Europa Universalis: Our World (Alternate Earth: OOC/Open)

[Great Nepal]

Hi, so uhm, first of all, excellent post, very well written and well done.

However, if I understand this correctly, a Welsh peasant went from a homeless jack-of-all trades to one of the most powerful men in the Empire, with one of the highest titles in medieval Europe, in addition to a massive estate, all in the span of sixteen years? May I ask how this is possible, given that social mobility in the medieval ages was either limited to the Church or marrying above your class. There are examples of commoners and peasants being elevated to higher social classes, but that usually occurred by marrying a wealthy and high-class widow (unlikely and, as far as I can tell, has only happened a few times in the medieval era), or by entering the Church (which, since he's a Duke, is obviously not the case).

Now, kings and queens did sometimes grant titles and knight commoners, but this was an uncommon case, and the titles were usually low-level, with no large estates and/or prestige attached. To grant a commoner such a high title of Duke would cause severe unrest among the other nobility, who would likely see it as eroding the prestige and honor of their class, or as an insult to themselves.

Thanks.
I should have explained Cledwyn bit in IC...
He is distant cousin of old Duke who rebelled against Empire in the Welsh civil war. After duke was captured, all of close family fled the nation fearing prosecution. Cledwyn came forward and proved his linage to Duke and as legal successor, king has no choice but to grant him the title.

[Mondrova]

Oh, you can definitely say something, but the wrath of the Caliphate shall descend upon you!

Why? I have done nothing to offend.

Well ICly my nation doesn't know that you are ebil and siding with da pope, but OOCly I do and I shall complain about it, like a good human.

[Annaliea]

To clarify, the reason I refused to obey the Papal edict is because I want to return to Roman Paganism, as that was the main religion of the Roman Republic, which is the edition of Rome which I want to be a revitalisation of. And plus, I think it will be interesting to have a Pope in exile.

[Great Nepal]

To clarify, the reason I refused to obey the Papal edict is because I want to return to Roman Paganism, as that was the main religion of the Roman Republic, which is the edition of Rome which I want to be a revitalisation of. And plus, I think it will be interesting to have a Pope in exile.

You are exiling pope?
Awesome!... um I mean that is unacceptable breach of papal sovereignty! Mind exiling him to London?

[Mondrova]

To clarify, the reason I refused to obey the Papal edict is because I want to return to Roman Paganism, as that was the main religion of the Roman Republic, which is the edition of Rome which I want to be a revitalisation of. And plus, I think it will be interesting to have a Pope in exile.

You realize there will be extreme ramifications in your nation, ja? Also, I thought you weren't just emulating the Romans?

[Annaliea]

To clarify, the reason I refused to obey the Papal edict is because I want to return to Roman Paganism, as that was the main religion of the Roman Republic, which is the edition of Rome which I want to be a revitalisation of. And plus, I think it will be interesting to have a Pope in exile.

You realize there will be extreme ramifications in your nation, ja? Also, I thought you weren't just emulating the Romans?

Oh yes, there will, but I'm intending to go with having major religions instead of having a single national religion. in which case Catholics would still be able to practice. Or, if it makes more sense that way, I might simply convert to Orthodox Catholicism so that my national religion is still a form of Christianity. And I am revitalising aspects of the second stage of Rome, the Republic, such as it's social system and government system, but at the same time using different focuses and culture.

[Mondrova]

You realize there will be extreme ramifications in your nation, ja? Also, I thought you weren't just emulating the Romans?

Oh yes, there will, but I'm intending to go with having major religions instead of having a single national religion. in which case Catholics would still be able to practice. Or, if it makes more sense that way, I might simply convert to Orthodox Catholicism so that my national religion is still a form of Christianity. And I am revitalising aspects of the second stage of Rome, the Republic, such as it's social system and government system, but at the same time using different focuses and culture.

You misunderstand, changing your religion at all, WILL have extreme ramifications. You are at the heart of Christendom, your population is doubtlessly filled with highly devout Catholics who listen to the pope.

[Annaliea]

Well, there is the choice that I could stay Roman Catholic, however simply disobey the orders of the Pope. I mean, it will still probably result in excommunication, however it will mean that the majority of my population is happy. That way I can encourage paganism while still maintaining Roman Catholicism...?

