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Suriyanakhon
Minister
 
Posts: 2348
Founded: Apr 27, 2020
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Suriyanakhon » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:10 pm

Orostan wrote:
Suriyanakhon wrote:
He'd be absolutely horrified by your state's tyranny, which is worse than pretty much any state's up until the industrial age.

tyranny is when you try and establish the conditions for democracy and do stuff to industrialize the country. The more you industrialize the country the more tyranny you have.


"Do not worry, we will kill all the bandit children just for you when the main army arrives."


lmao.
Resident Drowned Victorian Waif & Theravada Buddhist
dO yOu LiStEn tO gIrL iN rEd
Socialist & Herderian Nationalist

User avatar
Orostan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5771
Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:19 pm

Suriyanakhon wrote:
Orostan wrote:tyranny is when you try and establish the conditions for democracy and do stuff to industrialize the country. The more you industrialize the country the more tyranny you have.


"Do not worry, we will kill all the bandit children just for you when the main army arrives."


lmao.

genocide tends to happen in these types of situation. Government policy is against genocide - they shouldn't be doing that. But it will happen anyway because of how violent the war is.

Endem wrote:
Orostan wrote:tyranny is when you try and establish the conditions for democracy and do stuff to industrialize the country. The more you industrialize the country the more tyranny you have.

Aren't you literary killing whole villages over rebels having blended into their population? Doesn't seem very democratic.

crimes against humanity tend to happen during genocidal wars. The first villages massacred were Chinese ones.

Saxony-Brandenburg wrote:
Orostan wrote:tyranny is when you try and establish the conditions for democracy and do stuff to industrialize the country. The more you industrialize the country the more tyranny you have.

You can only do such a defense comrade if you were actually improving the quality of life for those beneath you. But from the sound of things, you're throwing scores of sons into the meatgrinder, causing famine through mass depopulation of the countryside, and just taxing the hell out of the peasantry.

EDIT: YES! Actually. Tearing people from the land is a fucking HORRIFYING PROCESS. No shit it's tyrannical. Industrialization is tyrannical. It has to be! You have to move mouthes from the countryside to the city center. It has to be violent.

China does not really have taxes like you might be thinking of them, and the quality of life has improved dramatically - that's why the war is being fought! The guys who didn't get much from that improvement want something!

I didn't cause the war that is happening right now - idiot bandits did.

Also industrialization is good and only had to be forced because early capitalism was incapable of doing it any other way. The industrial revolution was still the best thing that ever happened to humanity.

Saxony-Brandenburg wrote:
Orostan wrote:Florian Geyer was not exactly a religious man himself. Besides that my empire isn't explicitly atheist - it just maintains that the spiritual world and the state should be kept separate, as the state is made of men and not gods. They probably would have preferred what I have to feudal tyranny.

The black band fought alongside the preacher Thomas Muntzer, who believed he was bringing about God's will on earth by ushering in the end of days.

"Geyer is reputed to have had the words "Nulla crux, nulla corona" (Neither cross nor crown) scratched on the blade of his sword.[1] All sides credited him with the wanton destruction of cathedrals and castles, and summary executions of the lords and priests contained therein."
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
Ernest Hemingway wrote:Anyone who loves freedom owes such a debt to the Red Army that it can never be repaid.
#FreeNSGRojava

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Saxony-Brandenburg
Minister
 
Posts: 2401
Founded: Mar 07, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Saxony-Brandenburg » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:27 pm

Orostan wrote:
Saxony-Brandenburg wrote:The black band fought alongside the preacher Thomas Muntzer, who believed he was bringing about God's will on earth by ushering in the end of days.

"Geyer is reputed to have had the words "Nulla crux, nulla corona" (Neither cross nor crown) scratched on the blade of his sword.[1] All sides credited him with the wanton destruction of cathedrals and castles, and summary executions of the lords and priests contained therein."


You cannot understand the peasants revolt and Geyer individually outside of the setting of the protestant reformation and its social ramifications.
Last edited by Saxony-Brandenburg on Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"When Adam delved and Eve span, who was then the gentleman?"

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Orostan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5771
Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:32 pm

Saxony-Brandenburg wrote:
Orostan wrote:
"Geyer is reputed to have had the words "Nulla crux, nulla corona" (Neither cross nor crown) scratched on the blade of his sword.[1] All sides credited him with the wanton destruction of cathedrals and castles, and summary executions of the lords and priests contained therein."


