Roleplay of the World 1252 (OOC, Open)

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

lo inesea

[The Holy Dominion of Inesea]

On a less(or more?) exasperated note, ICD, Val, Elerian, drop it.

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

On a less(or more?) exasperated note, ICD, Val, Elerian, drop it.

Okay....Time to Break through that Blockade easily

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

quick someone think of a cool Latin or Greek name for an Admiral must be three words

[The Holy Dominion of Inesea]

Scipio Africanus Mares

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

Scipio Africanus Mares

Scipio Sea of Africa lol sure
I was thinking Odysseus

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

Time to strike Inesea

[Inoroth]

You know instead of whining you should shut up and do something about it. I mean seriously you are just stalling. You keep talking big but you have nothing to back that talk up with.

40,000 Bavarian men at arms says differently
25,000 Pisans says differently
15,000 Russians Says Differently
30,000 Carthaginian Legionaries say differently
50,000 Carthaginian Men at arms say differently
a contingent of knights from the Duchy of Berg say differently
the Knights of saint John and Templars say differently

Sounds so boss, and I'm on that list

400,000 Almohades, 120,000 Ayyubids, and 100,000 Ethiopians say shut up and fight.

I agree even if you have well trained men you will be killed by our numbers. We have almost a 6 to one ratio on you.

But walls dude, walls. Even if you can get a breech with your siege weapons, the hole not going to be very big (that, or your guys are going to all be grey beards by the time the assault is launched), and then it comes down to assailing the breech, where the most quality troops the defenders can muster will be standing (or more probably kneeling to avoid the flying projectiles from your siege weapons). Both of their flanks will be protected, and a wall of shields nettled with spearpoints will be facing outwards at your forces, with archers standing atop both walls, waiting to pour bolts of death down on any who dare approach. In that sort of battle, numbers are inconsequential -- it's the quality of the individual soldiers that makes the difference. Now, no offense to those who love muslim armies, but european heavy troops tended to be more... "resilient" then their muslim counter-parts (by that, I mean that battle-axes and full chain-mail tend to beat out scimitars and turbans in one on one combat). Now, muslims traditionally were able to raise far larger armies and they were clothed appropriately for the North-African clime, so I am by no means saying that the european armies are universally better at everything, not by a long shot... only that in the situation of a wall breech assault, european heavy infantry are at an advantage.

1:3 is the usual ratio of Attackers to Defenders dying in medieval sieges.

1:6 because you have loads of inexperienced troops.

What's the death ratio when attacking a wall -- I imagine it's probably higher than 1:6 ?

[Mauretania Tingitana]

40,000 Bavarian men at arms says differently
25,000 Pisans says differently
15,000 Russians Says Differently
30,000 Carthaginian Legionaries say differently
50,000 Carthaginian Men at arms say differently
a contingent of knights from the Duchy of Berg say differently
the Knights of saint John and Templars say differently

Sounds so boss, and I'm on that list

I agree even if you have well trained men you will be killed by our numbers. We have almost a 6 to one ratio on you.

But walls dude, walls. Even if you can get a breech with your siege weapons, the hole not going to be very big (that, or your guys are going to all be grey beards by the time the assault is launched), and then it comes down to assailing the breech, where the most quality troops the defenders can muster will be standing (or more probably kneeling to avoid the flying projectiles from your siege weapons). Both of their flanks will be protected, and a wall of shields nettled with spearpoints will be facing outwards at your forces, with archers standing atop both walls, waiting to pour bolts of death down on any who dare approach. In that sort of battle, numbers are inconsequential -- it's the quality of the individual soldiers that makes the difference. Now, no offense to those who love muslim armies, but european heavy troops tended to be more... "resilient" then their muslim counter-parts (by that, I mean that battle-axes and full chain-mail tend to beat out scimitars and turbans in one on one combat). Now, muslims traditionally were able to raise far larger armies and they were clothed appropriately for the North-African clime, so I am by no means saying that the european armies are universally better at everything, not by a long shot... only that in the situation of a wall breech assault, european heavy infantry are at an advantage.

What's the death ratio when attacking a wall -- I imagine it's probably higher than 1:6 ?

If we literally just spam Carthage by sending everyone of our men up the walls then have them open the gate, eventually we will win.

[The Holy Dominion of Inesea]

Sounds so boss, and I'm on that list




But walls dude, walls. Even if you can get a breech with your siege weapons, the hole not going to be very big (that, or your guys are going to all be grey beards by the time the assault is launched), and then it comes down to assailing the breech, where the most quality troops the defenders can muster will be standing (or more probably kneeling to avoid the flying projectiles from your siege weapons). Both of their flanks will be protected, and a wall of shields nettled with spearpoints will be facing outwards at your forces, with archers standing atop both walls, waiting to pour bolts of death down on any who dare approach. In that sort of battle, numbers are inconsequential -- it's the quality of the individual soldiers that makes the difference. Now, no offense to those who love muslim armies, but european heavy troops tended to be more... "resilient" then their muslim counter-parts (by that, I mean that battle-axes and full chain-mail tend to beat out scimitars and turbans in one on one combat). Now, muslims traditionally were able to raise far larger armies and they were clothed appropriately for the North-African clime, so I am by no means saying that the european armies are universally better at everything, not by a long shot... only that in the situation of a wall breech assault, european heavy infantry are at an advantage.



