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Orinon
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Founded: Nov 08, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Orinon » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:16 am

Goltia stayed silent, trying to think of a reply. Josh, unlike her, was able to see Cassie, and chewed his lip in thought at her words. Then, for the first time since he had arrived, Josh spoke up.
"My, our, people's ancestors weren't exactly top of the food chain. Our home is... Hostile. Dangerous. To kill another member of our people was horrific to them. It was robbing them of a worker, or a leader, or a homekeeper, or a child. I guess, this carried over to our lifes today. Our ethics, our laws, may seem brutal to you, but to us, they are normal, and they work," he said softly. Looking at Cassie, he gave an apologetic look.
"That said, killing in self-defence is never punished. If your life is in danger, sometimes killing is the only out," Goltia mused, her voice quieter then before.
I did some threads a long ass time ago that some people care about Iunno ya'll crazy.

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Nulvelith
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Founded: Jan 14, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Nulvelith » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:26 am

Edamiel smirks a bit, crossing her arms. "See? Even just here, everyone's definition of what is or isn't ethical or moral varies so much, that trying to decide what they are is pointless. Ethics are quite useless, pointless. Unless you can somehow convince every single person, everywhere to agree. And we all know that something like that is just to good to be true. We have reality to deal with, and ethics are just for show, because they dont work in reality. So tell me this, teach: why are we even bothering to have this discussion? Where is the value in this classtime? Some of us could clearly use some rest, some of us just dont want to be here... It is wasted time, as far as i can tell."
Be silent. Be not still.

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Corrian
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Founded: Mar 19, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Corrian » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:27 am

Cassie listened to Josh, and had to think of her own response to what he said. She was thinking Josh' people didn't sound all that different from humans on the top of her head from what she knew about them, but she figured they would be quite different in certain ways if she knew more about them. "I understand. Even we still have the death penalty in places, while the same people that make these laws send people to war with other countries and kill countless people, innocent and not, while also sending our soldiers to their deaths in the process. It is a very ugly reality in some places of our world" She said, letting out a sigh and running her hand over her face, wincing slightly since she felt bruised from Makoto. She noticed Josh' apologetic look, but didn't say anything in response to it or give him any noticeable looks back.

"I don't think many places, if any that I know of, have killing in self-defense be punished. And yeah, sometimes sadly it is the only option.........." Cassie said, trailing off and spacing off. Had she killed her parents in self-defense? It wasn't like her life was in danger...They were just driving after all. Had she taken their lives out of anger alone? Anger at what her father did to her? She didn't really want to think about that. Though, she honestly didn't know if her life was in danger. Her father had turned insane, and considering he fired a gun near her to scare her to death once, she could honestly say she felt that her life was in danger. But she didn't know if that justified what she did when her life wasn't in danger. There were other crimes her father committed too, that could technically be considered attempting to ruin the rest of her life for her by making her miserable with the memories of the horrific event, but no matter how she tried to put it to make it not sound as bad, she still felt guilty. But even still, part of her didn't regret what she had done, and she felt relief with what she had done. Felt there was more hope that she could recover and be normal again. But the last few days of problems had ruined that feeling for her, and she felt like she was on a downward spiral again.

Ignoring Edamiel's next remark related to the subject, Cassie went back to putting her head against her arms on her desk, closing her eyes and letting out another sigh, trying hard to not get emotional in class.
My Last.FM and RYM

Look on the bright side, one day you'll be dead~Street Sects

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Altruistic Paladins
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Founded: Feb 23, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Altruistic Paladins » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:30 am

"You should try Socratic questioning at somepoint, but you did well anyway," Sakura whispered to Cassie as she patted Cassie on the back. "I spreckon that I am having difficulties following some of the trains of thought on display here. May I ask clarrification from the 'weak' 'brute' proposer and the ceiling man? I need to understand the persuasion if I might be able to be argued to favor your side," Sakura asked with a quiet voice and a confused tone. She could not recognize the students. She had an affect that was different from the one she traditionally spoke with, as it was vaguely rural to most people.

