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Abbeyverne
Envoy
 
Posts: 289
Founded: Jun 27, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Abbeyverne » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:24 pm

Tysklandia wrote:
Abbeyverne wrote:Hello! Is anyone there? The thread has gone silent, IDK about the Discord...


For myself, I have nothing else to post for Fondor until it actually "happens".

1: Kuat and Teta are prepping a secondary event, surrounding AZURE command for the moment. In discussion with DRAOS, we picked a third player to "play" Azure Command for us, could you confirm you are fine with that?
2: I reckon we have some leeway in organising the whole deal, keeping in mind we don't go overboard and all that.
We would be planning it to be a form of Imperial civil war escalation between Teta (Independant Imperial), Azure Command (NPC / Imperial Hardliner / unreasonable figure) and Kuat ( Nominal Loyalist )

A few, extra questions.

3: We assume the Emperor cloning ordeal isn't Cannon. Can you confirm? Some Imperial characters would be aware, so it would change things.
3A: If the cloning ordeal isn't Cannon, could we mayhaps have clarity on who sits on Corrussant.
3B: If Mas Ameda is the official successor, does he sit on Corrussant as in new disney cannon? In crux, entirely powerless and more or less a Joke? If so, we'd assume the true power of Corrussant is Azure Command itself. Mayhaps modelled more after Legends than Disney Cannon
3C: We would propose to have Pestage flee to Byss, where he leads a contigent of hardline Imperial loyalists, nearing a true Sith cult. But most of the Imperial armed forces ignoring his commands, the rest assembling around Byss. Likely Biding his time to strike? Waiting things out? It could be a neat Imperial remnant force to act as a "balancing" force in the region that would keep all the players in the Core on their toes.

4: What is the NR capitol at this point in time?
5: Can you give a short description on what you want their territories to be?
6: The same for Imperial Remnant territory (NPC?)
Teta can use it to work on his map when he has time.


1: Absolutely!
2: That sounds really cool!
3: Correct, not cannon
a: Mas is "in charge."
b: Correct.
c: That would be perfect.
4: The NR is going to be on Chandrila at this point.
5: Most of the mid rim, some strategic outer rim worlds, progressing towards the core.
6: Mostly in the core, and some holdouts in the outer rim.


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Lotrisia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 48
Founded: Nov 23, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Lotrisia » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:19 am

Abbeyverne wrote:
Tysklandia wrote:
For myself, I have nothing else to post for Fondor until it actually "happens".

1: Kuat and Teta are prepping a secondary event, surrounding AZURE command for the moment. In discussion with DRAOS, we picked a third player to "play" Azure Command for us, could you confirm you are fine with that?
2: I reckon we have some leeway in organising the whole deal, keeping in mind we don't go overboard and all that.
We would be planning it to be a form of Imperial civil war escalation between Teta (Independant Imperial), Azure Command (NPC / Imperial Hardliner / unreasonable figure) and Kuat ( Nominal Loyalist )

A few, extra questions.

3: We assume the Emperor cloning ordeal isn't Cannon. Can you confirm? Some Imperial characters would be aware, so it would change things.
3A: If the cloning ordeal isn't Cannon, could we mayhaps have clarity on who sits on Corrussant.
3B: If Mas Ameda is the official successor, does he sit on Corrussant as in new disney cannon? In crux, entirely powerless and more or less a Joke? If so, we'd assume the true power of Corrussant is Azure Command itself. Mayhaps modelled more after Legends than Disney Cannon
3C: We would propose to have Pestage flee to Byss, where he leads a contigent of hardline Imperial loyalists, nearing a true Sith cult. But most of the Imperial armed forces ignoring his commands, the rest assembling around Byss. Likely Biding his time to strike? Waiting things out? It could be a neat Imperial remnant force to act as a "balancing" force in the region that would keep all the players in the Core on their toes.

4: What is the NR capitol at this point in time?
5: Can you give a short description on what you want their territories to be?
6: The same for Imperial Remnant territory (NPC?)
Teta can use it to work on his map when he has time.


1: Absolutely!
2: That sounds really cool!
3: Correct, not cannon
a: Mas is "in charge."
b: Correct.
c: That would be perfect.
4: The NR is going to be on Chandrila at this point.
5: Most of the mid rim, some strategic outer rim worlds, progressing towards the core.
6: Mostly in the core, and some holdouts in the outer rim.


