1939! The World of Tomorrow! [PT/ALT-HIST/OOC/OPEN]

[Alleniana]

The KMT is bigger than them though, and I doubt they'd waste an opportunity to screw over the KMT.

Why? All that would happen is that they would waste manpower supporting a faction that doesn't agree with their ideology anyway. Why throw away lives and equipment fighting for a group they're going to have to subdue eventually anyway? The CPC is even more land-hungry than the KMT.

They can hardly 'screw over' the KMT with their strength anyway, and all it would do is strengthen the Japanese position.

I am smaller than KMT, so are they, but together, we are about equal, so essentially, they'd remove a major threat which only leaves me which I am quite sure that in their eyes, is weaker than the KMT. Anyway, if you don't agree, ok then.

[The Akasha Colony]

Would EZ be okay with reactionary anti-Romanian militias popping up?

That would depend on the sort and their strength. Street gang-like militias, like the early SA would not draw that much attention. Where possible obviously the authorities would try to tamp down on street trouble, but they wouldn't pursue too far. But if it turns into a large, tightly organized, and more importantly heavily armed militia, like the later SA, then there would be definite issues. This would be especially true if any overt ties to a political party exist.

[Redemption-America]

From all of the major powers, who is the best in terms of military?

There is no simple answer to that. Different powers have different strengths in their branches, and new developments are poised to upset the balance. Most importantly, some powers are matched against other strong powers, while some are against weak ones. Colombia is mostly matched against weaker South American powers, so its smaller military is relatively more powerful. Meanwhile, EZ is surrounded by powerful enemies, so while it might be considered to have the strongest military, it is proportionately weaker relative to its neighbors than Colombia.

As a very broad breakdown:

Army: France and EZ are at the top overall, both with large standing militaries and a large fleet of tanks. Between the two, France has more tanks, which are generally larger and better armored and armed, while most Europan tanks are lighter, faster, and are better designed for coordination. Doctrinally both are basically pursuing the same idea (concentrated armored divisions used for breakthroughs) but EZ has fully implemented the concept while France is adapting to it under de Gaulle's leadership. However, when France completes its transition, France will have more armored divisions than EZ due to its larger fleet of tanks, although some of these will be quite slow. Both are relatively evenly matched in other categories such as small arms and artillery, with the notable exception of machine guns, in which EZ is superior and relies much more heavily on them than any other power.

Of the rest, the Soviets have a very large military but it is not particularly well-equipped, especially for mobile operations. While its theorists have developed competent battle plans, the lack of mechanization, particularly a shortage of trucks, makes it difficult to carry these plans out.

Colombia has a well-trained and decently well-equipped army, but its small population base constrains its size. It is, however, better than any of its neighbors.

Japan has an excellent infantry force but is short on tanks, vehicles, and artillery relative to Western militaries. Its troops are fanatically devoted to the cause and its commanders competent but somewhat prone to arrogance. Their armored units are geared toward infantry support and are inferior to Western designs.

Nationalist China has a large army but of extremely variable quality, although it has better artillery and small arms than Japan. Some units, such as the Muslim divisions, are fanatics and extremely disciplined, while the peasant levies that make up much of the force are prone to fleeing and disobeying orders. The Chinese communists are very well-equipped for guerrilla operations, and are very well received by the people.

The UK has a small but very well trained and equipped army, and is the only fully-mechanized army in the world.

The Caliphate has a medium-size army that is not particularly well-equipped but is experienced and fanatic in its devotion to its cause. It is experienced in infantry tactics but short on industry to support the war effort.

The US army is small, underfunded, and generally somewhat behind technolgically and doctrinally, but American private industry has great potential.



Navy: The UK, USA, EZ, and Japan are at the top, but with different strengths. Japan has the strongest carrier force in the world, which makes it likely overall the most powerful navy in and of itself. Its pilots are well-trained and its planes very advanced for the era, while Japanese carrier doctrine is also the best in the world. EZ has the largest and most modern battleship fleet in the world, as well as perhaps the strongest submarine fleet. The UK isn't too far behind EZ and has been turning out modern battleships to replace its older units, fully the equal technologically to the newest EZ units, while it has a larger carrier arm and worldwide network of bases. The US fleet is mostly composed of older Standard-type battleships but new ships, both battleships and carriers, are in development or entering production, fully the equal of their foreign counterparts, especially the carriers.