---

"Well, this is going to require improvization on my part. Whenever I have observed people's minds, I observed things that were still very clearly parts of their mind. I am not sure how I may evict people from somebody's mind. Maybe I may, no, I may be able to scare them out somehow if they can follow Antonio's senses. Nothing makes people want to evacuate a mind quite like a hallucination of a gun held to the brow. No, I refuse to treat an innocent like that. Is this the type of problem where violence will force them to leave?" Bramwell continued to ponder aloud as he paced back and forth. He really was at a loss for what he was supposed to do. He remained calm at the time, and continued to try to understand the odd situation he was volunteered for.
By Hits Holy Hand,
The Imperial Majesty Emperor Norton II of the People of the DSA and Protector of Ukraine
Inaugurated 12:06 A.M. Ecuador Standard Time, June 26, 2014; crowned 12:23 A.M. EST; June 26, 2014; instituted the Separation of Positions 1:07 A.M. EST, June 26, 2014; retired from office 4:58 P.M. EST, June 27, 2014; returned to office 1:05 A.M. EST, June 30, 2014; retired again 12:05 P.M. EST

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Nakarisaune
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakarisaune » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:45 am

So the lesson was just going to be another discussion that didn't get anywhere at all and that would never actually affect Rachael in daily life. No surprises, no disappointment. This was the kind of shitty lesson she'd gotten used to. It would go the same as always: other villains would argue that ethics were stupid (as had already been demonstrated), vigilantes would pretend they were too cool to play by morals, and heroes would spout bullshit about 'of course everyone needs morals! How else would we all be alive to suffer through another day?!' And the teacher would pretend to have some semblance of control. Just the same as normal here. She'd watched this a million times before, so she doubted sleeping through it would make a difference.
She glared at a few 'heroes', mumbled something incoherent and nonsensical relating to ethics, then slumped lower in her chair and gave in to the tiredness.
"Nakari won best WW player, awarded to the person who is best at lying." - Fratt

"I wanted you to see what real courage is, instead of getting the idea that courage is a point with a hundred endorsements. It's when you know you're licked before you begin, but you begin anyway and see it through no matter what."

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Kershya
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Founded: Jan 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kershya » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:58 am

Gregorio

"Well, they can go out of Antonio, they just don't know it, and for the sake of everyone, we want them sane and cooperative, forcing them out while still under possible influence by whatever being is taking control is a bad idea at the very least." He said to Bramwell.

"If you're going inside Antonio's head you need to be careful, I don't know what happened in that mindscape since the time I escape that light." Raijin warned.
Full Name:
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Economic Left/Right: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.72

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Nulvelith
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Founded: Jan 14, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Nulvelith » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:01 am

Edamiel looked at Sakura, almost shocked to hear herself called a man. Almost. It was more annoyance than anything else. Really now, people these days! Anything less than a size d-something chest and they pretend it isn't there... Out loud, she said, "honestly, I don't think you really want to understand my way of thinking, since it would require you to understand some other horrible realities, things privilaged brats like- ...never mind, that is a completely separate discussion, one that isn't on the menu today."
With that, Edamiel shuts up and cloaks herself again, moving across the ceiling to sit over in the back corner.
Be silent. Be not still.

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Pragia
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Founded: May 08, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Pragia » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:31 pm

"And so the brat get down from her high and mighty ceiling." Thomas muttered to himself, wondering if those here could stall class long enough to skip it all. Thomas had a grip of morals and ethics, and he was a feeling a bit pompous on the subject. He then began to wonder if he'd be able to learn anything from this. He had loved how that one girl from the pool was able to keep composure, it seemed as though she was about to fall apart up there.


Rena entered the "Hero" dorm, curious as to why nobody was around, and walked slowly to her dorm, dropping off her clothes and gear. She decided to snoop around the floors looking for anyone. The dorm was spartanesque but very uniform, and she only seemed to find one class full of people, and she debated coming in late.

