Aftermath II (Discussion / Invite only.)

[Olthenia]

Okay, guys. This is it. I finally have some spare time on my hands, and I've decided not to put this off any further.

Aftermath II.

We need to take another crack at it, and we need to do it right. That's only going to happen if we all pull together though. If I'm going to OP another thread, I'll need - and crave - your ideas and input. So, if any of you are at least remotely interested, give me a shout. You know who you are.

Right now, the main challenge I'm facing with creating Aftermath II is finding a suitable map. It should be a map large enough to accomodate at least five city-state sized factions and preferably contain some kind of coastline.

Think North or South Carolina, and you won't be far wrong.

Your thoughts?

[Esternial]

Finally!

Bam.

[Of The Arch ilands]

You know im always going to be in on this

Dibs on Greater Harlington! We all know in the end you all formed around Upperville!

Also because Aftermath II is at the point where communities are in the hundreds in alot of cases the Aftermath System does need tweaking. If we can take both the original system that Esternial has graciously refined and posted up and my own attempt to refined it (Here) we should be able to come up with a pretty in-depth set of rules and so on. Also whats wrong with the map I came up with? lol

[Olthenia]

Esternial! Arch! Welcome. It's great to have you aboard.

I like what you've done with the rules, Esternial. Nice work. Arch may have a point though. Whatever set of rules we wind up with will need to be tweaked to accomodate Aftermath's new scale. I would like players in Aftermath II to take on not just gangs, but post-apocalyptic city-states. The rules will need to reflect that.

Arch, I didn't know you had suggested a map! Are you referring to the one in the link in your last post?

EDIT: I'll post a list of some of the maps i've been considering shortly.

[Olthenia]

Map #1

Map #2

Map #3

[Esternial]

Esternial! Arch! Welcome. It's great to have you aboard.

I like what you've done with the rules, Esternial. Nice work. Arch may have a point though. Whatever set of rules we wind up with will need to be tweaked to accomodate Aftermath's new scale. I would like players in Aftermath II to take on not just gangs, but post-apocalyptic city-states. The rules will need to reflect that.

Arch, I didn't know you had suggested a map! Are you referring to the one in the link in your last post?

EDIT: I'll post a list of some of the maps i've been considering shortly.

Well, if we're upping the scale we certainly can't keep working with the old weapons system. We can keep the unit squads, but we'll need to do something about the population and perhaps add some more buildings that fit in a 'nation' like a fully fledged hospital and soforth.

EDIT: And I'll work on those rules a bit

[Olthenia]

True that, Est. The weapons system will get too micro manage-y. Fast.

Oh, man. A field hospital in Aftermath will probably look like something out of a horror movie. Amputated limbs, surgeons in blood-spattered brahmin hide aprons, and tight-lipped nurses sewing up cuts and gashes with bone needles and gecko-gut thread.

[Esternial]

True that, Est. The weapons system will get too micro manage-y. Fast.

Oh, man. A field hospital in Aftermath will probably look like something out of a horror movie. Amputated limbs, surgeons in blood-spattered brahmin hide aprons, and tight-lipped nurses sewing up cuts and gashes with bone needles and gecko-gut thread.

Maybe we could allow people to construct certain buildings *outside* their territory?

Like change an abandoned school into a field hospital and a power station into a droid recharging station?

And maybe allow people to restore factories to produce supplies/materials/fuel?

[Olthenia]

Perhaps.

Ashur, Lord of The Pitt, restored a ruined steel mill to working condition in the Fallout 3 DLC The Pitt. I can't see why technicians from a player faction shouldn't be able to follow his example.

[Of The Arch ilands]

Perhaps.

Ashur, Lord of The Pitt, restored a ruined steel mill to working condition in the Fallout 3 DLC The Pitt. I can't see why technicians from a player faction shouldn't be able to follow his example.

I kinda repaired the Anacosta mega mall >_> if you count boarding up the windows as repairing :3. Oth I was referring to the map I had in the post in the link, I mean we dont have to use it but its not all that hard to come up with a map with a bit of coastline and such it doesn't need to be anything spectacular and because we are upping the scale I think it should take longer to traverse through grid squares and such. just so people arnt crossing a map that's meant to represent 250 miles (or w.e you want it to be) in a couple of turns.

