NS Cliches II: Re-Rebooted

[Juansonia]

Cliche: People still using battleships in the modern day...I see it way too much.

Probably because save for a small percentage of people around here, no one actually understands how naval warfare works (including me).

The closest thing to naval warfare they've experienced in their lives must probably be this:

Since I can't load the image, let me guess: It's the Battleship! board game?

[Vyahrapura]

Probably because save for a small percentage of people around here, no one actually understands how naval warfare works (including me).

The closest thing to naval warfare they've experienced in their lives must probably be this:

(Image)

Since I can't load the image, let me guess: It's the Battleship! board game?

You sunk my battleship! are indeed correct, sir.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

What if you have a ship with 200 km range railguns, firing a glorified version of Vulcano?

[Juansonia]

What if you have a ship with 200 km range railguns, firing a glorified version of Vulcano?

Not even a third of the FA-18's air-to-air combat range? It wouldn't be useful as an anti-ship weapon unless a lot of coincidences lined up. Just put anti-ship missiles on a plane FFS.

I may not know much about warfare, but what I do know is that air superiority is the basis of all naval combat in the modern era, with the sole exception of submarines.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

What if you have a ship with 200 km range railguns, firing a glorified version of Vulcano?

Not even a third of the FA-18's air-to-air combat range? It wouldn't be useful as an anti-ship weapon unless a lot of coincidences lined up.

I may not know much about warfare, but what I do know is that air superiority is the basis of all naval combat in the modern era, with the sole exception of submarines.

F/A-18's can be shot down... cruise missiles equally... 48 guided 510 mm shells in 8 minutes though?

[Juansonia]

Not even a third of the FA-18's air-to-air combat range? It wouldn't be useful as an anti-ship weapon unless a lot of coincidences lined up.

I may not know much about warfare, but what I do know is that air superiority is the basis of all naval combat in the modern era, with the sole exception of submarines.

F/A-18's can be shot down... cruise missiles equally... 48 guided 510 mm shells in 8 minutes though?

Only matters if - and when - the 510mm guns are close enough to hit. Assuming that the enemy detects you 500km away from your target, you have to move 300km (over 5 hours for a Nimitz-class) while under fire - and that's assuming that the target doesn't move until shot.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

F/A-18's can be shot down... cruise missiles equally... 48 guided 510 mm shells in 8 minutes though?

Only matters if - and when - the 127mm guns are close enough to hit. Assuming that the enemy detects you 500km away from your target, you have to move 300km (over 5 hours for a Nimitz-class) while under fire - and that's assuming that the target doesn't move until shot.

Airbases and ports on land doesn't move...

Thing is, land targets still can't be satisfactorily suppressed except by heavy calibre fire, especially if your opponent is putting up resistance. And 5"/62 Mark 45 isn't heavy calibre fire.

[Juansonia]

Only matters if - and when - the 127mm guns are close enough to hit. Assuming that the enemy detects you 500km away from your target, you have to move 300km (over 5 hours for a Nimitz-class) while under fire - and that's assuming that the target doesn't move until shot.

Airbases and ports on land doesn't move...

I said "as an anti-ship weapon". Of course slapping artillery onto a ship is a good idea for targeting land.

edit: would an artillery ship be a frigate?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Anyway here's another one of those cliche's...
Users - like me - getting extremely heavily embroiled in detail

[Urmanian]

Battleships aren't a completely awful idea if you're doing classic NS-scale RP (not population capped hard MT obviously).

You will want heavy close fire support for your massive landing operations (think US battleships during the Gulf War, but the Gulf War is 100x more intense). You will probably be shot at by shore defences in the process, and your huge nation can probably afford the odd thousand tons of steel and ceramics for armor. There will also be massive pitched "drive me closer so I can hit them with my sword!" naval battles with hundreds of ships, railguns and $1-million-a-pop overengineered guided shells that let your battleships hit stuff far beyond the conventional range.

