Those glorious days (AWRP) OOC, Semi-Closed

[Chinese Federation]

i'm only after a port, dont be so greedy

We already have a trade agreement, lol, so it doesn't matter really.

That and we don't want to have to compete with another foreign power trying to influence Asian affairs. That's our job!

well, america has alot of investment locked in asia and having them all unprotected in these turbulent times disturbs the investors. the port wont be permanent, like one of those 99 year leases similar to hong kong

[Kamchatkalia]

We already have a trade agreement, lol, so it doesn't matter really.

That and we don't want to have to compete with another foreign power trying to influence Asian affairs. That's our job!

well, america has alot of investment locked in asia and having them all unprotected in these turbulent times disturbs the investors. the port wont be permanent, like one of those 99 year leases similar to hong kong

Wait. Who are you again...? Ah, I see you're the AU. I don't see how you could win, you have all that turmoil with the CSA thing going on, which would make a decision to attack Japan questionable, at the very least.

[Chinese Federation]

well, america has alot of investment locked in asia and having them all unprotected in these turbulent times disturbs the investors. the port wont be permanent, like one of those 99 year leases similar to hong kong

Wait. Who are you again...? Ah, I see you're the AU. I don't see how you could win, you have all that turmoil with the CSA thing going on, which would make a decision to attack Japan questionable, at the very least.

im not going to attack. why would i go to that much trouble over a port? i could suspend trade links to put on pressure, but i'm not going to likely do that either. i'm hoping to work out a agreement with regional powers to get lease. but i am going to be assertive on panama, i've just invested million into the canal, and im not going to throw away such a expensive strategic investment to some hooligan junta

[Ruridova]

Scandinavia will provide refuge for the Romanian government officials; we'll send a small naval group to pick them up and they'll participate as nonvoting members of the Scandinavian government.

I'm going to write a newspaper article about them coming to Oslo now.

Wait, I mean if they argee to the terms of surrender. I don't know if they have yet.

Too late.

[Unicario]

Wait. Who are you again...? Ah, I see you're the AU. I don't see how you could win, you have all that turmoil with the CSA thing going on, which would make a decision to attack Japan questionable, at the very least.

im not going to attack. why would i go to that much trouble over a port? i could suspend trade links to put on pressure, but i'm not going to likely do that either. i'm hoping to work out a agreement with regional powers to get lease. but i am going to be assertive on panama, i've just invested million into the canal, and im not going to throw away such a expensive strategic investment to some hooligan junta

Japan will consider leasing a port in the Philippines to the United States. Not a whole city (like Hong Kong), but something. And how about instead, a 75 year lease?

[Andonam]

Maybe it would also help if we make a list of independent nations? TO help co-oridinate minor power.

[Kamchatkalia]

Wait. Who are you again...? Ah, I see you're the AU. I don't see how you could win, you have all that turmoil with the CSA thing going on, which would make a decision to attack Japan questionable, at the very least.

im not going to attack. why would i go to that much trouble over a port? i could suspend trade links to put on pressure, but i'm not going to likely do that either. i'm hoping to work out a agreement with regional powers to get lease. but i am going to be assertive on panama, i've just invested million into the canal, and im not going to throw away such a expensive strategic investment to some hooligan junta

Bad investment. If you're going to be assertive in Panama then don't expect a warm reception, this is a populistic 'hooligan junta' as you put it, antigovernment partisans and guerrillas will be popping up in the dozens. The canal as is, will be blown up by the Spaniards as it is a very vital asset to Spain, so its only logical that a desperate Spain try to stop this independent country from working, i.e. blow up what would be a valuable asset to the fledgling nation. Like I said; Bad Investment. Now this will allow me to unveil plans for the Colombian Dry Canal, a cheaper and efficient way to move goods across the Atlantic to Pacific.

[Ruridova]

im not going to attack. why would i go to that much trouble over a port? i could suspend trade links to put on pressure, but i'm not going to likely do that either. i'm hoping to work out a agreement with regional powers to get lease. but i am going to be assertive on panama, i've just invested million into the canal, and im not going to throw away such a expensive strategic investment to some hooligan junta

Bad investment. If you're going to be assertive in Panama then don't expect a warm reception, this is a populistic 'hooligan junta' as you put it, antigovernment partisans and guerrillas will be popping up in the dozens. The canal as is, will be blown up by the Spaniards as it is a very vital asset to Spain, so its only logical that a desperate Spain try to stop this independent country from working, i.e. blow up what would be a valuable asset to the fledgling nation. Like I said; Bad Investment. Now this will allow me to unveil plans for the Colombian Dry Canal, a cheaper and efficient way to move goods across the Atlantic to Pacific.

Should Scandinavia sent its navy to protect the Panama Canal?

