Europa Universalis: New World (Alternate Earth: OOC/Open)

[Novacom]

it said 1492 on the fourth line of actual IC in Bold Text, hardly hidden away how can you say your a good reader not noticing that! even then 1490 is 8 years far too early ignoring every problem.

If we're changing the year and America is very much discovered does this mean we're restarting the IC as it makes all the posts about scrambling round looking for America a bit pointless if we know it exists and it's to the west?

I thought you guys mentioned somewhere that you were going to put in who wrote it when using the RP account?

[Mondrova]

I prefered 1501 but settled for 1500. I mean if it is not yet the 16th century thenbthe new national ideas should not make an impact yet.

To be fair, 1500 isn't in the 16th century either, but we still just kinda glazed over that. Though, if you want, we can change the date.

Alright, how about this: after an expedition discovered a sea route to India in 1490, the French East Indies Company was formed to find routes to the continent. Currently, they only do expeditions, but hope to commence trade operations? If they were determined to do so, it is possible Francia could have discovered a route to China sooner. And the OOC says 1500, so you cant say I am too lazy to be a good reader.

Like I said, I see no reason why you should have discovered the route earlier. Asia is a valuable prize, far more so that the America's will be for quite some time. Discovering it ICly isn't unreasonable.

[Bering]

so 1500 it is?

I prefer it but am not sure it is my place to decide.

I would prefer it as well

it said 1492 on the fourth line of actual IC in Bold Text, hardly hidden away how can you say your a good reader not noticing that! even then 1490 is 8 years far too early ignoring every problem.

If we're changing the year and America is very much discovered does this mean we're restarting the IC as it makes all the posts about scrambling round looking for America a bit pointless if we know it exists and it's to the west?

I thought you guys mentioned somewhere that you were going to put in who wrote it when using the RP account?

I don't we have to restart, I mean people were acting like it was 1500 anyway so why bother restarting when a few date changes will settle the issue?

[Kerblaekistan]

I prefered 1501 but settled for 1500. I mean if it is not yet the 16th century thenbthe new national ideas should not make an impact yet.

To be fair, 1500 isn't in the 16th century either, but we still just kinda glazed over that. Though, if you want, we can change the date.

Alright, how about this: after an expedition discovered a sea route to India in 1490, the French East Indies Company was formed to find routes to the continent. Currently, they only do expeditions, but hope to commence trade operations? If they were determined to do so, it is possible Francia could have discovered a route to China sooner. And the OOC says 1500, so you cant say I am too lazy to be a good reader.

Like I said, I see no reason why you should have discovered the route earlier. Asia is a valuable prize, far more so that the America's will be for quite some time. Discovering it ICly isn't unreasonable.

So, having a reason to go there is why I shouldnt have access to the route?

[Novacom]

I was going off a vague remembrance of the argument of 1492 v 1500, if I remember correctly and this may not be correct but wasn't the argument for 1492 that the 8 years could be used in exploring and initial establishing while looking for the new world while 1500 started with the new world for sure definitley discovered and not just a rumour being investigated.

[Bering]

I was going off a vague remembrance of the argument of 1492 v 1500, if I remember correctly and this may not be correct but wasn't the argument for 1492 that the 8 years could be used in exploring and initial establishing while looking for the new world while 1500 started with the new world for sure definitley discovered and not just a rumour being investigated.

If you read the posts by a lot of nations on the Ic you would see no one is really exploring as much as establishing forts and initial colonies

[Mondrova]

To be fair, 1500 isn't in the 16th century either, but we still just kinda glazed over that. Though, if you want, we can change the date.



Like I said, I see no reason why you should have discovered the route earlier. Asia is a valuable prize, far more so that the America's will be for quite some time. Discovering it ICly isn't unreasonable.

So, having a reason to go there is why I shouldnt have access to the route?

That isn't an argument. If I want to go to America, should I already have a map of it? Can't be bothered posting trying to find the route to Asia instead of it just being handed to you?

[Novacom]

Two people have done so, and there was already one comment by a Co-op about that perhaps being too soon which was linked to something unresolved in how the passage of time is being done, everyone else is still sending expeditions based on the vague rumours that there be something past the dragons.

[Kerblaekistan]

So, having a reason to go there is why I shouldnt have access to the route?

That isn't an argument. If I want to go to America, should I already have a map of it? Can't be bothered posting trying to find the route to Asia instead of it just being handed to you?

But its okay that Portugal is already making Brazil a colony?

[Parhe]

Which is why I ment I settled for 1500. Anyway, is it a free ride if we do let all the nations know about Asia and just prevent colonization for a while.
Maybe or I can colonize or um find a route to Europe

[Novacom]

Portugal if you noticed asked if he was allowed to ignoring the comment to Nepal about timing then went and posted, draw from that what you will.

