Game of Thrones: Win or Die [Sign-up, OOC]

[Prince-Bishopric Of Liege]

Can and cannot is a subjective term in this case. It is unusual, that is certain, but it can be done. It depends on the amount of honour attached to the Lord in question (which is not overtly much in my case ). What doesn't mean that there won't be discontent at hime. One can always bow before a more powerful lord, it has been done countless times in history. Besides, House Baratheon is far less powerful than House Tyrell shall ever be.

A lord can bow before a king, but I dunno if a lord can bow before a lord... besides, it's not meant to last. The Iron Throne can't let the Tyrells get away with enough power to rise up at any moment...

Just sayin'

That is up for the consideration of the Iron Throne. It is known that the Kingmaker can be more powerful than the king himself. And surely a Lord can bow before another. It is clearly stated in the books that both House Tyrell and House Baratheon and House Hightower duly surrendered to Aeron Targaryen when he conquered Westeros.

[Of the Quendi]

Can and cannot is a subjective term in this case. It is unusual, that is certain, but it can be done. It depends on the amount of honour attached to the Lord in question (which is not overtly much in my case ). What doesn't mean that there won't be discontent at hime. One can always bow before a more powerful lord, it has been done countless times in history. Besides, House Baratheon is far less powerful than House Tyrell shall ever be.

A lord can bow before a king, but I dunno if a lord can bow before a lord... besides, it's not meant to last. The Iron Throne can't let the Tyrells get away with enough power to rise up at any moment...

Just sayin'

Isn't that more or less what House Arryn is trying to do with House Stark? at least House Baratheon is considerably weaker than House Tyrell.

[Lunas Legion]

A lord can bow before a king, but I dunno if a lord can bow before a lord... besides, it's not meant to last. The Iron Throne can't let the Tyrells get away with enough power to rise up at any moment...

Just sayin'

That is up for the consideration of the Iron Throne. It is known that the Kingmaker can be more powerful than the king himself. And surely a Lord can bow before another. It is clearly stated in the books that both House Tyrell and House Baratheon and House Hightower duly surrendered to Aeron Targaryen when he conquered Westeros.

The Tyrells only surrendered after House Gardener was roasted on the Field of Fire alongside the combined armies of the Rock and Reach.

[Sealord Laerio Grynsell]

A lord can bow before a king, but I dunno if a lord can bow before a lord... besides, it's not meant to last. The Iron Throne can't let the Tyrells get away with enough power to rise up at any moment...

Just sayin'

That is up for the consideration of the Iron Throne. It is known that the Kingmaker can be more powerful than the king himself. And surely a Lord can bow before another. It is clearly stated in the books that both House Tyrell and House Baratheon and House Hightower duly surrendered to Aeron Targaryen when he conquered Westeros.

Yes, but Aegon actually enforced a lower rank on them... he created lord paramouncies, making them lords from kings.

And I felt like the Arryn player wants the Northern player wants to be king in the north, then it would be okay.

It's not that important, but not entirely correct .


For example, when William the Conqueror became a king, his ducal lands in France could no longer be held by France. And so, Normandy became a part of England.

[Cheten]

If a lord paramount swore fealty to a lord paramount wouldn't he no longer be a lord paramount because isn't it stated they bow to no one but the king The Tyrells would theoretically be the new rulers of the Stormlands and the Baratheons would be Lords under the Tyrells not Lord paramounts

[Prince-Bishopric Of Liege]

That is up for the consideration of the Iron Throne. It is known that the Kingmaker can be more powerful than the king himself. And surely a Lord can bow before another. It is clearly stated in the books that both House Tyrell and House Baratheon and House Hightower duly surrendered to Aeron Targaryen when he conquered Westeros.

Yes, but Aegon actually enforced a lower rank on them... he created lord paramouncies, making them lords from kings.

And I felt like the Arryn player wants the Northern player wants to be king in the north, then it would be okay.

It's not that important, but not entirely correct .


For example, when William the Conqueror became a king, his ducal lands in France could no longer be held by France. And so, Normandy became a part of England.

William never was exactly a BFF from the King of French. Or take the case with the Duchy of Burgundy who were so king to elevate themselves into kingship. As stated in the story itself, Robert Barathen himself had but a vague claim to the Throne. He wasn't even the strongest lord, but he became King only because Lord Tywin and Lord Mace bowed before him. They could both have destroyed the King in a second and the Lannisters became the thriving force during Robert's reign...

[Of the Quendi]

For example, when William the Conqueror became a king, his ducal lands in France could no longer be held by France. And so, Normandy became a part of England.

