Game of Thrones: Win or Die [Sign-up, OOC]

[Prince-Bishopric Of Liege]

80k to be fair I think. That would take House Lannister and one other Great House to match it. Besides, I highly doubt it the entire Redwyne fleet would leave for the Free Cities, leaving the Reach utterly undefended. The Royal Fleet and The Iron fleet both match whatever the Arbor can muster in size. Any debate on numbers is in the essence quite useless, provided that the relative balance of power is upheld. RP'ing isn't about winning.

That all lends credence to my observation about Braavos, Liege. If the largest land power takes two houses to match it, why nerf Braavos when it does the same? The balance of power in Essos would roughly be the same as in Westeros, i.e. two or three Free Cities to match Braavos. Like you say, RP'ing isn't about winning, so balancing isn't necessary.

Balancing, in my opinion is necessary to reduce the chance of overpowered godmodding. Anyway, I leave this to the Sealord himself.

[Ceannairceach]

80k to be fair I think. That would take House Lannister and one other Great House to match it. Besides, I highly doubt it the entire Redwyne fleet would leave for the Free Cities, leaving the Reach utterly undefended. The Royal Fleet and The Iron fleet both match whatever the Arbor can muster in size. Any debate on numbers is in the essence quite useless, provided that the relative balance of power is upheld. RP'ing isn't about winning.

That all lends credence to my observation about Braavos, Liege. If the largest land power takes two houses to match it, why nerf Braavos when it does the same? The balance of power in Essos would roughly be the same as in Westeros, i.e. two or three Free Cities to match Braavos. Like you say, RP'ing isn't about winning, so balancing isn't necessary.

I think the point about Braavos not being likely to sail out and conquer the world is fair here; They would need ships to guard their harbor and immediate trade lanes, but not much else. Their power rests in their domination of the banking system and the power of their trading organizations, with the added benefit of this lending to a very strong, if not the largest, naval force.

[Ulster]

Balancing, in my opinion is necessary to reduce the chance of overpowered godmodding. Anyway, I leave this to the Sealord himself.

You didn't answer my question. And it would seem that you can either be worried about balancing or you can say it isn't about winning, not both.

But Ceannairceach does hit the nail on the head:

Assuming we play logistics fairly at all, such an army would cripple itself merely by moving, so it sort of balances out by us knowing that anyone who summons such a force will have to use it in a few months or risk them all dying of starvation.

[Prince-Bishopric Of Liege]

Balancing, in my opinion is necessary to reduce the chance of overpowered godmodding. Anyway, I leave this to the Sealord himself.

You didn't answer my question. And it would seem that you can either be worried about balancing or you can say it isn't about winning, not both.

But Ceannairceach does hit the nail on the head:

Assuming we play logistics fairly at all, such an army would cripple itself merely by moving, so it sort of balances out by us knowing that anyone who summons such a force will have to use it in a few months or risk them all dying of starvation.

I fully agree with Ceannairceach, but pray which question?

[Ulster]

I think the point about Braavos not being likely to sail out and conquer the world is fair here; They would need ships to guard their harbor and immediate trade lanes, but not much else. Their power rests in their domination of the banking system and the power of their trading organizations, with the added benefit of this lending to a very strong, if not the largest, naval force.

IIRC they also regularly fight with several of the Free Cities, and enforce treaties terms on others. So they would need ships for these extracurricular activities.

If we have the Grand Council at Harrenhal, will House Greyjoy not participate? I had hoped for an opportunity for our characters to meet.

[Sealord Laerio Grynsell]

Guys, 300 war galleys is enough. As long as I'm just the biggest in numbers, how big doesn't matter.

But... I am slightly butthurt about Of The Quendi saying that Pentos will betray me IC'ly without even asking me first.

[Ceannairceach]

I think the point about Braavos not being likely to sail out and conquer the world is fair here; They would need ships to guard their harbor and immediate trade lanes, but not much else. Their power rests in their domination of the banking system and the power of their trading organizations, with the added benefit of this lending to a very strong, if not the largest, naval force.