Either way passage of time needs to be sorted out

[Mondrova]

That isn't an argument. If I want to go to America, should I already have a map of it? Can't be bothered posting trying to find the route to Asia instead of it just being handed to you?

But its okay that Portugal is already making Brazil a colony?

Landing on a beach doesn't make any land your colony. Just finding the lands doesn't mean he has a colony. Besides, it was made clear that people wouldn't just be colonizing all over the place, and it would take numerous posts to establish a single functioning settlement. In all honesty, I would say most of his people will die in between the ship leaving for Portugal, and its returning. Seems reasonable to me anyway, especially as they are soldiers, not settlers. (Well, they seem to be soldiers. They seem to be taking having some of there men attacked rather well).

Anyway, that still isn't an argument. Instead of going on about how you should have all this helpful information just cause, why not go make a post about, ya know, trying to find Asia?

[Sorestia]

I personally think people in this RP should have to obtain approval from an OP on the territory they want to claim this century. It does not mean they automatically get it, or start with it, but it prevents all this clusterf***ery that has been going on. Furthermore, people can RP any conflicts with natives or "native players" that they were hoping to without approval.

The idea of "racing" to the new world when one is participating in a free-form text-based role play seems silly to me. Why can't we all decide what is desired for this century and play it out? Prevents players from becoming disillusioned when their grandiose internal thought process ("Another rival colony? But I wanted to claim ALL of Brazil) comes crashing down.

[Parhe]

Mond could my nation also be trying to find a route around Africa to Europe?

[Mondrova]

Mond could my nation also be trying to find a route around Africa to Europe?

Of course. Anybody can try and find these routes, well, assuming its feasible. I'm not saying you can't find the routes to anyone, just that I don't see why you should start out knowing about them.

[Kerblaekistan]

But its okay that Portugal is already making Brazil a colony?

Landing on a beach doesn't make any land your colony. Just finding the lands doesn't mean he has a colony. Besides, it was made clear that people wouldn't just be colonizing all over the place, and it would take numerous posts to establish a single functioning settlement. In all honesty, I would say most of his people will die in between the ship leaving for Portugal, and its returning. Seems reasonable to me anyway, especially as they are soldiers, not settlers. (Well, they seem to be soldiers. They seem to be taking having some of there men attacked rather well).

Anyway, that still isn't an argument. Instead of going on about how you should have all this helpful information just cause, why not go make a post about, ya know, trying to find Asia?

It talks about establishing the land and building up defenses. What do you call that?

[Bering]

Landing on a beach doesn't make any land your colony. Just finding the lands doesn't mean he has a colony. Besides, it was made clear that people wouldn't just be colonizing all over the place, and it would take numerous posts to establish a single functioning settlement. In all honesty, I would say most of his people will die in between the ship leaving for Portugal, and its returning. Seems reasonable to me anyway, especially as they are soldiers, not settlers. (Well, they seem to be soldiers. They seem to be taking having some of there men attacked rather well).

Anyway, that still isn't an argument. Instead of going on about how you should have all this helpful information just cause, why not go make a post about, ya know, trying to find Asia?

It talks about establishing the land and building up defenses. What do you call that?

setting up a fort, which historically had poor survival rates if isolated from supplies

[Kerblaekistan]

It talks about establishing the land and building up defenses. What do you call that?

setting up a fort, which historically had poor survival rates if isolated from supplies

A fort is a type of settlement.

[Parhe]

"Quest For the New World: Your explorers are setting sail for uncharted lands, searching for glory. Allows exploration and settling of uncharted territory"

Even if I had this would I be able to colonize the Americas? Also or could I, without this, colonize elsewhere like Borneo or New Guinea, seeing as both might be known by my nation. I am however also not sure of the difference between colonizing and expanding, is it just how far it is?

[Mondrova]

Landing on a beach doesn't make any land your colony. Just finding the lands doesn't mean he has a colony. Besides, it was made clear that people wouldn't just be colonizing all over the place, and it would take numerous posts to establish a single functioning settlement. In all honesty, I would say most of his people will die in between the ship leaving for Portugal, and its returning. Seems reasonable to me anyway, especially as they are soldiers, not settlers. (Well, they seem to be soldiers. They seem to be taking having some of there men attacked rather well).

Anyway, that still isn't an argument. Instead of going on about how you should have all this helpful information just cause, why not go make a post about, ya know, trying to find Asia?

It talks about establishing the land and building up defenses. What do you call that?

I see they have established some form of camp, and are trying not to die from hostile attacks, which I'd say isn't totally unreasonable. At any rate, that isn't a colony, and trust me, nobody gets to have some easy or quick time about making their colony.

