Smoke and Steel: An alt-history RP (OOC/Now Closed)

[Zgraja]

I will gladly annex the Aztec lands into my PNW colony lol

[Dwartzur]

I will gladly annex the Aztec lands into my PNW colony lol

Make sure all those nice musicians from Los Angeles live and you'll have no problems with me. /nod

[Kershya]

The United Federation of Dvipantaran States is in peace right now, so I don't know what to do until the formation of the Socialist International.

How are you planning to handle that, btw? It sounds fun.

First is to found it, then to organize it, then to find any nation that wants to join, more or less.

[Neros]

How are you planning to handle that, btw? It sounds fun.

First is to found it, then to organize it, then to find any nation that wants to join, more or less.

We need the Nordic Model to become a reality!

[Halleon]

Is the Suez Canal closed to not only Russia but all of their allies who aren't even yet involved in the conflict?

[Glasgia]

Is the Suez Canal closed to not only Russia but all of their allies who aren't even yet involved in the conflict?

Anyone fighting alongside Russia. If you're allied to them but neutral in the war, then you are fine. If you're at war with me and the UHS....

As far as I can remember, feel free to prove otherwise, the investors were me and UHS from the IC, while I'll assume the Ionian League did invest in the end as they said they would OOC but never got around to it IC.

[Halleon]

Is the Suez Canal closed to not only Russia but all of their allies who aren't even yet involved in the conflict?

Anyone fighting alongside Russia. If you're allied to them but neutral in the war, then you are fine. If you're at war with me and the UHS....

As far as I can remember, feel free to prove otherwise, the investors were me and UHS from the IC, while I'll assume the Ionian League did invest in the end as they said they would OOC but never got around to it IC.

Well as far as I remember the UHS brought it up at the Great Pact conference and I did have plans to invest as I think everyone in the Pact was gonna do. If the Canal gets closed to France or any French Merchants end up shooting themselves in that area and word gets leaked out well I'm just gonna consider that as provoking France into joining the War especially if I invested money into the Canal only to be cut off.

Might be wrong but I'm almost positive all the Pact Members were invited to invest but the rp got cut off before I could actually do any investing the same goes for Ionian League investing.

[Glasgia]

Tyben, cut the shit. I'm not gonna argue too much, but fourteen thousand dragoons firing upon your men has got to do something more than 'non-existent' casualties. I will continue to attempt to RP fairly but it doesn't help when you're convinced your soldiers are gods.

Anyone fighting alongside Russia. If you're allied to them but neutral in the war, then you are fine. If you're at war with me and the UHS....

As far as I can remember, feel free to prove otherwise, the investors were me and UHS from the IC, while I'll assume the Ionian League did invest in the end as they said they would OOC but never got around to it IC.

Well as far as I remember the UHS brought it up at the Great Pact conference and I did have plans to invest as I think everyone in the Pact was gonna do. If the Canal gets closed to France or any French Merchants end up shooting themselves in that area and word gets leaked out well I'm just gonna consider that as provoking France into joining the War especially if I invested money into the Canal only to be cut off.

Might be wrong but I'm almost positive all the Pact Members were invited to invest but the rp got cut off before I could actually do any investing the same goes for Ionian League investing.

Sure, you'd have some troops in the area then. I'll read through the treaty, but I'm not sure what the rules are on closing the canal. I've probably violated them by now anyway... Ok, no laws on blockading the canal. However, troops in the area are under the control of the Organising Comittee. If me and UHS are the largest shareholders, then you and the Ionians, you'd be voted outvoted on whether to blockade Russia or not.

Also, I decided that Bardawil and Suez would be international cities, in the same way Shanghai was before the Japanese invasion. Just makes sense, considering the number of merchants going through the area and how many diferrent nationalities take part in controlling the area.

[Halleon]

How would I go about increasing my shareholders and how can I ensure that France doesn't loose access just because France is allied with Russia? Another thing I'm wondering is the UHS sent a force of 450,000 but in their app they listed their military as 400,00 did he increase his military? If he did that's understandable however wouldn't that be leaving the UHS slightly un defended?

Just some questions I've been wondering about.

[Tyben]

Tyben, cut the shit. I'm not gonna argue too much, but fourteen thousand dragoons firing upon your men has got to do something more than 'non-existent' casualties. I will continue to attempt to RP fairly but it doesn't help when you're convinced your soldiers are gods.

Well as far as I remember the UHS brought it up at the Great Pact conference and I did have plans to invest as I think everyone in the Pact was gonna do. If the Canal gets closed to France or any French Merchants end up shooting themselves in that area and word gets leaked out well I'm just gonna consider that as provoking France into joining the War especially if I invested money into the Canal only to be cut off.