IIRC they also regularly fight with several of the Free Cities, and enforce treaties terms on others. So they would need ships for these extracurricular activities.

If we have the Grand Council at Harrenhal, will House Greyjoy not participate? I had hoped for an opportunity for our characters to meet.

Yes, but that fits along the lines with the best ships, but not the most. Braavos doesn't need the biggest fleet to enforce its rule; It simply buys the best ships, and hires sellsails to offer support.

Raddon will probably not make any special effort to attend, fearing the ghosts of Harrenhal and wanting to spurn any Lannister offer, but Mandrick will be convinced by the Daughters to attend, along with one of them. I'm hoping to knock some Greyjoy off soon, to advance Sorrick's plot.

[Ceannairceach]

Guys, 300 war galleys is enough. As long as I'm just the biggest in numbers, how big doesn't matter.

But... I am slightly butthurt about Of The Quendi saying that Pentos will betray me IC'ly without even asking me first.

To be fair, having Pentos be conquered and the Golden Company swear fealty without the OP clearing it beforehand was probably leaving him a bit butthurt as well.

[Ulster]

Honestly all the campaigning in Essos leaves me uncomfortable, since we don't really know their strengths aside from Braavos and Volantis.

Ceannairceach, I don't think I noticed it in your posts, so I'd like to ask what House Greyjoy's stance toward Stark is. At first glance we don't seem to have the same shadow cast over us by Balon's vendetta.

[Ceannairceach]

Honestly all the campaigning in Essos leaves me uncomfortable, since we don't really know their strengths aside from Braavos and Volantis.

Ceannairceach, I don't think I noticed it in your posts, so I'd like to ask what House Greyjoy's stance toward Stark is. At first glance we don't seem to have the same shadow cast over us by Balon's vendetta.

Not really, no. The current Greyjoy lord didn't rebel against the Iron Throne, so any desire to raid the western coasts lies solely with his adherence to the Old Ways. In many respects the Greyjoy's simply acknowledge the Stark and Northern existence, not quite desiring their lands, being cold and barren, but not desiring their friendship either. If anything, the Greyjoys see them as another green lander house that are a bit harder than most, but their lands are only fit to be practice runs for real raiding.

[Ulster]

Yeah, the Stony Shore is rather bleak and full of pinecones.
While culturally different, the Northmen and Ironmen have similar roots to the First Men. They follow the old way of things and live hard lives. I feel, OOC, a sort of connection.
Since raiding usually involves taking lighter, valuable things not nailed down, I imagine some form of commerce could be possible. How might the Lord of Pyke feel about some sort of working relationship? Perhaps a marriage of a Greyjoy daughter to a Stark?

[Ceannairceach]

Yeah, the Stony Shore is rather bleak and full of pinecones.
While culturally different, the Northmen and Ironmen have similar roots to the First Men. They follow the old way of things and live hard lives. I feel, OOC, a sort of connection.
Since raiding usually involves taking lighter, valuable things not nailed down, I imagine some form of commerce could be possible. How might the Lord of Pyke feel about some sort of working relationship? Perhaps a marriage of a Greyjoy daughter to a Stark?

Heh, depending on the daughter I send they'd have to prove themselves capable of handling her, but Raddon wouldn't necessarily be apposed to it; He'd rather she marry Ironborn, of course, being a stickler for the Old Ways, but as you said, it was the Andals who converted in the Iron Islands, not the other way around, making them closer to the First Men than the southrons. So yeah, I could see a marriage happening. The son would just have to prove himself to the daughter, since Raddon couldn't honestly give a shit about what his kids do. Although knowing the Daughters, they'd probably want to give Beth to Sorrick in exchange.

[Of the Quendi]

Guys, 300 war galleys is enough. As long as I'm just the biggest in numbers, how big doesn't matter.

But... I am slightly butthurt about Of The Quendi saying that Pentos will betray me IC'ly without even asking me first.

To be fair, having Pentos be conquered and the Golden Company swear fealty without the OP clearing it beforehand was probably leaving him a bit butthurt as well.