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Mighty Asgard
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Posts: 2082
Founded: Jan 09, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Mighty Asgard » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:00 pm

Michael
Michael let the students debate for a while before interrupting. "Very good, I think we'll pause there. So far it seems that largely everyone has different ideas what ethics is, and what value it holds. This is nothing odd at all, it is in fact the point I wanted to make. You will likely never find anyone who thinks exactly like you do, who has the exact same ethics as you. This does not, however, mean that ethics hold no value. Ethics guide the perceptions of the public, the opinions of the majority form the basis of the unwritten code of ethics that we are all judged by. That is what we will discuss now, practical application of ethics."

He erased the writing on the whiteboard and replaced it with the words 'killing a person' before facing the class again. "Some of you touched on this already. Most people would agree that killing a person is bad, but then amend exceptions when it is not. Killing in self-defense, killing enemies in a war, killing some criminals, killing people 'who deserve it'. People often think that these are acceptable exceptions to the rule of killing being bad. The same is true for stealing, many would agree that stealing is acceptable if you do it to feed your starving family but not just because you want something that belongs to someone else." He erased the board again and left it blank. "So, it is important to recognize what falls within the acceptable range of actions so you can ensure that you can keep inside the acceptable."

He looked across the class and smiled pleasantly, "does anyone want to make a guess as to why this is important to know?"

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Pragia
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Founded: May 08, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Pragia » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:09 pm

Rena decided to enter the room in the dead air after the teach had spoken. She ran up taking a seat. She then turned sideways, wiping her brow in relief, and nearly screamed upon seeing Thomas right next to her.

"Well, fancy seeing you here" He whispered, still focusing on what the teacher had said.
"Yeah, really a small world don't you think?" she whispered back
"So what have you done with yourself?" he whispered shocked by her uncharictaristcally calm sister. She usually was so energetic and bubbly, but now she looked stone cold.
"This can wait until after class" She deadpanned, freezing his lips shut for a minute.

Thomas got annoyed, it was a bad job, but when he managed to open his mouth again it hurt, sticky ice tearing away skin.

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Altruistic Paladins
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Posts: 4135
Founded: Feb 23, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Altruistic Paladins » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:30 pm

"I am not fixing to be convinced by the arguement not made," Sakura rather plainly said. "Then again, neither un-made arguements nor insults will deliver me from ignorance to enlightment." Sakura was entirely unaware about the percieved insult at Edamiel, as she thought she just made a pun on "cieling fan" using a "dramatic" word for human. She did not notice the annoyance Edamiel had to the phrase, and thought she realized it was a pun. When Michael proposed the question, Sakura had an odd idea pop into her head. "Is there an upcoming mission where lethal force may be necessary?"

---

"Wait, I had the preconception that these were hostiles I was to remove from Antonio. I refuse to go with the traumatizing ways then. Raijin, I could just broadcast my vision and ears to you so that you may guide me through this place. Back on topic, I need to get rid of this thing that influences their actions and potentially thoughts. What is this negative influence I must either destroy or counter-act and is there any chance it may force me to do evil?" Bramwell declared rather quickly in an attempt to correct himself. After the initial correction, Bramwell went back to his contemplations.
By Hits Holy Hand,
The Imperial Majesty Emperor Norton II of the People of the DSA and Protector of Ukraine
Inaugurated 12:06 A.M. Ecuador Standard Time, June 26, 2014; crowned 12:23 A.M. EST; June 26, 2014; instituted the Separation of Positions 1:07 A.M. EST, June 26, 2014; retired from office 4:58 P.M. EST, June 27, 2014; returned to office 1:05 A.M. EST, June 30, 2014; retired again 12:05 P.M. EST

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Kintain
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Posts: 364
Founded: Jan 05, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kintain » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:59 pm

Mighty Asgard wrote:Michael
Michael let the students debate for a while before interrupting. "Very good, I think we'll pause there. So far it seems that largely everyone has different ideas what ethics is, and what value it holds. This is nothing odd at all, it is in fact the point I wanted to make. You will likely never find anyone who thinks exactly like you do, who has the exact same ethics as you. This does not, however, mean that ethics hold no value. Ethics guide the perceptions of the public, the opinions of the majority form the basis of the unwritten code of ethics that we are all judged by. That is what we will discuss now, practical application of ethics."