What's the death ratio when attacking a wall -- I imagine it's probably higher than 1:6 ?

If we literally just spam Carthage by sending everyone of our men up the walls then have them open the gate, eventually we will win.

Or have no more men.

[Alleniana]

Alright.
I have many, many issues.
1. So, what is the population of Ethiopia? if they can afford to send 100k men away from the homeland to some far flung place, then they must have at least 10 million people, which I doubt, but I may be wrong.
2. How the HELL are the two big Muslim nations supporting that number of troops? Their armies are the size of armies typically found in the Industrial Revolution era, or thereabout. Moving them through the desert and not even posting about supplies? Wtf?
3. What is the population of Carthage? You have 80,000 men, which I doubt greatly. Even the Angevin empire would barely be able to muster that number of professionals, although with defensive advantage, I suppose that makes a point.
4. How come you keep saying you have a big-ass navy? When I conquered Florence, I conquered it upstream. Your managing to get people there at all was a miracle, which, in retrospect, looks like a massive glaring godmod. Not to mention, you have only had about 50 years to build up (I think?) with a small-ish country, newly established and mainly in the desert.
5. So, how is Carthage going to be conquered? Spam men at it? Sure, eventually, ignoring logistics, you might win. But do you really think hundreds of thousands of men will be like "eh, whatever" and rush at a wall they have seen possibly hundreds of thousands die attacking continually? Ignoring logistics, so this army may not even exist.
6. Death ratios. No. The attacker must have approximately 20 times the defenders to be definite of victory (as in, certain) , at least 10 times to be sane and attempt an attack, and at the very least, 5 times the attackers if they even want a chance to win.
7. Navy. Not sure what everyone's views on it are, but this is mine.
Me and Kiev win.
I am the foremost Mediterranean maritime power, with over a thousand vessels. Kiev, not sure, but they have claimed to be as powerful or even more so than me, and although that MAY be an exaggeration, they are still the undoubted boss of the Black Sea and a major Mediterranean power. You may have noticed that we are both on the same side, along with some other powers. On the Muslim side, we have two non-naval concentrated countries with relatively few trees, one of which has a Red Sea focused navy. So not strong. Then there's Ethiopia, which will have to sail their navy, likely not too big, around Africa. So no to that as well.
8. Money? Money. Listen. When you hire mercs, you need buttloads of money. They are quite literally putting their lives on the line to do something that will take a lot of time, resources, trust, energy and stuff in return for money. They are risking their livelihood. So you'd assume you need a lot of money. You get money from taxes. When 2.5% of your population is on a massive war, you will already be massively short on money. Also, money is hard to get you know. You don't just say "oh, I mined this" and suddenly have lots of money. Money is very hard to get, and very hard to retain. So keep that in mind.
9. Travelling. How did all of you suddenly pop into existence armies of thousands, then have them pop somewhere? Not all of you are guilty, but a few are. You can only move from about one side of the Nile Delta to the other in a week if you want them to be able to fight at the end. Also, mobilizing takes lots of time and organization. Your army doesn't just sit in the capital smoking every day. If it, did everyone would be bankrupt.

[Valentir]

Alright.
I have many, many issues.
1. So, what is the population of Ethiopia? if they can afford to send 100k men away from the homeland to some far flung place, then they must have at least 10 million people, which I doubt, but I may be wrong.
2. How the HELL are the two big Muslim nations supporting that number of troops? Their armies are the size of armies typically found in the Industrial Revolution era, or thereabout. Moving them through the desert and not even posting about supplies? Wtf?
3. What is the population of Carthage? You have 80,000 men, which I doubt greatly. Even the Angevin empire would barely be able to muster that number of professionals, although with defensive advantage, I suppose that makes a point.
4. How come you keep saying you have a big-ass navy? When I conquered Florence, I conquered it upstream. Your managing to get people there at all was a miracle, which, in retrospect, looks like a massive glaring godmod. Not to mention, you have only had about 50 years to build up (I think?) with a small-ish country, newly established and mainly in the desert.
5. So, how is Carthage going to be conquered? Spam men at it? Sure, eventually, ignoring logistics, you might win. But do you really think hundreds of thousands of men will be like "eh, whatever" and rush at a wall they have seen possibly hundreds of thousands die attacking continually? Ignoring logistics, so this army may not even exist.
6. Death ratios. No. The attacker must have approximately 20 times the defenders to be definite of victory (as in, certain) , at least 10 times to be sane and attempt an attack, and at the very least, 5 times the attackers if they even want a chance to win.
7. Navy. Not sure what everyone's views on it are, but this is mine.
Me and Kiev win.
I am the foremost Mediterranean maritime power, with over a thousand vessels. Kiev, not sure, but they have claimed to be as powerful or even more so than me, and although that MAY be an exaggeration, they are still the undoubted boss of the Black Sea and a major Mediterranean power. You may have noticed that we are both on the same side, along with some other powers. On the Muslim side, we have two non-naval concentrated countries with relatively few trees, one of which has a Red Sea focused navy. So not strong. Then there's Ethiopia, which will have to sail their navy, likely not too big, around Africa. So no to that as well.
8. Money? Money. Listen. When you hire mercs, you need buttloads of money. They are quite literally putting their lives on the line to do something that will take a lot of time, resources, trust, energy and stuff in return for money. They are risking their livelihood. So you'd assume you need a lot of money. You get money from taxes. When 2.5% of your population is on a massive war, you will already be massively short on money. Also, money is hard to get you know. You don't just say "oh, I mined this" and suddenly have lots of money. Money is very hard to get, and very hard to retain. So keep that in mind.
9. Travelling. How did all of you suddenly pop into existence armies of thousands, then have them pop somewhere? Not all of you are guilty, but a few are. You can only move from about one side of the Nile Delta to the other in a week if you want them to be able to fight at the end. Also, mobilizing takes lots of time and organization. Your army doesn't just sit in the capital smoking every day. If it, did everyone would be bankrupt.