May I suggest that we have the NR capital currently be placed on Mon Cala as a temporary capital, with a view of moving to Chandrila as a more legitimate one once the NR has mad enough inroads in that region for it to be safe?

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Tysklandia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 734
Founded: Apr 15, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Tysklandia » Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:40 am

Lotrisia wrote:
Abbeyverne wrote:
1: Absolutely!
2: That sounds really cool!
3: Correct, not cannon
a: Mas is "in charge."
b: Correct.
c: That would be perfect.
4: The NR is going to be on Chandrila at this point.
5: Most of the mid rim, some strategic outer rim worlds, progressing towards the core.
6: Mostly in the core, and some holdouts in the outer rim.


May I suggest that we have the NR capital currently be placed on Mon Cala as a temporary capital, with a view of moving to Chandrila as a more legitimate one once the NR has mad enough inroads in that region for it to be safe?



If the NR capital IS chandrilla, it will fall immediately. They can't be reinforced and are entirely surrounded by Imperial forces.
It would make little to no sense for a world that is actively being blockaded to be heralded as the NR capitol at this time in my opinion.

People can't even freely travel to the planet without risking the Imperial blockade over the planet, as Chandrilla is technically part of Azure Command territory at this point in time. Chandrilla isn't a fortress world either and would be under continued blockade. It wouldn't require a massive fleet to bring that planet to heel I'd say.
Last edited by Tysklandia on Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Abbeyverne
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Posts: 289
Founded: Jun 27, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Abbeyverne » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:19 am

Tysklandia wrote:
Lotrisia wrote:
May I suggest that we have the NR capital currently be placed on Mon Cala as a temporary capital, with a view of moving to Chandrila as a more legitimate one once the NR has mad enough inroads in that region for it to be safe?



If the NR capital IS chandrilla, it will fall immediately. They can't be reinforced and are entirely surrounded by Imperial forces.
It would make little to no sense for a world that is actively being blockaded to be heralded as the NR capitol at this time in my opinion.

People can't even freely travel to the planet without risking the Imperial blockade over the planet, as Chandrilla is technically part of Azure Command territory at this point in time. Chandrilla isn't a fortress world either and would be under continued blockade. It wouldn't require a massive fleet to bring that planet to heel I'd say.


Certainly, I'm sorry, Mon Cala makes more sense.


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Abbeyverne
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Posts: 289
Founded: Jun 27, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Abbeyverne » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:14 pm

Well, here we go! Let the Battle of Fondor begin! And the PA starts with a disadvantage (limited fighters and, good Lord, what's up with Kaine!?).
Last edited by Abbeyverne on Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Tysklandia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 734
Founded: Apr 15, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Tysklandia » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:25 pm

Abbeyverne wrote:Well, here we go! Let the Battle of Fondor begin! And the PA starts with a disadvantage (limited fighters and, good Lord, what's up with Kaine!?).


I double checked the rule page and I saw you filtered out a lot of what I proposed. To ensure everything is clear, i'm going to drop a few more questions here, to double check why you abandoned those proposals.
I feel like those changes you made, makes them ineffective and largely pointless.

(WHERE) Entering hyperspace, Interdiction and Escaping :


* Their will be no traffic, outside of planetary orbit. Every single battle would still be performed in planetary orbits. "Trade ships", convoys or anything of the sort would be impossible to intercept without interdiction as they will simply "jump" from one planetary orbit to another.
* If these "egress" points are stations, planets and/or systems, then people will always travel to the safest point, likely being the fortified or secured planetary orbits. This doesn't also doesn't answer how "close" these egress points are to a planetary surface.
* If one can skip entire systems on the route at will, then their is no form of defence. The entire NR Navy could travel to Corrussant right now, as I assume they hold access to the Permillian route, and bypass all Imperial remnant in between whenever they desire.

(WHEN) Entering hyperspace, Interdiction and Escaping :

"Hyperspace calculations will take time increasing with the length of the flight, calculations cannot be made while in hyperspace, and"

* This does not solve the issue. If you wish to flee, making an extremely short jump is enough. You can then make longer calculations in relative, if temporary, safety to ensure a long term escape.