He erased the writing on the whiteboard and replaced it with the words 'killing a person' before facing the class again. "Some of you touched on this already. Most people would agree that killing a person is bad, but then amend exceptions when it is not. Killing in self-defense, killing enemies in a war, killing some criminals, killing people 'who deserve it'. People often think that these are acceptable exceptions to the rule of killing being bad. The same is true for stealing, many would agree that stealing is acceptable if you do it to feed your starving family but not just because you want something that belongs to someone else." He erased the board again and left it blank. "So, it is important to recognize what falls within the acceptable range of actions so you can ensure that you can keep inside the acceptable."

He looked across the class and smiled pleasantly, "does anyone want to make a guess as to why this is important to know?"


"Because if you don't know these 'boundaries' or ignore them, you're bound to find yourself thrown into an 8 by 8 by mindless brutes." Jack's voice was thick with sarcasm, "Then again, if you're good enough, you won't be caught, if you're rich enough, you'll buy your way out, if you're popular enough, the law ends up being 'nicer,' if you're powerful enough, you can shrug it off and give the system a smirk and a finger."
Political: Centrist
Religion: N/A, Atheist
Philosophy: Nihilistic, still expanding upon it and finding myself further

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Pragia
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Posts: 7635
Founded: May 08, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Pragia » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:24 pm

Kintain wrote:
Mighty Asgard wrote:Michael
Michael let the students debate for a while before interrupting. "Very good, I think we'll pause there. So far it seems that largely everyone has different ideas what ethics is, and what value it holds. This is nothing odd at all, it is in fact the point I wanted to make. You will likely never find anyone who thinks exactly like you do, who has the exact same ethics as you. This does not, however, mean that ethics hold no value. Ethics guide the perceptions of the public, the opinions of the majority form the basis of the unwritten code of ethics that we are all judged by. That is what we will discuss now, practical application of ethics."

He erased the writing on the whiteboard and replaced it with the words 'killing a person' before facing the class again. "Some of you touched on this already. Most people would agree that killing a person is bad, but then amend exceptions when it is not. Killing in self-defense, killing enemies in a war, killing some criminals, killing people 'who deserve it'. People often think that these are acceptable exceptions to the rule of killing being bad. The same is true for stealing, many would agree that stealing is acceptable if you do it to feed your starving family but not just because you want something that belongs to someone else." He erased the board again and left it blank. "So, it is important to recognize what falls within the acceptable range of actions so you can ensure that you can keep inside the acceptable."

He looked across the class and smiled pleasantly, "does anyone want to make a guess as to why this is important to know?"


"Because if you don't know these 'boundaries' or ignore them, you're bound to find yourself thrown into an 8 by 8 by mindless brutes." Jack's voice was thick with sarcasm, "Then again, if you're good enough, you won't be caught, if you're rich enough, you'll buy your way out, if you're popular enough, the law ends up being 'nicer,' if you're powerful enough, you can shrug it off and give the system a smirk and a finger."

Rena barely had made it in and she was already annoyed, she spoke up, "Maybe if people didn't ignore or bothered to learn these boundaries, they wouldn't be locked up?." she said, spite laced into her voice. She hated people who blamed the way they grew up for how they act. She had dealt with living in between families that didn't care and living out on the street, and she didn't care that she had that type of upbringing. She instead decided to go her own way and move beyond blatant immorallity.

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Corrian
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 74852
Founded: Mar 19, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Corrian » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:43 pm

Cassie winced when Sakura patted her on the back, and just gave her a brief smile in response to what she said. She had no idea what Socratic questioning even meant, and she didn't really feel like asking either. She stayed silent, and didn't pay a lot of attention up until the teacher spoke again. Seeing the words "killing a person" made her twitch, and she held onto her desk as if she was going to fall if she didn't. As he went on about self-defense, killing enemies in war, and so on, she clung into her desk tighter, her knuckles turning white. But the part related to stealing to feed your starving family....Even she wasn't sure if she thought that was wrong. As much as she hated the whole idea of stealing, she honestly couldn't feel that angry at people who stole just to feed their families, especially when they were stealing from people who could perfectly well feed themselves, even though she generally considered stealing to be wrong for the most part.