[Kamchatkalia]

Bad investment. If you're going to be assertive in Panama then don't expect a warm reception, this is a populistic 'hooligan junta' as you put it, antigovernment partisans and guerrillas will be popping up in the dozens. The canal as is, will be blown up by the Spaniards as it is a very vital asset to Spain, so its only logical that a desperate Spain try to stop this independent country from working, i.e. blow up what would be a valuable asset to the fledgling nation. Like I said; Bad Investment. Now this will allow me to unveil plans for the Colombian Dry Canal, a cheaper and efficient way to move goods across the Atlantic to Pacific.

Should Scandinavia sent its navy to protect the Panama Canal?

Assuming that you send them later on, when Spain gets desperate. You could, but I don't seem them being all to useful.

[Andonam]

Should Scandinavia sent its navy to protect the Panama Canal?

Assuming that you send them later on, when Spain gets desperate. You could, but I don't seem them being all to useful.

You try to get anything through that Canal with doznes of Viking vessels blowing up anything that gets close.

Also, travel by water is cheaper then travel by land. Your "Dry canal" would be more expensive, not to mention involve investing in something to do a task you already have the infastructure to do perfectly well.

And, of course, if Scandinavia gets involved, we get involved. And Mesoamerica gets involved; Angery Aztecs attacking Colombia...

[Chinese Federation]

im not going to attack. why would i go to that much trouble over a port? i could suspend trade links to put on pressure, but i'm not going to likely do that either. i'm hoping to work out a agreement with regional powers to get lease. but i am going to be assertive on panama, i've just invested million into the canal, and im not going to throw away such a expensive strategic investment to some hooligan junta

Bad investment. If you're going to be assertive in Panama then don't expect a warm reception, this is a populistic 'hooligan junta' as you put it, antigovernment partisans and guerrillas will be popping up in the dozens. The canal as is, will be blown up by the Spaniards as it is a very vital asset to Spain, so its only logical that a desperate Spain try to stop this independent country from working, i.e. blow up what would be a valuable asset to the fledgling nation. Like I said; Bad Investment. Now this will allow me to unveil plans for the Colombian Dry Canal, a cheaper and efficient way to move goods across the Atlantic to Pacific.

Well Spain inactive, so he can’t blow anything up. And since panama won’t be a direct part of the AU, but instead operate under a protectorate regime, I’m free to use heavy hand tactics to prevent any guerrilla movement from starting up. So until your dry canal opens up, panama is the only corridor to cross Central America

[Kamchatkalia]

You try to get anything through that Canal with doznes of Viking vessels blowing up anything that gets close.

No, I would imagine that SU would be trying to cut of Spanish supplies, so they couldn't get the explosives in >.>

Also, travel by water is cheaper then travel by land. Your "Dry canal" would be more expensive, not to mention involve investing in something to do a task you already have the infastructure to do perfectly well.

Travel by water is cheaper. Fact. Traveling by the Panama Canal is cheap. False. The highest paid toll to use the Panama Canal was $375,000, very cheap isn't it? Average: $54,000 USD, If you want to know more about their tolls go here. The Dry Canal, with including any possible expense, would cost on average $22,500 USD to cross, far cheaper than the other Canal. As is, the Panama Canal has only recently been open, it's success is relatively unseen.

And, of course, if Scandinavia gets involved, we get involved. And Mesoamerica gets involved; Angery Aztecs attacking Colombia...

[/quote]

You hold no Casus Belli, no motive, no reason, so why would you do that?

[Andonam]

You try to get anything through that Canal with doznes of Viking vessels blowing up anything that gets close.

No, I would imagine that SU would be trying to cut of Spanish supplies, so they couldn't get the explosives in >.>

Also, travel by water is cheaper then travel by land. Your "Dry canal" would be more expensive, not to mention involve investing in something to do a task you already have the infastructure to do perfectly well.

Travel by water is cheaper. Fact. Traveling by the Panama Canal is cheap. False. The highest paid toll to use the Panama Canal was $375,000, very cheap isn't it? Average: $54,000 USD, If you want to know more about their tolls go here. The Dry Canal, with including any possible expense, would cost on average $22,500 USD to cross, far cheaper than the other Canal. As is, the Panama Canal has only recently been open, it's success is relatively unseen.

And, of course, if Scandinavia gets involved, we get involved. And Mesoamerica gets involved; Angery Aztecs attacking Colombia...

You hold no Casus Belli, no motive, no reason, so why would you do that?[/quote]

Protecting the property of a sworn alley is a fairly good reason

The American's own a big share in the canal. If you want to take Spain's share, fine. But nationlize it? You bascially just destroyed billions of dollars that America had. Also; if Scandinavia does it, well, I can't exactly piss them off without losing all my naval ability, now can I? Lithuania goes back with America and Scandinavia a LONG time... if they do it, that's usually reason enough.


