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Delanshar
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Posts: 2510
Founded: Feb 25, 2011
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Postby Delanshar » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:46 pm

Machtergreifung wrote:
Vehemia wrote:That sets a precedent that the West doesn't want happening

Just as NATO ships violating the Charter is a precedant that the rest of the world doesn't want happening?


They didn't violate any charter. The British Germans and Canadians aren't acting under the flag of NATO.
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Machtergreifung
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Founded: Jul 11, 2010
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Postby Machtergreifung » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:48 pm

Delanshar wrote:
Machtergreifung wrote:Just as NATO ships violating the Charter is a precedant that the rest of the world doesn't want happening?


They didn't violate any charter. The British Germans and Canadians aren't acting under the flag of NATO.


That wouldn't make any difference. In the '83 conflict, there was a reason why nobody came to give the British outright assistance, at least in the European sphere. Even if the navies aren't operating under the NATO flag, you have Britian, supported by other counties who happen to be members of NATO, fighting a war half-a-world away. THAT sents a dangerous precident that the world doesn't want to see.

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Vehemia
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Postby Vehemia » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:49 pm

Machtergreifung wrote:
Vehemia wrote:Which charter? NATO or UN?


NATO.

Germany sending ships to help Britain (even outwith the NATO framework) would be enough to trample on plenty of toes around the world.

They requested assistance under article four and we sent help. It was supposed to be a police action it was never supposed to be a war.
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Ardboe Eire
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Founded: May 28, 2011
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Postby Ardboe Eire » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Delanshar wrote:Libya, your post has absolutely no realism. Like, at all.
Change it.

It's fine to RP a comeback of pro-Gaddafi forces but it has to be gradual, realistic and include a little thing called background.

Ok I was crazy at trying for Tripoli so soon.
Maybe I'll try Sirte first.
RPs I'm participating in:

Die Wende:The change (Cold War RP)OOC/Signup:http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=235188&p=13832294#p13832294

World of 2013 RP(OOC/Sing-up page):http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=232224

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Vehemia
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Postby Vehemia » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Machtergreifung wrote:
Delanshar wrote:
They didn't violate any charter. The British Germans and Canadians aren't acting under the flag of NATO.


That wouldn't make any difference. In the '83 conflict, there was a reason why nobody came to give the British outright assistance, at least in the European sphere. Even if the navies aren't operating under the NATO flag, you have Britian, supported by other counties who happen to be members of NATO, fighting a war half-a-world away. THAT sents a dangerous precident that the world doesn't want to see.

The reason assistance wasn't given was it wasn't requested. The Americans were going to transfer ships to the British if one of their carriers got taken out. How does members of a military alliance assisting each other set a dangerous precedent?
"The pursuit of peace and progress cannot end in a few years in either victory or defeat. The pursuit of peace and progress, with its trials and its errors, its successes and its setbacks, can never be relaxed and never abandoned."
-Dag Hammarskjöld
- Republic of Canada in Birth of an Era
- Hansa Union in Medival RP
- Riel Battalion The Battle for Spain
http://www.politicaltest.net/test/graphic2/349788_eng.jpg
Economic Left/Right: -3.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.85

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Machtergreifung
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Founded: Jul 11, 2010
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Postby Machtergreifung » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:53 pm

Vehemia wrote:
Machtergreifung wrote:
NATO.

Germany sending ships to help Britain (even outwith the NATO framework) would be enough to trample on plenty of toes around the world.

They requested assistance under article four and we sent help. It was supposed to be a police action it was never supposed to be a war.


Then they're there under the NATO flag, as they were sent due to a NATO Charter article being invoked.

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Delanshar
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Founded: Feb 25, 2011
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Postby Delanshar » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:55 pm

Vehemia wrote:
Machtergreifung wrote:
That wouldn't make any difference. In the '83 conflict, there was a reason why nobody came to give the British outright assistance, at least in the European sphere. Even if the navies aren't operating under the NATO flag, you have Britian, supported by other counties who happen to be members of NATO, fighting a war half-a-world away. THAT sents a dangerous precident that the world doesn't want to see.

The reason assistance wasn't given was it wasn't requested. The Americans were going to transfer ships to the British if one of their carriers got taken out. How does members of a military alliance assisting each other set a dangerous precedent?


If anything is the dangerous precedent here it is that Brazil unilaterally took over a British island and is now justifying it by calling it a "peace" tactic.