The Caliphate has a modest navy purchase from EZ, composed of old Italian ships sold after Italy's annexation but a new supplementary fleet is under construction in EZ and due to be handed over. This will add a modern series of ships but does not include aircraft carriers, although the fleet is only expected to operate within range of land-based air power anyway.

France has a medium-sized navy, much smaller than EZ or the UK but technologically equal, especially in lighter combatants. Most of France's battleships are obsolete but new classes are entering service. France is far behind in carrier doctrine and development, however. Properly played, France can make the Mediterranean a contested theater against the EZ Mediterranean assets, particularly if supported by the Royal Navy.

Colombia's fleet of overhauled battleships from Germany is much stronger than any of its Latin American neighbors, enough so that it could probably take on all the other navies of the continent combined. It can also contest portions of the US Navy but not all at once. It has a decent battleship force but is behind in carrier development.

The Soviet Navy has only a handful of obsolete battleships, no carriers, and a small cruiser/destroyer force. It has an acceptable submarine arm, but is severely hampered by its lack of useful ports in Europe, with the northern ports freezing over in winter and the Black Sea ports and Leningrad both boxed in by enemies.

China has almost no navy to speak of, aside from a few small gunboats.



Air Force: EZ has the best fighter force in the world, although it is focused on high-speed, relatively lightly-armed fighters, and is thus relatively bad at attacking bombers. The Luftwaffe also has a very strong dive-bombing and tactical bomber arm, designed to support armored formations in the advance. It is, however, particularly deficient in strategic bombers. Europan planes can be characterized by their speed and advanced engineering, but often at the expense of over-complication, although new designs are under way to bring a measure of robustness to the force. Coupled with its size and training, it is overall possibly the best in the world, although it is not unchallenged.

France is deficient in fighters to match EZ and has trouble manufacturing sufficient numbers, but is more developed in strategic bombers. Pilot training is good but there are far fewer planes than in the Luftwaffe fighter arm. Its strategic bombing arm at present is not much better than EZ's, but is working to put newer models in to service, and will likely do so before EZ's new strategic bombers are introduced.

The UK has a very good fighter force, with planes of excellent quality although with a few glaring defects. Its pilot training is also excellent, but with Britain's strapped finances, the RAF isn't very large. However, the British manufacturing industry is far more efficient than France's, enabling it to rapidly ramp up production in the event of a conflict. The British also possess a growing strategic bombing arm, and a very well-developed maritime patrol arm.

The US is somewhat of a sleeping giant. Private companies have developed a whole slew of new inventions, including the most powerful and robust aero engines in the world. But the current Army Air Force has been relatively conservative, and is still flying relatively outdated aircraft. American planes are characterized by their robustness at the cost of performance. While slower than their opponents, and less agile, they are much more survivable, and often better armed. The US also has a developing bomber industry, and coupled with its private sector accomplishments, is poised to develop the best bomber arm in the world.

The Soviet Air Force is much like EZ's, focused on tactical support with light bombers and fast fighters. It is somewhat underdeveloped at present though due to lack of investment. It has a mediocre and not terribly successful heavy bomber arm.

The Caliphate's air force is a mixed bag. It has very competent but somewhat lightly armed fighters, an average patrol bomber arm, but a relatively weak tactical and nonexistent strategic bombing arm. It is largely reliant on imports from other countries, primarily EZ. As it has focused primarily on fighting the British in a single area, it is geared toward local air superiority, suitable due to its relatively low numbers.

Japan's air force is also a mixed bag. It has an excellent fighter force, relying on its well-trained pilots plus the most maneuverable aircraft in the world, at the expense of survivability. It has an excellent naval bomber arm, capable of challenging fleets at sea (as historically demonstrated in the attack on Force Z), but is short on strategic bombing.

USSR has best military, because the revolution demands it. Anyone who says otherwise gets sent to gulag.

But in all seriousness, so much of my military is bad right now. Luckily have good tanks and excellent ground-attack and fighter aircraft coming up shortly.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Don't forget, USSR, you have some kickass experienced officers from the Civil War. Maybe even some troops.

[Delsola]

Would EZ be okay with reactionary anti-Romanian militias popping up?