[Olthenia]

I kinda repaired purged the Anacosta mega mall of its unholy taint.

Fixed.

[Esternial]

Pasted here for reference, will make edits in this post as well
Red text are things we might have to discuss

The Aftermath system

This system relies partly on a steady basis of number-crunching, something that isn’t put away for everyone. If you aren’t prepared to invest an average five or ten minutes in your post, calculating resources and soforth, don’t bother signing up. You have to be capable of managing this RP, so know your own limits.

Turn-based

---

Each posts counts as a turn, which means that you have to wait for your fellow participants to post before you can do the same. This is why everyone has to stay committed to this RP, because we aren’t going to have everyone else wait because one or two people can’t post. Note that the time between two turns is around 2 months, so when you post, you can describe what your people have done during that time and are going to do. We value creativity and effort, which may or may not be reflected in bonuses.

Each turn will be introduced by a post by (one of) the OP(s), detailing information about what happened to your people. WE determine how a scouting mission or anything else turns out.

Note: You can explore or move through three or four sectors each turn with your units.

In your post, you can RP with people in your nation, like a higher-in-command.
For an example of a post, BE SURE TO CHECK THIS LINK.

Resources, buildings & units

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You can compare this to a turn-based strategy game, because basically that’s what this is. Each turn your faction receives resources for any kind of resource category. These resources are what keep your faction running; allows you to build structures, recruit units and bargain with NPC’s. Each turn YOU will be required to crunch the numbers and calculate your income, subtract the expenditures for building/training, upkeep, etc. and determine the net income which you may then add to your existing resource pool. As mentioned before, see the example. I really want you to have viewed at least some.

Population

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You'll be in charge of your own city-state, so maintaining a decent population will be likely. Remember that a post-apocalyptic lifestyle is still a merge fragment of its former self, which means that all the people that live inside your borders are facing the daily struggle for survival, fighting off disease, crime, thirst and hunger. Some groups might stick to the credo of survival of the fittest, throwing out the weak into the wasteland to die on their own and maintaining a small but fit population; while others may resemble societies that vaguely resemble that of the past, with every man, woman and child contributing to it. Have your population reflect this. A population of 10.000 would be a solid maximum, and we'd prefer if you even go beneath this number rather than just take the maximum.
In terms of your armed forces, the following rules will count:
- Only one third of your population will be free for training, while the rest takes part in maintaining the infrastructure and keeping things running.
- Each unit consists of about 20 people.

Plus it’s a nice idea to leave a few units back home for defensive purposes. Know that we will consider assaulting your base with a horde of NPC ghouls if we feel like it.

Technology

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Unlike the previous edition, your faction will be an entire city-state, allowing some more access to conventional weaponry. But let’s be honest here, no way can your forces be equipped with powerful, durable or experimental weaponry. You’ll start with basic weaponry, but luckily you can find means of upgrading your unit loadout and even discover special weaponry. Laser and plasma weaponry is rare, of course; that speaks for itself. Remember that you need more than guns to survive. Medicine and water are in dire need, and finding ways to purify that water would indubitably give you an advantage.

Mutations & Radiation

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Fiction brings us an original understanding of the term. Enhanced strength, green skin and useful new limbs at places you’d never expect; you’d wonder why we don’t give every baby a healthy dose of it. Of course, we did; but sadly out children didn’t just grow an unusually big brain. If the world has been destroyed by a nuclear holocaust, you should ask yourself why the human population has suddenly plummeted without any excessive destruction in our cities. Radiation is lethal, with the exception of ghouls and mutants, so keep that in mind.

Note: All water supplies are contaminated as well, but as long as you keep a moderate supply of pure water your population should be able to survive by switching between both options.

Resources

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The resources categories in this RP are as followed:

1.) Materials
A general term for all kinds of junk-of-the-more-or-less-useful kind, materials are needed for building, making weapons, armor or other objects. It’s the most easy to find, considering that people have gotten much less picky of which kind of screw they’re using to keep that fence standing between them and a gang of mindless ghouls.

2.) Fuel
The rarest resource around, fuel is used to keep generators running and – if you can spare it – allows you to move vehicles around the wasteland. Moving around in style is costly, and if you’re already complaining about gas prices you’re not going to be too happy.

