1939! The World of Tomorrow! [PT/ALT-HIST/OOC/OPEN]

[The Akasha Colony]

There is no standard size because it will depend on type, year, and role. But presumably France's division sizes are comparable to European organizational standards of the time, and thus comparable to neither Volksgrenadiers, who were not regular infantry, or Communist troops in the east, who were similarly organized in a different fashion for a different purpose.

Would around 12,500 be a reason able estimate? Or we could just ask

There will be no reasonable estimate. Especially given that France is in the middle of completely reorganizing its military. A mountain division will be smaller than a field infantry division. A cavalry division may be larger or smaller than that. What does it matter in any event? The DPC isn't going to war with France.

[Alleniana]

Would around 12,500 be a reason able estimate? Or we could just ask

There will be no reasonable estimate. Especially given that France is in the middle of completely reorganizing its military. A mountain division will be smaller than a field infantry division. A cavalry division may be larger or smaller than that. What does it matter in any event? The DPC isn't going to war with France.

I suppose... true.
I just want to keep on top of things, and also because France and EZ are both sticking fingers in the Asian pie.

[Delsola]

There will be no reasonable estimate. Especially given that France is in the middle of completely reorganizing its military. A mountain division will be smaller than a field infantry division. A cavalry division may be larger or smaller than that. What does it matter in any event? The DPC isn't going to war with France.

I suppose... true.
I just want to keep on top of things, and also because France and EZ are both sticking fingers in the Asian pie.

Are they? Thet aren't really helping any major sides in the Sino-Japanese War, other than possible moral support, and they haven't made any incursions from their colonies/concessions.

[The Chartered Colonies of Old Dominion]

A French infantry division is about 20,000 men. Cavalry divisions are about half that size at maximum and mountain divisions are about 8,000 troops. French divisions are labeled as A, B, or C class. A class divisions are made of entirely active personnel, B are mixed active and reserve personnel, and C class are purely reserve divisions. Alongside the C class divisions, Milice Divisions will be providing a second-line role. If France makes substantial gains in its lost provinces and the Low Countries, men from those areas will be conscripted into the Milice, increasing France's total number of troops.
All told, troops allocated for the invasion of Europa Zentral are over 1,000,000 and over half a million men in reserve. About 300,000 troops are spread over France's colonial empire. Over 5,000 AFVs, 3,500 aircraft, and 45,000 artillery pieces will be deployed.

[Alleniana]

I suppose... true.
I just want to keep on top of things, and also because France and EZ are both sticking fingers in the Asian pie.

Are they? Thet aren't really helping any major sides in the Sino-Japanese War, other than possible moral support, and they haven't made any incursions from their colonies/concessions.

They have provided limited military support (the materials sent by EZ, I think France intended to, etc.)

[Altito Asmoro]

Detailed descriptions of the military of Brazil:

Air: With an adequate numbers of air force, the Brazil now has the boost in the air force units. However, most of them are outdated and just training planes, so it's not a very good advantages, especially with the members composed mainly with still-inexperienced pilots as they never involved in large-scale dogfights, with a small elite numbers of pilots.

Navy: Weakest branch, with the obsolete dreadnoughts and several handful of escorts with several patrol boats armed with outdated cannons and machine guns. Not a very good branch, considering how weak they are compared to Argentina and Gran Colombia.

Army: Largest branch and the strongest, the army has several French officers as the foreign advisers and weapons from the local industries. Limited-scales, shortage of skilled workers, and limited-access to their resources halt the expansion of the ground forces and their arms manufacturing industry.

[Fuurturr]

I'm okay with you guys discussing my app, and I'm prepared to wait a bit, but is anything in particular an issue? If it's the vagueness of post-1932, I can come up with a few reforms, but the basic jist is a progression towards corporatism controlled from the top downwards (i.e the fascist authoritarian variety) and the creation of a one-party state. With regards to foreign policy, Argentina has remained fairly isolated and focused on developing industry that will help it to rely less on exploitative foreign trading.

[Alleniana]

What time are we in now?

[The Chartered Colonies of Old Dominion]

What time are we in now?

August/September 1939 for me.

[Redemption-America]

I'm okay with you guys discussing my app, and I'm prepared to wait a bit, but is anything in particular an issue? If it's the vagueness of post-1932, I can come up with a few reforms, but the basic jist is a progression towards corporatism controlled from the top downwards (i.e the fascist authoritarian variety) and the creation of a one-party state. With regards to foreign policy, Argentina has remained fairly isolated and focused on developing industry that will help it to rely less on exploitative foreign trading.

We've talked about your app, and the mods aren't super comfortable with significant changes to Argentina's background, as that would change Peru and Gran Colombia and Brazil, etc. If you want to play as the 1939 Argentina, you're accepted. But its the same thing we told the Mexico applicant.... too many unintended changes to the backstory is a domino effect on your neighbors.

[Altito Asmoro]

Somehow, I support his acceptance. Brazil is in a need of the another close and somewhat balanced faction.