Might be wrong but I'm almost positive all the Pact Members were invited to invest but the rp got cut off before I could actually do any investing the same goes for Ionian League investing.

Sure, you'd have some troops in the area then. I'll read through the treaty, but I'm not sure what the rules are on closing the canal. I've probably violated them by now anyway... Ok, no laws on blockading the canal. However, troops in the area are under the control of the Organising Comittee. If me and UHS are the largest shareholders, then you and the Ionians, you'd be voted outvoted on whether to blockade Russia or not.

Also, I decided that Bardawil and Suez would be international cities, in the same way Shanghai was before the Japanese invasion. Just makes sense, considering the number of merchants going through the area and how many diferrent nationalities take part in controlling the area.

... Are you retarded? I have to seriously ask. You're saying that your dragoons are sprinting over several hundred yards and firing while they're sprint their horses, and you expect them to hit my troops accurately? No, that's not how it works, you can't expect to get a large casualty amount on my force from conditions that would make it nearly impossible to fire accurately, plus the fact that your troops are using heavy weapons, it will through your aim off by a lot, plus the fact that sprinting a horse both fatigues the soldier and the horse, making it even harder to shoot accurately. Plus the fact that horses are scared of artillery fire, if one cannon ball lands near your horses, they will probably buck the rider off and flee, so I think I'm being pretty realistic.

Following that, you are having them fire then flee back behind my range, a tactic that makes it even harder to get an accurate shot, they want to fire as quickly as they can and then flee.

[Glasgia]

Tyben, cut the shit. I'm not gonna argue too much, but fourteen thousand dragoons firing upon your men has got to do something more than 'non-existent' casualties. I will continue to attempt to RP fairly but it doesn't help when you're convinced your soldiers are gods.

... Are you retarded? I have to seriously ask. You're saying that your dragoons are sprinting over several hundred yards and firing while they're sprint their horses, and you expect them to hit my troops accurately? No, that's not how it works, you can't expect to get a large casualty amount on my force from conditions that would make it nearly impossible to fire accurately, plus the fact that your troops are using heavy weapons, it will through your aim off by a lot, plus the fact that sprinting a horse both fatigues the soldier and the horse, making it even harder to shoot accurately. Plus the fact that horses are scared of artillery fire, if one cannon ball lands near your horses, they will probably buck the rider off and flee, so I think I'm being pretty realistic.

Following that, you are having them fire then flee back behind my range, a tactic that makes it even harder to get an accurate shot, they want to fire as quickly as they can and then flee.

First of all, galloping does not equal sprinting. Think of it like a fast jog. Even a marskmen on the ground would have a hard job of picking anyone off at a thousand yards, so you're right that it's not accurate. However, even in your amazing pohalanx formations, there's a fifty fifty chance that you'll hit home if the bullet goes anywhere near the formation, especially as the fact my guys haave been trained in horse marksmanship more than anything else reduces the disadvantage of firing from horseback. And, though admittedly Dreyse's are a lot heavier then their counterparts of the time, I have stated time and time again my troops use carbines versions, reducing accuracy but allowing for easier aiming. As for fleeing back, they clearly take their time aiming and firing before racing back.

Also, battle trained horses do not flee from artillery any more than soldiers. Regular horses do, yes, but there would be no point in having cavalry if all the riders found themselves bucked as soon as the first shot was fired.

Anyway, it's mainly your attidute that I have a problem with. While I'd accept if you decided your troops were only taking low, though not 'non-existent', casualties, as that's your call, you then devote a whole paragraph to explaining why your forces are better than mine. My guys are elite - just the 0.8% of my population that are the best at fighting. I have a whole militia, my national guard, dedicated to arming volunteers, who might be accepted into other armies as average, who don't make the cut, for use in defensive operations. I'll accept if you want to win the battle, but only if you do so fairly.

[Blassland]

Maybe we chill the name-calling down....

[Blassland]

How would I go about increasing my shareholders and how can I ensure that France doesn't loose access just because France is allied with Russia? Another thing I'm wondering is the UHS sent a force of 450,000 but in their app they listed their military as 400,00 did he increase his military? If he did that's understandable however wouldn't that be leaving the UHS slightly un defended?

Just some questions I've been wondering about.

I cannot answer your question about shareholders, but he could have mobilized reserves, volunteers, and militia which could easily field tens of thousands of soldiers that could defend and even go oversees
The homeland would probably be under-defended tho

[Glasgia]

How would I go about increasing my shareholders and how can I ensure that France doesn't loose access just because France is allied with Russia? Another thing I'm wondering is the UHS sent a force of 450,000 but in their app they listed their military as 400,00 did he increase his military? If he did that's understandable however wouldn't that be leaving the UHS slightly un defended?