Planets and ground warfare :

"Orbital bombardment is acceptable, but can be easily overridden by a planetary shield, necessitating a ground attack. Also, orbital bombardment is not precise, and will hit friendly units or non combatants if present."

* Simply making Orbital bombardment inaccurate, does not solve the issue. The only thing this will ensure is that the only method of ensuring planetary defence, is to use mass human shields and hiding in population centers. Added with hoping that your enemy actually gives a damn about mass civilian casualties.

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Abbeyverne
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Posts: 289
Founded: Jun 27, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Abbeyverne » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:38 pm

Tysklandia wrote:
Abbeyverne wrote:Well, here we go! Let the Battle of Fondor begin! And the PA starts with a disadvantage (limited fighters and, good Lord, what's up with Kaine!?).


I double checked the rule page and I saw you filtered out a lot of what I proposed. To ensure everything is clear, i'm going to drop a few more questions here, to double check why you abandoned those proposals.
I feel like those changes you made, makes them ineffective and largely pointless.

(WHERE) Entering hyperspace, Interdiction and Escaping :


* Their will be no traffic, outside of planetary orbit. Every single battle would still be performed in planetary orbits. "Trade ships", convoys or anything of the sort would be impossible to intercept without interdiction as they will simply "jump" from one planetary orbit to another.
* If these "egress" points are stations, planets and/or systems, then people will always travel to the safest point, likely being the fortified or secured planetary orbits. This doesn't also doesn't answer how "close" these egress points are to a planetary surface.
* If one can skip entire systems on the route at will, then their is no form of defence. The entire NR Navy could travel to Corrussant right now, as I assume they hold access to the Permillian route, and bypass all Imperial remnant in between whenever they desire.

(WHEN) Entering hyperspace, Interdiction and Escaping :

"Hyperspace calculations will take time increasing with the length of the flight, calculations cannot be made while in hyperspace, and"

* This does not solve the issue. If you wish to flee, making an extremely short jump is enough. You can then make longer calculations in relative, if temporary, safety to ensure a long term escape.

Planets and ground warfare :

"Orbital bombardment is acceptable, but can be easily overridden by a planetary shield, necessitating a ground attack. Also, orbital bombardment is not precise, and will hit friendly units or non combatants if present."

* Simply making Orbital bombardment inaccurate, does not solve the issue. The only thing this will ensure is that the only method of ensuring planetary defence, is to use mass human shields and hiding in population centers. Added with hoping that your enemy actually gives a damn about mass civilian casualties.


Ok, then can you rewrite as you would find better? I see and agree with most of your points, but I want to see your thoughts verbatim. I still think the out-of-system thing does not work, because some systems are very large, so it would be very difficult to make it to an objective. Thanks!


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Thrashia
Minister
 
Posts: 2239
Founded: Aug 31, 2004
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Thrashia » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:46 pm

I'm going to suspend my pending sign-up. I'll still be here for any lore information that may be requested or help as requested, but I don't think I have the time available to commit to writing in the rp. Cheers.
FT Factbook | Thrashian HoloNet News | Newbies Need to Read This | Thrashia IIwiki


"D-Damn you all...! All of you dogs whose souls are still bound to the Earth! Long live Neo Zeon!" - MSG: Unicorn

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Abbeyverne
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Posts: 289
Founded: Jun 27, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Abbeyverne » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:23 am

Thrashia wrote:I'm going to suspend my pending sign-up. I'll still be here for any lore information that may be requested or help as requested, but I don't think I have the time available to commit to writing in the rp. Cheers.


We are sorry to see you go!


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Lotrisia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 48
Founded: Nov 23, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Hyperspace Rule Alternative Proposal

Postby Lotrisia » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:12 am

As Tysklandia has asked me to put forward my proposal for hyperspace as well, here it is

Hyperspace is possibly one of the shakiest parts of Star Wars lore. The specific rules as to when you can and can't jump, and parameters about that, aren't even poorly-defined, they're just outright contradictory in much of Star Wars lore. As such, here's my shot at some cohesive hyperspace rules.

