No?

Unless I miss my guess, Drako's army should be invading right alongside you.

Out of curiosity, where are you getting your tin and iron armor from?

I guess that's how we should RP it. Since there might be a time difference I'll allow Byzantium to RP my troops to in the battle.

So, guys, how many men should I have? Keep in mind that all men are trained to fight and all have to go to war if needed. Also I hired some mercs. And there is the constant warmongering...

Hmm, well, lets see. These people estimate 42.3% of Spartans were between 20 and 49, which seems like a sensible military deployment age range. His figure includes Inferiors though, so I'm not sure if you use slaves or not. That would necessarily reduce your population capable of warfare. Estimates for Greek population in Greece in the fourth century agree on about two point five to three point five million. Taking into account eight hundred eighty years of population growth at, say, half a percent annually, logarithmic compounding growth, Greece sum total should have between nine hundred thousand and one point one million inhabitants in 1280 BC. Given you occupy around a fourth-third of that land area, and probably are more urbanized than those who haven't posted much, lets call it a third of that population, so three hundred to four hundred thousand inhabitants.

Add in maybe a hundred and fifty thousand inhabitants from your colonies, so four hundred and fifty thousand to five hundred and fifty thousand total citizens. Half are women, so on the high side you're down to two hundred twenty five thousand. Half of those are eligible for military service, less than, so about a hundred and twenty thousand men total would be fit for military service.

So. 125,000. Then we account for slaves; if you're training every Drakonian make to fight ala Sparta, you'll need quite the large slave population to support your economy as your men train and go to war. The New World Encyclopedia estimates helots as being eighty to ninety five percent of Sparta's population, performing labor the constantly training Spartans could not, and so unfit for military service. Let's use the lower eighty figure; twenty four thousand Spartans would be your maximum deployment size with no navy, six thousand if we believe the ninety five percent.

So, I'd guesstimate fifteen thousand, if you want true Spartans. That figure could be bumped if you wanted less well-trained soldiers or less of an economy, and that's only sustainable with heavy slave labor. That figure seems to agree with most Greek deployments in the Classical Era, when Sparta would send ten thousand men abroad and leave ten at home.

[DrakoBlaria]

To be fair, I dunno if I have slaves. Unlike real Sparta where it was a city state that annexed neighbouring Greeks and made them slaves, in this timeline all of the Pelloponese is populated by Drakonians. I train all men to be able to fight from when they are 7 to when they are 23. Afterwards they choose their proffesions as they may BUT they are forced to fight if the state thinks it is necessairy. So... I guess 20.000 elite men + decent navy would be a good one.

This 20.000 men are the best fighter in the world... oh yeah

[The Grey Wolf]

To be fair, I dunno if I have slaves. Unlike real Sparta where it was a city state that annexed neighbouring Greeks and made them slaves, in this timeline all of the Pelloponese is populated by Drakonians. I train all men to be able to fight from when they are 7 to when they are 23. Afterwards they choose their proffesions as they may BUT they are forced to fight if the state thinks it is necessairy. So... I guess 20.000 elite men + decent navy would be a good one.

This 20.000 men are the best fighter in the world... oh yeah

Keep dreaming.

[Emilio Aguinaldo]

Hmm, time to invade northern ireland !

Looking at the shit people seem to have, you can now invade Britannia since it would be a hassle to me to call bullshit on everything.

[DrakoBlaria]

To be fair, I dunno if I have slaves. Unlike real Sparta where it was a city state that annexed neighbouring Greeks and made them slaves, in this timeline all of the Pelloponese is populated by Drakonians. I train all men to be able to fight from when they are 7 to when they are 23. Afterwards they choose their proffesions as they may BUT they are forced to fight if the state thinks it is necessairy. So... I guess 20.000 elite men + decent navy would be a good one.

This 20.000 men are the best fighter in the world... oh yeah

Keep dreaming.

Just telling the truth

[The Grey Wolf]

Keep dreaming.

Just telling the truth

Where were your damn Spartans when we Celts sacked Delphi?

[G-Tech Corporation]

To be fair, I dunno if I have slaves. Unlike real Sparta where it was a city state that annexed neighbouring Greeks and made them slaves, in this timeline all of the Pelloponese is populated by Drakonians. I train all men to be able to fight from when they are 7 to when they are 23. Afterwards they choose their proffesions as they may BUT they are forced to fight if the state thinks it is necessairy. So... I guess 20.000 elite men + decent navy would be a good one.

This 20.000 men are the best fighter in the world... oh yeah

Well, twenty thousand would assume two-thirds of your men were not regularly engaging in battle or training, and thus supporting your economy, since you need men to go into the navy as well. Especially since free men will draw on more resources than helots, and be less willing to work for the pure benefit of your military than slaves.

So, you can have twenty thousand men, a run-of-the-mill navy, and a so-so economy without everyone well-trained.

And they won't be the most elite; those would be my Battlelords, which are an even smaller percentage of my populace than yours

[Paketo]

Hmm, time to invade northern ireland !

Looking at the shit people seem to have, you can now invade Britannia since it would be a hassle to me to call bullshit on everything.

They shouldn't even have anything in Ireland due to there boats

[DrakoBlaria]

To be fair, I dunno if I have slaves. Unlike real Sparta where it was a city state that annexed neighbouring Greeks and made them slaves, in this timeline all of the Pelloponese is populated by Drakonians. I train all men to be able to fight from when they are 7 to when they are 23. Afterwards they choose their proffesions as they may BUT they are forced to fight if the state thinks it is necessairy. So... I guess 20.000 elite men + decent navy would be a good one.

