Not really, just the Tsar of Poland/anything that impeaches my allies' land, because the rest of it WILL happen.
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by Zgraja » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:47 pm
by Alleniana » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:50 pm
Tyben wrote:The Blazing Aura wrote:
Oh Cavalry Screen, just call it by that and I know that you mean.
wow that rhymed. Anyway, you can't use your cavalry to scour the entire Khagante looking for enemy armies, plus using that you often don't identify civilians who'd fight against you or any resistance movements like that. Like I said (and the point you're ignoring) You're pushing straight for the capital, what's to stop an army coming from the flank or behind you and destroying your supply routes, I mean if you're so familiar with Napoleon, you must know one of his greatest quotes -
And it can't march or fight if it doesn't have supplies that if you use the tactic you are using can be quite easily cut off.
The act of his civilians fighting against me is unlikely, his citizens are by majority of Russian heritage and I don't think they would like being led by people who aren't Russian. As I have said, if they fall on my flank or my rear then they put themselves in a bad position because I can simply turn my force to confront it because my formation of a modified phalanx is very mobile, allowing me increased speed and mobility, and then use the strategy of central position and flank the force and fall on its rear, cutting it off from retreat.
Obviously, you didn't realize one key thing about Napoleon though. His armies got majority of their food supplies that they didn't carry with them from foraging. That is why my armies are only 50,000 men, it allows the army to forage and maintain increased mobility.
EDIT: I wish Khaganate would've posted before he got off, I'm really antsy for a battle.
by Neros » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:00 pm
by Halleon » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:14 pm
Neros wrote:Dwartzur wrote:
...Or the OP can tell you "no".
...You do understand that rulers have extensively long styles, and there are many of which that are defunct or plain hilarious, right? A ruler can claim nearly anything he wishes, and that title is fine so long as he doesn't attempt enforce it.
by Neros » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:15 pm
Halleon wrote:Neros wrote:...You do understand that rulers have extensively long styles, and there are many of which that are defunct or plain hilarious, right? A ruler can claim nearly anything he wishes, and that title is fine so long as he doesn't attempt enforce it.
I'm to lazy for all that I just do the basic King, Emperor, President or whatever title my ruler has.
by Glasgia » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:41 pm
Zgraja wrote:Glasgia wrote:You're Scandinavia, right? Though you seem to be both IC and OOC friendly, I'd like to give you the offer of joining the war on my side. The Russians would no doubt also, if they could become even more powerful, seek to regain the lands they lost to you in the First Russian War. Strike now and you could take out their Baltic port, directing trade instead to your ports, as well as knocking down a competitor and securing your borders. It'd also make you friendly with Prussia, so your neighbours would either be easy to contain - a weakened Russia and the Hanseatic League - or friendly - Prussia.
What about Poland? I feel as though people are forgetting about Poland. Remember, the Poland in this RP is not the Poland of RL, seeing as how in RL they did not exist at this time.
And also don't forget, Sweden is part of the Northern Alliance along with Russia, France, and Poland.
I feel like I have maxed out the amount of times a person can put Poland in one post lol.
by Tyben » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:47 pm
Glasgia wrote:Zgraja wrote:
What about Poland? I feel as though people are forgetting about Poland. Remember, the Poland in this RP is not the Poland of RL, seeing as how in RL they did not exist at this time.
And also don't forget, Sweden is part of the Northern Alliance along with Russia, France, and Poland.
I feel like I have maxed out the amount of times a person can put Poland in one post lol.
I didn't forget Poland, you just didn't ask. My reasoning with you is much the same - You border both Prussia and me. Fighting Prussia would mean a huge land war, in which Russia's forces would be tied down elsewhere. You would lose. Meanwhile, the combined strength of you and Prussia could easily drive the Russians to Moscow. As I said you Scandinavia, your neighbours would all either be controllable - weakened Russia - or friendly - Prussia and me. If Sweden fights Russia, then you might as well too.
by Tyben » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:50 pm
Blassland wrote:I do not like the claims to rule, essentially, the entire middle east
I do know that Russia will never rule the land so it is okay
by Blassland » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:55 pm
Tyben wrote:We shall see...
by Glasgia » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:26 am
Tyben wrote:Glasgia wrote:
I didn't forget Poland, you just didn't ask. My reasoning with you is much the same - You border both Prussia and me. Fighting Prussia would mean a huge land war, in which Russia's forces would be tied down elsewhere. You would lose. Meanwhile, the combined strength of you and Prussia could easily drive the Russians to Moscow. As I said you Scandinavia, your neighbours would all either be controllable - weakened Russia - or friendly - Prussia and me. If Sweden fights Russia, then you might as well too.
Tsk...tsk... I can deploy one million troops, and that is just active, not including my reserves. I have plenty of troops and they are well-armed, I buy weaponry in bulk. So even when Russia is weakened, it can take on most nations and win, look at Russia vs. Finland and the 3rd Reich during World War 2. You assume that Russia is weak when in fact it is probably the strongest existing country at this point, if you want to be frank about it. Besides that fact, I could easily take St. Petersburg back if I got it taken from me, I can deploy MILLIONS of men without even being in war time.
