In Luce Intelligentiae, An Epoch Tale. (OOC/Interest/Open)

[The Empire of Pretantia]

You're, not your.

And I am... The Oni!

Big Ogres really need a lot of food. I look forward to the era of siege warfare.

Considering we'll be on the offense...

Also, I'd like to see you try to lock us in the castle. The Oni are gonna be siege maniacs, mark my words.

[Prusseusss]

So I am allowed to make my huge hunters ? If so, I need to decide on reptiles or cat people.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Apparently that common ancestor was a herbivore. Whodathunk.

@ I'd recommend scaling them down to eightish feet, as ten feet will be damnably hard to get a decent population of.

[Prusseusss]

Apparently that common ancestor was a herbivore. Whodathunk.

@ I'd recommend scaling them down to eightish feet, as ten feet will be damnably hard to get a decent population of.

Would nine work ?

[G-Tech Corporation]

Big Ogres really need a lot of food. I look forward to the era of siege warfare.

Considering we'll be on the offense...

Also, I'd like to see you try to lock us in the castle. The Oni are gonna be siege maniacs, mark my words.

Well, a decent Oni fortification is going to necessarily be weaker by mass unit, as it has to be larger to account for it's larger denizens. That means sieges will be more effective; also, larger beings means you need more food and water, meaning they need to defend a larger territory to survive, which means their numbers are spread thinner. Being large also means they'll have a difficult time assailing the fortifications of others, as defense doorways can easily be engineered smaller to allow defenders passage while blocking the Oni or leaving them at a distinct disadvantage.

And that's just off the top of my head.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Considering we'll be on the offense...

Also, I'd like to see you try to lock us in the castle. The Oni are gonna be siege maniacs, mark my words.

Well, a decent Oni fortification is going to necessarily be weaker by mass unit, as it has to be larger to account for it's larger denizens. That means sieges will be more effective; also, larger beings means you need more food and water, meaning they need to defend a larger territory to survive, which means their numbers are spread thinner. Being large also means they'll have a difficult time assailing the fortifications of others, as defense doorways can easily be engineered smaller to allow defenders passage while blocking the Oni or leaving them at a distinct disadvantage.

And that's just off the top of my head.

On the contrary, fortifications would be thicker to take into account the Oni's larger bulk, increasing the strength as a consequence. And while we do need more food and water, as stated before, we have larger livestock that, although it needs to be fed as well, we still use regular cattle and such, while a Scythid can survive off of small animals like snakes and goblins. And being larger is irrelevant, as we are only so by two or three feet; squatting a little would allow fitting through most doorways, unless you shrink the doors down to four feet.

And on the subject of Oni offense, the Oni would design their siege engine with Oni in mind; hence, they shall be larger and more powerful than other races'. Although we won't have bows early on, holding them off until either the invention of the crossbow or the longbow.

[Prusseusss]

What is a Scythid ?

[The Empire of Pretantia]

What is a Scythid ?

Long-legged four-limbed insectoid with lungs. Looks like those walkers from 9, except they're organic.

[Prusseusss]

Which should I use for the mammon ?


http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1366/06/1366066730360.jpg

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8356/weretiger65qy1.jpg

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Which should I use for the mammon ?


http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1366/06/1366066730360.jpg

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8356/weretiger65qy1.jpg

The lizard. It looks cooler.

[Neo-Assyrian Empire]

Which should I use for the mammon ?


http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1366/06/1366066730360.jpg

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8356/weretiger65qy1.jpg

The lizard. It looks cooler.

I second that. The cat doesn't look as cool as the lizard

[G-Tech Corporation]

Well, a decent Oni fortification is going to necessarily be weaker by mass unit, as it has to be larger to account for it's larger denizens. That means sieges will be more effective; also, larger beings means you need more food and water, meaning they need to defend a larger territory to survive, which means their numbers are spread thinner. Being large also means they'll have a difficult time assailing the fortifications of others, as defense doorways can easily be engineered smaller to allow defenders passage while blocking the Oni or leaving them at a distinct disadvantage.

And that's just off the top of my head.

On the contrary, fortifications would be thicker to take into account the Oni's larger bulk, increasing the strength as a consequence. And while we do need more food and water, as stated before, we have larger livestock that, although it needs to be fed as well, we still use regular cattle and such, while a Scythid can survive off of small animals like snakes and goblins. And being larger is irrelevant, as we are only so by two or three feet; squatting a little would allow fitting through most doorways, unless you shrink the doors down to four feet.