Just some questions I've been wondering about.

I think he actually sent a force of 350,000, 3 not 4, as well as increasing his military. Yeah, he's undefended but I don't see why he has any threats to worry about... Does he, aggressive France allied with his enemies?

As for shareholders, I think you would just have to make a post about how you're raising the money and then send a letter to two guys, one with a Tatar name and the other which an Egyptian name.

Maybe we chill the name-calling down....

Hey, I haven't called him anything. I've been fairly aggressive and a bit of a dick to get my point across, but I haven't 'name-called'.

[Halleon]

Just curiosity on my part don't have any plans of invading the UHS or taking direct military action not even sure what role I'm gonna take in this conflict. Well when you send a large chunk of your military away to fight in a conflict well that brings up a lot of problems anything from civil unrest to colonial revolts. If access to the Canal is being blocked then yeah hes pissing off several powers who might decide to take military action, I don't want the rp to turn into a oh lets number spam our enemy to death and that goes to both or any side of the conflict.

[Glasgia]

Just curiosity on my part don't have any plans of invading the UHS or taking direct military action not even sure what role I'm gonna take in this conflict. Well when you send a large chunk of your military away to fight in a conflict well that brings up a lot of problems anything from civil unrest to colonial revolts. If access to the Canal is being blocked then yeah hes pissing off several powers who might decide to take military action, I don't want the rp to turn into a oh lets number spam our enemy to death and that goes to both or any side of the conflict.

Fair enough, obviously I'd like you to join on my side but that's up to you. Just to remind you, we're only conducting searches and detaining Russian citizens - Even then, quite a few could slip through claiming to be Serbs, Ukrainians, Poles or any other slavic ethnicity with a similiar accent.

[Halleon]

I can promise that I won't be rushing in with guns blazing or anything drastic since this is one of those conflicts that tend to start a bigger war. Thinking about mainly staying neutral but offering diplomatic support to Russia in the conflict but staying out of it as long as Prussia doesn't jump in. All of that could change though depending on how things play out in Ic, there's still the Russo Hansa Conflict I gotta deal with.

[Tyben]

... Are you retarded? I have to seriously ask. You're saying that your dragoons are sprinting over several hundred yards and firing while they're sprint their horses, and you expect them to hit my troops accurately? No, that's not how it works, you can't expect to get a large casualty amount on my force from conditions that would make it nearly impossible to fire accurately, plus the fact that your troops are using heavy weapons, it will through your aim off by a lot, plus the fact that sprinting a horse both fatigues the soldier and the horse, making it even harder to shoot accurately. Plus the fact that horses are scared of artillery fire, if one cannon ball lands near your horses, they will probably buck the rider off and flee, so I think I'm being pretty realistic.

Following that, you are having them fire then flee back behind my range, a tactic that makes it even harder to get an accurate shot, they want to fire as quickly as they can and then flee.

First of all, galloping does not equal sprinting. Think of it like a fast jog. Even a marskmen on the ground would have a hard job of picking anyone off at a thousand yards, so you're right that it's not accurate. However, even in your amazing pohalanx formations, there's a fifty fifty chance that you'll hit home if the bullet goes anywhere near the formation, especially as the fact my guys haave been trained in horse marksmanship more than anything else reduces the disadvantage of firing from horseback. And, though admittedly Dreyse's are a lot heavier then their counterparts of the time, I have stated time and time again my troops use carbines versions, reducing accuracy but allowing for easier aiming. As for fleeing back, they clearly take their time aiming and firing before racing back.

Also, battle trained horses do not flee from artillery any more than soldiers. Regular horses do, yes, but there would be no point in having cavalry if all the riders found themselves bucked as soon as the first shot was fired.

Anyway, it's mainly your attidute that I have a problem with. While I'd accept if you decided your troops were only taking low, though not 'non-existent', casualties, as that's your call, you then devote a whole paragraph to explaining why your forces are better than mine. My guys are elite - just the 0.8% of my population that are the best at fighting. I have a whole militia, my national guard, dedicated to arming volunteers, who might be accepted into other armies as average, who don't make the cut, for use in defensive operations. I'll accept if you want to win the battle, but only if you do so fairly.

I don't think you understand how difficult it is to take a shot while riding horseback, and your expecting to not get hit while your horses make the rider a bigger target, and you are running into my army's range without any infantry and artillery cover fire. Besides that fact, I'm from Texas, I know people who have rode horses since they were young children, they cannot fire a gun from horseback accurately while their horse is moving, seriously. Then you have to think, the carbine versions of your rifles are going to be reduced in power and accuracy, and they're still going to be pretty heavy in comparison to my troops' guns. As for clearly taking their time aiming, then you are just asking to have them shot while they are aiming.