To the rest her mind just started wandering again, half paying attention to what was going on, since these kinds of classes just seemed to end with people arguing with each other.

Caitlin
"Because people would probably prefer not to live their life out in a small cell" Caitlin said, even though people pretty much addressed that point before her. But, even she had to actually agree with Jack on this one.

"Exactly, and I find that extremely annoying that people like politicians can get away with what they do, and bankers can get away with robbing people, because they are all mighty and powerful, while all of us lowly people get the harshest punishments. Or, are the only one's that get punishments at all. Sometimes for stuff that doesn't even make sense. It is a skewed system"

"Obviously, this isn't the case for everywhere. A lot of places I'm sure are great. I can think of a few places who have done what I consider to be right under the circumstances, instead of giving the rich benefits because they are rich, the popular easy ways off because they are popular, and so on" She continued, and paused for a moment.

"But I don't want to bring politics into this discussion. That's not what it currently is about" She added.
My Last.FM and RYM

Look on the bright side, one day you'll be dead~Street Sects

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Kintain
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Posts: 364
Founded: Jan 05, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kintain » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:37 pm

Pragia wrote:
Kintain wrote:
"Because if you don't know these 'boundaries' or ignore them, you're bound to find yourself thrown into an 8 by 8 by mindless brutes." Jack's voice was thick with sarcasm, "Then again, if you're good enough, you won't be caught, if you're rich enough, you'll buy your way out, if you're popular enough, the law ends up being 'nicer,' if you're powerful enough, you can shrug it off and give the system a smirk and a finger."

Rena barely had made it in and she was already annoyed, she spoke up, "Maybe if people didn't ignore or bothered to learn these boundaries, they wouldn't be locked up?." she said, spite laced into her voice. She hated people who blamed the way they grew up for how they act. She had dealt with living in between families that didn't care and living out on the street, and she didn't care that she had that type of upbringing. She instead decided to go her own way and move beyond blatant immorallity.


Jack sneered, "maybe if we listened to Darwin, Nietzsche, and whatnot, we'd actually be living life as it was meant to be lived instead up of desperately trying to control that which does not need controlling. Yes, I know I'm a bitter person, but I am free in all the ways that you are not. Nature is a constant strive for title of the strongest, the most intelligent, and the most cunning. Humanity in general is caught up in a dream where everything lives together harmoniously, blindly unaware that many damn themselves to be the last men. It only thanks to those who strive, those who break the limits, the "rules," the false idea of fairness, that humanity has been able to come so far while the rest help make humanity fall so low."
Political: Centrist
Religion: N/A, Atheist
Philosophy: Nihilistic, still expanding upon it and finding myself further

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Kershya
Minister
 
Posts: 2427
Founded: Jan 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kershya » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:46 pm

Gregorio

"Beating it would be a hopeful possibility, but we can't destroy it right now due to the other personalities not ganging up on it. And, unfortunately, I'm not sure whether or not it can influence you at all. It's connected to Antonio's mind but it could affect other people if it has a chance." He said.
Full Name:
The United Nine Constitutional Monarchies of Kershya

Economy

Economic Left/Right: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.72

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Pragia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7635
Founded: May 08, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Pragia » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:52 pm

Kintain wrote:
Pragia wrote:
Rena barely had made it in and she was already annoyed, she spoke up, "Maybe if people didn't ignore or bothered to learn these boundaries, they wouldn't be locked up?." she said, spite laced into her voice. She hated people who blamed the way they grew up for how they act. She had dealt with living in between families that didn't care and living out on the street, and she didn't care that she had that type of upbringing. She instead decided to go her own way and move beyond blatant immorallity.


