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Monfrox
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Monfrox » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:54 pm

GOram wrote:
Monfrox wrote:Up the rebels!

Down the British!


Wrong war, bro.

I can still say it.
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Goram
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Goram » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:55 pm

Len Hyet wrote:Attention all Brits
Attention all Brits



Ireland consumes more tea than Britain


It's only been in the last few years that I've really started drinking tea. I barely drank tea in 2009...I haven't done my duty to Queen and country...I've betrayed England...

Excuse me whilst I find the nearest tent to go behind and do the honourable thing...

Image
Last edited by Wg. Cmdr. Gibson on Monday 17th May 1943, edited 617 times in total.


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Grenartia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:59 pm

Kouralia wrote:
Grenartia wrote:Though with regards to the nature of the War of 1812 itself, the US did have a valid casus belli. And I did see a very convincing argument on NSG that while the outcome was status quo ante bellum, and all sides mostly got what they wanted, the US gained the most from the war.

You gained the most from it... but the US also gained the least of their war aims. Considering the British War Aims were 'fuck off and stop attacking Canada', and that's about it.


Except Canada was only a means to an end. A bargaining chip for a better position at the peace negotiations. One which turned out to be entirely unnecessary.

Plus, it gave us a kick-ass national anthem and increased national unity. Nice little bonuses.
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The Tiger Kingdom
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Tiger Kingdom » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:03 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Kouralia wrote:[quote="Grenartia";p="17294491]
Though with regards to the nature of the War of 1812 itself, the US did have a valid casus belli. And I did see a very convincing argument on NSG that while the outcome was status quo ante bellum, and all sides mostly got what they wanted, the US gained the most from the war.
[/quote]
You gained the most from it... but the US also gained the least of their war aims. Considering the British War Aims were 'fuck off and stop attacking Canada', and that's about it.[/quote]

Except Canada was only a means to an end. A bargaining chip for a better position at the peace negotiations. One which turned out to be entirely unnecessary.

Plus, it gave us a kick-ass national anthem and increased national unity. Nice little bonuses.[/quote]

While I agree with your assessment of the war, I humbly disagree that it gave us a kickass national anthem. The Star-Spangled Banner is a little bit...erm...underwhelming, in my opinion. It's a weird song, and it took a solid 157 years or so before we got a truly kickass version of it.
Last edited by The Tiger Kingdom on Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When the war is over
Got to start again
Try to hold a trace of what it was back then
You and I we sent each other stories
Just a page I'm lost in all its glory
How can I go home and not get blown away

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Grenartia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:06 pm

The Tiger Kingdom wrote:While I agree with your assessment of the war, I humbly disagree that it gave us a kickass national anthem. The Star-Spangled Banner is a little bit...erm...underwhelming, in my opinion. It's a weird song, and it took a solid 157 years or so before we got a truly kickass version of it.


Better than what the Brits or Canadians have. Though I must admit Stars and Stripes Forever would make an even better anthem if you could somehow set the lyrics of the Star Spangled Banner to it.

EDIT: Ficks'd the quote tags.
Last edited by Grenartia on Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Monfrox
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Monfrox » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:07 pm

The Tiger Kingdom wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Kouralia wrote:[quote="Grenartia";p="17294491]
Though with regards to the nature of the War of 1812 itself, the US did have a valid casus belli. And I did see a very convincing argument on NSG that while the outcome was status quo ante bellum, and all sides mostly got what they wanted, the US gained the most from the war.
[/quote]
You gained the most from it... but the US also gained the least of their war aims. Considering the British War Aims were 'fuck off and stop attacking Canada', and that's about it.[/quote]

Except Canada was only a means to an end. A bargaining chip for a better position at the peace negotiations. One which turned out to be entirely unnecessary.

Plus, it gave us a kick-ass national anthem and increased national unity. Nice little bonuses.[/quote][/quote][/quote]
While I agree with your assessment of the war, I humbly disagree that it gave us a kickass national anthem. The Star-Spangled Banner is a little bit...erm...underwhelming, in my opinion. It's a weird song, and it took a solid 157 years or so before we got a truly kickass version of it.[/quote]

HEEEENDRIIIIXX!!!
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Len Hyet
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Len Hyet » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:08 pm

The Tiger Kingdom wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Kouralia wrote:[quote="Grenartia";p="17294491]
Though with regards to the nature of the War of 1812 itself, the US did have a valid casus belli. And I did see a very convincing argument on NSG that while the outcome was status quo ante bellum, and all sides mostly got what they wanted, the US gained the most from the war.
[/quote]
You gained the most from it... but the US also gained the least of their war aims. Considering the British War Aims were 'fuck off and stop attacking Canada', and that's about it.[/quote]

Except Canada was only a means to an end. A bargaining chip for a better position at the peace negotiations. One which turned out to be entirely unnecessary.