3.) Supplies
Food, clean water and medicine that keeps your population happy. Depending on your population, you’ll lose some supplies each turn. For our convenience, every 5 people in your faction demand an additional 5 supplies.

Example: If you have 100 people in your faction you’ll have to pay 100 supplies each turn, which means you earn 200 supplies every turn, taking into account your income.

Note: The low upkeep advantage that comes with a lower population also comes with the downside of a lower unit limit. In our example, 50% of your people means 50 of your population will be free to venture out or guard your home, resulting in a limit of 10 units.

Stuff you need to remember at all costs

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• 33% of your population is free to venture out or guard your home.
• For each group of 5 people in your population, you need to pay 5 supplies in upkeep each turn.
• When submitting your population, stay with a number dividable by 5 (eg. 25, 65, 80)
• People that don’t do so won’t get admitted, because not reading this probably means you’re not going to make an effort of your posts either.

Faction Types

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1.) Raiders
Raiders are any group of wastelanders who pillage, plunder, murder, or otherwise ruin the day of anyone unfortunate enough to not be one of them. If there were still laws, they'd be outlaws. Raiders tend to organize into loose confederations of gangs in the post-apocalyptic wasteland and are a constant problem, because it's much easier for them to just shoot people for their money, food, and other valuables than to earn an honest living.

Raiders more than often partake in slavery, using them to make their own lives more comfortable than anyone else’s

2.) Tribals
Tribal refers to the name given to rural inhabitants by those still living in urban areas. They have shrugged off many modern ways of living, and returned to a simpler hunter-gatherer mentality. Tribals often look upon the traders and occupants of cities with disdain, viewing their way of life as "scavenging the dying corpse of the old world." Despite the fact that tribals are generally healthier and in better physical condition than their urban-dwelling countrymen, they are viewed with disdain and often hostility.

Tribals, compared to other factions, have more proficiency with makeshift weaponry, but still use technology for their own means.

3.) Remnants
Umbrella term for anyone trying to pick up the pieces of pre-war society and find their place in the wasteland. Their main difference with Tribals is that they remain dependent of the remnant of urban society and it’s structures. Whether a town of like-minded civilians, a government-sponsored scientific community or a military organization trying to restore order, all of them are remnants of the old-world.

Remnants are familiar with technology of the past, although they lack some of the know-how and advantage the other two factions possess.

Buildings

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Combat Buildings:

• Training Fields (1,000 Materials) (for Tribals: Fighting Pits)
Trains basic units
• Barracks (2,500 Materials)
Trains advanced units
• Armory (2,500 Materials; 1,000 Supplies)
Tier 1 Upgrades, All Warrior units gain +1 Combat
• Arsenal [ADV] (2,000 Materials; 1,500 Supplies)
Tier 2 Upgrades, All Warrior units gain +1 Combat
• Robotics Bay [ADV] (3,500 Materials; 2,000 Fuel; 2,000 Supplies)
Requires “Robco Archives”
Trains Robot unit

Faction specific:
• Kennels (750 Materials; 500 Supplies) [Tribals, Raiders]
Train Rabid Dogs
Adds +1 Defense
• Fighting Pits (1,000 Materials) [Tribals]
Trains basic units
Trains Hunters
Adds +1 Combat
• Garage [ADV] (1,500 Materials; 1,000 Fuel, 500 Supplies) [Remnants]
Allows you to repair and maintain vehicles found during your scavenging trips.

Note: Only the OP gets to determine whether you find a vehicle you can still use.

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Base Upgrades:
(each level requires the previous to be unlocked, so you need Outpost before you can upgrade it into a Fort)
• Outpost (1,000 Materials; 500 Supplies)
Adds +1 Defense
• Fort (1,500 Materials; 100 Fuel; 600 Supplies)
Adds +2 Defense
• Holdfast (2,100 Materials; 500 Fuel; 600 Supplies)
Adds +3 Defense
• Stronghold [ADV] (3,000 Materials; 1,000 Fuel; 1,200 Supplies)
Adds +4 Defense
• Fortress [ADV] (5,000 Materials; 2,000 Fuel; 2,000 Supplies)
Adds +5 Defense

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Defense Buildings:
(All Defense Buildings are cumulative)
• Debris Wall (500 Materials)
Adds +1 Defense
• Corrugated Steel Wall (1000 Materials)
Adds +2 Defense
• Guard Towers (1200 Materials)
Adds +1 Defense

Faction specific:
• MG Guard Towers (500 Materials) [Remnants]
Upgrades Guard Towers; adds +1 Defense

---

Science Buildings:
• Archives (5,200 Materials; 300 Fuel; 800 Supplies)
Ability to construct advanced buildings [ADV]
• Laboratory [ADV] (6,000 Materials; 1,500 Fuel; 500 Supplies)
Requires “Research Center”
Energy Specialization unlocked.