And on the subject of Oni offense, the Oni would design their siege engine with Oni in mind; hence, they shall be larger and more powerful than other races'. Although we won't have bows early on, holding them off until either the invention of the crossbow or the longbow.

Hmm, okay, let me address this by points.

Firstly, fortifications. Let's consider an example to illustrate the difference I meant by saying "per mass unit" as opposed to in general. An engineers wants to construct a parapet to allow two soldier to fire while two are protected behind standing height crenellations. He is using two foot talk by four foot wide blocks. He stacks

01100110
11111111
11111111

Allowing four six foot tall three foot wide soldiers to fight effectively, two fully protected and two two-thirds protected.

In order to achieve the same effect with Oni he has to stack

01100110
01100110
11111111
11111111

Using four more blocks to achieve less protection, even assuming an Oni can shelter behind a four foot wide block.

Essentially, Pret, you can make fortresses of the same strength; they will, however, take significantly more materials and man hours to construct. Also, given you need more structural support to hold up your larger warriors, you will need to put more materials into structural support as compared to defensive structures, as a percentage.

On the food point, I'm not sure I see how larger livestock help your case. In terms of land usage larger herd animals take up more acreage per beast. See cattle, the most inefficient large-scale form of food production in the modern world.

But lets assume larger herd animals are an advantage; other civilizations are assuredly capable of domesticating these larger animals, though they make take more time to do it. Let's say one Oni can live off of a Scythid for a year, and that Scythid consumes 100 goblins, which take half an acre of land to support from a food perspective, either in terms of lost opportunity cost or direct consumption. If two regular humanoids can be supported off of the same Scythid, those humanoids need half the land to support the same population as the Oni; thus the Oni will need a larger percentage of their population to be devoted to agriculture in order to support the same amount of population, because the Oni's larger size doesn't lead to significant increases in farmable land per individual as farming is not a scalable profession on an individual level.

Now, the doorway issue; a stooped soldier is a soldier fighting out of his regular stance, and this a soldier easier to defeat. Say, for instance, the enemy lowers their doorways to five feet. Their men have to duck at the neck to pass said doorways, but Oni have to bend double, a stance distinctly inimicable to melee combat.

[Prusseusss]

This is why the Mammon will eat all flesh.

[Vaxon]

Am I accepted or not?

[Photana]

Am I accepted or not?

Yes.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

On the contrary, fortifications would be thicker to take into account the Oni's larger bulk, increasing the strength as a consequence. And while we do need more food and water, as stated before, we have larger livestock that, although it needs to be fed as well, we still use regular cattle and such, while a Scythid can survive off of small animals like snakes and goblins. And being larger is irrelevant, as we are only so by two or three feet; squatting a little would allow fitting through most doorways, unless you shrink the doors down to four feet.

And on the subject of Oni offense, the Oni would design their siege engine with Oni in mind; hence, they shall be larger and more powerful than other races'. Although we won't have bows early on, holding them off until either the invention of the crossbow or the longbow.

Hmm, okay, let me address this by points.

Firstly, fortifications. Let's consider an example to illustrate the difference I meant by saying "per mass unit" as opposed to in general. An engineers wants to construct a parapet to allow two soldier to fire while two are protected behind standing height crenellations. He is using two foot talk by four foot wide blocks. He stacks

01100110
11111111
11111111

Allowing four six foot tall three foot wide soldiers to fight effectively, two fully protected and two two-thirds protected.

In order to achieve the same effect with Oni he has to stack

01100110
01100110
11111111
11111111

Using four more blocks to achieve less protection, even assuming an Oni can shelter behind a four foot wide block.

Essentially, Pret, you can make fortresses of the same strength; they will, however, take significantly more materials and man hours to construct. Also, given you need more structural support to hold up your larger warriors, you will need to put more materials into structural support as compared to defensive structures, as a percentage.

On the food point, I'm not sure I see how larger livestock help your case. In terms of land usage larger herd animals take up more acreage per beast. See cattle, the most inefficient large-scale form of food production in the modern world.

