Let's All Violently Murder Each Other![RP Group]

[Sabara]

How would Belgium, such a tiny nation, keep any control over the Congo, or Rwanda and Burundi, considering they are thousands of miles apart?

How would Britain, that tiny island up in the north, keep control over such a vast empire, considering they are thousands of miles apart?

Because the British had one of the finest navies in the world at that time and Belgium massacred the natives in the Congo.

Power projection. It doesnt happen in Asia. Hokkaido is right next to the Shogunate and part of the Japanese Home Islands; no tiny Pacific country would be able to hold it.

Because the Europeans massacred the natives in Africa/Asia and had superior tech, they could keep control. No Pacific nation would be able to defend all those islands, and still have a economy.

Ryukyu, the Aleutians, and the Kurils are actually very small and not that populated.

As I have continued to explain, the Hokkaidan colonists wouldn't have massacred all the Maori, they would've kept good relations with them. Like the French in Canada.

[Sabara]

If I can't have NZ, I'm fine with just having Hokkaido, the Kurils, Ryukyu, and the Aleutians.

[Lunas Legion]

If I can't have NZ, I'm fine with just having Hokkaido, the Kurils, Ryukyu, and the Aleutians.

You'll still have the Shogunate to the south.

[Sabara]

If I can't have NZ, I'm fine with just having Hokkaido, the Kurils, Ryukyu, and the Aleutians.

You'll still have the Shogunate to the south.

So...?

[Arumdaum]

How would Belgium, such a tiny nation, keep any control over the Congo, or Rwanda and Burundi, considering they are thousands of miles apart?

How would Britain, that tiny island up in the north, keep control over such a vast empire, considering they are thousands of miles apart?

Because the British had one of the finest navies in the world at that time and Belgium massacred the natives in the Congo.

Power projection. It doesnt happen in Asia. Hokkaido is right next to the Shogunate and part of the Japanese Home Islands; no tiny Pacific country would be able to hold it.

Because the Europeans massacred the natives in Africa/Asia and had superior tech, they could keep control. No Pacific nation would be able to defend all those islands, and still have a economy.

What's to say that Hokkaido couldn't have had one of the finest navies in the world, or have massacred the native inhabitants of the region?

Power projection. Europe was only able to have it due to the lack of the industrial revolution starting in Britain, as well as due to how much they plundered the Americas.

I seriously that doubt that you have much, if any, knowledge of how world history has progressed, particularly outside of Europe, and what factors such as politics and geography played in them, considering how out of line it is with general academic knowledge of history and how it progressed, and why it happened as such.

China in the early 15th century could have easily created a vast Indian Ocean empire.

This is an alternate history. The royal family may never have been overtaken by the shogunate.

Hokkaido only became a part of Japan relatively recently. Prior to this, it was the home of the hunter-gatherer Ainu people. For the majority of Japanese history, beginning with the arrival of agriculture and bronze weapons to Kyushu roughly 600 BCE, Hokkaido was not part of Japan, and most of northern Japan, including the Tohoku region and the Kanto plain, were populated by the Emishi people, who were eventually driven out.

European technology was in fact, behind the rest of the world for the vast majority of human history. Europe did not get ahead until the Roman Empire, and then again, following its collapse, the most developed region passed on towards being East Asia, which it would hold until the late 18th century, when the industrial revolution in Britain put Europe back on top.

European nations were unable to hold much beyond the coast in Africa until the late 19th century with the invention of things such as steampower, quinine, and tonic, which made it possible to actual advance beyond the coast.

Furthermore, to assume that Pacific nations were all a monolithic block of sameness is the same as assuming that all Atlantic nations were just like those in the Congo, or those in Northwest Europe.

[Arumdaum]

How would Belgium, such a tiny nation, keep any control over the Congo, or Rwanda and Burundi, considering they are thousands of miles apart?

How would Britain, that tiny island up in the north, keep control over such a vast empire, considering they are thousands of miles apart?

Belgium was basically awarded it because none of the other major powers wanted the others to have it.

Wasn't it actually largely due to the Anglo-French rivalry during the Scramble for Africa?

But either way, I was trying to make a point that Hokkaido's mere size did not determine whether or not it could colonize, and how it's hypocritical to not question European nations on the feasibility of colonizing, but rather only non-European nations.