Not quite the word I would have used but that is the gist of it.

Honestly all the campaigning in Essos leaves me uncomfortable, since we don't really know their strengths aside from Braavos and Volantis.

That is part of the reason why I intervene in Essos. With Myr, Lys and Tyrosh united in a defensive pact and supported by a powerful Westerosi actor the Essos expansionists will need look more to the west rather than rework the Free Cities.

[Sealord Laerio Grynsell]

Guys, 300 war galleys is enough. As long as I'm just the biggest in numbers, how big doesn't matter.

But... I am slightly butthurt about Of The Quendi saying that Pentos will betray me IC'ly without even asking me first.

To be fair, having Pentos be conquered and the Golden Company swear fealty without the OP clearing it beforehand was probably leaving him a bit butthurt as well.

Yes, but I promised to slow down, and I did. Nothing will happen until Volantis comes up with a deal.

Is Volantis accepted, anyways?

[Prince-Bishopric Of Liege]

Well, after the Lannister post it seems that the great council plans are down the drain...

[Evraim]

Well, after the Lannister post it seems that the great council plans are down the drain...

Not necessarily. It means that those who partake in the Great Council will need to depose the usurper in King's Landing, but that may be arranged easily enough, especially if Bloody Bart continues to alienate the Great Houses. He's managed to bring down the wrath of House Greyjoy on the West, has refused the proposal made by the Art to appoint a legitimate heir to the Iron Throne, and will almost without a doubt engage in hostilities with House Martell - unless they renege on their claim. That's three potential enemies, or one per page. If he loses the minor Houses in the Crownlands or the Tyrells, I would say his hold on power would be quite tenuous. House Lannister needs allies.

[Sealord Laerio Grynsell]

I would like to point out Aerio is in no position to accept such an ultimatum: that's for Laerio to decide.

[Sealord Laerio Grynsell]

To be fair, having Pentos be conquered and the Golden Company swear fealty without the OP clearing it beforehand was probably leaving him a bit butthurt as well.

Not quite the word I would have used but that is the gist of it.

Honestly all the campaigning in Essos leaves me uncomfortable, since we don't really know their strengths aside from Braavos and Volantis.

That is part of the reason why I intervene in Essos. With Myr, Lys and Tyrosh united in a defensive pact and supported by a powerful Westerosi actor the Essos expansionists will need look more to the west rather than rework the Free Cities.

The look to the west part is my invasion of Dorne for the Lannisters.

[Ulster]

@Quendi: Good point with Essos. I withdraw my concerns.

@Evraim and Liege: Interesting turn for the Lion to take. The Starks are fighting for the Realm this instant, so a pretender more concerned with power than what's best is not a candidate to be followed.

[Sealord Laerio Grynsell]

Well, after the Lannister post it seems that the great council plans are down the drain...

Not necessarily. It means that those who partake in the Great Council will need to depose the usurper in King's Landing, but that may be arranged easily enough, especially if Bloody Bart continues to alienate the Great Houses. He's managed to bring down the wrath of House Greyjoy on the West, has refused the proposal made by the Art to appoint a legitimate heir to the Iron Throne, and will almost without a doubt engage in hostilities with House Martell - unless they renege on their claim. That's three potential enemies, or one per page. If he loses the minor Houses in the Crownlands or the Tyrells, I would say his hold on power would be quite tenuous. House Lannister needs allies.

Like me.

[Of the Quendi]

Is Volantis accepted, anyways?

Yes.

Well, after the Lannister post it seems that the great council plans are down the drain...

Lets see. If Grand Maester Gerold live to get a letter out to Oldtown or Highgarden the Reach will insist and with House Stark already advocating a council the idea may have some traction in the Riverlands.

The look to the west part is my invasion of Dorne for the Lannisters.

Good.