Furthermore, if I have to I will be willing to deploy troops to protect my allies' borders, as is my duty as a member of the Northern Alliance.
by Tyben » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:54 am
Glasgia wrote:Tyben wrote:
Tsk...tsk... I can deploy one million troops, and that is just active, not including my reserves. I have plenty of troops and they are well-armed, I buy weaponry in bulk. So even when Russia is weakened, it can take on most nations and win, look at Russia vs. Finland and the 3rd Reich during World War 2. You assume that Russia is weak when in fact it is probably the strongest existing country at this point, if you want to be frank about it. Besides that fact, I could easily take St. Petersburg back if I got it taken from me, I can deploy MILLIONS of men without even being in war time.
Furthermore, if I have to I will be willing to deploy troops to protect my allies' borders, as is my duty as a member of the Northern Alliance.
I think I've adressed this before, you can't have a million troops and have them be the best in the world. So far, though it's up to Soodean, we've gone on a pretty basic algorithim: The more troops you have, the worse quality they are. Of course, as a western nation your troops will be pretty decent, but with a million men they'll be far behind the quality of Scandinavian, Polish or Qirim troops. Russia, a largely agricultural economy, can not afford an elite army of a million.
Furthermore, you cannot use the Second World War as an example. The Soviet Union owned a lot more territory and more people than you do, while fighting against less. Your Russia, not including the Baltic States, Ukraine or parts of Poland taken in '39, is fighting against Prussia, the closest we have to the third reich, as well as against me, the HSE, the UHS and Musoma. Alone we will at least be able to match you if not crush you, if Poland and Scandinavia decide to turn on you our victory is assured.
by Glasgia » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:26 am
Tyben wrote:Glasgia wrote:I think I've adressed this before, you can't have a million troops and have them be the best in the world. So far, though it's up to Soodean, we've gone on a pretty basic algorithim: The more troops you have, the worse quality they are. Of course, as a western nation your troops will be pretty decent, but with a million men they'll be far behind the quality of Scandinavian, Polish or Qirim troops. Russia, a largely agricultural economy, can not afford an elite army of a million.
Furthermore, you cannot use the Second World War as an example. The Soviet Union owned a lot more territory and more people than you do, while fighting against less. Your Russia, not including the Baltic States, Ukraine or parts of Poland taken in '39, is fighting against Prussia, the closest we have to the third reich, as well as against me, the HSE, the UHS and Musoma. Alone we will at least be able to match you if not crush you, if Poland and Scandinavia decide to turn on you our victory is assured.
I never claimed the best, I said one of the best, and it is possible if you put enough money into, something Russia can do considering it isn't lagging behind the other western nations, the whole reason Russia wasn't ahead in real life is because its industry was lagging which I fixed when I started my nation. An your algorithim is off, it's more troops, less mobility and less speed; the Romans fielded hundreds of thousands of troops in their day with top quality gear but they lost mobility when fighting in large numbers. Besides that fact, my troops were trained by the Swedish and well equipped, I buy heavily in weapons and gear for warfare, as I have stated from the beginning, my leader takes defense seriously.
Russia... Being an agricultural nation? I think your facts are off, Russia is one of the richest countries in the world natural resource wise, plus Russia actually industrialized at the speed of the rest of Europe at this time. Meaning, it has a widely diverse and well established economy, some might say it is almost even semi-autarky.
The Soviets oppressed their citizens and were ill-equipped, the people did not want to fight for their mother land in the western territories(East Europe). Besides, the brunt of the Soviet economy and population WAS IN RUSSIA, not in the newly acquired territories or puppet states. And you also forgot the fact that the 3rd Reich was going against an under industrialized Russia that had poor leadership(Stalin), besides if Zhukov was allowed to defend while the Russians were in East Europe, there would've never been Nazi troops in Russia, however Stalin did not believe it occurred so he ordered Zhukov to not attack the Nazi troops.
Furthermore, the Russian military took on a nation that was made up of almost the entirety of Europe and then Finland, at the same time. I think the Russians can take on your middle-eastern alliance quiet satisfactorily, and if I have to I can mobilize, something I haven't even done yet.
by Glasgia » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:35 am
Tyben wrote:Our minie-style rifle-muskets allow us to out range them, so have our infantry begin firing on them as soon as they get any closer than 1000 yards, open fire on them, remember to operate using fire by rank technique and do not push forward, let them come to us. If they want to truly stop us, they will advance to engage, if not, then we can just move around them and keep moving.
by Tyben » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:36 am
by Blassland » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:06 am
Tyben wrote:I'm going to ignore you, as obviously you tend to just claim my answer irrelevant and just try to make yourself seem more powerful, just like your other allies. Your points are all irrelevant, because the fact remains I will obliterate you, and there is really nothing you can say to prevent it from happening.