All obviously considerations not present irl and building a dozen smaller ships armed with hypersonics would still probably be more cost-effective, but it's not really the same as bringing a stone axe to a musket battle.

There are also a few well-designed massive supercapitals on GE&T which are basically armed platforms for big floating radar arrays. Which is also not a bad way to go about having gigantic ships if you want them, again if your NS nation is ridiculously wealthy and can afford it.

[El Lazaro]

Cliche: People still using battleships in the modern day...I see it way too much.

If it's "battleships firing at each other as a main method of fighting", it's cringe.
if it's "using a battleship's guns as artillery support for the landing force", it's based.

I'm guessing that the former is far more common on NS.

Yeah, no. “My (technically advanced, militarily powerful) nation routinely uses thousands of T-34s for international conflicts in a significant capacity” cannot be fixed by tacking “as artillery support” on the end.

But battleships do have the Rule of Cool on their side. Naval warfare used to be awesome, and this fact alone makes anachronistic stuff like battleships duking it out on the high seas somewhat less awful.

[Foggycap]

I wonder if its possible to make a FanT nation that looks like an MT one at a glance. Heck, thats a new cliche.

FanT nations focusing so much on fantasy that its a little too obvious. No offense intended.

[Greater Qwerty]

Cliche: People still using battleships in the modern day...I see it way too much.

If it's "battleships firing at each other as a main method of fighting", it's cringe.
if it's "using a battleship's guns as artillery support for the landing force", it's based.

I'm guessing that the former is far more common on NS.

People playing the game Battleship on a battleship: ultimate based

[Picairn]

F/A-18's can be shot down... cruise missiles equally... 48 guided 510 mm shells in 8 minutes though?

You have to get your battleships within range of the guns to fire... and in the meantime the enemy could have overwhelmed your ships' defence with anti-ship missiles several times over.

Battleships aren't a completely awful idea if you're doing classic NS-scale RP (not population capped hard MT obviously).

You will want heavy close fire support for your massive landing operations (think US battleships during the Gulf War, but the Gulf War is 100x more intense). You will probably be shot at by shore defences in the process, and your huge nation can probably afford the odd thousand tons of steel and ceramics for armor. There will also be massive pitched "drive me closer so I can hit them with my sword!" naval battles with hundreds of ships, railguns and $1-million-a-pop overengineered guided shells that let your battleships hit stuff far beyond the conventional range.

All obviously considerations not present irl and building a dozen smaller ships armed with hypersonics would still probably be more cost-effective, but it's not really the same as bringing a stone axe to a musket battle.

There are also a few well-designed massive supercapitals on GE&T which are basically armed platforms for big floating radar arrays. Which is also not a bad way to go about having gigantic ships if you want them, again if your NS nation is ridiculously wealthy and can afford it.

IRL the battleships probably would have been sunk by anti-ship missiles and fighters before they can even get close to test these overengineered wunderwaffes, but the thunder of the cannons is indeed a sight to witness. Having giant battles with hundreds of these sci-fi ships is just lol though, that is just powerwanking territory.

[UIS Leviathan]

Cliche: People still using battleships in the modern day...I see it way too much.

Probably because save for a small percentage of people around here, no one actually understands how naval warfare works (including me).

The closest thing to naval warfare they've experienced in their lives must probably be this:

They return

He has risen

ummm actually I
*calculates your position using a collection of UUV and helicopter drones*
*fires a single cruise missile*
*fires over the horizon*
*hits your ridiculous battleship with enough precision to knock out its engines*
*simply goes around the floating hunk of worthless metal*
uuuuh so yeah I guess you could say I’m kind of a big deal

Also if I see any of this dumbass “uh achtually my battleship is super powerful and could destroy your entire fleet” dogshit I will flip a tit

[UIS Leviathan]

What if you have a ship with 200 km range railguns, firing a glorified version of Vulcano?