Not at all. The King of France was always the liege lord of the King of England in the laters capacity as Duke of Normandy. Normandy was never acknowledged as a part of England it was merely a french province owned by a man who happened to be King of England as well.

If a lord paramount swore fealty to a lord paramount wouldn't he no longer be a lord paramount because isn't it stated they bow to no one but the king The Tyrells would theoretically be the new rulers of the Stormlands and the Baratheons would be Lords under the Tyrells not Lord paramounts

That is probably right. But if Houses Tyrell and Baratheon decide to ignore that rule who would dare remind them? In the end it all comes down to what people has the power to enforce.

[Prince-Bishopric Of Liege]

If a lord paramount swore fealty to a lord paramount wouldn't he no longer be a lord paramount because isn't it stated they bow to no one but the king The Tyrells would theoretically be the new rulers of the Stormlands and the Baratheons would be Lords under the Tyrells not Lord paramounts

There are no lord paramounts in the Storm Land. The only titular lord paramount is that of the Riverlands. All the other Great Houses just style themselves Lord of (Keep) and then throw in some fancy titles (eg. High Marshal of the Reach, Protector of the Vale,..). A discussion about titles and privileges in wartime is essentially moot. The fact that Arys was a King didn't stop Jaime Lannister's sword, did it? A title is but as powerful as the power of those who hold it. Lord Baelish is in essence Lord Paramount of the Riverlands and Lord Protector of the Vale, making him a High Lord twice over, but he has no power in the Riverlands and only marginal personal power in the Vale.

[Cheten]

Yes, but Aegon actually enforced a lower rank on them... he created lord paramouncies, making them lords from kings.

And I felt like the Arryn player wants the Northern player wants to be king in the north, then it would be okay.

It's not that important, but not entirely correct .


For example, when William the Conqueror became a king, his ducal lands in France could no longer be held by France. And so, Normandy became a part of England.

William never was exactly a BFF from the King of French. Or take the case with the Duchy of Burgundy who were so king to elevate themselves into kingship. As stated in the story itself, Robert Barathen himself had but a vague claim to the Throne. He wasn't even the strongest lord, but he became King only because Lord Tywin and Lord Mace bowed before him. They could both have destroyed the King in a second and the Lannisters became the thriving force during Robert's reign...

They bowed before Robert as king... The Lannisters after they had seize kings landing and killed the old King and the Tyrells after King Robert moved from Kings Landing to relieve Storm's End. Lord Arryn and Lord Eddard were allies of Robert during the rebellion and didn't bow before him until he became king.

If a lord paramount swore fealty to a lord paramount wouldn't he no longer be a lord paramount because isn't it stated they bow to no one but the king The Tyrells would theoretically be the new rulers of the Stormlands and the Baratheons would be Lords under the Tyrells not Lord paramounts

There are no lord paramounts in the Storm Land. The only titular lord paramount is that of the Riverlands. All the other Great Houses just style themselves Lord of (Keep) and then throw in some fancy titles (eg. High Marshal of the Reach, Protector of the Vale,..). A discussion about titles and privileges in wartime is essentially moot. The fact that Arys was a King didn't stop Jaime Lannister's sword, did it? A title is but as powerful as the power of those who hold it. Lord Baelish is in essence Lord Paramount of the Riverlands and Lord Protector of the Vale, making him a High Lord twice over, but he has no power in the Riverlands and only marginal personal power in the Vale.

A Lord Paramount is both an official title and a non-official ranking. The warden of the West is the lord paramount of the Westerlands because all lord paramount means is Supreme Lord

[Prince-Bishopric Of Liege]

For example, when William the Conqueror became a king, his ducal lands in France could no longer be held by France. And so, Normandy became a part of England.

Not at all. The King of France was always the liege lord of the King of England in the laters capacity as Duke of Normandy. Normandy was never acknowledged as a part of England it was merely a french province owned by a man who happened to be King of England as well.

If a lord paramount swore fealty to a lord paramount wouldn't he no longer be a lord paramount because isn't it stated they bow to no one but the king The Tyrells would theoretically be the new rulers of the Stormlands and the Baratheons would be Lords under the Tyrells not Lord paramounts

That is probably right. But if Houses Tyrell and Baratheon decide to ignore that rule who would dare remind them? In the end it all comes down to what people has the power to enforce.

My point exactly. After all has Braavos recently not pacified some of the other Free Cities, without actually having a real claim to them. As stated above, in the end its all about the power and as stated by Varys, power lies where people believe it does.

[Ulster]

So House Baratheon completely knuckles under to a non-king? Hah. And yet sad to see the fiery Baratheons reduced to lickspittles.