Faction specific:
• Slave Pens (1,500 Materials) [Raiders]
Construction times reduced
Trains Slavers

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Additional Buildings:
• Fuel Depot (1,500 Materials)
Earns +50 Fuel each turn
• Water Treatment Plant [ADV] (1,500 Materials; 500 Fuel; 500 Supplies)
Steady Water supply: Daily Supplies Cost -50%
• Animal Ranch (Increases your storage cap by 2000) (2,000 Materials; 500 Supplies)
+100 Supplies income
• Clinic [ADV] (2,200 Materials; 600 Fuel; 2,000 Supplies)
+ Medical assistance

Faction specific:
• Farm (2,000 Materials) [Tribals]
Earns +100 Supplies each turn
• Bazaar (2,000 Supplies, 500 Materials) [Remnants]
Earns +200 Supplies each turn
• Steel Mill [ADV] (5,000 Materials) [Raiders]
Earns +400 Materials each turn

---

Special Structures(cannot be built, only found)
• Robco Archives
Unlocks “Robotics Bay”
• Library
Functions as Archives
• Hospital
Functions as Clinic
• Research Center
Unlocks “Energy Weapons”

Units

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Basic units
• Scavenger (200 Supplies)
Movement: 1
Combat: 0
Scavenge: 2
Income: 50 Materials, 5 Fuel, 25 Supplies
----------------------------------
Upgrade to Caravan (500 Supplies)
Movement: 1
Combat: 1
Scavenge: 3
Income: 200 of one resource of choice

• Hunter (250 Supplies) Requires “Fighting Pits”
Movement: 1
Combat: 1
Scavenge: 2
Income: 50 Materials, 5 Fuel, 50 Supplies
----------------------------------
Upgrade to Pathfinder (500 Supplies)
Movement: 2
Combat: 2
Scavenge: 4
Income: 50 Materials, 5 Fuel, 50 Supplies

• Slaver (250 Supplies) Requires “Slave Pen”
Movement: 1
Combat: 1
Scavenge: 2
Income: 75 Materials, 10 Fuel, 0 Supplies
----------------------------------
Upgrade to Slavemaster (500 Supplies)
Movement: 1
Combat: 3
Income: 150 Materials, 50 Fuel

• Militia (150 Supplies)
Movement: 1
Combat: 1
Scavenge: 1

---

Advanced units
• Light Infantry (200 Supplies)
Movement: 1
Combat: 2
Scavenge: 1
----------------------
Upgrade to Mercenary (350 Supplies) (Tier 1)
Movement: 1
Combat: 3
Scavenge: 0
----------------------------------
Upgrade to Sniper (450 Supplies) (Tier 2)
Movement: 1
Combat: 3
Scavenge: 1
+ Sniper perk
- Does not combine with Energy Weapons

• Heavy Infantry (300 Supplies)
Movement: 1
Combat: 3
Scavenge: 1
----------------------------------
Upgrade to Assault (Tier 1)
Movement: 1
Combat: 4
Scavenge: 1
----------------------------------
Upgrade to Pyro (Tier 2)
Movement: 1
Combat: 4
Scavenge: 0
+ Pyromaniac perk
- Upkeep: 5 Fuel

• Protectron (500 Materials) Requires “Robotics Bay”
Movement: 1
Combat: 3
Scavenge: 0
- Upkeep: 30 Fuel
----------------------------------
Upgrade to Sentry Bot
Movement: 1
Combat: 5
Scavenge: 0
+ Rocket Launcher
- Upkeep: 80 Fuel

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Wasteland Perks

---

• Upgrade Kits
One of the purchasable upgraded, for free.