This 20.000 men are the best fighter in the world... oh yeah

Well, twenty thousand would assume two-thirds of your men were not regularly engaging in battle or training, and thus supporting your economy, since you need men to go into the navy as well. Especially since free men will draw on more resources than helots, and be less willing to work for the pure benefit of your military than slaves.

So, you can have twenty thousand men, a run-of-the-mill navy, and a so-so economy without everyone well-trained.

And they won't be the most elite; those would be my Battlelords, which are an even smaller percentage of my populace than yours

Dude everyone is trained the same. This is Drakonian education. And they don't get payed. They are forced to fight

[The Grey Wolf]

Looking at the shit people seem to have, you can now invade Britannia since it would be a hassle to me to call bullshit on everything.

They shouldn't even have anything in Ireland due to there boats

Who me?

[Paketo]

They shouldn't even have anything in Ireland due to there boats

Who me?

The Norman guy, your close enough to cross most likely

[The Grey Wolf]

Who me?

The Norman guy, your close enough to cross most likely

Thought so, wasn't sure.
Anyway, I just don't see how he could colonize Ireland.

[DrakoBlaria]

The Norman guy, your close enough to cross most likely

Thought so, wasn't sure.
Anyway, I just don't see how he could colonize Ireland.

Me neither

[Emilio Aguinaldo]

The Norman guy, your close enough to cross most likely

Thought so, wasn't sure.
Anyway, I just don't see how he could colonize Ireland.

Destroy them, help the southern englishmen.

[The Grey Wolf]

Thought so, wasn't sure.
Anyway, I just don't see how he could colonize Ireland.

Me neither

Maybe England, sure, since he is close to it, having territory in France, but Ireland, I just doubt it.

[Paketo]

Thought so, wasn't sure.
Anyway, I just don't see how he could colonize Ireland.

Destroy them, help the southern englishmen.

He said he had fisherman be washed ashore in Ireland after a storm and somehow colonize that much territory and then have his people be able to travel to Ireland and find out about it.

[The Grey Wolf]

Thought so, wasn't sure.
Anyway, I just don't see how he could colonize Ireland.

Destroy them, help the southern englishmen.

Oh we will.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

I will post soon, methinks. And I'm going to stretch Reality a bit by starting some cities in India. Not a fledging Indian Empire, but some cities here and there.

[Emilio Aguinaldo]

Destroy them, help the southern englishmen.

He said he had fisherman be washed ashore in Ireland after a storm and somehow colonize that much territory and then have his people be able to travel to Ireland and find out about it.

Random event time?

[The Grey Wolf]

Destroy them, help the southern englishmen.

He said he had fisherman be washed ashore in Ireland after a storm and somehow colonize that much territory and then have his people be able to travel to Ireland and find out about it.

You didn't read my post at all. I said he had fishermen sail to Ireland to make sure it was safe. You know? So he and his men didn't get battered to death in a storm or something?

[G-Tech Corporation]

Well, twenty thousand would assume two-thirds of your men were not regularly engaging in battle or training, and thus supporting your economy, since you need men to go into the navy as well. Especially since free men will draw on more resources than helots, and be less willing to work for the pure benefit of your military than slaves.

So, you can have twenty thousand men, a run-of-the-mill navy, and a so-so economy without everyone well-trained.

And they won't be the most elite; those would be my Battlelords, which are an even smaller percentage of my populace than yours

Dude everyone is trained the same. This is Drakonian education. And they don't get payed. They are forced to fight

Ah, fair enough. So at a young age they're trained, but do they undergo continual retraining and practice? If not, you'll see degradation of military skills over time. If so, that time spent training on a regular basis across the entire population will have a significant economic impact in terms of lost opportunity cost.

Forcing men to fight is a great way to have poor morale; I wasn't talking about the cost to pay then though, that's a very small part of the cost of deploying a military man. I'm talking about the taxes that go into buying weapons and armor, storing them, maintaining them, feeding the soldiers in the field, etc. Logistics cost money.

[DrakoBlaria]

Dude everyone is trained the same. This is Drakonian education. And they don't get payed. They are forced to fight

Ah, fair enough. So at a young age they're trained, but do they undergo continual retraining and practice? If not, you'll see degradation of military skills over time. If so, that time spent training on a regular basis across the entire population will have a significant economic impact in terms of lost opportunity cost.

Forcing men to fight is a great way to have poor morale; I wasn't talking about the cost to pay then though, that's a very small part of the cost of deploying a military man. I'm talking about the taxes that go into buying weapons and armor, storing them, maintaining them, feeding the soldiers in the field, etc. Logistics cost money.

It is a military culture. And their equipment is armor, a spear, a shield and a back-up sword. I just wish for elite skilled men more than anything else. Quality vs Quantity... but how can I do that when all male pops are supposed to be fighters

[Paketo]

He said he had fisherman be washed ashore in Ireland after a storm and somehow colonize that much territory and then have his people be able to travel to Ireland and find out about it.

You didn't read my post at all. I said he had fishermen sail to Ireland to make sure it was safe. You know? So he and his men didn't get battered to death in a storm or something?

Talking about the Norman again