Plus, it gave us a kick-ass national anthem and increased national unity. Nice little bonuses.[/quote][/quote][/quote]
While I agree with your assessment of the war, I humbly disagree that it gave us a kickass national anthem. The Star-Spangled Banner is a little bit...erm...underwhelming, in my opinion. It's a weird song, and it took a solid 157 years or so before we got a truly kickass version of it.[/quote]

Tigger, I've decided to start sprinkling ACDC, Breaking Benjamin, and Queen easter eggs in my posts.
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Monfrox
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Monfrox » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:08 pm

I think we broke the forum a little bit there, guys...
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Xing wrote:Yeah but you also are the best at roleplay. (yay Space Core references) I'm pretty sure a four man tank crew is no problem for someone that had 27 different RP characters going at one time.

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Len Hyet
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Len Hyet » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:09 pm

Monfrox wrote:I think we broke the forum a little bit there, guys...

It's okay. We're allowed to do it.

*nods*
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The Tiger Kingdom
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Tiger Kingdom » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:12 pm

Grenartia wrote:Better than what the Brits or Canadians have. Though I must admit Stars and Stripes Forever would make an even better anthem if you could somehow set the lyrics of the Star Spangled Banner to it.

I'd say we're about on the same level as the British are. The French and the USSR definitely have/had us beat, amongst others.

Monfrox wrote:HEEEENDRIIIIXX!!!

INDEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!
Rivalled only by Boston's straighter-laced, cleaner, but also quite awesome cover of it off of Boston's Greatest Hits. It's worth noting that both of these are instrumental covers.

Len Hyet wrote:Tigger, I've decided to start sprinkling ACDC, Breaking Benjamin, and Queen easter eggs in my posts.

AC/DC: YAY
Queen: YAY
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Last edited by The Tiger Kingdom on Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When the war is over
Got to start again
Try to hold a trace of what it was back then
You and I we sent each other stories
Just a page I'm lost in all its glory
How can I go home and not get blown away

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Kouralia
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Founded: Oct 30, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kouralia » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:16 pm

Grenartia wrote:
The Tiger Kingdom wrote:While I agree with your assessment of the war, I humbly disagree that it gave us a kickass national anthem. The Star-Spangled Banner is a little bit...erm...underwhelming, in my opinion. It's a weird song, and it took a solid 157 years or so before we got a truly kickass version of it.


Better than what the Brits or Canadians have. Though I must admit Stars and Stripes Forever would make an even better anthem if you could somehow set the lyrics of the Star Spangled Banner to it.

EDIT: Ficks'd the quote tags.

You're just jealous because we've got class and you're left with... *shudders* swag.

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The Tiger Kingdom
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Tiger Kingdom » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:18 pm

Kouralia wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Better than what the Brits or Canadians have. Though I must admit Stars and Stripes Forever would make an even better anthem if you could somehow set the lyrics of the Star Spangled Banner to it.

EDIT: Ficks'd the quote tags.

You're just jealous because we've got class and you're left with... *shudders* swag.

Image

right, the country that essentially runs pornography in a considerable fraction of their major papers is the one lecturing others about class
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
When the war is over
Got to start again
Try to hold a trace of what it was back then
You and I we sent each other stories
Just a page I'm lost in all its glory
How can I go home and not get blown away

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Kouralia
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Founded: Oct 30, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kouralia » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:21 pm

The Tiger Kingdom wrote:
Kouralia wrote:You're just jealous because we've got class and you're left with... *shudders* swag.

Image

right, the country that essentially runs pornography in a considerable fraction of their major papers is the one lecturing others about class
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

Image
Why yes. Yes, I do think we are.

:p
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Grenartia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:26 pm

The Tiger Kingdom wrote:
Grenartia wrote:Better than what the Brits or Canadians have. Though I must admit Stars and Stripes Forever would make an even better anthem if you could somehow set the lyrics of the Star Spangled Banner to it.

1. I'd say we're about on the same level as the British are. The French and the USSR definitely have/had us beat, amongst others.

Monfrox wrote:HEEEENDRIIIIXX!!!

2. INDEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!
Rivalled only by Boston's straighter-laced, cleaner, but also quite awesome cover of it off of Boston's Greatest Hits.