Also, you're assuming that America woulden't lower the price with competition. One of the reasons they could charge so much is they had a monopoly RL; it was either pay, or go around South America. With a Dry Canal and maybe even a Nigerian one, they would have to be a little less expensive.

Anyway, just let the US keep their share, and they probably won't blink an eyelash.

[Chinese Federation]

well, that is to be seen then. traveling by land provides its own difficulties and any projected benefits of a dry canal is yet unseen. realistically, the project will take decades and require millions upon millions of dollars to fund; money that the fledgling government do not have. No one would wan to invest in a expensive venture such as that while there is a functioning competitor geographically next door. This would also disregard the lack of engineers and technical know how to even begin such an ambitious project.

[Kamchatkalia]

Well Spain inactive, so he can’t blow anything up.

Spain has quit. Both Co-OP's accept the idea (the Independence of Colombia) it's only logical that a dying Spain would want to try to take the world with it.

And since panama won’t be a direct part of the AU, but instead operate under a protectorate regime, I’m free to use heavy hand tactics to prevent any guerrilla movement from starting up.

And you're free to use those tactics, what you cannot do is say "no guerrilla movement springs up herp derp" that is a godmod, which is not accepted in this RP. And do you really think you take over Panama? I mean really? This is going to be another Vietnam, you send a bunch soldiers to 'save' a nation, but you cannot save a nation that doesn't want to be saved. Do you also think that their won't be future attacks on the Canal if you take it over?

So until your dry canal opens up, panama is the only corridor to cross Central America

Not if it blows up it isn't. If it blows up the only way to get across Central America is through the Land of Crooks, it would also take around (by my estimate) 15 years to get the canal back and running, while the Dry Canal would take up 5 or so years.

[Unicario]

Japan would throw some shit at whoever blows the Canal up. The Canal, while Japan isn't happy it's... SPANISH, we think it's a very easy way to get from East Asia to Europe. Better than the old 1770's route (RURI KNOWS WHAT I TALK ABOUT)

Japan would also heavily fund a Canal restoration project, and back an Allied-intervention against whomever holds the Canal to make it a joint zone.

[Chinese Federation]

@Kamchatkalia: well Vietnam hasn't happened yet and gorilla warfare hasnt been proven ineffective until the 50s. im not saying there WONT be any gorilla movement, but i'd like to point out that american backed central american governments had a degree of success countering those movements in RL and that im not worried. besides, it doesn't hurt to try, if things turns sour, i'd just abandon the region like american in RL

[The Nuclear Fist]

@Kamchatkalia: well Vietnam hasn't happened yet and gorilla warfare hasnt been proven ineffective until the 50s. im not saying there WONT be any gorilla movement, but i'd like to point out that american backed central american governments had a degree of success countering those movements in RL and that im not worried. besides, it doesn't hurt to try, if things turns sour, i'd just abandon the region like american in RL

*guerrilla

And guerrilla warfare has never been shown to be ineffective.

[Kamchatkalia]

Protecting the property of a sworn alley is a fairly good reason

If you had said this before we wouldn't be having this conversation. You're Lithuania right?

The American's own a big share in the canal. If you want to take Spain's share, fine. But nationlize it?

If you can link to any of my post that says that I'll give you brownie points.
Otherwise, you're putting words in my mouth that I didn't say, please stop.

You bascially just destroyed billions of dollars that America had. Also; if Scandinavia does it, well, I can't exactly piss them off without losing all my naval ability, now can I? Lithuania goes back with America and Scandinavia a LONG time... if they do it, that's usually reason enough.

I'M destroying billions of dollars? Spain is blowing up the Canal, not me, so why you're saying I'm destroying billions of dollars is confusing to me.

Also, you're assuming that America woulden't lower the price with competition. One of the reasons they could charge so much is they had a monopoly RL; it was either pay, or go around South America. With a Dry Canal and maybe even a Nigerian one, they would have to be a little less expensive.

Lower the Price? You think I'm even going to rebuild the damn thing? As is, I'm just going into Panama to clean the mess the Spanish made, do think that cleaning is cheap? Think of the mudslides created by the explosions that would occur, it would be like thousands of years of erosion in a single day. Do you think I want to reopen the Canal with gov't money? No, if america wants that godforsaken land then they can have it, if their willing to cleanup and comply with whatever terms the Colombian Gov't has that is. Competition is GREAT, but the reconstruction would cost double the money it cost to build it, not only that but added with the initial cost to construct it, it might make such a decision questionable and flamboyantly expensive.

Anyway, just let the US keep their share, and they probably won't blink an eyelash.

the US share on the land will be taken by the Colombian Gov't to be put up for auction, they can participate and buy it, but they have to be willing to clean it up.