Jack sneered, "maybe if we listened to Darwin, Nietzsche, and whatnot, we'd actually be living life as it was meant to be lived instead up of desperately trying to control that which does not need controlling. Yes, I know I'm a bitter person, but I am free in all the ways that you are not. Nature is a constant strive for title of the strongest, the most intelligent, and the most cunning. Humanity in general is caught up in a dream where everything lives together harmoniously, blindly unaware that many damn themselves to be the last men. It only thanks to those who strive, those who break the limits, the "rules," the false idea of fairness, that humanity has been able to come so far while the rest help make humanity fall so low."

Rena had a genuine look of total confusion on her face at hearing that. "What does that have to do with anything? Why not help those who cannot help themselves, being ethical doesn't make you less free, unless you want the freedom to do evil and unethical things. Why not allow others to better themselves, we are above animals, and that is why we have ethics and morality, to keep us from becoming them." She said, beaming with optimism. She then sat down and tried to make a little bit of ice on the guys lips to stick them shut.

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Kintain
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Posts: 364
Founded: Jan 05, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kintain » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:01 pm

Pragia wrote:
Kintain wrote:
Jack sneered, "maybe if we listened to Darwin, Nietzsche, and whatnot, we'd actually be living life as it was meant to be lived instead up of desperately trying to control that which does not need controlling. Yes, I know I'm a bitter person, but I am free in all the ways that you are not. Nature is a constant strive for title of the strongest, the most intelligent, and the most cunning. Humanity in general is caught up in a dream where everything lives together harmoniously, blindly unaware that many damn themselves to be the last men. It only thanks to those who strive, those who break the limits, the "rules," the false idea of fairness, that humanity has been able to come so far while the rest help make humanity fall so low."

Rena had a genuine look of total confusion on her face at hearing that. "What does that have to do with anything? Why not help those who cannot help themselves, being ethical doesn't make you less free, unless you want the freedom to do evil and unethical things. Why not allow others to better themselves, we are above animals, and that is why we have ethics and morality, to keep us from becoming them." She said, beaming with optimism. She then sat down and tried to make a little bit of ice on the guys lips to stick them shut.


Jack roared with laughter, "HAHAHA!!!! you...hehehe.. you think us better than animals? Hahaha!!! You are like the rest of them, think our superiority is declared in the rules we place on ourselves, that it makes us noble and righteous. Hehehehe... I've got new for you, Nature, the world, the universe has not an ounce of care for these ethics. Nobility and righteousness means nothing in the grand picture. They're just hare-brained ideas of weaklings trying to find something they can use to declare how good, how much better they are than others." Jack felt his lips growing cold, wiping his lips, he found ice forming upon his lips, smiling he looked straight at this girl who sat next to Thomas, "Oh? So the brute enforces now?"
Political: Centrist
Religion: N/A, Atheist
Philosophy: Nihilistic, still expanding upon it and finding myself further

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Pragia
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Founded: May 08, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Pragia » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:10 pm

Kintain wrote:
Pragia wrote:Rena had a genuine look of total confusion on her face at hearing that. "What does that have to do with anything? Why not help those who cannot help themselves, being ethical doesn't make you less free, unless you want the freedom to do evil and unethical things. Why not allow others to better themselves, we are above animals, and that is why we have ethics and morality, to keep us from becoming them." She said, beaming with optimism. She then sat down and tried to make a little bit of ice on the guys lips to stick them shut.


Jack roared with laughter, "HAHAHA!!!! you...hehehe.. you think us better than animals? Hahaha!!! You are like the rest of them, think our superiority is declared in the rules we place on ourselves, that it makes us noble and righteous. Hehehehe... I've got new for you, Nature, the world, the universe has not an ounce of care for these ethics. Nobility and righteousness means nothing in the grand picture. They're just hare-brained ideas of weaklings trying to find something they can use to declare how good, how much better they are than others." Jack felt his lips growing cold, wiping his lips, he found ice forming upon his lips, smiling he looked straight at this girl who sat next to Thomas, "Oh? So the brute enforces now?"

Thomas stood at this point, defending his sister, "Yes, because you're not to hair-brained when you decide to jump random people and shoot lasers at them. Thank you for demonstrating your views on animalism, and what are you talking about? 'Brute enforcing power?'