Len Hyet wrote:Tigger, I've decided to start sprinkling ACDC, Breaking Benjamin, and Queen easter eggs in my posts.

3. AC/DC: YAY
Queen: YAY
BB: ...*quick nod and grimace to show guilty appreciation of a small fraction of their work*


1. TRAITOR! :p

2. Personally, I love the interpretation that the distortion in Hendrix's version represent the distortion of American values during the Cold War.

Kouralia wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Better than what the Brits or Canadians have. Though I must admit Stars and Stripes Forever would make an even better anthem if you could somehow set the lyrics of the Star Spangled Banner to it.

EDIT: Ficks'd the quote tags.

You're just jealous because we've got class and you're left with... *shudders* swag.

Image


Implying we don't have class.

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/ratamacue01/acj.jpg

http://blog.leadapparel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/usmc-sunset-parade.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Washington_Crossing_the_Delaware_by_Emanuel_Leutze,_MMA-NYC,_1851.jpg

We're Americans, dammit. Just because we don't have needless frills doesn't mean we don't have class. Big furry hats? Not only do they look stupid, they're also massive targets.
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Kouralia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kouralia » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:39 pm

Grenartia wrote:Big furry hats? Not only do they look stupid, they're also massive targets.

Not sure if either a) trying to argue that a soldier would be aiming at the Bearskin, b) the Guardsman of the modern day would wear a bearskin when defending Buckingham Palace, c) The Musket of the Napoleonic/Crimean War would actually be able to hit what its aimed at, or d) these two are significantly different in the size of target.

Image
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Monfrox
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Monfrox » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:39 pm

Grenartia wrote:
The Tiger Kingdom wrote:1. I'd say we're about on the same level as the British are. The French and the USSR definitely have/had us beat, amongst others.


2. INDEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!
Rivalled only by Boston's straighter-laced, cleaner, but also quite awesome cover of it off of Boston's Greatest Hits.


3. AC/DC: YAY
Queen: YAY
BB: ...*quick nod and grimace to show guilty appreciation of a small fraction of their work*


1. TRAITOR! :p

2. Personally, I love the interpretation that the distortion in Hendrix's version represent the distortion of American values during the Cold War.

One does not simply distort the values of Coca-Cola, Hot Rods, and Duck and Cover.
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Kassaran
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Kassaran » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:53 pm

Monfrox wrote:
Morrdh wrote:
I'll probably give you the first one, though the War of 1812 the US attacked first and it ended with a draw in Britain's favour (based upon the US' supposed war aim of annexing Canada not happening).

Why would we even need Canada in the first place is my question?


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Grenartia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:03 pm

Kouralia wrote:
Grenartia wrote:Big furry hats? Not only do they look stupid, they're also massive targets.

Not sure if either a) trying to argue that a soldier would be aiming at the Bearskin, b) the Guardsman of the modern day would wear a bearskin when defending Buckingham Palace, c) The Musket of the Napoleonic/Crimean War would actually be able to hit what its aimed at, or d) these two are significantly different in the size of target.

Image
Image


What I'm saying is that they're shitty for any kind of military uniform, and that for a guerrilla soldier, such a hat would've been a gigantic neon sign shouting "HEY LOOK AT ME! SHOOT THE GUY WEARING ME!".

And you've never heard of a Kentucky Long Rifle, have you?

Monfrox wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
1. TRAITOR! :p

2. Personally, I love the interpretation that the distortion in Hendrix's version represent the distortion of American values during the Cold War.

One does not simply distort the values of Coca-Cola, Hot Rods, and Duck and Cover.


I feel the incredible urge to sig this. :rofl:
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Kouralia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kouralia » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:12 pm

Grenartia wrote:What I'm saying is that they're shitty for any kind of military uniform, and that for a guerrilla soldier, such a hat would've been a gigantic neon sign shouting "HEY LOOK AT ME! SHOOT THE GUY WEARING ME!".

And you've never heard of a Kentucky Long Rifle, have you?