It is theoretically possible to travel to and through anywhere in hyperspace, including directly through a planet or a black hole. This is because objects in realspace have no physical counterpart in hyperspace. However, their gravitational field does have a counterpart in hyperspace. As gravitational fields are distortions of spacetime, their counterparts in hyperspace distort the fabric of hyperspace itself. This means that any ship that travels through a gravitational field while in hyperspace will suffer some level of distortion. If you are far out from the gravity well in question, you will be fine. However, the closer your get, the more stress it places on the frame of your ship. Eventually, if you are close enough, you will be torn apart by the strain. This structural strain scales with the inverse square of the distance between your ship and the gravity well, and is directly proportional to the gravitational strength of said gravity well. That it is just maths and not super important if you aren't really technically minded. What is important is that this means that the strain increases exponentially as you get closer to the planet. This means that there is a minimum safe threshold for any ship. A ship's ability to travel closer to a gravity well will be a direct result of its structural strength. As such, warships will be able to drop out of a gravity field closer to the centre than a freighter would. Something like an ISD would be able to drop in far closer to a planet than an FSCV would.

Limitations

Even the strongest ship won't be able to drop out of hyperspace directly above the atmosphere. It'll get torn apart by the structural stress, and if anything does drop out it'd be a mangled mess of metal and crew. The usual safe distance for most warships with a planet around the mass of Earth would be ~2 million kilometres. The distance to a planet can, at full burn, probably be crossed in a couple of minutes, but as is that sort of range is far outside of engagement range and so allows orbital defences some time to get ready. Jumping in closer is possible. However, closer jumps begin to place damaging strain on the warship in question. You could theoretically jump an ISD in to ~500 000 km, the limits of engagement ranges, but you'll have to totally scrap it afterwards because the strain would have warped integral structural beams, making it a total constructive loss. If you're getting closer than that you start heavily damaging systems. Too close and you're scrap metal. Remember, though, that this is simply a limit. There is nothing stopping you from dropping in at the Kuiper belt and coming in dark to fool sensors, like Vader planned to do at Hoth.

Freighters, and civilian ships in general, are subject to much larger minimum safe distances, usually around 4x that of a warship. Some ships, like the aforementioned FSCVs, may have to jump in much further away than that. This sort of range necessitates having customs vessels and sensors to pick up inbound freighters, and to protect them against pirates. A particularly daring pirate could well snatch a freighter right outside Coruscant. Most of the time though, they'd take isolated freighters from backwater worlds without major defence forces, like Tatooine. They'd do this by hanging around the planet and pouncing on freighters that show up, then presumably leaving before sector forces can get there. Now, escorts are necessary because particularly large groups may well attack convoys, possibly using interdiction mines to rip them out of hyperspace, or just hitting them when they're far away from the planet's protection. It's not very common, but if the target's valuable you need protection just in case it does happen.

Interdiction

Interdiction is obviously a useful technology. However, its role can be expanded a bit. First some lore. Interdiction works by projecting solely the hyperspace component of the gravity well, at enormous power due to the high generation of SW ships. An interdictor's field of influence literally stops a ship from jumping, because making the jump would tear them apart. As such, they have a field in which it is impossible or at least unsafe to jump, and then a greater area in which they have some limited effect. Interdiction mines should also be present, but they won't be cheap to run long-term, since you need to continually power the field itself, which exhausts fuel very quickly. As such, only relatively rich planets will make much use of them. However, those planets that do use them can saturate their orbits with them, to be turned on in case of imminent attack. Invading forces will then be stopped much further away, and forced to either shoot their way through the minefield to actually jump closer or travel at sublight speeds.

Escaping

Escaping through hyperspace is indeed possible. However, there are a few things that must be considered. Firstly, calculating a route takes time, probably a few minutes depending on the ship making the calculations. The further away you're jumping to, the longer. Due to the cleared nature of hyperlanes, calculating an escape along one of those is also much faster than a "free" jump. When escaping, it is not possible to directly track the escapee. However, one can use algorithms that account for a number of complex variables to calculate their possible destinations, which should be pretty nearby anyway since it's faster, and then send ships there to try find them. This is the reason why "Calculate every possible destination along their last known trajectory" is a doable thing. There is a second consideration, namely battle damage. Taking a hit to a structural beam will likely weaken it, meaning that a jump that would have been safe before would become dangerous. The nav computer won't know that either, it'll just know your original strength rating. Jumping after taking damage risks disintegration on jumping. If you can trap a ship in low orbit and pound on it, you can theoretically stop it from running entirely. However, this is only if it takes integral structural damage. You can't always stop a ship, probably not even usually, which is why the Immobiliser 418 and Dominator are necessary.