And I don't think you realize, horses become useless very quickly, they are a living thing, they can't take on bullets, it's like how humans die from a shot or how the can't use their leg if they get shot in it. Furthermore, there is no "training" you can give a horse to make it less afraid of a freaking cannon shot, if a cannon shot is heard horses are going to get scared, there is no training or special breeding process that can change that.

I said nearly non-existent casualties, you can't expect for my forces to accept alot of casualties using those tactics. Furthermore, those paragraphs were put there so you understand why I wasn't accepting very many casualties, Jesus Christ. The most skilled .8% you say? Well, the population of that area you control in Eurasia is very low, only 1-3 million people actually live inside your country, and plus you have to account for the troops you have in your colonies, because I doubt you have your elite troops stationed only in the homeland, that would make your colonial defenses so weak.

Your sending your forces in to a No-Man's Land where there is artillery fire and infantry fire, if any of those bullets hit your horses or your soldier, it is very likely they won't be able to fight for very much longer, especially considering what bullets were made of at this time. One of the bullets that I'm using, a Minie Style bullet, would rip through a body, leaving a massive hole in its place, if you were to say get hit in the very edge of your collarbone, you would still die from the bullet, if you were hit in the leg or if the horse was hit in the leg, the leg would be blown off.

Furthermore, your dragoons are firing one shot then turning around, opening their back to my forces, without even cover fire. How do you expect to keep your dragoons alive for very long when your rushing them in and then turning around after firing one shot and they're getting shot at while they are having no cover fire from your infantry or artillery to prevent them from getting killed?

Seriously, I'm trying to be realistic here dude, I'm not having an attitude, and you and your buddies need to stop getting so uppity when I'm telling you Russia is better than you think. Just because you beat the last guy who was Russia, doesn't mean Russia is weak, it has one of the largest economies in the world, probably in the top 3, considering the sheer size of its population, the amount of natural resources(including metals), the size of its railroad, and the fact that India and the North American colonies are not in the ownership of Britain, plus the fact that I could've easily just mobilized and sent a 3.5 million man army down there without even going over the 5% that we are allowed to have during peacetime, I don't think it is too much to ask to be able to beat a country who's victory in the Crimean War was only because it had the support of numerous colonial powers(including Britain).

[Neros]

I'm beginning to rethink my loyalties and benefits in this war...

Can someone from the Middle Eastern Alliance tell me (or TG me) what I can get from operating against Russia?

[Blassland]

Seriously, I'm trying to be realistic here dude, I'm not having an attitude, and you and your buddies need to stop getting so uppity when I'm telling you Russia is better than you think. Just because you beat the last guy who was Russia, doesn't mean Russia is weak, it has one of the largest economies in the world, probably in the top 3, considering the sheer size of its population, the amount of natural resources(including metals), the size of its railroad, and the fact that India and the North American colonies are not in the ownership of Britain, plus the fact that I could've easily just mobilized and sent a 3.5 million man army down there without even going over the 5% that we are allowed to have during peacetime, I don't think it is too much to ask to be able to beat a country who's victory in the Crimean War was only because it had the support of numerous colonial powers(including Britain).

Buddies? Uppity?

[Tyben]

Seriously, I'm trying to be realistic here dude, I'm not having an attitude, and you and your buddies need to stop getting so uppity when I'm telling you Russia is better than you think. Just because you beat the last guy who was Russia, doesn't mean Russia is weak, it has one of the largest economies in the world, probably in the top 3, considering the sheer size of its population, the amount of natural resources(including metals), the size of its railroad, and the fact that India and the North American colonies are not in the ownership of Britain, plus the fact that I could've easily just mobilized and sent a 3.5 million man army down there without even going over the 5% that we are allowed to have during peacetime, I don't think it is too much to ask to be able to beat a country who's victory in the Crimean War was only because it had the support of numerous colonial powers(including Britain).

Buddies? Uppity?

Indeed, you guys are uppity.

[Blassland]

Indeed, you guys are uppity.

What have I done to be called 'uppity'?

[Alleniana]

I didn't forget Poland, you just didn't ask. My reasoning with you is much the same - You border both Prussia and me. Fighting Prussia would mean a huge land war, in which Russia's forces would be tied down elsewhere. You would lose. Meanwhile, the combined strength of you and Prussia could easily drive the Russians to Moscow. As I said you Scandinavia, your neighbours would all either be controllable - weakened Russia - or friendly - Prussia and me. If Sweden fights Russia, then you might as well too.