• Power-Armored Boyscouts
Your men have discovered a cache of pre-war Power armor suits. You can give this armor to 2 of your units, yielding them a bonus in battle. Too bad Super Mutants can't fit in them, but they'll function as scrap metal as well!

Allows you to upgrade two units, adding the prefix Power-Armored (Human, Ghoul)
(example: Power-Armored Assault unit)

• Eye CU
A stray eyebot crossed your path, and your unit managed to seize it. It’s almost out of juice and pretty battered, so it’ll only go a short distance, but it might give you some intel before it shorts out.

Allows you to scout an adjacent area

• FEV Fanatic
It seems like somebody misplaced his barrel of FEV! Any mutant faction will be able to recruit 3 units with no additional costs, as long as they manage to capture a few living specimens. Ghouls will remain unaffected and humans, well, let's just say one of your units isn't coming home for dinner.

+3 Militia Units (Mutants), -1 Random Unit (Humans)

[Of The Arch ilands]

I kinda repaired purged the Anacosta mega mall of its unholy taint.

Fixed.

I dont like them muties okay everyone's gotta have a hobby

Also the biggest problem with the Aftermath system is it does just become number crunching. We need a way to encourage RPing the events you want to happen. I did suggest to Olth that we give small bonus's to the tasks people do if they RP them going about those tasks if you get me nothing major i mean if some one lets says RPs a small snippet about some one rummaging through some stuff trying to scavenge some useful things I think we should give them a bit of a boost to reward them for doing so maybe a few extra resources or if your feeling really generous something that can help out their nation.

Also what about stats for vehicles?

[Esternial]

Fixed.

I dont like them muties okay everyone's gotta have a hobby

Also the biggest problem with the Aftermath system is it does just become number crunching. We need a way to encourage RPing the events you want to happen. I did suggest to Olth that we give small bonus's to the tasks people do if they RP them going about those tasks if you get me nothing major i mean if some one lets says RPs a small snippet about some one rummaging through some stuff trying to scavenge some useful things I think we should give them a bit of a boost to reward them for doing so maybe a few extra resources or if your feeling really generous something that can help out their nation.

Also what about stats for vehicles?

I haven't really thought about vehicles, let alone stats.

I think we shouldn't really put stats on vehicles. People can find broken down cars, maybe tanks; fix 'em up and modify them.

[Olthenia]

I'm not sure we need to bring up stats for vehicles just yet. The fact is, I'd like Aftermath to be as rules free as possible. Innovation and creativity should be what drives this game forward. Not numbers and how you crunch them. Back in the original Aftermath, I included resources and stats to ensure the game made sense. How do you keep a player from bringing in an army or a fortress out of thin air? Simple. Make the rules say otherwise.

Now, if this is going to happen, I think it'd be best if we just put down a few simple rules and went from there. If a player ever got to a point where fielding vehicles became an issue, we'd deal with it. Same with vertibirds or robots.

Also, about the maps. Arch? You're right when you say that throwing up a half-decent map with a bit of coastline isn't all that difficult. The difficult part is making sure that map isn't just a great white desert. A thing I liked about the map in Aftermath I one was the level of detail. There were rivers, roads, airports and urban areas. Something to help your imagination along. That is my main problem with both the map in your link, Arch, and Map #1 in my post the other day. They're both white, featureless deserts.

Now, the other two maps? From Fallout 3 and F:NV? They have details a'plenty. What they also have is history. We know what those maps are about, and we know their relative scale. If we wind up using any of those maps, we'll be running around in the same places we did in their respective games. Do we really want that?

And Arch, as for what you said about the roleplaying versus rules-mongering? You're right, and I like the way you think. From now on, if someone actually makes an effort to roleplay what their characters do I'll probably be inclined to give them a bonus. This is a roleplaying game. The rules should be there to make sure things stay fair; not be the game's main focus.

[Of The Arch ilands]

I'm not sure we need to bring up stats for vehicles just yet. The fact is, I'd like Aftermath to be as rules free as possible. Innovation and creativity should be what drives this game forward. Not numbers and how you crunch them. Back in the original Aftermath, I included resources and stats to ensure the game made sense. How do you keep a player from bringing in an army or a fortress out of thin air? Simple. Make the rules say otherwise.