Hyperlanes

Hyperlanes are areas of space that have been cleared of obstructions, presumably by major effort. Systems along hyperplanes will probably obstruct part of it, meaning it's easier to stop in at each individual one and slowboat across the system to go through. There are likely massive traffic "lanes" in systems on hyperplanes for ships that are just passing through, necessitating lots of protection and traffic control. Travelling along hyperplanes can be done much faster than through "free" space, since the ship in question will not have to manoeuvre around obstacles. This also makes them much cheaper fuel-wise to travel along, incentivising traders to use them. The larger, and thus safer, a hyperlane is, the faster it can be travelled and the cheaper travel is. Major lanes like the Hydian way are likely very large, possibly light-hours across. Others may be as small as a couple of AU, depending on how frequently-traveled and maintained the lane itself is. The bigger it is, the more expensive it is to maintain. Hyperlanes are excellent avenues to move large forces along, since they offer very quick travel.
The measurement of a ship's speed isn't going to be how fast it travels along hyperlanes, which would entail only marginal difference in time taken, but rather the speeds possible in "free" space. The differentiator of a good hyperdrive is mostly the navigation and manoeuvring system, as well as possibly its energy efficiency for a given speed.

Collisions

Now, the one people probably might want to know with this system is whether a hyperspace ram is possible. The answer is, both for gameplay purposes and lore purposes, no, since you'll pass harmlessly through them. Neither is ramming while accelerating up to or dropping out from hyperspace a truly viable tactic in anything but the most unbelievably precise situations. You will not be able to replicate the Holdo Manoeuvre, so don't try it. Even in the case that you do, any warship at full shielding should be able to take the impact fairly easily, unless you're physically bigger than them. Something like what Holdo pulled would require so many things to coincidentally come together that you'd stand a better chance of doing damage if you get out and use your fists against them. 99% of the time you miss and just enter hyperspace, 1% of the time you hit and transfer a lot of energy into the shields but do nothing of import other than totally wrecking your ship. The chances of doing meaningful damage are so small that I won't even have to bother writing them in. Just stick to turbolasers.
Last edited by Lotrisia on Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:11 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Abbeyverne
Envoy
 
Posts: 289
Founded: Jun 27, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Abbeyverne » Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:02 pm

Lotrisia wrote:As Tysklandia has asked me to put forward my proposal for hyperspace as well, here it is

Hyperspace is possibly one of the shakiest parts of Star Wars lore. The specific rules as to when you can and can't jump, and parameters about that, aren't even poorly-defined, they're just outright contradictory in much of Star Wars lore. As such, here's my shot at some cohesive hyperspace rules.

It is theoretically possible to travel to and through anywhere in hyperspace, including directly through a planet or a black hole. This is because objects in realspace have no physical counterpart in hyperspace. However, their gravitational field does have a counterpart in hyperspace. As gravitational fields are distortions of spacetime, their counterparts in hyperspace distort the fabric of hyperspace itself. This means that any ship that travels through a gravitational field while in hyperspace will suffer some level of distortion. If you are far out from the gravity well in question, you will be fine. However, the closer your get, the more stress it places on the frame of your ship. Eventually, if you are close enough, you will be torn apart by the strain. This structural strain scales with the inverse square of the distance between your ship and the gravity well, and is directly proportional to the gravitational strength of said gravity well. That it is just maths and not super important if you aren't really technically minded. What is important is that this means that the strain increases exponentially as you get closer to the planet. This means that there is a minimum safe threshold for any ship. A ship's ability to travel closer to a gravity well will be a direct result of its structural strength. As such, warships will be able to drop out of a gravity field closer to the centre than a freighter would. Something like an ISD would be able to drop in far closer to a planet than an FSCV would.

Limitations

Even the strongest ship won't be able to drop out of hyperspace directly above the atmosphere. It'll get torn apart by the structural stress, and if anything does drop out it'd be a mangled mess of metal and crew. The usual safe distance for most warships with a planet around the mass of Earth would be ~2 million kilometres. The distance to a planet can, at full burn, probably be crossed in a couple of minutes, but as is that sort of range is far outside of engagement range and so allows orbital defences some time to get ready. Jumping in closer is possible. However, closer jumps begin to place damaging strain on the warship in question. You could theoretically jump an ISD in to ~500 000 km, the limits of engagement ranges, but you'll have to totally scrap it afterwards because the strain would have warped integral structural beams, making it a total constructive loss. If you're getting closer than that you start heavily damaging systems. Too close and you're scrap metal. Remember, though, that this is simply a limit. There is nothing stopping you from dropping in at the Kuiper belt and coming in dark to fool sensors, like Vader planned to do at Hoth.