You cannot understand the peasants revolt and Geyer individually outside of the setting of the protestant reformation and its social ramifications.

No shit but Geyer himself did not seem to have much respect for religion.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
Ernest Hemingway wrote:Anyone who loves freedom owes such a debt to the Red Army that it can never be repaid.
#FreeNSGRojava

User avatar
Saxony-Brandenburg
Minister
 
Posts: 2401
Founded: Mar 07, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Saxony-Brandenburg » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:37 pm

Orostan wrote:
Saxony-Brandenburg wrote:
You cannot understand the peasants revolt and Geyer individually outside of the setting of the protestant reformation and its social ramifications.

No shit but Geyer himself did not seem to have much respect for religion.

Neither did the entire peasants' revolt! Why? The revolt was using the social reality of its time, Christianity, as its basis. Because it wasn't about destroying religion. The execution of priests and the destruction of churches and monasteries was a revolt against the social institutions of Catholicism which the cross and the crown represented! We will not know what Florein Geyer personally thought about the idea of 'religion' because he's dead, but the historical moment he was a part of was not atheist in any sense of the word. It was highly Christian, just understood in a radically new way.
"When Adam delved and Eve span, who was then the gentleman?"

User avatar
Saxony-Brandenburg
Minister
 
Posts: 2401
Founded: Mar 07, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Saxony-Brandenburg » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:38 pm

Also my tag is a quote by John Ball not Geyer, just by the by. :3
"When Adam delved and Eve span, who was then the gentleman?"

User avatar
Orostan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5771
Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:39 pm

Saxony-Brandenburg wrote:
Orostan wrote:No shit but Geyer himself did not seem to have much respect for religion.

Neither did the entire peasants' revolt! Why? The revolt was using the social reality of its time, Christianity, as its basis. Because it wasn't about destroying religion. The execution of priests and the destruction of churches and monasteries was a revolt against the social institutions of Catholicism which the cross and the crown represented! We will not know what Florein Geyer personally thought about the idea of 'religion' because he's dead, but the historical moment he was a part of was not atheist in any sense of the word. It was highly Christian, just understood in a radically new way.

Florian Geyer seemed to believe in some degree of secularism from that inscription on his sword. We are talking about the man and not the movement he was part of. The German peasants might not agree with some stuff I'm doing in the RP but I believe Geyer might have had less objections.

Saxony-Brandenburg wrote:Also my tag is a quote by John Ball not Geyer, just by the by. :3

I know it from the song about Geyer, my bad.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
Ernest Hemingway wrote:Anyone who loves freedom owes such a debt to the Red Army that it can never be repaid.
#FreeNSGRojava

User avatar
Saxony-Brandenburg
Minister
 
Posts: 2401
Founded: Mar 07, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Saxony-Brandenburg » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:42 pm

Orostan wrote:
Saxony-Brandenburg wrote:Also my tag is a quote by John Ball not Geyer, just by the by. :3

I know it from the song about Geyer, my bad.


It's okay. I too sing Wir Sind des Geyers Schwarzer Haufen to myself at night. Though I do prefer "Sing John Ball"
Last edited by Saxony-Brandenburg on Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"When Adam delved and Eve span, who was then the gentleman?"

User avatar
Northern Socialist Council Republics
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1600
Founded: Dec 13, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Northern Socialist Council Republics » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:48 pm

We are the seed that will birth a new world,
Churches and castles we’ll burn to the ground!


I’m sorry, what were we talking about? :p
Call me "Russ" if you're referring to me the out-of-character poster or "NSRS" if you're referring to me the in-character nation.
Previously on Plzen. NationStates-er since 2014.

Social-democrat and hardline secularist.
Come roleplay with us. We have cookies.

User avatar
Orostan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5771
Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:51 pm

Northern Socialist Council Republics wrote:We are the seed that will birth a new world,
Churches and castles we’ll burn to the ground!


I’m sorry, what were we talking about? :p

I have begun a campaign to start as many forest fires as possible in the shortest amount of time possible.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
Ernest Hemingway wrote:Anyone who loves freedom owes such a debt to the Red Army that it can never be repaid.
#FreeNSGRojava

User avatar
Saxony-Brandenburg
Minister
 
Posts: 2401
Founded: Mar 07, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Saxony-Brandenburg » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:56 pm

"When Adam delved and Eve span, who was then the gentleman?"