How is a kingdom next door a "far flung place"? It is right across the fucking river from me!

[G-Tech Corporation]

Allen has a fair point about the army sizes; together the attackers have raised about 620k men, if posts are to be believed, a figure which outnumbers Napoleon's Grand Armee (of 1812) by seventy thousand men. You can make the "they're not professionals" argument all you want, but putting that amount of men in a single area to attack a single city means tens of thousands, if not hundreds, will be dying monthly from disease, starving because the tiny coastal riads of N Africa can't hope to supply them, and in general being inefficient in the attack.

Lets think about this; being generous, suppose Carthage, being on the sea-side, has a perimeter wall of four miles. The average human male is about 2.5 feet wide. Four miles is ~21000 feet for you metric people, and assuming your average siege ladder is about three feet wide to accommodate the climbing soldier (21000/3 = 7000) only seven thousand attacking troops can be assailing the walls at once. That means about 1.1% of the attacking force can actually be engaging in the assault at any given time, even if the attackers raise ladders and keep them up on literally every single foot of wall. All the rest are just standing around waiting with arrows and rocks raining down on them, and Carthage with reinforcements assuredly has enough men to cover the length of the wall, so many many waves will be necessary to secure victory.

That was guesstimated maths, but you get the picture; in medieval times the consideration wasn't always how many men you could deploy, but how many men you could effectively deploy. I group my forces into Great Companies of five thousand for precisely that reason. A RL Roman legion was the same size, and large enough to accomplish all but the most grinding of military tasks without reinforcements, without risks huge losses to disease and remaining fairly easy to supply on a local level.

[The Holy Dominion of Inesea]

The population of Tunis(Carthage) 110,000
The population of Algiers 10,000
The population of Annaba 45,000
The population of Sfax 60,000

Those are the cities I could find for Carthaginian Territory.

[Elerian]

The 80 K men I have are mostly crap only about 15-20,000 are actually well or moderately well trained men.

[The Holy Dominion of Inesea]

There were 4 million people total in Eygpt and North Africa at the time of the Siege.

[Elerian]

You kinda just god modded Insea I never said I had engaged quite the contrary.

[Elerian]

There were 4 million people total in Eygpt and North Africa at the time of the Siege.

There were about 7.2 million throughout my entire kingdom so I doubt it would be that little.

[The Holy Dominion of Inesea]

You kinda just god modded Insea I never said I had engaged quite the contrary.

Carthage attacked your fleet. Do your ships not fight back?

[The Holy Dominion of Inesea]

There were 4 million people total in Eygpt and North Africa at the time of the Siege.

There were about 7.2 million throughout my entire kingdom so I doubt it would be that little.

Spain and Arabia are not in that count

[Elerian]

You kinda just god modded Insea I never said I had engaged quite the contrary.

Carthage attacked your fleet. Do your ships not fight back?

No no I did not they just came out and charged I did not respond until just now. SO if you would change that thatd be great

[Elerian]

There were about 7.2 million throughout my entire kingdom so I doubt it would be that little.

Spain and Arabia are not in that count

I wasnt talking about spain?

[The Holy Dominion of Inesea]

Spain and Arabia are not in that count

I wasnt talking about spain?

I did not know if you were Ayyubid or Almohades. Spain(Almohades) and Arabia(Ayyubids) are big population areas. That is why the count seems low.

[The Holy Dominion of Inesea]

Edited. The Blockaders have become blockaded.

[Reatra]

YES! I just looked up natural resource maps of Europe and can I be a western Holy Roman Empire province? Because this is about the time when feudalism starts to go down.