Freighters, and civilian ships in general, are subject to much larger minimum safe distances, usually around 4x that of a warship. Some ships, like the aforementioned FSCVs, may have to jump in much further away than that. This sort of range necessitates having customs vessels and sensors to pick up inbound freighters, and to protect them against pirates. A particularly daring pirate could well snatch a freighter right outside Coruscant. Most of the time though, they'd take isolated freighters from backwater worlds without major defence forces, like Tatooine. They'd do this by hanging around the planet and pouncing on freighters that show up, then presumably leaving before sector forces can get there. Now, escorts are necessary because particularly large groups may well attack convoys, possibly using interdiction mines to rip them out of hyperspace, or just hitting them when they're far away from the planet's protection. It's not very common, but if the target's valuable you need protection just in case it does happen.

Interdiction

Interdiction is obviously a useful technology. However, its role can be expanded a bit. First some lore. Interdiction works by projecting solely the hyperspace component of the gravity well, at enormous power due to the high generation of SW ships. An interdictor's field of influence literally stops a ship from jumping, because making the jump would tear them apart. As such, they have a field in which it is impossible or at least unsafe to jump, and then a greater area in which they have some limited effect. Interdiction mines should also be present, but they won't be cheap to run long-term, since you need to continually power the field itself, which exhausts fuel very quickly. As such, only relatively rich planets will make much use of them. However, those planets that do use them can saturate their orbits with them, to be turned on in case of imminent attack. Invading forces will then be stopped much further away, and forced to either shoot their way through the minefield to actually jump closer or travel at sublight speeds.

Escaping

Escaping through hyperspace is indeed possible. However, there are a few things that must be considered. Firstly, calculating a route takes time, probably a few minutes depending on the ship making the calculations. The further away you're jumping to, the longer. Due to the cleared nature of hyperlanes, calculating an escape along one of those is also much faster than a "free" jump. When escaping, it is not possible to directly track the escapee. However, one can use algorithms that account for a number of complex variables to calculate their possible destinations, which should be pretty nearby anyway since it's faster, and then send ships there to try find them. This is the reason why "Calculate every possible destination along their last known trajectory" is a doable thing. There is a second consideration, namely battle damage. Taking a hit to a structural beam will likely weaken it, meaning that a jump that would have been safe before would become dangerous. The nav computer won't know that either, it'll just know your original strength rating. Jumping after taking damage risks disintegration on jumping. If you can trap a ship in low orbit and pound on it, you can theoretically stop it from running entirely. However, this is only if it takes integral structural damage. You can't always stop a ship, probably not even usually, which is why the Immobiliser 418 and Dominator are necessary.

Hyperlanes

Hyperlanes are areas of space that have been cleared of obstructions, presumably by major effort. Systems along hyperplanes will probably obstruct part of it, meaning it's easier to stop in at each individual one and slowboat across the system to go through. There are likely massive traffic "lanes" in systems on hyperplanes for ships that are just passing through, necessitating lots of protection and traffic control. Travelling along hyperplanes can be done much faster than through "free" space, since the ship in question will not have to manoeuvre around obstacles. This also makes them much cheaper fuel-wise to travel along, incentivising traders to use them. The larger, and thus safer, a hyperlane is, the faster it can be travelled and the cheaper travel is. Major lanes like the Hydian way are likely very large, possibly light-hours across. Others may be as small as a couple of AU, depending on how frequently-traveled and maintained the lane itself is. The bigger it is, the more expensive it is to maintain. Hyperlanes are excellent avenues to move large forces along, since they offer very quick travel.
The measurement of a ship's speed isn't going to be how fast it travels along hyperlanes, which would entail only marginal difference in time taken, but rather the speeds possible in "free" space. The differentiator of a good hyperdrive is mostly the navigation and manoeuvring system, as well as possibly its energy efficiency for a given speed.