Tsk...tsk... I can deploy one million troops, and that is just active, not including my reserves. I have plenty of troops and they are well-armed, I buy weaponry in bulk. So even when Russia is weakened, it can take on most nations and win, look at Russia vs. Finland and the 3rd Reich during World War 2. You assume that Russia is weak when in fact it is probably the strongest existing country at this point, if you want to be frank about it. Besides that fact, I could easily take St. Petersburg back if I got it taken from me, I can deploy MILLIONS of men without even being in war time.

Furthermore, if I have to I will be willing to deploy troops to protect my allies' borders, as is my duty as a member of the Northern Alliance.

Lolno.

Also, "non-existent"?
No.
If I had a clown riding backwards on a unicycle armed with pointy plastic bottles who was throwing them at your unit, then that description would be accurate.

[The Soodean Imperium]

Okay. For the last time, why is it that whenever I go offline I come back to find Tyben arguing with Glasgia? Now let me sort this out:

1) Due to the imperfect seal in the breech, the Dreyse rifle had terrible accuracy to begin with; carbine versions fired from a galloping horse are probably ineffective out to at least 400 meters. Meanwhile, the Russian soldiers are standing in place with Minie rifles, and a horse galloping towards you makes a very easy target. So, in all likelihood, the cavalry charge would have taken heavy losses to enemy fire during its approach. However, once they got into range, the dragoons would have still inflicted moderate losses. Think of the Dragoon fire as a giant shotgun: you're not aiming for that one Russian soldier in the front of the line, you're aiming for the entire formation, and at least a few bullets are going to hit.

2) Russia the USSR defeated Nazi Germany against all odds while the other big powers watched from across the ocean, but they still lost in Afghanistan. France conquered all of Europe in the Napoleonic wars, but they were badly humiliated in the Franco-Prussian War. Prussia fought off all the RL Northern Alliance countries in the Seven Years' War, but they were eventually ground down by World War One. Just because you won against the odds in one RL war doesn't mean that you will win every battle in this RP. This is where we get the "Alt-" in "Alt-History."

4) The last thing I want is for this OOC thread to be clogged with name-calling and OOC insults. Remember two things: first, the best IC enemies are your OOC friends; second, nobody ever convinced anyone of anything by insulting them. Please stay polite, and bear in mind that you're only one of two dozen people who have come to this RP in order to have a good time.

Finally, @ Tyben: there's a long list of phrases that you shouldn't use in any RP. "your attack inflicted non-existent casualties," "I'm probably the strongest country in the world at this point," and "you and your buddies need to stop getting so uppity" are three of them. They create a false impression that you're overconfident or likely to godmod, even if that isn't the case. For your own sake, be a little more humble when you post.

And before you say anything, this has nothing to do with a bias against Russia. I'm a huge fan of Russo-Soviet military history, and my main IC nation uses all-Russian equipment in battle. I'd even argue that some Russian military equipment is more advanced that its NATO counterparts. But if you constantly march around saying that you're unbeatable, it gives you a poor reputation ICly and OOCly, to the point that nobody wants to play with you.

[The Blazing Aura]

Anyone fighting alongside Russia. If you're allied to them but neutral in the war, then you are fine. If you're at war with me and the UHS....

As far as I can remember, feel free to prove otherwise, the investors were me and UHS from the IC, while I'll assume the Ionian League did invest in the end as they said they would OOC but never got around to it IC.

Well as far as I remember the UHS brought it up at the Great Pact conference and I did have plans to invest as I think everyone in the Pact was gonna do. If the Canal gets closed to France or any French Merchants end up shooting themselves in that area and word gets leaked out well I'm just gonna consider that as provoking France into joining the War especially if I invested money into the Canal only to be cut off.

Might be wrong but I'm almost positive all the Pact Members were invited to invest but the rp got cut off before I could actually do any investing the same goes for Ionian League investing.

My view on it was that the Qirim and the Ionians were the two major shareholders, cos whilst it was bought up at the Great Pact conference it was never finalized before the conference close down. So the forts guarding the canal are manned primarily by the Sultanate's Eight Army but also by Qirim and Ionian Soldiers along with free trade through the canal whilst those shareholders from the Great Pact merely have a reduced tax rate for using the Canal.

However with the UHS out of the Pact and unlikely to enter it if it was reforged it does mean that now unbound by the Great Pact itself if a member of the old Pact does go to war with the UHS then the canal is shut to them

@Halleon I must have mistyped something I only have a professional force of 400,000 troops and only 350,000 of them are moving to help the Qirim. and I have 2 million or so Militia helping defend the Sultanate