But lets assume larger herd animals are an advantage; other civilizations are assuredly capable of domesticating these larger animals, though they make take more time to do it. Let's say one Oni can live off of a Scythid for a year, and that Scythid consumes 100 goblins, which take half an acre of land to support from a food perspective, either in terms of lost opportunity cost or direct consumption. If two regular humanoids can be supported off of the same Scythid, those humanoids need half the land to support the same population as the Oni; thus the Oni will need a larger percentage of their population to be devoted to agriculture in order to support the same amount of population, because the Oni's larger size doesn't lead to significant increases in farmable land per individual as farming is not a scalable profession on an individual level.

Now, the doorway issue; a stooped soldier is a soldier fighting out of his regular stance, and this a soldier easier to defeat. Say, for instance, the enemy lowers their doorways to five feet. Their men have to duck at the neck to pass said doorways, but Oni have to bend double, a stance distinctly inimicable to melee combat.

Firstly, the Scythid's only useful for meat; an Oni can live off one for a week if rationed properly. I'll give you the stock though.

Secondly, I'll give you the wall; we will need more resources manpower to build a proper wall fit for an Oni. However, we got that manpower in spades. An Oni can carry more weight than a human, and they have the same life cycle, give five or so years.

Thirdly, I'll give you the door too.

Although the Oni will still have the offensive advantage.

[Vaxon]

Am I accepted or not?

Yes.

Yes! Now, Toxis Tyrannus, what shall I do with you first...?

[Prusseusss]

What do you guys think of this ?

[The Empire of Pretantia]

What do you guys think of this ?

(Image)

Too many limbs.

[Photana]

What do you guys think of this ?

(Image)

6 limbs, and a non-insect, that's a no-go.

[Prusseusss]

What do you guys think of this ?

(Image)

6 limbs, and a non-insect, that's a no-go.

1. I count four limbs. Those things on the bottom are just long feathers.
2. Its a bird.

[Photana]

6 limbs, and a non-insect, that's a no-go.

1. I count four limbs. Those things on the bottom are just long feathers.
2. Its a bird.

1. We were talking about the legs in the back of the picture.
2. I know. Only insects/squid-likes can have more than four limbs.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Actually, Pret, my point about the Oni and building stands. Every laborer is one less farming, and this needs to be fed. As arable land is the constraining factor, the Oni will have less well-built fortresses for the same amount of work automatically.

Lets say every human farmer can support two laborers, and every Oni farmer can support one laborer. Those two human farmers can, for purposes of argument, do a similar amount of work as the Oni, for the same amount of food, but the Oni need more stone to build the same quality of fortress.

Same food for the same labor.
Same labor for the same resources.
Different fortress for the same resources.

Hence, the Oni will, per unit of food put into construction, build an appreciably weaker fortress.

[Mishmahig]

Actually, Pret, my point about the Oni and building stands. Every laborer is one less farming, and this needs to be fed. As arable land is the constraining factor, the Oni will have less well-built fortresses for the same amount of work automatically.

Lets say every human farmer can support two laborers, and every Oni farmer can support one laborer. Those two human farmers can, for purposes of argument, do a similar amount of work as the Oni, for the same amount of food, but the Oni need more stone to build the same quality of fortress.

Same food for the same labor.
Same labor for the same resources.
Different fortress for the same resources.

Hence, the Oni will, per unit of food put into construction, build an appreciably weaker fortress.

To be fair, the Ver!tch have similar issues with our defensive fortifications. We're essentially giant Japanese spider crabs, so human-style fortifications won't work well against us (so we wouldn't build them, since we'd be fighting among ourselves initially), which has led to issues, since I can't think of other fortification styles that we'd use...

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Actually, Pret, my point about the Oni and building stands. Every laborer is one less farming, and this needs to be fed. As arable land is the constraining factor, the Oni will have less well-built fortresses for the same amount of work automatically.

Lets say every human farmer can support two laborers, and every Oni farmer can support one laborer. Those two human farmers can, for purposes of argument, do a similar amount of work as the Oni, for the same amount of food, but the Oni need more stone to build the same quality of fortress.

Same food for the same labor.
Same labor for the same resources.
Different fortress for the same resources.

Hence, the Oni will, per unit of food put into construction, build an appreciably weaker fortress.

OK, I get it. I'm still not yielding my offensive prowess though.