Collisions

Now, the one people probably might want to know with this system is whether a hyperspace ram is possible. The answer is, both for gameplay purposes and lore purposes, no, since you'll pass harmlessly through them. Neither is ramming while accelerating up to or dropping out from hyperspace a truly viable tactic in anything but the most unbelievably precise situations. You will not be able to replicate the Holdo Manoeuvre, so don't try it. Even in the case that you do, any warship at full shielding should be able to take the impact fairly easily, unless you're physically bigger than them. Something like what Holdo pulled would require so many things to coincidentally come together that you'd stand a better chance of doing damage if you get out and use your fists against them. 99% of the time you miss and just enter hyperspace, 1% of the time you hit and transfer a lot of energy into the shields but do nothing of import other than totally wrecking your ship. The chances of doing meaningful damage are so small that I won't even have to bother writing them in. Just stick to turbolasers.


Thank you! I like that! I'll put it in, and I don't see anything wrong with it whatsoever.


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Lotrisia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 48
Founded: Nov 23, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Lotrisia » Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:48 pm

Abbeyverne wrote:
Lotrisia wrote:As Tysklandia has asked me to put forward my proposal for hyperspace as well, here it is

Hyperspace is possibly one of the shakiest parts of Star Wars lore. The specific rules as to when you can and can't jump, and parameters about that, aren't even poorly-defined, they're just outright contradictory in much of Star Wars lore. As such, here's my shot at some cohesive hyperspace rules.

It is theoretically possible to travel to and through anywhere in hyperspace, including directly through a planet or a black hole. This is because objects in realspace have no physical counterpart in hyperspace. However, their gravitational field does have a counterpart in hyperspace. As gravitational fields are distortions of spacetime, their counterparts in hyperspace distort the fabric of hyperspace itself. This means that any ship that travels through a gravitational field while in hyperspace will suffer some level of distortion. If you are far out from the gravity well in question, you will be fine. However, the closer your get, the more stress it places on the frame of your ship. Eventually, if you are close enough, you will be torn apart by the strain. This structural strain scales with the inverse square of the distance between your ship and the gravity well, and is directly proportional to the gravitational strength of said gravity well. That it is just maths and not super important if you aren't really technically minded. What is important is that this means that the strain increases exponentially as you get closer to the planet. This means that there is a minimum safe threshold for any ship. A ship's ability to travel closer to a gravity well will be a direct result of its structural strength. As such, warships will be able to drop out of a gravity field closer to the centre than a freighter would. Something like an ISD would be able to drop in far closer to a planet than an FSCV would.

Limitations

Even the strongest ship won't be able to drop out of hyperspace directly above the atmosphere. It'll get torn apart by the structural stress, and if anything does drop out it'd be a mangled mess of metal and crew. The usual safe distance for most warships with a planet around the mass of Earth would be ~2 million kilometres. The distance to a planet can, at full burn, probably be crossed in a couple of minutes, but as is that sort of range is far outside of engagement range and so allows orbital defences some time to get ready. Jumping in closer is possible. However, closer jumps begin to place damaging strain on the warship in question. You could theoretically jump an ISD in to ~500 000 km, the limits of engagement ranges, but you'll have to totally scrap it afterwards because the strain would have warped integral structural beams, making it a total constructive loss. If you're getting closer than that you start heavily damaging systems. Too close and you're scrap metal. Remember, though, that this is simply a limit. There is nothing stopping you from dropping in at the Kuiper belt and coming in dark to fool sensors, like Vader planned to do at Hoth.

Freighters, and civilian ships in general, are subject to much larger minimum safe distances, usually around 4x that of a warship. Some ships, like the aforementioned FSCVs, may have to jump in much further away than that. This sort of range necessitates having customs vessels and sensors to pick up inbound freighters, and to protect them against pirates. A particularly daring pirate could well snatch a freighter right outside Coruscant. Most of the time though, they'd take isolated freighters from backwater worlds without major defence forces, like Tatooine. They'd do this by hanging around the planet and pouncing on freighters that show up, then presumably leaving before sector forces can get there. Now, escorts are necessary because particularly large groups may well attack convoys, possibly using interdiction mines to rip them out of hyperspace, or just hitting them when they're far away from the planet's protection. It's not very common, but if the target's valuable you need protection just in case it does happen.