[Lunas Legion]

So House Baratheon completely knuckles under to a non-king? Hah. And yet sad to see the fiery Baratheons reduced to lickspittles.

You still need to save the Watch from the Wilding Horde.

[Prince-Bishopric Of Liege]

So House Baratheon completely knuckles under to a non-king? Hah. And yet sad to see the fiery Baratheons reduced to lickspittles.

Meh. I like being the subordinate in a relationship.
Hold that for a second. Did that sound a bit weird?

[Lunas Legion]

So House Baratheon completely knuckles under to a non-king? Hah. And yet sad to see the fiery Baratheons reduced to lickspittles.

Meh. I like being the subordinate in a relationship.
Hold that for a second. Did that sound a bit weird?

Yes.

[Ulster]

You still need to save the Watch from the Wilding Horde.

True enough. I have some pre-made posts to toss up and we'll get to saving the Realm.

Meh. I like being the subordinate in a relationship.
Hold that for a second. Did that sound a bit weird?

Just sad for the stag.

[Prince-Bishopric Of Liege]

You still need to save the Watch from the Wilding Horde.

True enough. I have some pre-made posts to toss up and we'll get to saving the Realm.

Meh. I like being the subordinate in a relationship.
Hold that for a second. Did that sound a bit weird?

Just sad for the stag.

A mere stag needs to beware for its hunters, sir. And I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of House Stark in the IC.

[Ulster]

Have the Lannisters formally claimed the throne? Or the Martells?

[Prince-Bishopric Of Liege]

Have the Lannisters formally claimed the throne? Or the Martells?

Lannister has, I think. Quentyn Martell has or is about to do so, but is not supported by House Martell in its entirety. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Ulster]

Events in the capital seem to be a bit of a jumble, so I'm curious if anything but the news of the royal family's death has gotten out.

[Prince-Bishopric Of Liege]

Events in the capital seem to be a bit of a jumble, so I'm curious if anything but the news of the royal family's death has gotten out.

Lannister ordered to slaughter all the ravens (being the Hand of the King he can do cool stuff like that) but it is stated in the opening post that some ravens are already sent and some people has openly announced the King's death... Whether the news reaches the North is your own choice I think, but rumours like that tend to spread fast.

[Of the Quendi]

House Lannister is the only ones who has claimed the throne and been very vocal and active about it.

House Martell in its entirty support Prince Quentyn but the spears of Dorne stays put until Prince Quentyn can find Allies, he is currently wooing Baratheon and Tyrell.

Message of the death of the royal family is the only thing that has gotten out and in any case the Capital is still on day two of the RP (I will forcibly move that a bit ahead in time at some point so that they aren't caught in a time loop far behind everything else)

[Ulster]

Thanks Quendi. I'm just working on a post right now and wanted to make sure I didn't miss if the Lannisters have called for oaths of fealty or something.

[Ceannairceach]

House Lannister is the only ones who has claimed the throne and been very vocal and active about it.

House Martell in its entirty support Prince Quentyn but the spears of Dorne stays put until Prince Quentyn can find Allies, he is currently wooing Baratheon and Tyrell.

Message of the death of the royal family is the only thing that has gotten out and in any case the Capital is still on day two of the RP (I will forcibly move that a bit ahead in time at some point so that they aren't caught in a time loop far behind everything else)

For total honesty, Raddon will probably use the attempted murder of Daemin as a reason to go to war, largely against the Lannisters. I'm still unsure if they're going to outright declare independence or fealty as of yet, or if they're just going to play it by ear, but we'll see.

[Sealord Laerio Grynsell]

Not at all. The King of France was always the liege lord of the King of England in the laters capacity as Duke of Normandy. Normandy was never acknowledged as a part of England it was merely a french province owned by a man who happened to be King of England as well.


That is probably right. But if Houses Tyrell and Baratheon decide to ignore that rule who would dare remind them? In the end it all comes down to what people has the power to enforce.

My point exactly. After all has Braavos recently not pacified some of the other Free Cities, without actually having a real claim to them. As stated above, in the end its all about the power and as stated by Varys, power lies where people believe it does.

Oops. That's kinda true. But... if you noticed, I'm also making people lords, forcing inferior titles on the Cities.

[Prince-Bishopric Of Liege]

My point exactly. After all has Braavos recently not pacified some of the other Free Cities, without actually having a real claim to them. As stated above, in the end its all about the power and as stated by Varys, power lies where people believe it does.

Oops. That's kinda true. But... if you noticed, I'm also making people lords, forcing inferior titles on the Cities.

I noticed as I have a penchant for all titles (I am so going to move to England one day and marry into the aristocracy ).