[Arumdaum]

Because the British had one of the finest navies in the world at that time and Belgium massacred the natives in the Congo.

Power projection. It doesnt happen in Asia. Hokkaido is right next to the Shogunate and part of the Japanese Home Islands; no tiny Pacific country would be able to hold it.

Because the Europeans massacred the natives in Africa/Asia and had superior tech, they could keep control. No Pacific nation would be able to defend all those islands, and still have a economy.

What's to say that Hokkaido couldn't have had one of the finest navies in the world, or have massacred the native inhabitants of the region?

Power projection. Europe was only able to have it due to the lack of the industrial revolution starting in Britain, as well as due to how much they plundered the Americas.

I seriously that doubt that you have much, if any, knowledge of how world history has progressed, particularly outside of Europe, and what factors such as politics and geography played in them, considering how out of line it is with general academic knowledge of history and how it progressed, and why it happened as such.

China in the early 15th century could have easily created a vast Indian Ocean empire.

This is an alternate history. The royal family may never have been overtaken by the shogunate.

Hokkaido only became a part of Japan relatively recently. Prior to this, it was the home of the hunter-gatherer Ainu people. For the majority of Japanese history, beginning with the arrival of agriculture and bronze weapons to Kyushu roughly 600 BCE, Hokkaido was not part of Japan, and most of northern Japan, including the Tohoku region and the Kanto plain, were populated by the Emishi people, who were eventually driven out.

European technology was in fact, behind the rest of the world for the vast majority of human history. Europe did not get ahead until the Roman Empire, and then again, following its collapse, the most developed region passed on towards being East Asia, which it would hold until the late 18th century, when the industrial revolution in Britain put Europe back on top.

European nations were unable to hold much beyond the coast in Africa until the late 19th century with the invention of things such as steampower, quinine, and tonic, which made it possible to actual advance beyond the coast.

Furthermore, to assume that Pacific nations were all a monolithic block of sameness is the same as assuming that all Atlantic nations were just like those in the Congo, or those in Northwest Europe.

Oh right, not to mention that Japan was actually considering during the era of Toyotomi Hideyoshi and the early Edo period, there were plans to conquer the Philippines from the Spanish.

[Lunas Legion]

You'll still have the Shogunate to the south.

So...?

Well, I'll write my history first. Considering you'll need it for your nation.

And Arum-
What's your point? That somewhere like Ezo (I use the old name) could build a empire? Not going to happen. Why?

1- Navigation. The Euros had all their instruments, the Ainu people didn't.
2- Need. Why would the Ainu need a empire? They had all the resources that they needed. The Euros went exploring for wealth, resources and glory. And because their neighbours were.

And about Hideyoshi- he tried to invade Korea twice. Both attempts failed.

[Vehemia]

Belgium was basically awarded it because none of the other major powers wanted the others to have it.

Wasn't it actually largely due to the Anglo-French rivalry during the Scramble for Africa?

But either way, I was trying to make a point that Hokkaido's mere size did not determine whether or not it could colonize, and how it's hypocritical to not question European nations on the feasibility of colonizing, but rather only non-European nations.

That's what I was trying to say.

I get what you're trying to say about Asia and I agree that some could have colonized. Really the only thing holding China back was its philosophy and cultural heritage. In Hokkaido's case I just don't see it happening. It was populated by hunter gatherers for most of its history until I believe the 18th or 19th century. It is alternate history, but I think changing major human migratory patterns and the areas that agriculture developed in would be a bit out there.

[Sabara]

So...?

Well, I'll write my history first. Considering you'll need it for your nation.

And Arum-
What's your point? That somewhere like Ezo (I use the old name) could build a empire? Not going to happen. Why?

1- Navigation. The Euros had all their instruments, the Ainu people didn't.
2- Need. Why would the Ainu need a empire? They had all the resources that they needed. The Euros went exploring for wealth, resources and glory. And because their neighbours were.

And about Hideyoshi- he tried to invade Korea twice. Both attempts failed.

Actually, you can't dictate MY history. So I'll follow it if it suits what I'm planning to do... Also, why don't the Ainu have dreams of exploration?

[Lunas Legion]

Well, I'll write my history first. Considering you'll need it for your nation.