User avatar
Ralnis
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27499
Founded: Aug 06, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ralnis » Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:25 pm

When the future Chariot Horde is more preferable than the YRS for the common peasant.

User avatar
Joohan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5788
Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Joohan » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:07 pm

hey suri, i'll answer your weird horse pee question later.

i'm gonna take a quick turkey and whisky nap, then write up your shen response
If you need a witness look to yourself

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism!


User avatar
Orostan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5771
Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:50 pm


based

Ralnis wrote:When the future Chariot Horde is more preferable than the YRS for the common peasant.

no
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
Ernest Hemingway wrote:Anyone who loves freedom owes such a debt to the Red Army that it can never be repaid.
#FreeNSGRojava

User avatar
The Hierophancy
Diplomat
 
Posts: 989
Founded: Oct 24, 2016
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby The Hierophancy » Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:05 pm

Saxony-Brandenburg wrote:
Orostan wrote:tyranny is when you try and establish the conditions for democracy and do stuff to industrialize the country. The more you industrialize the country the more tyranny you have.


EDIT: YES! Actually. Tearing people from the land is a fucking HORRIFYING PROCESS. No shit it's tyrannical. Industrialization is tyrannical. It has to be! You have to move mouthes from the countryside to the city center. It has to be violent.

Agrarian Industrialization is the future of the past

User avatar
Ralnis
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27499
Founded: Aug 06, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ralnis » Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:18 am

Orostan wrote:
Ralnis wrote:When the future Chariot Horde is more preferable than the YRS for the common peasant.

no

I can see it.

User avatar
Joohan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5788
Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Joohan » Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:39 pm

2nd ic post done,

now the shen response
If you need a witness look to yourself

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism!


User avatar
Orostan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5771
Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:54 pm

Joohan wrote:2nd ic post done,

now the shen response

I like the post a lot - I hope your guys go in the direction of China!
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
Ernest Hemingway wrote:Anyone who loves freedom owes such a debt to the Red Army that it can never be repaid.
#FreeNSGRojava

User avatar
Joohan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5788
Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Joohan » Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:24 pm

Suriyanakhon wrote:So guys, since Hanajima has started trying to domesticate horses and breed them (with the help of former horse worshiping tribes incorporated in the empire) I had a question.
The archaeologist Timothy Taylor in his 1996 book The Prehistory of Sex proposed a theory that Enarei drank pregnant mare urine to induce hormonal feminization.[10] He bases his theory on some pastoralist peoples custom of consuming animal urine,[10] Ovid poems mentioning virus amantis equae ("slime/flux of mare in heat") as an ingredient (in Medicamina Faciei Femineae it is a "baneful"/"hurtful" one) witches would use[11][12] and modern usage of conjugated equine estrogens for transfeminine hormone replacement therapy. Despite the lack of direct evidence, this idea has gained popularity and has been both cited[13][14] and passed off as a fact[15] on the Internet.


Could I realistically do this?


Okay, I looked it up. It doesn't really seem like it has much of a basis in affecting the gender of the baby. There are other external factors which can push a baby to becoming male or female ( diet and stress for example ), but drinking mare urine doesn't appear to be one of them.

You can go ahead and drink as much of it as you want though, I won't stop you.
If you need a witness look to yourself

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism!


User avatar
Saxony-Brandenburg
Minister
 
Posts: 2401
Founded: Mar 07, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Saxony-Brandenburg » Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:26 pm

Joohan wrote:
Suriyanakhon wrote:So guys, since Hanajima has started trying to domesticate horses and breed them (with the help of former horse worshiping tribes incorporated in the empire) I had a question.

Could I realistically do this?


Okay, I looked it up. It doesn't really seem like it has much of a basis in affecting the gender of the baby. There are other external factors which can push a baby to becoming male or female ( diet and stress for example ), but drinking mare urine doesn't appear to be one of them.

You can go ahead and drink as much of it as you want though, I won't stop you.

She’s not talking about making babies friendo, she’s talking about Bronze Age HRT for you know the estrogen.
"When Adam delved and Eve span, who was then the gentleman?"