[Novacom]

so basically we've established ICly (if he IS building a fort death trap to die in) that the Portuguese people somehow obtained collective lobotomies and survived the procedure given medicine at the time.

Food for Thought for the success chance of Nepals warplans...

[Mondrova]

"Quest For the New World: Your explorers are setting sail for uncharted lands, searching for glory. Allows exploration and settling of uncharted territory"

Even if I had this would I be able to colonize the Americas? Also or could I, without this, colonize elsewhere like Borneo or New Guinea, seeing as both might be known by my nation. I am however also not sure of the difference between colonizing and expanding, is it just how far it is?

Well, yes, you could colonize America, especially the west coast I'd say. Without the Quest for the New World, I'd say you would be restricted from doing as such.

As I understand it, colonizing is the process of emigrating to a settlement of some sort, or to a trade post, or any sort of construct built by your own people or some other foreigner, in someone else's land or in supposed "uninhabited territory." Colonialism is different from this as an aside, and involves the establishment, maintenance, and expansion of colonies by some form of authority from the home nation. This authority though could literally just be linked to the colony by a charter though, most of the time, it is the colonists themselves that do the expanding, though not so much the governing, or at least, they have to report to some sort of higher power, typically back home.

Anyway, you basically would have to engage in conquest. So, you have to go in and take whatever cities or towns are available, and administrating from there.

[Garwall]

A big issue right now with colonization is that there doesn't seem to be any incentive for any voyages outside of Europe in search of new territory. With such a fractured and hostile Europe, as well as a fractured Middle East, there would be no single power to monopolize the European portion of the Indian Ocean/Silk Road trade, so most naval efforts would probably be spent on maintaining dominance over either the Mediterranean-Middle East trade, or the North Sea/Hanseatic trade.

Venice and the Ottoman Empire had virtual dominance over every facet of Mediterranean trade, allowing them to charge outrageous prices, which gave incentive for explorers to find an alternate route to break the Venetian/Ottoman trade monopoly. There is no such incentive here. We have the Persians, Egyptians, Babylonians, and Turks fighting for control of the Indian Ocean/Silk Road trade, and several competing Merchant republics vying for Mediterranean dominance over trade, which would actually drive prices down. So unless one merchant republic absorbs all the others, or the Timurids descend from the Steppes and rebuild the Ilkhanate and tax the hell out of everything going west, Europeans have little economic incentive to explore beyond Europe.

"Quest For the New World: Your explorers are setting sail for uncharted lands, searching for glory. Allows exploration and settling of uncharted territory"

Even if I had this would I be able to colonize the Americas? Also or could I, without this, colonize elsewhere like Borneo or New Guinea, seeing as both might be known by my nation. I am however also not sure of the difference between colonizing and expanding, is it just how far it is?

Again, the same with Europe. What's the cultural and economic incentive to do so, with an already large front to defend in Manchuria, and lots of potential cities to sack and loot around you?

Looking on the subject from a modern view with historical background, it's easy to come to the conclusion that investments in exploration and colonization (though this would be more conquest than colonization) will bring fantastic wealth over time, but looking at it from a prudent Ruler of the early 16th century, it's also easy to say that the gold collected from the peasants is better spent on building new defenses to prevent our borders from being sacked by the Despot over the hill.

[Unicario]

A big issue right now with colonization is that there doesn't seem to be any incentive for any voyages outside of Europe in search of new territory. With such a fractured and hostile Europe, as well as a fractured Middle East, there would be no single power to monopolize the European portion of the Indian Ocean/Silk Road trade, so most naval efforts would probably be spent on maintaining dominance over either the Mediterranean-Middle East trade, or the North Sea/Hanseatic trade.

Venice and the Ottoman Empire had virtual dominance over every facet of Mediterranean trade, allowing them to charge outrageous prices, which gave incentive for explorers to find an alternate route to break the Venetian/Ottoman trade monopoly. There is no such incentive here. We have the Persians, Egyptians, Babylonians, and Turks fighting for control of the Indian Ocean/Silk Road trade, and several competing Merchant republics vying for Mediterranean dominance over trade, which would actually drive prices down. So unless one merchant republic absorbs all the others, or the Timurids descend from the Steppes and rebuild the Ilkhanate and tax the hell out of everything going west, Europeans have little economic incentive to explore beyond Europe.

Et true. Get on IRC though.

[Parhe]

Wait, I thought you could still colonize without the idea except not for a set number of years before. Though that idea only mentioned unchartered land and I would think my nation withbitscdescription would be pretty famaliar with the Eastern Indian ocean and western Pacific.