And Arum-
What's your point? That somewhere like Ezo (I use the old name) could build a empire? Not going to happen. Why?

1- Navigation. The Euros had all their instruments, the Ainu people didn't.
2- Need. Why would the Ainu need a empire? They had all the resources that they needed. The Euros went exploring for wealth, resources and glory. And because their neighbours were.

And about Hideyoshi- he tried to invade Korea twice. Both attempts failed.

Actually, you can't dictate MY history. So I'll follow it if it suits what I'm planning to do... Also, why don't the Ainu have dreams of exploration?

Name any tribe of hunter-gatherers that ever created a empire that lasted for 90+ years.

[Arumdaum]

Actually, you can't dictate MY history. So I'll follow it if it suits what I'm planning to do... Also, why don't the Ainu have dreams of exploration?

Name any tribe of hunter-gatherers that ever created a empire that lasted for 90+ years.

Every human group in history was formerly hunter-gatherer.

What's to say that they couldn't have begun agriculture?

[Lunas Legion]

Name any tribe of hunter-gatherers that ever created a empire that lasted for 90+ years.

Every human group in history was formerly hunter-gatherer.

What's to say that they couldn't have begun agriculture?

Those groups settled down a long time ago. The Ainu didn't.

[Sabara]

Actually, you can't dictate MY history. So I'll follow it if it suits what I'm planning to do... Also, why don't the Ainu have dreams of exploration?

Name any tribe of hunter-gatherers that ever created a empire that lasted for 90+ years.

This is Alternate History. Hokkaido itself could have been colonized by Japanese from Honshu in the 1400s+...

[Vehemia]

Name any tribe of hunter-gatherers that ever created a empire that lasted for 90+ years.

Every human group in history was formerly hunter-gatherer.

What's to say that they couldn't have begun agriculture?

Independent agriculture was only developed in around four or five areas in the world.

[Arumdaum]

Every human group in history was formerly hunter-gatherer.

What's to say that they couldn't have begun agriculture?

Independent agriculture was only developed in around four or five areas in the world.

Six or seven, actually, because agriculture spread pretty rapidly.

But this isn't independent invention. Agriculture is literally everywhere around Hokkaido. The Ainu just managed to resist it for a long time.

[Lunas Legion]

Name any tribe of hunter-gatherers that ever created a empire that lasted for 90+ years.

This is Alternate History. Hokkaido itself could have been colonized by Japanese from Honshu in the 1400s+...

Maybe you're the Emperor of Japan in exile after the Shogunate removed him following the Emperors defeat in a Meiji restoration style event?

[Arumdaum]

Every human group in history was formerly hunter-gatherer.

What's to say that they couldn't have begun agriculture?

Those groups settled down a long time ago. The Ainu didn't.

And?..

[Sabara]

This is Alternate History. Hokkaido itself could have been colonized by Japanese from Honshu in the 1400s+...

Maybe you're the Emperor of Japan in exile after the Shogunate removed him following the Emperors defeat in a Meiji restoration style event?

What do you mean? What does that have to do with colonizing NZ?

[Arumdaum]

This is Alternate History. Hokkaido itself could have been colonized by Japanese from Honshu in the 1400s+...

Maybe you're the Emperor of Japan in exile after the Shogunate removed him following the Emperors defeat in a Meiji restoration style event?

That's incredibly problematic, considering it requires history to occur in the same progression as it did from the beginning of history to the late 19th century.

The Shogunate derived its legitimacy from the Emperor. There's no chance they were going to do that.

[Sabara]

Maybe you're the Emperor of Japan in exile after the Shogunate removed him following the Emperors defeat in a Meiji restoration style event?

That's incredibly problematic, considering it requires history to occur in the same progression as it did from the beginning of history to the late 19th century.

The Shogunate derived its legitimacy from the Emperor. There's no chance they were going to do that.

During the Meiji Restoration the Emperor stayed in power in Japan, so that's a very valid point. =p

[Lunas Legion]

That's incredibly problematic, considering it requires history to occur in the same progression as it did from the beginning of history to the late 19th century.

The Shogunate derived its legitimacy from the Emperor. There's no chance they were going to do that.

During the Meiji Restoration the Emperor stayed in power in Japan, so that's a very valid point. =p

Or the Imperial supporters?