Interdiction

Interdiction is obviously a useful technology. However, its role can be expanded a bit. First some lore. Interdiction works by projecting solely the hyperspace component of the gravity well, at enormous power due to the high generation of SW ships. An interdictor's field of influence literally stops a ship from jumping, because making the jump would tear them apart. As such, they have a field in which it is impossible or at least unsafe to jump, and then a greater area in which they have some limited effect. Interdiction mines should also be present, but they won't be cheap to run long-term, since you need to continually power the field itself, which exhausts fuel very quickly. As such, only relatively rich planets will make much use of them. However, those planets that do use them can saturate their orbits with them, to be turned on in case of imminent attack. Invading forces will then be stopped much further away, and forced to either shoot their way through the minefield to actually jump closer or travel at sublight speeds.

Escaping

Escaping through hyperspace is indeed possible. However, there are a few things that must be considered. Firstly, calculating a route takes time, probably a few minutes depending on the ship making the calculations. The further away you're jumping to, the longer. Due to the cleared nature of hyperlanes, calculating an escape along one of those is also much faster than a "free" jump. When escaping, it is not possible to directly track the escapee. However, one can use algorithms that account for a number of complex variables to calculate their possible destinations, which should be pretty nearby anyway since it's faster, and then send ships there to try find them. This is the reason why "Calculate every possible destination along their last known trajectory" is a doable thing. There is a second consideration, namely battle damage. Taking a hit to a structural beam will likely weaken it, meaning that a jump that would have been safe before would become dangerous. The nav computer won't know that either, it'll just know your original strength rating. Jumping after taking damage risks disintegration on jumping. If you can trap a ship in low orbit and pound on it, you can theoretically stop it from running entirely. However, this is only if it takes integral structural damage. You can't always stop a ship, probably not even usually, which is why the Immobiliser 418 and Dominator are necessary.

Hyperlanes

Hyperlanes are areas of space that have been cleared of obstructions, presumably by major effort. Systems along hyperplanes will probably obstruct part of it, meaning it's easier to stop in at each individual one and slowboat across the system to go through. There are likely massive traffic "lanes" in systems on hyperplanes for ships that are just passing through, necessitating lots of protection and traffic control. Travelling along hyperplanes can be done much faster than through "free" space, since the ship in question will not have to manoeuvre around obstacles. This also makes them much cheaper fuel-wise to travel along, incentivising traders to use them. The larger, and thus safer, a hyperlane is, the faster it can be travelled and the cheaper travel is. Major lanes like the Hydian way are likely very large, possibly light-hours across. Others may be as small as a couple of AU, depending on how frequently-traveled and maintained the lane itself is. The bigger it is, the more expensive it is to maintain. Hyperlanes are excellent avenues to move large forces along, since they offer very quick travel.
The measurement of a ship's speed isn't going to be how fast it travels along hyperlanes, which would entail only marginal difference in time taken, but rather the speeds possible in "free" space. The differentiator of a good hyperdrive is mostly the navigation and manoeuvring system, as well as possibly its energy efficiency for a given speed.

Collisions

Now, the one people probably might want to know with this system is whether a hyperspace ram is possible. The answer is, both for gameplay purposes and lore purposes, no, since you'll pass harmlessly through them. Neither is ramming while accelerating up to or dropping out from hyperspace a truly viable tactic in anything but the most unbelievably precise situations. You will not be able to replicate the Holdo Manoeuvre, so don't try it. Even in the case that you do, any warship at full shielding should be able to take the impact fairly easily, unless you're physically bigger than them. Something like what Holdo pulled would require so many things to coincidentally come together that you'd stand a better chance of doing damage if you get out and use your fists against them. 99% of the time you miss and just enter hyperspace, 1% of the time you hit and transfer a lot of energy into the shields but do nothing of import other than totally wrecking your ship. The chances of doing meaningful damage are so small that I won't even have to bother writing them in. Just stick to turbolasers.


Thank you! I like that! I'll put it in, and I don't see anything wrong with it whatsoever.

I should add the consideration that you can't precalculate a route beforehand, since the calculations are complex and include your current position and orientation, which is impossible to predict with precalculation. Precalculating would then just expedite the process of calculation by including the rough route. A ship's orientation should also be roughly in the direction you want to go when calculating, and straight and level, since orientation is a factor in calculation

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