User avatar
Suriyanakhon
Minister
 
Posts: 2348
Founded: Apr 27, 2020
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Suriyanakhon » Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:27 pm

Joohan wrote:
Suriyanakhon wrote:So guys, since Hanajima has started trying to domesticate horses and breed them (with the help of former horse worshiping tribes incorporated in the empire) I had a question.

Could I realistically do this?


Okay, I looked it up. It doesn't really seem like it has much of a basis in affecting the gender of the baby. There are other external factors which can push a baby to becoming male or female ( diet and stress for example ), but drinking mare urine doesn't appear to be one of them.

You can go ahead and drink as much of it as you want though, I won't stop you.


Oh, no, that wasn't the purpose I intended sorry. The Enaree were effeminate priests who possibly drank mare urine to feminize themselves. I wondered if this would realistically work for full grown adults who wanted feminine characteristics.
Resident Drowned Victorian Waif & Theravada Buddhist
dO yOu LiStEn tO gIrL iN rEd
Socialist & Herderian Nationalist

User avatar
Joohan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5788
Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Joohan » Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:29 pm

Orostan wrote:
Joohan wrote:2nd ic post done,

now the shen response

I like the post a lot - I hope your guys go in the direction of China!


Thanks,

I liked where you got the name for the confederacy from in your post. Instead of just taking a cookie cutter korean name, you took an actual geographic feature and gave it an original name, and from things based in nature.

It's original and I dig it.
If you need a witness look to yourself

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism!


User avatar
Joohan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5788
Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Joohan » Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:30 pm

Suriyanakhon wrote:
Joohan wrote:
Okay, I looked it up. It doesn't really seem like it has much of a basis in affecting the gender of the baby. There are other external factors which can push a baby to becoming male or female ( diet and stress for example ), but drinking mare urine doesn't appear to be one of them.

You can go ahead and drink as much of it as you want though, I won't stop you.


Oh, no, that wasn't the purpose I intended sorry. The Enaree were effeminate priests who possibly drank mare urine to feminize themselves. I wondered if this would realistically work for full grown adults who wanted feminine characteristics.


OOOh, okay let me do a bit more research then. I thought you were trying to affect the baby making process - gimme a minute.
If you need a witness look to yourself

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism!


User avatar
Joohan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5788
Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Joohan » Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:42 pm

Suriyanakhon wrote:
Joohan wrote:
Okay, I looked it up. It doesn't really seem like it has much of a basis in affecting the gender of the baby. There are other external factors which can push a baby to becoming male or female ( diet and stress for example ), but drinking mare urine doesn't appear to be one of them.

You can go ahead and drink as much of it as you want though, I won't stop you.


Oh, no, that wasn't the purpose I intended sorry. The Enaree were effeminate priests who possibly drank mare urine to feminize themselves. I wondered if this would realistically work for full grown adults who wanted feminine characteristics.


Okay, so, just cursory look, it does appear that mare urine does infact posses an inordinate amount of estrogen in it. Usually this is concentrated into medicine, but it's not at all inconceivable that even in it's base state it could effect hormonal balance of an individual, given consistent consumption.

I could go hours into a deep research dive, but there does appear to be something like a historical precedent with the Enaree at least so... yeah, this gets a go ahead.
If you need a witness look to yourself

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism!


User avatar
Suriyanakhon
Minister
 
Posts: 2348
Founded: Apr 27, 2020
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Suriyanakhon » Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:45 pm

Joohan wrote:
Suriyanakhon wrote:
Oh, no, that wasn't the purpose I intended sorry. The Enaree were effeminate priests who possibly drank mare urine to feminize themselves. I wondered if this would realistically work for full grown adults who wanted feminine characteristics.


Okay, so, just cursory look, it does appear that mare urine does infact posses an inordinate amount of estrogen in it. Usually this is concentrated into medicine, but it's not at all inconceivable that even in it's base state it could effect hormonal balance of an individual, given consistent consumption.

I could go hours into a deep research dive, but there does appear to be something like a historical precedent with the Enaree at least so... yeah, this gets a go ahead.


Based thanks, next post after the Shen response will include a segment about the hip new trend in Hanamura.
Resident Drowned Victorian Waif & Theravada Buddhist
dO yOu LiStEn tO gIrL iN rEd
Socialist & Herderian Nationalist

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