Thomas was genuinely confused as to what he was talking about. Hell, he didn't even know Rena had superpowers beyond zapping a couple people. He was also surprised by her composure, since last time he talked to her she was a literal and figurative ball of energy.

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Kintain
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 364
Founded: Jan 05, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kintain » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:15 pm

Pragia wrote:
Kintain wrote:
Jack roared with laughter, "HAHAHA!!!! you...hehehe.. you think us better than animals? Hahaha!!! You are like the rest of them, think our superiority is declared in the rules we place on ourselves, that it makes us noble and righteous. Hehehehe... I've got new for you, Nature, the world, the universe has not an ounce of care for these ethics. Nobility and righteousness means nothing in the grand picture. They're just hare-brained ideas of weaklings trying to find something they can use to declare how good, how much better they are than others." Jack felt his lips growing cold, wiping his lips, he found ice forming upon his lips, smiling he looked straight at this girl who sat next to Thomas, "Oh? So the brute enforces now?"

Thomas stood at this point, defending his sister, "Yes, because you're not too hair-brained when you decide to jump random people and shoot lasers at them. Thank you for demonstrating your views on animalism, and what are you talking about? 'Brute enforcing power?'

Thomas was genuinely confused as to what he was talking about. Hell, he didn't even know Rena had superpowers beyond zapping a couple people. He was also surprised by her composure, since last time he talked to her she was a literal and figurative ball of energy.


"Let's see, what was that quote? Yes, I believe it went something like, 'your god guarantees my insanity, but may I ask? Who guarantees your god's sanity?'" A cruel smile danced upon Jack's face, "Don't you think it's even a bit insane to believe that something that has had no reason and no place for existence, up until man appeared, is real?" Jack rested his head on one arm propped up onto his desk, "Or are ethics, morals, and religion just... 'political'?"
Political: Centrist
Religion: N/A, Atheist
Philosophy: Nihilistic, still expanding upon it and finding myself further

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Altruistic Paladins
Senator
 
Posts: 4135
Founded: Feb 23, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Altruistic Paladins » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:17 pm

"I may be ignorant, but I did read 'On the Genealogy of Morality' at one point, and it seems Charles Darwin disagrees with what you think Charles Darwin thought of society and the application of 'survival of the fittest' principles to it. Did or did not Darwin say something along the lines of the capability of morality present in humans and other animals being more important than intelligence? He very distinctively said that there is no benefit to be gained from letting the sick die. What about his statement that only tribal societies use 'natural selection', tribal societies which he said would be inevitably be displaced by civilized societies? He also made it very clear that he was a big fan of public education, arguing that molded developing brains to into the best they can be by laws, culture, public opinion, and excellence, improving everyone's condition for what is still survival of the fittest. Of course, Charles Darwin could have changed his mind. Did you read any of Darwin's communications or works which suggests Darwin changed his views on the need for deadly competition between humans? I am very curious, as it was the only work of his I have read yet. I need endorsements to know if I should stand-by a position," Sakura oddly pondered. It was not fast, and was rather distant despite the same confused tone being present.

---

"Well, that is good to know. Is there any other information I need to know, hazards I should know about, maybe some general safety tips that could be of use to my time spent in there and potentially regenerating?" Bramwell asked. As his legs patrolled in the relatively poor space for pacing, Bramwell tried miserably to distract himself from horrible outcomes he foresaw. Oddly, he could not think of rather outlandish failures like he usually could. Instead, all he could think of was a potential death of Antonio. It was worse than the overstated scenarios of a single wrong hit causing a team in the simulation to commit blue-on-blue fights.
Last edited by Altruistic Paladins on Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:02 am, edited 10 times in total.
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Camicon
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14377
Founded: Aug 26, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Camicon » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:34 pm

Kintain wrote:
Pragia wrote:Thomas stood at this point, defending his sister, "Yes, because you're not too hair-brained when you decide to jump random people and shoot lasers at them. Thank you for demonstrating your views on animalism, and what are you talking about? 'Brute enforcing power?'