Heavy naval artillery is basically only useful for ground targets and the very rare “close” encounter. Considering a standard Tomahawk has the range of 1,000 miles by the time one of the one the big fucking targets gets within 200 miles, you will have been not only
1) Spotted by even the most basic modern radar on the edge of the horizon, if not by helicopters, submarines (good luck making your behemoth battleship quiet lol), aircraft, drones, or even satellites
2) Sunk by precision guided sea-skimming anti-ship missiles
3) Completely disabled or rendered combat ineffective by precision guided sea-skimming anti-ship missiles
4) Sunk by ground or naval based ballistic missiles (China is a pretty good example of these)
5) broken down and now have to wait 5 years to replace parts because your industrial base is not used to making fucking battleship parts

Also, no, armor will not save your BB. Modern munitions are precise, they can very easily strike unarmored parts or simply cause a big enough explosion to bypass armor and cause internal damage (or just strip the BB of all its’ sensors - making it literally useless). Additionally, modern cruise missiles would not have a problem penetrating armor, perhaps not BB belt armor, but anything lighter is certainly debatably penetrable.

Not to mention the fact that aircraft and submarines exist - the bane of any battleship of any era. Battleship-on-Battleship engagements were few and rare IRL, aircraft, submarines, and lighter naval ships have killed more BBS than basically anything else.

Not even a third of the FA-18's air-to-air combat range? It wouldn't be useful as an anti-ship weapon unless a lot of coincidences lined up.

I may not know much about warfare, but what I do know is that air superiority is the basis of all naval combat in the modern era, with the sole exception of submarines.

F/A-18's can be shot down... cruise missiles equally... 48 guided 510 mm shells in 8 minutes though?

Debatably can be shot down as well tbh, but saying “oh you can just shoot those down” is sort of like having a gun to your face and just betting you can stab them first. Your modern aircraft is not simply fodder for anti-air missiles, you need a lot of protection and something as big, slow, and noticeable as a BB is 100% going to be hit. It is basically guaranteed.
Additionally, I don’t know about you, but you ever tried to stop a wave of cruise missiles before? That shit is fucking hard, no matter how many CIWS you slap on your hull. Even modern ships struggle heavily to protect themselves effectively - a lot has to be in your favor to intercept every missile and aircraft.

48 guided shells / per 8 minutes with a range of 200 miles is basically nothing, ships move, and those ships are probably faster and more maneuverable than a battleship, so you would struggle to even get in range in the first place.

Basically everything needs to be in your favor to effectively engage naval ships with even railguns/coilguns/normal naval guns. Unless you’re shooting at like pirates or a non-peer state.

F/A-18's can be shot down... cruise missiles equally... 48 guided 510 mm shells in 8 minutes though?

Only matters if - and when - the 510mm guns are close enough to hit. Assuming that the enemy detects you 500km away from your target, you have to move 300km (over 5 hours for a Nimitz-class) while under fire - and that's assuming that the target doesn't move until shot.

Assuming patrols/aircraft don’t detect you out even further than that, honestly. Battleships would be big, noisy, slow, and hot.

Only matters if - and when - the 127mm guns are close enough to hit. Assuming that the enemy detects you 500km away from your target, you have to move 300km (over 5 hours for a Nimitz-class) while under fire - and that's assuming that the target doesn't move until shot.

Airbases and ports on land doesn't move...

Thing is, land targets still can't be satisfactorily suppressed except by heavy calibre fire, especially if your opponent is putting up resistance. And 5"/62 Mark 45 isn't heavy calibre fire.

That’s exactly the purpose of these weapons - ground support. Nothing else. Theoretically you can slap a heavy gun or coil/railgun on a modern destroyer so there’s literally no reason to sink any money in making a modern battleship or god forbid trying to fix up an old one. The zumwalts are basically as big as you’d want to get, and even then they’re a bit ridiculous.

Airbases and ports on land doesn't move...

edit: would an artillery ship be a frigate?