Now, if this is going to happen, I think it'd be best if we just put down a few simple rules and went from there. If a player ever got to a point where fielding vehicles became an issue, we'd deal with it. Same with vertibirds or robots.

Also, about the maps. Arch? You're right when you say that throwing up a half-decent map with a bit of coastline isn't all that difficult. The difficult part is making sure that map isn't just a great white desert. A thing I liked about the map in Aftermath I one was the level of detail. There were rivers, roads, airports and urban areas. Something to help your imagination along. That is my main problem with both the map in your link, Arch, and Map #1 in my post the other day. They're both white, featureless deserts.

Now, the other two maps? From Fallout 3 and F:NV? They have details a'plenty. What they also have is history. We know what those maps are about, and we know their relative scale. If we wind up using any of those maps, we'll be running around in the same places we did in their respective games. Do we really want that?

And Arch, as for what you said about the roleplaying versus rules-mongering? You're right, and I like the way you think. From now on, if someone actually makes an effort to roleplay what their characters do I'll probably be inclined to give them a bonus. This is a roleplaying game. The rules should be there to make sure things stay fair; not be the game's main focus.

I really dont want to be running around on establish maps because people will in the end go about claiming the factions that exist on that map and that isnt what our aftermath is about. or at least I didnt think it was with the first one. I think we need to to take maybe a snippet from Googlemaps and edit it or we make our own from scratch.

As for rules im inclined to agree Aftermath became overly complicated in the end. But then again any other role playing game (Traveller, D&D and so on) have massive rule books with lots of rules and other stuff. What we created isnt far from them tbh except we could have fitted it into a 5 page rule book lol. if we are going to role back the rules a little i think we should take it back to the bare bones essentially mark out why people cant make a fortress in a turn and go from there really. This way people arnt constrained by using specific units and stuff but rather letting them build and sculpt there own with a set of rules that outline futherest they can take something if you get what i mean?

[Itailian Maifias]

Hell yes, it's my favorite post-apocalyptic roleplay! Time to break mah tribals out of the closest, since we all know they kicked your azzes in Round 1

Personally, I'll leave the stat and detail discussion to the rest of ya'll, but i would personally either keep it as low detail as Aftermath I's was, with maybe some tweaking.

Also, I think we should use Map 3, spread out settlements could definitely play to our advantage.

[Olthenia]

Itailian! Welcome!

Map #3, huh? Alright. Unless Arch and Est have any strong preferences otherwise, I think we could adapt the old F3 map to our needs with a minimum of tweaking. This is going to happen, one way or another. We will have an Aftermath II.

Now, before I head back to class there is just one thing we should talk about, if that’s alright. I’ve been thinking quite a bit lately about something we can all relate to. Something that is unquestionably, inescapably, Fallout.

I am referring of course, to radscorpion prostitution.

I will NOT tolerate this in my thread, understand? It is immoral and unsafe and you simply don't know where those things have been!

So long.

[Of The Arch ilands]

i really really dont want to use an established cannon map people will just be lazy and claim established cannon factions

[Esternial]

i really really dont want to use an established cannon map people will just be lazy and claim established cannon factions

I agree with this, but using a *canon* map would be easier.

[Of The Arch ilands]

i really really dont want to use an established cannon map people will just be lazy and claim established cannon factions

I agree with this, but using a *canon* map would be easier.

if we take the easy way out we encourage others to take that same route when making their faction.

[Esternial]

I agree with this, but using a *canon* map would be easier.

if we take the easy way out we encourage others to take that same route when making their faction.

As I said, I agree ^-^

[Esternial]

What would be a good standard population?

EDIT: And maximum/minimum?

[Olthenia]

A good standard population would be somewhere between 2000 to and 4000. The absolute maximum would be 6000, while the bare minimum is somewhere around 1500. Any less than that, and you're really just a nuisance rather than a proper faction.

I'm working on the map as we speak, guys. Hang in there.

[Esternial]

A good standard population would be somewhere between 2000 to and 4000. The absolute maximum would be 6000, while the bare minimum is somewhere around 1500. Any less than that, and you're really just a nuisance rather than a proper faction.

I'm working on the map as we speak, guys. Hang in there.

Okey, now I'll be able to adapt the population topic.

How about units? Keep the 5 population/unit or expand to...erm...10, 20?