So now any country can just unilaterally take over anything if they think it will help bring "peace" (according to them)?
Last edited by Delanshar on Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SPQR Legions
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Founded: Dec 02, 2012
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Postby SPQR Legions » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:09 pm

It isn't a crime to help your allies in wartime.

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Ublia
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Founded: Jun 04, 2012
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Postby Ublia » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:26 pm

I understand guerrilla groups are available. Must they be current or can you scrape something together? And if not what of Syria just wondering? Or Iraq?
Last edited by Ublia on Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Delanshar
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Founded: Feb 25, 2011
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Postby Delanshar » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:30 pm

Ublia wrote:I understand guerrilla groups are available. Must they be current or can you scrape something together?


They gotta be real.
Map: http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/8805/delansharinlucerna14.jpg
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Ublia
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Founded: Jun 04, 2012
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Postby Ublia » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:31 pm

Delanshar wrote:
Ublia wrote:I understand guerrilla groups are available. Must they be current or can you scrape something together?


They gotta be real.


Hmm okay. Hey what ever happened to Syria in the RP just wondering?
A Canadian Green Tory and Nationalist, who loves History, Sci-Fi, Fantasy and is always down to RP

"'Whither is God?' He cried; "I will tell you. We have killed him- you and I.'"- F. Neitzsche, The Gay Science
Economic Left/Right: -6.38
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Neutral: Eggplants and Switzerland
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Delanshar
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Founded: Feb 25, 2011
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Postby Delanshar » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:31 pm

Ublia wrote:
Delanshar wrote:
They gotta be real.


Hmm okay. Hey what ever happened to Syria in the RP just wondering?


We don't have someone playing Syria atm.
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Ublia
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Founded: Jun 04, 2012
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Postby Ublia » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:33 pm

Delanshar wrote:
Ublia wrote:
Hmm okay. Hey what ever happened to Syria in the RP just wondering?


We don't have someone playing Syria atm.


Okay...hmmm I am torn between Syria and the Ba'athist resistance in Iraq.
A Canadian Green Tory and Nationalist, who loves History, Sci-Fi, Fantasy and is always down to RP

"'Whither is God?' He cried; "I will tell you. We have killed him- you and I.'"- F. Neitzsche, The Gay Science
Economic Left/Right: -6.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.51
Canada, Green and or Red Toryism, Environmentalism, Canadian Nationalism, Neo-Classical Realism
Neutral: Eggplants and Switzerland
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Machtergreifung
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Founded: Jul 11, 2010
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Postby Machtergreifung » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:38 pm

Delanshar wrote:
Vehemia wrote:The reason assistance wasn't given was it wasn't requested. The Americans were going to transfer ships to the British if one of their carriers got taken out. How does members of a military alliance assisting each other set a dangerous precedent?


If anything is the dangerous precedent here it is that Brazil unilaterally took over a British island and is now justifying it by calling it a "peace" tactic.

So now any country can just unilaterally take over anything if they think it will help bring "peace" (according to them)?


I got the idea from the occupation of Goa, actually.

You have to admit, it does rather nicely present a grim choice to the other side. They can either accept the slight demands and enter into talks, in which case they get their island back, or they can refuse, spend months reducing the island, all the while the Falklands conflict grinds to a halt with UK/NATO supply chains grinding to a halt.

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Ardboe Eire
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Founded: May 28, 2011
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Postby Ardboe Eire » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:40 pm

Ardboe Eire wrote:
Delanshar wrote:Libya, your post has absolutely no realism. Like, at all.
Change it.

It's fine to RP a comeback of pro-Gaddafi forces but it has to be gradual, realistic and include a little thing called background.

Ok I was crazy at trying for Tripoli so soon.
Maybe I'll try Sirte first.

I edited it.
RPs I'm participating in:

Die Wende:The change (Cold War RP)OOC/Signup:http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=235188&p=13832294#p13832294

World of 2013 RP(OOC/Sing-up page):http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=232224

East Vs. West (Cold War RP:OOC/Signups):http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=232162

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Kryskov
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Founded: Oct 26, 2012
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Postby Kryskov » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:41 pm

Can I go ahead and say the fleet I assembled yesterday has arrived near Ascension?