1) You must not have heard of the 18th and early 19th centuries.
2) Why the heck would a Guerrilla Soldier choose to wear the Ceremonial Full Dress of the Foot Guard Regiments of the British Army?
3) Please don't insult my intelligence by asking me if I've heard of rifles. There's nothing 'special' about the American Longrifle, I'd wager the Baker Rifle was superior, and yet even that didn't invalidate the use of shakos, bearskins, blue coats, red coats, gold braid and line formations. It's pretty stupid to imply they would.
In 1778 at the siege of Boonesborough, Kentucky, one of the officers of the combined British/Shawnee assault force was hiding behind a tree. He stuck his head out from behind the tree and was instantly killed by a ball to the forehead fired by Daniel Boone, who was known for always firing the same fixed measure load of black powder in his rifle. This shot was later confirmed by witnesses on both sides and the distance measured at 250 yards. Hitting a target so precisely at that range would probably make the "Kentucky" rifle comparable in total effective (long) range with the British Baker rifle at 300 to 400 yards.
The accuracy of the rifle in capable hands is most famously demonstrated at the Battle of Cacabelos by the action of Rifleman Thomas Plunkett (or Plunket) of the 1st Battalion, 95th Rifles, who shot French General Colbert at an unknown but long range (as much as 600 yards (549 meters) according to some sources) during the retreat to La Coruña during the Peninsular War. He then shot one of the General's aides, suggesting that the success of the first shot was not due to luck.
Last edited by Kouralia on Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Monfrox
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Monfrox » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:14 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Monfrox wrote:One does not simply distort the values of Coca-Cola, Hot Rods, and Duck and Cover.


I feel the incredible urge to sig this. :rofl:

It's not everyday I have a nice, witty comeback like that one.

I think I filled my quota for the next three months...
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The Ctan
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Ctan » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:27 pm

Grenartia wrote:What I'm saying is that they're shitty for any kind of military uniform, and that for a guerrilla soldier, such a hat would've been a gigantic neon sign shouting "HEY LOOK AT ME! SHOOT THE GUY WEARING ME!".


Just to jump in, I assume you're referring to the American War of Independence there? Because it is telling the the very moment the nascent United States had the money to adopt then-conventional military uniforms, it did so:

Image

Here is the 1810 United States Marine Corps uniform. Note how it looks exactly like other Napoleonic uniforms. Because at the time, these worked. If you've heard the Marine Corps hymn:

From The Halls of Montezuma! to The Shores of Tripoli!
Last edited by The Ctan on Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Imeriata
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Postby Imeriata » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:30 pm

Grenartia wrote:What I'm saying is that they're shitty for any kind of military uniform, and that for a guerrilla soldier, such a hat would've been a gigantic neon sign shouting "HEY LOOK AT ME! SHOOT THE GUY WEARING ME!".

Actually a guerilla soldier would at worst be a minor inconvenience for a regiment of real soldiers and would likely spot him anyway. However what the bearskin is good for is that you look much taller wearing one which is good when you march straight up to an enemy line, unleashing a volley at them and then charge in screaming with your bayonet.

You will look much taller and fearsome which is the point of them in the first place making them a really good choice for a headgear. They also had the added benefit of giving some minor cover against sabres if you were attacked by cavalry.
Last edited by Imeriata on Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Monfrox
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Monfrox » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:32 pm

Where's that damn spam filter...
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Xing wrote:Yeah but you also are the best at roleplay. (yay Space Core references) I'm pretty sure a four man tank crew is no problem for someone that had 27 different RP characters going at one time.

The Grey Wolf wrote:Froxy knows how to use a whip, I speak from experience.

Winner of the P2TM 2013 Best Fight Scene in a Single Post and Most Original Character, and 2015 Best Horror/Thriller Role-player awards.
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Kouralia
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Posts: 15059
Founded: Oct 30, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kouralia » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:34 pm

Monfrox wrote:Where's that damn spam filter...

Did you know, in the British Army US Troops are known as Spams?

For a number of reasons, but one rumoured one is SPAM = Spastic Plastic American Motherfucker, referring probably to the M4/M16.
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Risen Britannia wrote:"England has been invaded at various points throughout its history. Fortunately, every invader mysteriously became English when they took over, thus leaving England undefeated."

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Monfrox
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Posts: 33278
Founded: Mar 25, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Monfrox » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:36 pm

Kouralia wrote:
Monfrox wrote:Where's that damn spam filter...

Did you know, in the British Army US Troops are known as Spams?

For a number of reasons, but one rumoured one is SPAM = Spastic Plastic American Motherfucker, referring probably to the M4/M16.

At least we still don't use a gun that's a complete defect. Hint hint L85 hint.

The M16/M4 platform may have problems, but not nearly as many, nor as frequent as the L85. But enough about that.
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I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith.
Xing wrote:Yeah but you also are the best at roleplay. (yay Space Core references) I'm pretty sure a four man tank crew is no problem for someone that had 27 different RP characters going at one time.

The Grey Wolf wrote:Froxy knows how to use a whip, I speak from experience.

Winner of the P2TM 2013 Best Fight Scene in a Single Post and Most Original Character, and 2015 Best Horror/Thriller Role-player awards.
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