[Vehemia]

Independent agriculture was only developed in around four or five areas in the world.

Six or seven, actually, because agriculture spread pretty rapidly.

But this isn't independent invention. Agriculture is literally everywhere around Hokkaido. The Ainu just managed to resist it for a long time.

I meant where it sprang up on its own, rather than being spread from somewhere else.

Generally the only reason agriculture is adopted is necessity and the Ainu were doing fine without it.

[Arumdaum]

So...?

Well, I'll write my history first. Considering you'll need it for your nation.

And Arum-
What's your point? That somewhere like Ezo (I use the old name) could build a empire? Not going to happen. Why?

1- Navigation. The Euros had all their instruments, the Ainu people didn't.
2- Need. Why would the Ainu need a empire? They had all the resources that they needed. The Euros went exploring for wealth, resources and glory. And because their neighbours were.

And about Hideyoshi- he tried to invade Korea twice. Both attempts failed.

You do realize that East Asia had more advanced instruments for navigation, right? Europe acquired them indirectly due to contact with the Arabs and the Chinese.

The Ainu, of course, didn't possess them, because felt no need to settle down and build cities until recently. This was largely as Korea and Japan were especially rich in food, in this case seafood, which enabled large populations of hunter-gatherers which would settle down. Similar situations occurred in the Baltic, which was also eventually overtaken by farmers, as well as in the Chumash, who were wiped out by Afro-Eurasian diseases originating from large domesticated mammals such as camels, sheep, and horses.

However, eventually, overpopulation, and the encroachment of agriculture meant that agriculture would eventually arrive.

Agriculture developed in China around 7500 BCE, but was only able to arrive in Korea around 1500 BCE due to the resistance of hunter-gatherers. Agriculture then arrived in Japan in 600 BCE, and then gradually expanded northwards. Sabara can easily say that the expansion of agriculture was much more quicker than in real life, or that the Japanese colonization of Hokkaido occurred much before it did in real life. Nor is Japan anywhere close to self-sufficient, despite the formerly significant reserves of silver present there.

Why did Europe need an empire? Europe did not begin explorations until the rise of the Ottoman Empire and Venice, who became the middlemen for the travel of goods from everywhere in Asia to Europe. Glory did not really come into the picture until the rise of nationalism during the 19th century.

In the quest to avoid the dreaded Turks and the hated Venetians, they ventured to find new ways to the East. The same, however, could easily have been done for China during the 15th century, which had its own travels, except with ships that were much, much bigger, and many, many more men. China, however, saw itself as self-sufficient, and there was no threat to its power, nor did it have any competition, and the threat of invasion from the north meant that money was needed to defend China's borders from groups such as the Jurchens and the Mongols. Conservative isolationists were also against these travels which brought foreign influences to China.

If China were divided, much like Europe were, there would have been more competition, which would mean that China could have sent explorers, and if they were successful, their neighboring rivals would begin doing the same, setting off much the same reactions that occurred in Europe irl.

Hideyoshi's thwarted attempts to invade Korea did not come from his failure as a general or due to technology, actually, but rather due to the naval brilliance of Yi Sun-shin, who significantly hurt supply lines, and made contact with Hideyoshi, who commanded the campaigns from Japan, to his armies in Korea, difficult.

It was around this time that guns began coming to Japan, and during this period, Japan produced more guns than all of Europe combined. Japanese ships (pirates), could be found all over the western coast of the Pacific, as well as in the Indian Ocean.

[Arumdaum]

Six or seven, actually, because agriculture spread pretty rapidly.

But this isn't independent invention. Agriculture is literally everywhere around Hokkaido. The Ainu just managed to resist it for a long time.

I meant where it sprang up on its own, rather than being spread from somewhere else.

Generally the only reason agriculture is adopted is necessity and the Ainu were doing fine without it.

Yeah, I know.

There are either six or seven, considering whether agriculture developed independently in Pakistan is disputed.

1. Hilly Flanks
2. Between the Huanghe and Yangzi rivers in China
3. Peru
4. Mesoamerica
5. New Guinea
6. Eastern Sahara
7?. Indus Valley

Agriculture was not adopted out of necessity. For the most part, it was actually a slow process, from not very intensive agriculture to more intensive agriculture, as well as waves of colonists from agricultural communities in hunter-gatherer areas.