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Ublia
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Founded: Jun 04, 2012
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Postby Ublia » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:45 pm

I noticed no one seems to be Iran why just out of curiosity?
A Canadian Green Tory and Nationalist, who loves History, Sci-Fi, Fantasy and is always down to RP

"'Whither is God?' He cried; "I will tell you. We have killed him- you and I.'"- F. Neitzsche, The Gay Science
Economic Left/Right: -6.38
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Neutral: Eggplants and Switzerland
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Sicoutimont
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Founded: Jun 07, 2012
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Postby Sicoutimont » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:47 pm

Machtergreifung wrote:
Delanshar wrote:
If anything is the dangerous precedent here it is that Brazil unilaterally took over a British island and is now justifying it by calling it a "peace" tactic.

So now any country can just unilaterally take over anything if they think it will help bring "peace" (according to them)?


I got the idea from the occupation of Goa, actually.

You have to admit, it does rather nicely present a grim choice to the other side. They can either accept the slight demands and enter into talks, in which case they get their island back, or they can refuse, spend months reducing the island, all the while the Falklands conflict grinds to a halt with UK/NATO supply chains grinding to a halt.


I do have to say, although I disagree with it IC'ly, it does provide a good holding point/bargaining chip for Brazil and Argentina in the war.
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Machtergreifung
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Founded: Jul 11, 2010
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Postby Machtergreifung » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:49 pm

Sicoutimont wrote:
Machtergreifung wrote:
I got the idea from the occupation of Goa, actually.

You have to admit, it does rather nicely present a grim choice to the other side. They can either accept the slight demands and enter into talks, in which case they get their island back, or they can refuse, spend months reducing the island, all the while the Falklands conflict grinds to a halt with UK/NATO supply chains grinding to a halt.


I do have to say, although I disagree with it IC'ly, it does provide a good holding point/bargaining chip for Brazil and Argentina in the war.

With the island and the Brazilian Navy, pretty much anything less that a carrier battlefleet would be sure of winnings its way through, and I plan to turn the island into Iwo Jima, but with missiles.

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Bojikami
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Founded: Jul 24, 2012
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Postby Bojikami » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:53 pm

UK and US, Cuba opened its ports for refueling to coalition forces.
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Delanshar
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Founded: Feb 25, 2011
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Postby Delanshar » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:23 pm

Bojikami wrote:UK and US, Cuba opened its ports for refueling to coalition forces.


Thank u
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Bojikami
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Founded: Jul 24, 2012
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Postby Bojikami » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:24 pm

Delanshar wrote:
Bojikami wrote:UK and US, Cuba opened its ports for refueling to coalition forces.


Thank u

I said it on the UN thread.
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New Nassrau
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Postby New Nassrau » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:25 pm

Wow... things have changed...
-Wombat Character
-Martina Del Sol looks like this
Sexy Nass Looks like this
I try my best RP-ing now a different character, like… this woman
-Nass adoptive parent of Aidannadia
-Friends are mostly everyone in Wombat
-Torrocca and I are not dating
-RIP, I WILL MISS THIS

I'm Jewish, AKA I killed Jesus
Lanos... where are you

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Delanshar
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Posts: 2510
Founded: Feb 25, 2011
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Postby Delanshar » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:29 pm

Ublia wrote:
Delanshar wrote:
We don't have someone playing Syria atm.


Okay...hmmm I am torn between Syria and the Ba'athist resistance in Iraq.


Be Syria lol. I'm so sick of south america right now. I actually miss mideast wars lol
Map: http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/8805/delansharinlucerna14.jpg
Factbook: http://iiwiki.wikkii.net/wiki/Delanshar
USA, Israel, Nationalism, Self-Determination, Gay Rights
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Ublia
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Founded: Jun 04, 2012
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Postby Ublia » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:34 pm

Delanshar wrote:
Ublia wrote:
Okay...hmmm I am torn between Syria and the Ba'athist resistance in Iraq.


Be Syria lol. I'm so sick of south america right now. I actually miss mideast wars lol


And as Syria I can be a Ba'athist state? Of course though the Assads are gone replaced by newer forces within the party.
A Canadian Green Tory and Nationalist, who loves History, Sci-Fi, Fantasy and is always down to RP

"'Whither is God?' He cried; "I will tell you. We have killed him- you and I.'"- F. Neitzsche, The Gay Science
Economic Left/Right: -6.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.51
Canada, Green and or Red Toryism, Environmentalism, Canadian Nationalism, Neo-Classical Realism
Neutral: Eggplants and Switzerland
Against: Communism, Separatism in Canada, Social Conservatism, Critical Theory (the last few years have been harsh), DESCARTES (don't blame me blame the Meditations)

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