No not really, but you can have a frigate that is an “artillery ship”. “artillery ship” don’t exist, it would just be whatever the ship is but it has heavy artillery.

Battleships aren't a completely awful idea if you're doing classic NS-scale RP (not population capped hard MT obviously).

You will want heavy close fire support for your massive landing operations (think US battleships during the Gulf War, but the Gulf War is 100x more intense). You will probably be shot at by shore defences in the process, and your huge nation can probably afford the odd thousand tons of steel and ceramics for armor. There will also be massive pitched "drive me closer so I can hit them with my sword!" naval battles with hundreds of ships, railguns and $1-million-a-pop overengineered guided shells that let your battleships hit stuff far beyond the conventional range.

All obviously considerations not present irl and building a dozen smaller ships armed with hypersonics would still probably be more cost-effective, but it's not really the same as bringing a stone axe to a musket battle.

There are also a few well-designed massive supercapitals on GE&T which are basically armed platforms for big floating radar arrays. Which is also not a bad way to go about having gigantic ships if you want them, again if your NS nation is ridiculously wealthy and can afford it.

This is pretty eh advice on a few levels, notably the idea of “big landing invasions covered by big guns”. The US Marines themselves have gone on record basically denying the idea of a “d-day” style landing operation - it’s simply far too costly and would result in significant losses. This is the age of the missile and mobile fighting forces, assaulting a beach is a sure-fire way to loose a lot of very expensive equipment and men. Letting your big gun ships and aircraft pave the way, and then once you’re not going to be shot immediately - you move in.

I would also take 2-4 ships over a single one basically any day for the amount of time and resources a battleship would take. You would also have to give up a carrier spot to construct one of these ridiculous things, especially if you armor it. Never armor your modern ships beyond critical spots (usually protected against expositions or shrapnel not actual protection). The sheer amount of money, time, and industry it would cost to make a single BB makes them extremely redundant. Also, you are almost certainly loosing this thing, so say goodbye to the billions of capital and thousands of men working the damned thing.

I haven’t seen a single good supercaptial on GE&T for the life of me I swear they are all terrible

Obviously if your goal for an RP is to simply slam as much tonnage and money at each other then yeah fuck it do whatever lol

If it's "battleships firing at each other as a main method of fighting", it's cringe.
if it's "using a battleship's guns as artillery support for the landing force", it's based.

I'm guessing that the former is far more common on NS.

Yeah, no. “My (technically advanced, militarily powerful) nation routinely uses thousands of T-34s for international conflicts in a significant capacity” cannot be fixed by tacking “as artillery support” on the end.

But battleships do have the Rule of Cool on their side. Naval warfare used to be awesome, and this fact alone makes anachronistic stuff like battleships duking it out on the high seas somewhat less awful.

It’s all fun and games until you realize how genuinely terrifying, hectic, and awful it would be to be in a BB on BB battle. Some of the accounts of these things going up is pretty fucking horrifying tbh

but yeah big gun do go boom

All this being said - people can make whatever they want for their nations. But your actions will have consequences once I find your battleships

rant over

[A m e n r i a]

I wonder if its possible to make a FanT nation that looks like an MT one at a glance. Heck, thats a new cliche.

FanT nations focusing so much on fantasy that its a little too obvious. No offense intended.

You could, but why would you?

[Vyahrapura]

ummm actually I
*calculates your position using a collection of UUV and helicopter drones*
*fires a single cruise missile*
*fires over the horizon*
*hits your ridiculous battleship with enough precision to knock out its engines*
*simply goes around the floating hunk of worthless metal*
uuuuh so yeah I guess you could say I’m kind of a big deal

Also if I see any of this dumbass “uh achtually my battleship is super powerful and could destroy your entire fleet” dogshit I will flip a tit

b-b-b-b-b-b-b-but akschually my battleship is made of very strong and impenetrable unobtanium and can go very fast and dodge your missile and can shoot big gun and destroy your entire fleet and-and-and-and-and we can bombard your capital city with it and then i kill all your leadership and then i win the war

btw my ships can do this cuz this is all in my canon factbooks, so im not godmodding and saying this is godmodding is godmodding in itself