[Great Nepal]

Well, there is the choice that I could stay Roman Catholic, however simply disobey the orders of the Pope. I mean, it will still probably result in excommunication, however it will mean that the majority of my population is happy. That way I can encourage paganism while still maintaining Roman Catholicism...?

Or, if you want to change from Catholicism so much you could send out assassins to take out Catholics. If you raid Rome and secretly send me all skeletons in closet of pope and papacy, I promise not to intervene.

[United States of Cascadia]

Older app. New one is here.

NS Name: United States of Cascadia
Nation Name: The Serene Republic of Venice
Capital City: Venice
Government Type: Merchant Republic (In practice, a merchant kingdom)
Head of State: Doge Lucio Orsini
Claimed Territory: (Provide a detailed description, or preferred, a map) Venice, Istria, Veneto, Dalmatia, Malta, City of Tripoli
State/National Religion: Venetian Orthodoxy
Dominant Religion: Orthodox Christianity
Minority Religion(s): Roman Catholicism
Population: (Please keep realistic...) 1,000,000 (based on the city of Venice having numbers of 150,000 alone in the early 15th century.)
Population Growth Rate: 0.3%
Military Organization: Mercenary Guilds
Military Size: 36,000 (These numbers are based off the size of Venice's fleet in 1410, most of the military consisted of sailors and marines.)
Fleet Size: 3,300
National Flag: (Put in a spoiler.)

National Focus: Seafaring, Trade-winds
National Idea(s): Mare Nostrum
Trade Policy: (Free trade or Mercantilism) Mercantilism
Civil Freedoms: (Serfdom or Free Subjects) Largely free subjects
Primary Import(s): Silk, spices, grain, Iron, Dye, Coffee
Primary Export(s): Glass, textiles, metalwork, Fish, Olives, Oils
Primary Culture: (Primary culture/linguistic group) Venetian
Accepted Cultures: (Up to 2 cultures, must be present in your territory) Venetian, Greek, Croatian

Brief Description of your nation's History:
The early history of Venice remains largely the same as our world's history, up until around the year 1120. In this year the Republic came under control of the once-powerful Orsini family of Central Italy.

The Orsini's had over the course of the 11th century lost most of their holdings in Rome, the rest of Latium, and even their home-city of Orvieto to conflicts with the Papacy. The family did however manage to retain control of their substantial finances, and proceeded to purchase a substantial estate in Venice in 1094. The family went on to consolidate power with in the city, and by 1120, have their patrician, Pietro Orsini, elected as Doge of Venice.

Pietro, in 1124 (perhaps in revenge against the Papacy) aligned the Republic with the Byzantine empire. This alliance resulted in a large population of Greeks immigrating to the Republic, bringing their language, culture, and religion with them. In 1138, Pietro's successor, Domenico Orsini, converted to Orthodoxy and established an Orthodox patriarch as Archbishop of Venice. By 1142, the majority of the City had converted to the new faith. The governance of the city would proceed to alternate for the next hundred years between the Orsini family, their puppet family Oreseolos, and their rivals, the Candianos.

Throughout the 13th century, the Republic established trading cities throughout the Mediterranean and Black Seas, from Crimea, Malta, Tripoli, Cyprus, and the Holy lands. Many cities would be conquered by foreign powers, or would rebel during the early 14th century. The republic would maintain it's large merchant fleet through out the 14th century and into the 15th and develop into a substantial trading empire by the 15th century.


By 1402, the Republic has been directly controlled by the Orsini family for the past hundred years in direct succession.

Brief Description of your nation's economy: Venice's economy is largely mercantile, with smaller portions of the populace working in production and fishing. Agriculture is substantially smaller than other locations, of similar sized populations.
Brief Description of your nation's government: WIP
Brief Description of your nation's populace: WIP

RP Example:

[Cyborg Holland]

Crusade anybody?

[Ayreonia]

Just out of curiosity, who would be interested in a grain trade deal with me, given that it is my nations largest export, followed by citrus and building stone. I am positioned in a pretty strategic location for shipping and transport, and I will have access to pretty much all Med nations and most others as well.

I'll buy your grain. I'm right next door, so that's a plus.

By the way, I don't think citrus exports would work in our era. Fruit rot, and the only preservative of the day was salt...

[Holy Trek]

I guess all the PC German nations will serve as electors, how many are their?