Minie-style rifles of the era were capable of firing a projectile 2,000 yards, I don't think firing one 1000 yards means it will be as inaccurate, considering it is half its range. Plus, I never said I converted it to a carbine, I said I had horse carbiners, then i went on to talk about the infantry(who use minie-style rifles). Also, since when did the Dreyse rifle become capable of firing a round 650 yards accurately? I didn't think so, that is its max range.
by Glasgia » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:30 am
Tyben wrote:I'm going to ignore you, as obviously you tend to just claim my answer irrelevant and just try to make yourself seem more powerful, just like your other allies. Your points are all irrelevant, because the fact remains I will obliterate you, and there is really nothing you can say to prevent it from happening.
Minie-style rifles of the era were capable of firing a projectile 2,000 yards, I don't think firing one 1000 yards means it will be as inaccurate, considering it is half its range. Plus, I never said I converted it to a carbine, I said I had horse carbiners, then i went on to talk about the infantry(who use minie-style rifles). Also, since when did the Dreyse rifle become capable of firing a round 650 yards accurately? I didn't think so, that is its max range.
by The Blazing Aura » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:57 am
by United Federation of the World » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:57 am
by The Soodean Imperium » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:13 am
by Glasgia » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:27 am
The Soodean Imperium wrote:Again, time for me to put a cap on the argument I missed while I was offline:
1) Russian Industrialization: this may be Alt-History, but remember that Alt-History only lets you change things to a certain extent. While Russia doesn't have to stick perfectly to RL underdevelopment, they still have to account for the fact that with so much of the population as rural serfs, industrialization would be slow and difficult. A major effort to take people out of the farms and put them into the factories would speed this up, but it would also result in population loss due to famine.
2) Quality and Quantity: As Tyben pointed out, quality and quantity aren't necessarily mutually exclusive; you can have a large, well-trained, well-equipped army. However, the larger and better-trained your army is, the more it will cost to feed, clothe, arm, and pay those soldiers. Thus, if you keep 4% of the population in constant military training, your rate of modernization and industrialization will suffer. Extensive colonization of mining areas can boost quality (via pay and equipment), and extensive colonization of farming areas can boost quantity (via population), but both of these options will strain your supply lines.
3) Weaponry: Remember that there is a difference between range and effective range. The Minie could easily kill an enemy soldier at 1,000 meters and then pass through to kill the man behind him, but only a very well-trained marksman could achieve a shot like that (which goes back to the quantity/quality dilemma). Also, while this is Alt-History, I'd like to encourage everyone to not use weapons until the year they first entered service IRL. It may seem a little harsh, but it'll prevent godmodders from spamming Gatling guns in the early 1850s.
4) Example: Prussia currently fields an army of 1.2 million (2.4% of the population). Most of these soldiers are given only moderate levels of training, and instead rely on their unique Dreyse needle guns to achieve a vastly superior, but less accurate, rate of fire. Though expensive, this army is funded and supplied by ore and grain from colonies and trading partners, making it well-equipped for war in Europe but vulnerable to blockades of the supply lines. (Note that this army has both advantages and weaknesses, and is generally consistent with what Prussia was able to field in real life).
by United Federation of the World » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:29 am
The Soodean Imperium wrote:Again, time for me to put a cap on the argument I missed while I was offline:
1) Russian Industrialization: this may be Alt-History, but remember that Alt-History only lets you change things to a certain extent. While Russia doesn't have to stick perfectly to RL underdevelopment, they still have to account for the fact that with so much of the population as rural serfs, industrialization would be slow and difficult. A major effort to take people out of the farms and put them into the factories would speed this up, but it would also result in population loss due to famine.
2) Quality and Quantity: As Tyben pointed out, quality and quantity aren't necessarily mutually exclusive; you can have a large, well-trained, well-equipped army. However, the larger and better-trained your army is, the more it will cost to feed, clothe, arm, and pay those soldiers. Thus, if you keep 4% of the population in constant military training, your rate of modernization and industrialization will suffer. Extensive colonization of mining areas can boost quality (via pay and equipment), and extensive colonization of farming areas can boost quantity (via population), but both of these options will strain your supply lines.
3) Weaponry: Remember that there is a difference between range and effective range. The Minie could easily kill an enemy soldier at 1,000 meters and then pass through to kill the man behind him, but only a very well-trained marksman could achieve a shot like that (which goes back to the quantity/quality dilemma). Also, while this is Alt-History, I'd like to encourage everyone to not use weapons until the year they first entered service IRL. It may seem a little harsh, but it'll prevent godmodders from spamming Gatling guns in the early 1850s.
4) Example: Prussia currently fields an army of 1.2 million (2.4% of the population). Most of these soldiers are given only moderate levels of training, and instead rely on their unique Dreyse needle guns to achieve a vastly superior, but less accurate, rate of fire. Though expensive, this army is funded and supplied by ore and grain from colonies and trading partners, making it well-equipped for war in Europe but vulnerable to blockades of the supply lines. (Note that this army has both advantages and weaknesses, and is generally consistent with what Prussia was able to field in real life).
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