[UIS Leviathan]

ummm actually I
*calculates your position using a collection of UUV and helicopter drones*
*fires a single cruise missile*
*fires over the horizon*
*hits your ridiculous battleship with enough precision to knock out its engines*
*simply goes around the floating hunk of worthless metal*
uuuuh so yeah I guess you could say I’m kind of a big deal

Also if I see any of this dumbass “uh achtually my battleship is super powerful and could destroy your entire fleet” dogshit I will flip a tit

b-b-b-b-b-b-b-but akschually my battleship is made of very strong and impenetrable unobtanium and can go very fast and dodge your missile and can shoot big gun and destroy your entire fleet and-and-and-and-and we can bombard your capital city with it and then i kill all your leadership and then i win the war

btw my ships can do this cuz this is all in my canon factbooks, so im not godmodding and saying this is godmodding is godmodding in itself

you are talking to the man who shot down like 50 ICBMs the moment they left their silos from halfway across the world do you have any fucking clue who I am??????!!!??!?!???
I AM THE GODMODDER THEY WARNED YOU ABOUT
MY MISSILES ARE TIPPED IN RED HOT AMERICAN BLOOD
MY CIWS USES THE BLOOD OF CHRIST TO POWER IT
MY GUNS ARE MADE OF MELTED DOWN SUPER UNOBTANIUM PRESSED INTO SHAPE BY MAX BERRY HIMSELF
MY MEN ARE MADE OF METAPHYSICAL MATTER
MY HULLS ARE HYDROPHOBIC BECAUSE THE WATER IS TOO TERRIFIED TO TOUCH THEM
MY AI ARE SO GOOD THEY COURTED YOUR MOTHER BY PRETENDING TO BE YOU
EVERYTHING IN MY NATION IS CONSIDERED A DEADLY REALITY-ENDING BOMB
I FUCKING EAT RADIATION FOR BREAKFAST LUNCH AND DINNER AND SNACK ON THE REMAINS OF DEAD GODS BECAUSE THEY HAVE A UNIQUE UMAMI FLAVOR
I READ YOUR FATHER A BEDTIME STORY, TUCKED HIM IN AND KISSED HIM GOODNIGHT AND SAFE DREAMS
I ACTIVELY RUIN EVERY RP I AM IN
I KISS MEN

I AM NOT A GODMODDER - I AM JUST GOD

[Vyahrapura]

I KISS MEN

The damn GIF isn't working

But all of that doesnt matter anymore, cus im hereby DECANNONISZING ur nation and VOIDING all ur actions!

Youre a bad rper and a toxic person who is just jealous of my power. I've had enough and am banning you from my super awesome and fun rp thread too. Dont post here again or ill call the mods to enforce my totally reasonable rules which are very simple to understand: do not dare question me or go against me. Bye lol, and have fun coping and seething on your own!!1!

[Senscaria]

I KISS MEN

The damn GIF isn't working

But all of that doesnt matter anymore, cus im hereby DECANNONISZING ur nation and VOIDING all ur actions!

Youre a bad rper and a toxic person who is just jealous of my power. I've had enough and am banning you from my super awesome and fun rp thread too. Dont post here again or ill call the mods to enforce my totally reasonable rules which are very simple to understand: do not dare question me or go against me. Bye lol, and have fun coping and seething on your own!!1!