[Chinese Federation]

the US share on the land will be taken by the Colombian Gov't to be put up for auction, they can participate and buy it, but they have to be willing to clean it up.

why would we have to buy something we already own? the canal is mostly built with american funds and labor, the AU government wont tolerate thievery and im sure the international community will also be against nationalization

[Unicario]

the US share on the land will be taken by the Colombian Gov't to be put up for auction, they can participate and buy it, but they have to be willing to clean it up.

why would we have to buy something we already own? the canal is mostly built with american funds and labor, the AU government wont tolerate thievery and im sure the international community will also be against nationalization

The IJN "Meiji" will be bombarding Panama City, easy.

[Carathon]

why would we have to buy something we already own? the canal is mostly built with american funds and labor, the AU government wont tolerate thievery and im sure the international community will also be against nationalization

The IJN "Meiji" will be bombarding Panama City, easy.

Meanwhile, I'll just swoop in and aid the fascists in spain itself. Setting up either an Austrian friendly government or a plain puppet government.

Posted an offer Michael can't refuse in the Romanian war thread.

[Andonam]

Protecting the property of a sworn alley is a fairly good reason

If you had said this before we wouldn't be having this conversation. You're Lithuania right?

The American's own a big share in the canal. If you want to take Spain's share, fine. But nationlize it?

If you can link to any of my post that says that I'll give you brownie points.
Otherwise, you're putting words in my mouth that I didn't say, please stop.

You bascially just destroyed billions of dollars that America had. Also; if Scandinavia does it, well, I can't exactly piss them off without losing all my naval ability, now can I? Lithuania goes back with America and Scandinavia a LONG time... if they do it, that's usually reason enough.

I'M destroying billions of dollars? Spain is blowing up the Canal, not me, so why you're saying I'm destroying billions of dollars is confusing to me.

Also, you're assuming that America woulden't lower the price with competition. One of the reasons they could charge so much is they had a monopoly RL; it was either pay, or go around South America. With a Dry Canal and maybe even a Nigerian one, they would have to be a little less expensive.

Lower the Price? You think I'm even going to rebuild the damn thing? As is, I'm just going into Panama to clean the mess the Spanish made, do think that cleaning is cheap? Think of the mudslides created by the explosions that would occur, it would be like thousands of years of erosion in a single day. Do you think I want to reopen the Canal with gov't money? No, if america wants that godforsaken land then they can have it, if their willing to cleanup and comply with whatever terms the Colombian Gov't has that is. Competition is GREAT, but the reconstruction would cost double the money it cost to build it, not only that but added with the initial cost to construct it, it might make such a decision questionable and flamboyantly expensive.

Anyway, just let the US keep their share, and they probably won't blink an eyelash.

the US share on the land will be taken by the Colombian Gov't to be put up for auction, they can participate and buy it, but they have to be willing to clean it up.

Yes, I am.
----
New York Times:

"As of last Friday, the Panama Canal is declared fully operational by engineers and supervisors. The American-Spanish joint venture is said to be one of the greatest engineering feats accomplished by man. The projects, which have been marred by delays, labor strikes, and tropical maladies have taken over two decades and millions of dollars to complete. While currently untested, the canal is designed to cut travel time across the Americas to a mere five weeks and is predicted to boost global trade by as much as 8%."
-----

Sorry, I was assuming you were going to blow it up. In that case, America is entitled to some land in Spain to cover expenses.
----

And the US share already belongs to them. Revolt against Spain is no reason to take America's property.

[Kamchatkalia]

Japan would throw some shit at whoever blows the Canal up. The Canal, while Japan isn't happy it's... SPANISH, we think it's a very easy way to get from East Asia to Europe. Better than the old 1770's route (RURI KNOWS WHAT I TALK ABOUT)

Japan would also heavily fund a Canal restoration project, and back an Allied-intervention against whomever holds the Canal to make it a joint zone.

I'm sure they would, and we are willing to cooperate with any nations that are willing to cooperate with Colombia to get the Canal and the Dry Canal up and working. The preexisting infrastructure could enable a small amount of goods to pass through, so keep that in mind.

why would we have to buy something we already own?

Because the contract you signed was signed with a nonexistent nation any record of the contract doesn't exist in Colombian records,

the canal is mostly built with american funds and labor, the AU government wont tolerate thievery

Oh yes, thievery, I'm surprised you overlooked the fact that all funds made in the auction will be going to aid the Colombian effort to clean up the area.

and im sure the international community will also be against nationalization

This made me laugh. Half of Europe is Socialist/Communist, not to mention that they have several capitalist nations allied to them.

@Andonam: Mind making your replies similar in format to mine? It makes it much easier to read.

[Chinese Federation]

@Kamchatkalia: well if you will not uphold america's right to the canal, then america will not recognize Colombia's claim to panama. but go make your first post, i cant make my move unless you make your's. also, what difference does it make if Europe is communist, they wont support you simply because of ideological similarities