Thomas was genuinely confused as to what he was talking about. Hell, he didn't even know Rena had superpowers beyond zapping a couple people. He was also surprised by her composure, since last time he talked to her she was a literal and figurative ball of energy.


"Let's see, what was that quote? Yes, I believe it went something like, 'your god guarantees my insanity, but may I ask? Who guarantees your god's sanity?'" A cruel smile danced upon Jack's face, "Don't you think it's even a bit insane to believe that something that has had no reason and no place for existence, up until man appeared, is real?" Jack rested his head on one arm propped up onto his desk, "Or are ethics, morals, and religion just... 'political'?"

I tried to stay out of the discussion, but as seemed to be happening more and more frequently, I lost my patience with the immoral lunatics that this headmaster stocked this place with.

"You're an idiot. Ethics, morals, religion, politics... they aren't human constructs. They aren't wild imaginings used to restrain and constrain. Can you hold a ball of anger? Can you hand me a brick of envy? Does that make those any less real? These things aren't human concepts, they exist independent of us. We simply observe them, and use words to define them."

"And, regardless of whether or not you think ethics and morals exist, other people do. In fact, the vast majority of people do, because the vast majority of people don't share your sociopathic tendencies. Understanding social conduct is vital if you want to live in society, and in today's world, there are very few places you can go to escape it. And proper social conduct is defined almost entirely by what the majority agrees is moral and ethical behaviour."

"If you dismiss morals and ethics, and try living without them, you'll quickly find that society does not appreciate you, nor care to capitulate to your demands. Their response is usually swift, and most often violent. You find yourself dead, or spend the rest of you life behind bars. What's truly unfortunate is people like you, that colour the public perception of people with our sorts of abilities so darkly, that our simple existence is viewed as immoral and dangerous."
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Corrian
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Posts: 74852
Founded: Mar 19, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Corrian » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:49 pm

Cassie out out a quiet groan and a sigh to herself. She swore this class always just gave her a headache. It certainly didn't help her mood in the slightest. As if she wasn't in a bad mood and mindset already, she had to avoid getting too angry just listening to people debating. Thankfully, being her, she didn't get THAT easily angered, depending what the subject matter was or what was going on. But she tried her hardest to actually listen, too, because she wanted to be a good student and pay attention to class, not just sneak on some music and completely block out the class. So with her head still plopped onto her desk, she tried her best to still and listen to the class, though she honestly hoped the teacher would move things on soon again before the arguing back and forth got out of hand.
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Kershya
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kershya » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:08 pm

"Antonio's mind might be more fluid that what you're used to, and I only have one tip. Beware the Light." Gregorio warned, "Any form of light if possible. We may not notice someone or something masquerading as a light bulb, or a wisp, or the sun." he then turn to John, "The Mana elemental has to symbolize Light. Which leaves Death, Balance, and the Void without their chosen. Just to be on the safe side, double the magical protections of the school."
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Retro Frost
Envoy
 
Posts: 297
Founded: Feb 07, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Retro Frost » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:01 pm

Wilson had been quiet the entire argument. He thought all of them arguing was hilarious, they were all trying to prove that their view on the world was the correct one, when the point was how did everyone else's ethics fit within the relative standard that was widely accepted by the masses of regular humans, and how would their power usage fit within these ethics. He had been waiting very impatiently for a opportunity to join the conversation, he soon found a good time and decided to jump in.

"How about we agree that arguing that each one of our own ethical views is a waste of time and we focus on the real application with power ethics. Arguing that each one of our own relative views on the are correct, maybe a good mental exercise, but it misses the point that when it comes to the big picture our own views don't really matter. Because maybe you believe that killing prisoners, criminals or whatever is just, it won't be seen that way by the people down there" Wilson pointed down towards where he assumed was the Earth.

"They don't care how you act within your own believes, what they care about is how you act within their believes. Because no matter how you see it they still have a 'slight' numbers and materials advantage over us. So it's best that we act within their ethics so they don't eventually induce an explosive decompression on this station and kill all of us, because they will, if we act on our own twisted ethical beliefs." said Wilson. Once he was done talking, he mentally sighed and hoped for the best.
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