I kind of know a guy like that.
I'm in a discord server with them and they were like "lol they're jealous" even though me and like 3-4 other nations were like "DUDE NOT EVEN THE GODDAMN IMPERIUM OF MAN CAN HANDLE THAT IT IS A LITERAL LOGISTICS NIGHTMARE YOU HAVE 31829038912390123128031289038903120938901283902389123901283012839012 SOLDIERS AND OTHER STUFF HOW ARE YOU GETTING THIS."
Ok I'm going to be really honest. When it comes to military stuff, even though I suck terribly at writing it, I don't know about some people but I feel as if there has to be a trade-off. You can have a large military I don't really care that much but your citizens are probably waiting in breadlines or eating each other. Also, most of those planets are probably war-torn and hellholes to live in due to well, war. Yeah, there might be a few planets with natural beauty, but there's always going to be a hundred more planets where your citizens are oppressed and whatnot. There's ALSO bound to be some problems with well, having administrative bottlenecks to just some planets either wanting to be left alone or also rebelling. You can't really have a cake and eat it too if you're claiming that everything's fine and dandy while maintaining a military of that size. Militaries and war cost a lot.

[Gaybeans]

Well, I learned stuff about the navy so thanks everyone.

Meanwhile I'm knee deep in poetic metre trying to create a new type of poetry my dumb little country makes cause Im a different type of nerd

Is it a cliche to hyperfixate on a random bit of lore that most people probably wouldn't get or care about?

[Free Papua Republic]

Is it a cliche to hyperfixate on a random bit of lore that most people probably wouldn't get or care about?

hooo boy

[Juansonia]

b-b-b-b-b-b-b-but akschually my battleship is made of very strong and impenetrable unobtanium and can go very fast and dodge your missile and can shoot big gun and destroy your entire fleet and-and-and-and-and we can bombard your capital city with it and then i kill all your leadership and then i win the war

btw my ships can do this cuz this is all in my canon factbooks, so im not godmodding and saying this is godmodding is godmodding in itself

you are talking to the man who shot down like 50 ICBMs the moment they left their silos from halfway across the world do you have any fucking clue who I am??????!!!??!?!???
I AM THE GODMODDER THEY WARNED YOU ABOUT
MY MISSILES ARE TIPPED IN RED HOT AMERICAN BLOOD
MY CIWS USES THE BLOOD OF CHRIST TO POWER IT
MY GUNS ARE MADE OF MELTED DOWN SUPER UNOBTANIUM PRESSED INTO SHAPE BY MAX BERRY HIMSELF
MY MEN ARE MADE OF METAPHYSICAL MATTER
MY HULLS ARE HYDROPHOBIC BECAUSE THE WATER IS TOO TERRIFIED TO TOUCH THEM
MY AI ARE SO GOOD THEY COURTED YOUR MOTHER BY PRETENDING TO BE YOU
EVERYTHING IN MY NATION IS CONSIDERED A DEADLY REALITY-ENDING BOMB
I FUCKING EAT RADIATION FOR BREAKFAST LUNCH AND DINNER AND SNACK ON THE REMAINS OF DEAD GODS BECAUSE THEY HAVE A UNIQUE UMAMI FLAVOR
I READ YOUR FATHER A BEDTIME STORY, TUCKED HIM IN AND KISSED HIM GOODNIGHT AND SAFE DREAMS
I ACTIVELY RUIN EVERY RP I AM IN
I KISS MEN

I AM NOT A GODMODDER - I AM JUST GOD

I am not getting godmoded, Skyler. I am the godmoder. A user gets his entire nation wiped out in one post and you think that of me? No. I am the one who posts!

[UIS Leviathan]

I KISS MEN

The damn GIF isn't working

But all of that doesnt matter anymore, cus im hereby DECANNONISZING ur nation and VOIDING all ur actions!

Youre a bad rper and a toxic person who is just jealous of my power. I've had enough and am banning you from my super awesome and fun rp thread too. Dont post here again or ill call the mods to enforce my totally reasonable rules which are very simple to understand: do not dare question me or go against me. Bye lol, and have fun coping and seething on your own!!1!

I am immune to the mods, they fear me

Ummmm actually sweetie this is my thread now and you’re the one who is banned

Well, I learned stuff about the navy so thanks everyone.

you are welcome xoxoxo