Hopefully an odd number.

OTL, there were seven electors to start with. The emperor had to make some deals with a few of the German princes, in particular, the Duke of Hanover, the Duke of Brandenburg, and the Duke of Bavaria. Just before Napoleon dissolved the Holy Roman Empire, the emperor had created two more Electoral seats.

[Brabrantium]

aaaand everybody's ignoring me

[Ceannairceach]

aaaand everybody's ignoring me

Meh, for me, Cornwall is just too small of a fish to try and catch. If Britannia accepts your idea, the Scots-Irish would probably join in, but at the moment.... *Shrug*

[Mishmahig]

aaaand everybody's ignoring me

Meh, for me, Cornwall is just too small of a fish to try and catch. If Britannia accepts your idea, the Scots-Irish would probably join in, but at the moment.... *Shrug*

We Celtic nations should probably unite and stuff.

[Ceannairceach]

Meh, for me, Cornwall is just too small of a fish to try and catch. If Britannia accepts your idea, the Scots-Irish would probably join in, but at the moment.... *Shrug*

We Celtic nations should probably unite and stuff.

Sometime, maybe. But I'm still a Catholic nation. Until my eventual fall to Lollardy, it's unlikely.

[Mishmahig]

We Celtic nations should probably unite and stuff.

Sometime, maybe. But I'm still a Catholic nation. Until my eventual fall to Lollardy, it's unlikely.

The lack of action and responses of the Catholic nations appears to be signalling the collapse of the Catholic Church's power.

Come.....convert to Catharism..... Join your Celtic brethren!

[Ceannairceach]

Sometime, maybe. But I'm still a Catholic nation. Until my eventual fall to Lollardy, it's unlikely.

The lack of action and responses of the Catholic nations appears to be signalling the collapse of the Catholic Church's power.

Come.....convert to Catharism..... Join your Celtic brethren!

Lollardy is more present as of my edit to my app. But Lollards give no shits as to faith, so friendliness may be maintained.

Until I establish Lollardy as a rising power in the Kingdom, I can't.

[Parhe]

To the China guy, a big no. I have had my app for Korea ready for days to post and been working on it since even before this came to be a thread.

I asked Garwall a few times about me being able to reserve my nation and he said not until Asia is opened up, which I excepted to be around 1500. I am not compromising my planned territory or history at all, not even the Khitans or some future China.

[The Interstellar Mongol Khanate]

So....what's left?

[Cyborg Holland]

So....what's left?

Sweden....

I need some friends...

[Heirosoloa]

Ermegerd. 11 pages per day? This is going to take a while to browse.

I'm really interested in this, but I'm going to be reasonably slammed until next Sunday, sans this Sunday.
Would anyone mind if I took Brandenburg?

[Annaliea]

Just out of curiosity, who would be interested in a grain trade deal with me, given that it is my nations largest export, followed by citrus and building stone. I am positioned in a pretty strategic location for shipping and transport, and I will have access to pretty much all Med nations and most others as well.

I'll buy your grain. I'm right next door, so that's a plus.

By the way, I don't think citrus exports would work in our era. Fruit rot, and the only preservative of the day was salt...

Okay, that sounds good. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about Citrus. I think it would be a major internal industry, rather than a trade good.

[Euronion]

Well, there is the choice that I could stay Roman Catholic, however simply disobey the orders of the Pope. I mean, it will still probably result in excommunication, however it will mean that the majority of my population is happy. That way I can encourage paganism while still maintaining Roman Catholicism...?

There's a reason why everyone feared excommunication, not only because it meant your soul would burn in hell but because every Catholic was ordered to treat you as a heretic. Every single one of your Catholic subjects are supposed to hold the Pope above you and are supposed to refuse your orders. To invite Excommunication is to invite every Catholic in your nation to rebel. Some of them explicitly, some of them such as the nobles, merely bidding their time until they can remove you from power. I have said and will say again, this dismissal of the Pope's authority is not historical at all even for an alternate history. Most of your population should be catholic as the Roman Empire has had since Constantine to convert. Any attempt to dismiss the Pope in the heart of Christendom is inviting disaster especially when your official religion is Catholic and where a vast majority of your populace is Catholic. You can use Papal orders to give you justification for something else such as an invasion of heathen lands or something, but simply dismissing it was almost unheard of.