That would depend on the sort and their strength. Street gang-like militias, like the early SA would not draw that much attention. Where possible obviously the authorities would try to tamp down on street trouble, but they wouldn't pursue too far. But if it turns into a large, tightly organized, and more importantly heavily armed militia, like the later SA, then there would be definite issues. This would be especially true if any overt ties to a political party exist.

It would be a political faction, but a fringe one with unclear final objectives as in the Munich-era National Socialists.

[The Chartered Colonies of Old Dominion]

One more thing I would add as far as airpower is that both France and the EZ have really excellent medium bomber forces, with the Amiot 354 for France and the HE 111 for Europa. The Amiot 354 is faster than the HE 111, but the Heinkel can carry twice the bomb load. The Stuka of course gives the Europans a big tactical advantage, since the French don't have any purpose built dive-bombers, (during the real-life Battle of France, the French used seaplanes. They were surprisingly effective, but certainly not enough to turn the tide. The presence of the Stukas was decisive in halting the French attempts to make flanking attacks on Guderian with their remaining tank forces).

[Redemption-America]

Don't forget, USSR, you have some kickass experienced officers from the Civil War. Maybe even some troops.

That too. I'm assuming my army is rather effectively led, considering Stalin's Purges never happened, because no Stalin. Trotsky probably had a decent number executed, but nowhere near Stalin's numbers.

Problem is actually getting my army somewhere, keeping it supplied, and replacing losses..... all three of which are being worked on, thankfully.

[Altito Asmoro]

What will happen when we reach 1940? Will a full scale war will starts between factions?

[The Akasha Colony]

What will happen when we reach 1940? Will a full scale war will starts between factions?

Not necessarily. There's nothing set to specifically happen. If Old Dominion feels France is ready by then, then France will start its war. If it's not, the wait continues.

[Altito Asmoro]

Hmm, so EZ is not the most powerful in terms of military. Neither with French too.

[The Akasha Colony]

Hmm, so EZ is not the most powerful in terms of military. Neither with French too.

I just went through how there is no simple answer to that question. Altogether, EZ is probably the single most powerful military, but it's also surrounded by most of the other top military powers.

[Alleniana]

Hmm, so EZ is not the most powerful in terms of military. Neither with French too.

I just went through how there is no simple answer to that question. Altogether, EZ is probably the single most powerful military, but it's also surrounded by most of the other top military powers.

It has to be to survive.

[The Knockout Gun Gals]

DPC is screwed, right?

[Alleniana]

DPC is screwed, right?

Not totally, but I'm not in a good position either. I may be able to survive... sort of.

[Aden Protectorate]

APPLICATION
NS Nation Name:Aden Protectorate
Desired 1939 RP Nation:Mexico9could it include the rest of Central America if no its ok)
RP Sample:*http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=232532
Why do you want to be this nation?:**Is alot of Tacos a good reason?

[Alleniana]

APPLICATION
NS Nation Name:Aden Protectorate
Desired 1939 RP Nation:Mexico9could it include the rest of Central America if no its ok)
RP Sample:*http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=232532
Why do you want to be this nation?:**Is alot of Tacos a good reason?

What's the Aden Protectorate? I thought Aden was in Arabia...

[Great Houses of Xie]

Who sold tthe dpc tthe pplanes?

Also, i was reading tthrough hubei's history to figure stuff out. Turns out tthe kmt burnt down much of hhubei on ttheir way out to prevent the japanese from making use of anything, which means the dpc probably doesn't aactually have any industry. At least, nothing to make things like aarmored tractors. Mebbe some small-time industry, so small arms on limited scale. It also brings up the question of how the ddpc intends to pay for anything, as, with its destroyed industry, it doesn't have much to offer.

[Altito Asmoro]

Who sold tthe dpc tthe pplanes?

Also, i was reading tthrough hubei's history to figure stuff out. Turns out tthe kmt burnt down much of hhubei on ttheir way out to prevent the japanese from making use of anything, which means the dpc probably doesn't aactually have any industry. At least, nothing to make things like aarmored tractors. Mebbe some small-time industry, so small arms on limited scale. It also brings up the question of how the ddpc intends to pay for anything, as, with its destroyed industry, it doesn't have much to offer.

Not me. Maybe he stole some from your hangars?

[Alleniana]

So basically, I have literally nothing? When did they burn it anyway? I bet most of China got burnt down, looted, destroyed or devastated in some way at some time in the war.