[Fuurturr]

I'm okay with you guys discussing my app, and I'm prepared to wait a bit, but is anything in particular an issue? If it's the vagueness of post-1932, I can come up with a few reforms, but the basic jist is a progression towards corporatism controlled from the top downwards (i.e the fascist authoritarian variety) and the creation of a one-party state. With regards to foreign policy, Argentina has remained fairly isolated and focused on developing industry that will help it to rely less on exploitative foreign trading.

We've talked about your app, and the mods aren't super comfortable with significant changes to Argentina's background, as that would change Peru and Gran Colombia and Brazil, etc. If you want to play as the 1939 Argentina, you're accepted. But its the same thing we told the Mexico applicant.... too many unintended changes to the backstory is a domino effect on your neighbors.

I've made sure to stay as insular and unaligned as possible, and besides, it's not as if
South American relations are exactly well defined, aside from 'Brazil and Gran Colombia don't like each other'. It's only Argentinian internal issues that are different, to reflect the complete shift in South America's world position, from unchanging America-sphere to New Europe. If I make sure to not alter any foreign relations, would the internal changes be acceptable?

Besides that, it's not as if Argentina was a big international player anyway, and the entire axis of South American geo-politics has shifted to the Colombian-Brazilian rivalry, so the international structure of South America would be vastly different anyway.

What if I got the okay from Brazil and Gran Colombia?

[Alleniana]

I support the Argentina app. Just putting it out there.

[Post War America]

Currently doing a sweep of all my RPs, expect something by Saturday evening at the latest (barring another crisis IRL).

[Alleniana]

Currently doing a sweep of all my RPs, expect something by Saturday evening at the latest (barring another crisis IRL).

Okaaaay

What time are we in now?

August/September 1939 for me.

Akasha, is this right?

[The Akasha Colony]

Currently doing a sweep of all my RPs, expect something by Saturday evening at the latest (barring another crisis IRL).

Okaaaay

August/September 1939 for me.

Akasha, is this right?

Seems so.

We've talked about your app, and the mods aren't super comfortable with significant changes to Argentina's background, as that would change Peru and Gran Colombia and Brazil, etc. If you want to play as the 1939 Argentina, you're accepted. But its the same thing we told the Mexico applicant.... too many unintended changes to the backstory is a domino effect on your neighbors.

I've made sure to stay as insular and unaligned as possible, and besides, it's not as if
South American relations are exactly well defined, aside from 'Brazil and Gran Colombia don't like each other'. It's only Argentinian internal issues that are different, to reflect the complete shift in South America's world position, from unchanging America-sphere to New Europe. If I make sure to not alter any foreign relations, would the internal changes be acceptable?

Besides that, it's not as if Argentina was a big international player anyway, and the entire axis of South American geo-politics has shifted to the Colombian-Brazilian rivalry, so the international structure of South America would be vastly different anyway.

What if I got the okay from Brazil and Gran Colombia?

Sorry for the delayed reply. We've been trying to avoid as much as possible any other changes to the timeline. In fact, we had set up Argentina's relations: it is generally friendlier towards Gran Colombia as a counterweight to its two historical rivals, Chile and Brazil. Given the changes we allowed previous on a testing basis have not thrilled us, we are generally averse to adding any more. You are welcome to play Argentina, but we would have to decline any such changes.

[Alleniana]

July 1939:
DPC western front:
With the attack beginning, the KMT air force attacks the few DPC planes in earnest. The bombardment ensures that there aren't any guns available to the DPC to target the air. Finally outnumbering the enemy, rather than being severely outnumbered like against the Japanese, several KMT planes attack per single DPC plane; their experience and superior tech render it extremely easy to hunt and catch the DPC planes, bracketing them with accurate fire from multiple angles. If a DPC plane attempts to chase a KMT plane, it backs off, focusing on not taking any damage to preserve the little equipment currently available to the KMT air force, and lures the DPC plane into dogfighting traps.

Still under the cover of the artillery fire, the KMT's armor advances towards the central DPC positions, lightly supported by infantry. The supporting infantry trot after the tanks and armored cars, using them for cover as they enter machine gun ranges. Further back, a larger formation of infantry masses, waiting for the tanks to break through the DPC defensive line.

As they enter range, the tanks begin putting shells into machine gun nests, a skill honed against the Japanese during desperate KMT assaults in the various urban battles.

All along the DPC defenses, the KMT advances to just outside machine gun range.

DPC northern front:
Similar to the western front, Li Zongren's captured tanks and armored cars drive for the center of the northern DPC line, lightly supported by infantry. Not as experienced as those with the main army, the tanks nonetheless put shells into machine gun nests.

I have a problem; the troops are nearly in machine gun range, yet you are still able to bombard me without friendly fire?

[Great Houses of Xie]

Which was why the DPC was bracketed earlier, establishing the proper ranging for the artillery. The troops advanced a bit after the bombardment began, to allow the artillery to get themselves sighted properly. Sure, some shells will fall short, but effective machine gun range is a couple hundred meters? More?