Not necessarily. It means that those who partake in the Great Council will need to depose the usurper in King's Landing, but that may be arranged easily enough, especially if Bloody Bart continues to alienate the Great Houses. He's managed to bring down the wrath of House Greyjoy on the West, has refused the proposal made by the Art to appoint a legitimate heir to the Iron Throne, and will almost without a doubt engage in hostilities with House Martell - unless they renege on their claim. That's three potential enemies, or one per page. If he loses the minor Houses in the Crownlands or the Tyrells, I would say his hold on power would be quite tenuous. House Lannister needs allies.

"Bloody Bart" does seem to have some difficulties with making allies. Terror tactics work better on weak types like the Grand Maester than on high lords. But with House Arryn and Braavos on his side the Lannister cause doesn't seem too tenuous. So far they have effortlessly managed to take control of the capital and at least nominally rule the Seven Kingdoms.

But I would like to know if people are more clear on where they stand in the Martell vs. Lannister fight?

[Sealord Laerio Grynsell]

Is Volantis accepted, anyways?

Yes.

Well, after the Lannister post it seems that the great council plans are down the drain...

Lets see. If Grand Maester Gerold live to get a letter out to Oldtown or Highgarden the Reach will insist and with House Stark already advocating a council the idea may have some traction in the Riverlands.

The look to the west part is my invasion of Dorne for the Lannisters.

Good.

Not necessarily. It means that those who partake in the Great Council will need to depose the usurper in King's Landing, but that may be arranged easily enough, especially if Bloody Bart continues to alienate the Great Houses. He's managed to bring down the wrath of House Greyjoy on the West, has refused the proposal made by the Art to appoint a legitimate heir to the Iron Throne, and will almost without a doubt engage in hostilities with House Martell - unless they renege on their claim. That's three potential enemies, or one per page. If he loses the minor Houses in the Crownlands or the Tyrells, I would say his hold on power would be quite tenuous. House Lannister needs allies.

"Bloody Bart" does seem to have some difficulties with making allies. Terror tactics work better on weak types like the Grand Maester than on high lords. But with House Arryn and Braavos on his side the Lannister cause doesn't seem too tenuous. So far they have effortlessly managed to take control of the capital and at least nominally rule the Seven Kingdoms.

But I would like to know if people are more clear on where they stand in the Martell vs. Lannister fight?

Laerio likes the Lannisters' offer, not his tone. He'll probably have Tyroshs' port blockaded so the island city state keeps starving, and then do his ruthless thing in Dorne.

I sense naval tussles


Is Arryn on his side?

[Of the Quendi]

Laerio likes the Lannisters' offer, not his tone. He'll probably have Tyroshs' port blockaded so the island city state keeps starving, and then do his ruthless thing in Dorne.

I sense naval tussles


Is Arryn on his side?

Bartholomew Lannister doesn't seem the greatest diplomat. Then again a Lion doesn't really need to sweet-talk the lambs.

As for Tyrosh an attack on the city will force House Redwyne to commit to support a Myr-Tyrosh-Lys alliance against Braavos with funding or direct military assistance or both.

And yes it is my understanding that House Arryn plans to ally with House Lannister.

[Ulster]

Has House Martell formally claimed the throne?

I feel like we haven't seen anything on the level of Stannis' letter to the Realm revealing the Lannister incest and claiming his throne. So far all I have now is the Hand rather limply announcing there is a new king with no details or right to claim.

[Sealord Laerio Grynsell]

Laerio likes the Lannisters' offer, not his tone. He'll probably have Tyroshs' port blockaded so the island city state keeps starving, and then do his ruthless thing in Dorne.

I sense naval tussles


Is Arryn on his side?

Bartholomew Lannister doesn't seem the greatest diplomat. Then again a Lion doesn't really need to sweet-talk the lambs.

As for Tyrosh an attack on the city will force House Redwyne to commit to support a Myr-Tyrosh-Lys alliance against Braavos with funding or direct military assistance or both.

And yes it is my understanding that House Arryn plans to ally with House Lannister.

Problem is, Laerio is not a lamb. And threatening to 'hang his brother by his cock' doesn't make him very happy when he'll hear about it.

And uhm... you must've missed the post. Tyrosh is under siege. Feel free to send me an ultimatum.