Anyway, I was figuring that it's kinda hard to stop planes existing in China for 40 years after their invention, so I assumed there mgith eb one or two I could copy, or at least designs.

[The Akasha Colony]

So basically, I have literally nothing? When did they burn it anyway? I bet most of China got burnt down, looted, destroyed or devastated in some way at some time in the war.

Anyway, I was figuring that it's kinda hard to stop planes existing in China for 40 years after their invention, so I assumed there mgith eb one or two I could copy, or at least designs.

It would have been around a year to two years ago that fighting first came to that province, but it never left since that's actually near the front line of the conflict between Japan and the Chinese factions. Much of China was burnt, but not all of it; in particular, the KMT's eventual base in south-central China around Chongqing was relatively well-developed (by Chinese standards) but never conquered by the Japanese. Occasionally bombed, but the Japanese never had a particularly noteworthy strategic bombing arm, so nothing really happened.

Not like China in total has that much industry anyway. A lot of it was focused in the north, around Shanghai, Beijing, and Nanjing, now all captured by the Japanese. Some was focused in the south, but the Japanese struck there as well and seized cities such as Guangdong and eventually Hong Kong.

Planes exist where there is a need for them to exist and sufficient infrastructure. While it is possible the DPC might have found a small handful of old biplanes lying around, the manufacture of high-end warplanes useful in 1930s-1940s era combat is difficult even for fully-developed nations (EZ has had bottlenecks with certain aero engines while France has had issues with the entire process).

[Alleniana]

So basically, I have literally nothing? When did they burn it anyway? I bet most of China got burnt down, looted, destroyed or devastated in some way at some time in the war.

Anyway, I was figuring that it's kinda hard to stop planes existing in China for 40 years after their invention, so I assumed there mgith eb one or two I could copy, or at least designs.

It would have been around a year to two years ago that fighting first came to that province, but it never left since that's actually near the front line of the conflict between Japan and the Chinese factions. Much of China was burnt, but not all of it; in particular, the KMT's eventual base in south-central China around Chongqing was relatively well-developed (by Chinese standards) but never conquered by the Japanese. Occasionally bombed, but the Japanese never had a particularly noteworthy strategic bombing arm, so nothing really happened.

Not like China in total has that much industry anyway. A lot of it was focused in the north, around Shanghai, Beijing, and Nanjing, now all captured by the Japanese. Some was focused in the south, but the Japanese struck there as well and seized cities such as Guangdong and eventually Hong Kong.

Planes exist where there is a need for them to exist and sufficient infrastructure. While it is possible the DPC might have found a small handful of old biplanes lying around, the manufacture of high-end warplanes useful in 1930s-1940s era combat is difficult even for fully-developed nations (EZ has had bottlenecks with certain aero engines while France has had issues with the entire process).

Yes, I was just using a couple of old biplanes and stuff.

[Great Houses of Xie]

The Battle of Wuhan, the capitol of Hubei and the, until recently, temporary capitol of the KMT, took place June to October of 1938. After the KMT lost the battle, they retreated, burning quite a bit in their path and around the area in accordance with the "trading space for time" doctrine. Such a move was quite unpopular and helped eventually lead to the KMT's demise against the CCP.

Couple of old biplanes? OK.

[Alleniana]

The Battle of Wuhan, the capitol of Hubei and the, until recently, temporary capitol of the KMT, took place June to October of 1938. After the KMT lost the battle, they retreated, burning quite a bit in their path and around the area in accordance with the "trading space for time" doctrine. Such a move was quite unpopular and helped eventually lead to the KMT's demise against the CCP.

Couple of old biplanes? OK.

Hmm. That would leave not many KMT in the area, since they retreated and they were killed a fair bit, not to mention me being there.

[Great Houses of Xie]

The reason they retreated was to preserve the bulk of their force. Of a force of originally 1.1 million men, they suffered 200,000 casualties.

No, there wouldn't be much KMT there. That's why I, as already pointed out a number of times before, stated that while the existence of the DPC is possible, the extent to which you think it has developed is definitely not possible. It's doubtful there'd be any planes left, as those would have been appropriated by the KMT for use against the Japanese or destroyed, as per scorched earth.

[Post War America]

Alright, got one thing to do before posting. If there is anything that I specifically should know about before posting, please tell me now.