[Alleniana]

Which was why the DPC was bracketed earlier, establishing the proper ranging for the artillery. The troops advanced a bit after the bombardment began, to allow the artillery to get themselves sighted properly. Sure, some shells will fall short, but effective machine gun range is a couple hundred meters? More?

Machine gun range would be a fair bit more than a hundred metres. I doubt artillery fire is accurate enough to fall within that.

[Connori Pilgrims]

Typical machine gun effective range (presuming a medium weapon such as a Vickers Mark I, US M1917, Maxim, MG34/42, etc.) is about 700m-1000m

At most, arty accuracy tends to be within 150-250m CEP at their maximum ranges (greater than 27000m - basing this off accuracies noted for battleships). Guessing that KMT pieces being fired at no more than maybe 15000m range (until I get an idea of what guns everyone's using), one can be certain they'll be more accurate.

So unless the DPC waited for the KMT to be within 150-250m, friendly fire for the KMT will not yet be a major issue.

[Fuurturr]

If it makes a difference, I wasn't just going to buddy up with Brazil straight away, I was planning on courting both sides to keep it balanced for a while, with a real possibility of joining the Colombians. But okay, I respect that you don't want your world messed up. I probably won't play Argentina. Without major changes, its economy makes it practically unplayable, especially with a war-fueled duo of Brazil and Colombia to the North. I'll see what else is available.

[The Chartered Colonies of Old Dominion]

If it makes a difference, I wasn't just going to buddy up with Brazil straight away, I was planning on courting both sides to keep it balanced for a while, with a real possibility of joining the Colombians. But okay, I respect that you don't want your world messed up. I probably won't play Argentina. Without major changes, its economy makes it practically unplayable, especially with a war-fueled duo of Brazil and Colombia to the North. I'll see what else is available.

I wouldn't necessarily give up on Argentina. Admittedly its economy was unusually dependent on foreign states, the UK primarily, but it is probably South America's second military power. Its navy, in particular, is far superior to Brazil. Also, Argentina's internal politics present a lot of opportunity for interesting roleplay. Much of the military high-command is unsatisfied with the current conservative leadership and desires a corporatist, even fascist government. The United Officers' Group could launch its coup earlier for the sake or roleplay if you wished. The career of Colonel Perón presents possibilities for interesting character rp. Furthermore, the more militarized state of South America means that a major war could break out soon. Indeed, it seems very likely that Gran Colombia and Brazil will definitely go to war. When that happens, Argentina will be in a prime position to make major military gains.

[Redemption-America]

Sorry for the lack of posting on the IC thread, I have just been lolbusy lately. Written somewhere in the neighborhood of 25,000 words for various papers this week.

[Fuurturr]

If it makes a difference, I wasn't just going to buddy up with Brazil straight away, I was planning on courting both sides to keep it balanced for a while, with a real possibility of joining the Colombians. But okay, I respect that you don't want your world messed up. I probably won't play Argentina. Without major changes, its economy makes it practically unplayable, especially with a war-fueled duo of Brazil and Colombia to the North. I'll see what else is available.

I wouldn't necessarily give up on Argentina. Admittedly its economy was unusually dependent on foreign states, the UK primarily, but it is probably South America's second military power. Its navy, in particular, is far superior to Brazil. Also, Argentina's internal politics present a lot of opportunity for interesting roleplay. Much of the military high-command is unsatisfied with the current conservative leadership and desires a corporatist, even fascist government. The United Officers' Group could launch its coup earlier for the sake or roleplay if you wished. The career of Colonel Perón presents possibilities for interesting character rp. Furthermore, the more militarized state of South America means that a major war could break out soon. Indeed, it seems very likely that Gran Colombia and Brazil will definitely go to war. When that happens, Argentina will be in a prime position to make major military gains.

Yeah, I suppose. I just didn't want to have to deal with staging a coup right before entering a war. If I did that, I'd have a state that progressed towards basically the same socio-political model as I wanted, just with a terrible economy, a as-yet unsuppressed populace and fighting a war at the same time. Let's face it, the war is practically upon us all, and it takes more than the, what, six months tops we have before global conflict breaks out to overthrow the government, re-organise the administrative structure, gear up the military for the impending conflict and ensure total government control of the people before we have to face the biggest war humanity has ever seen. It can never end well, which'll make it kind of boring when I inevitably get curb-stomped. Maybe if it were 1936, or '33, it'd be different, but I just don't have the time to muster war-ready state. If we revolt, I'll not be able to organize fast enough. If I don't, we have a terrible economic base and a quite awful government and comparative military. I suppose I could wait a few years, until say '41.

Argh, I'm writing this so badly. What I'm trying to say is, I wouldn't have the skill to play an OTL Argentina and have a chance at survival without just being neutral for donkeys' years. Or maybe I'm just a pessimist. I'll hold off on another app whilst I consider my options.

[Alleniana]

GUys... why is Gran Colombia a Great Power?