Condemn The Greater German Reich (again)

[Cuba Socialista]

So if we had a Confederate RP region, that endorsed RP slavery to the point where it attracted actual racists, ok, what if these nations were to start using the 'n' word to start racial slurs this would be ok too? An RMB full of 'n' words

Perhaps we can add more in to the mix and send the link out to jihadists, get some of their regions and crashing of regions. And then when you try to raid them or condemn, you'll be defending them saying we're basing it on ideology. I get it, it stinks though, if its supposed to be a real life political body we're running, we should be allowed to condemn them for creating a hostile atmosphere for others with that kind of language.

[St George of England]

So if we had a Confederate RP region, that endorsed RP slavery to the point where it attracted actual racists, ok, what if these nations were to start using the 'n' word to start racial slurs this would be ok too? An RMB full of 'n' words

IIRC, the word 'nigger' (ohnoez, i said it ) is blocked by the swear word blocker for RMBs.

Perhaps we can add more in to the mix and send the link out to jihadists, get some of their regions and crashing of regions. And then when you try to raid them or condemn, you'll be defending them saying we're basing it on ideology. I get it, it stinks though, if its supposed to be a real life political body we're running, we should be allowed to condemn them for creating a hostile atmosphere for others with that kind of language.

There's a big difference, a really big difference, between raiding and condemning.

[The Freeturf]

My region suffered an attempted invasion by GGR

Hence it has become apparent that the only way to deal with these terrorists is to unite, on bothe sides of the aisle be you liberal or conservative, to destroy the enemies of freedom.

I will certainly support this motion. It is great to see both hard line leftists and Conservatives like me agreeing and believe me it is a rarity.

However we all love freedom. GGR hates it they must be condemned and everything in our power must be done to end their tyranny

[St George of England]

My region suffered an attempted invasion by GGR

Hence it has become apparent that the only way to deal with these terrorists is to unite, on bothe sides of the aisle be you liberal or conservative, to destroy the enemies of freedom.

I will certainly support this motion. It is great to see both hard line leftists and Conservatives like me agreeing and believe me it is a rarity.

However we all love freedom. GGR hates it they must be condemned and everything in our power must be done to end their tyranny

Evidence please.

[Sedgistan]

The rule on ideology is that your proposal cannot:

(e) Contain reference to ideologies without explaining how they apply to NationStates in terms of actions, policies or attributes of nations/regions.

You therefore can C&C on the basis of ideology, so long as it's demonstrated how that ideology applies to NationStates, through actions policies or attributes of nations/regions.

[The Freeturf]

RedIsrael came from the Reich and came to our region after the password was given in the belief it was decent nation.

However it then sent a telegram to a nation in the region informing him that the region would soon fall to the GGR.

Thankfully my VD was online at the time and was able to stop the invasion while I banned RedIsrael when I came online.

When a nation asks for evidence in such a fashion it becomes clear that they can't deny it happened so are looking for me to hesitate and make it look like I am lying.

I am not, i have told you the story, it is about decency.

Your region has none and must be destroyed

[The Freeturf]

we need to get a proposal up asap

[St George of England]

RedIsrael came from the Reich and came to our region after the password was given in the belief it was decent nation.

However it then sent a telegram to a nation in the region informing him that the region would soon fall to the GGR.

Thankfully my VD was online at the time and was able to stop the invasion while I banned RedIsrael when I came online.

When a nation asks for evidence in such a fashion it becomes clear that they can't deny it happened so are looking for me to hesitate and make it look like I am lying.

I am not, i have told you the story, it is about decency.

Your region has none and must be destroyed

MY region? I was the one who asked you for evidence, mate, and I have nothing to do with GGR.

[The Freeturf]

I have submitted a proposal of condemnation on GGR everyone endorse it

[Sedgistan]

I have submitted a proposal of condemnation on GGR everyone endorse it

If you want to draft your own proposal to condemn The Greater German Reich, you should start a separate thread to discuss it in. As it is, the proposal you submitted contains personal pronouns, and thus violates Rule 4.

[The Freeturf]

RedIsrael came from the Reich and came to our region after the password was given in the belief it was decent nation.

However it then sent a telegram to a nation in the region informing him that the region would soon fall to the GGR.

Thankfully my VD was online at the time and was able to stop the invasion while I banned RedIsrael when I came online.

When a nation asks for evidence in such a fashion it becomes clear that they can't deny it happened so are looking for me to hesitate and make it look like I am lying.

I am not, i have told you the story, it is about decency.


Your region has none and must be destroyed

MY region? I was the one who asked you for evidence, mate, and I have nothing to do with GGR.[/quote

Sorry

[Vraksia (Ancient)]

Exactly, you cannot condem a region for its ideology, if it was so then, no offence, but communist regions would all be condemed if you look back at history, stalin, pol pot, mao
Even Israel in recent years

[Sedgistan]

The Freeturf - I've just removed 3 posts of yours in separate 'Condemn The Greater German Reich' threads, which were advertising your proposal. In case it wasn't crystal clear beforehand - start your own thread to discuss your proposal in. Do not continue to use threads started by other authors.

[Sedgistan]

Exactly, you cannot condem a region for its ideology, if it was so then, no offence, but communist regions would all be condemed if you look back at history, stalin, pol pot, mao
Even Israel in recent years

See here for an explanation of the rules on ideology. I think you're confusing ideology with RL references - they've been illegal since the SC's inception.

[The Freeturf]

apologies mod. I did not no which one to use and due to the volume of threads related to this did not wish to create another

[Iander]

FURTHER RECOGNIZING that The Greater German Reich forces it's nations to participate in raids, and ejects and bans those who do not do so.

Truth be told, I never participated in any raids at all, yet I am not just a member, but a minister. I never saw anyone being neither ejected nor banned for not participating in these so called 'raids', which are truly just taking over long-dead regions without firing a single shot. No one gets hurt, and all nations a free to leave occupied regions.

[The Freeturf]

FURTHER RECOGNIZING that The Greater German Reich forces it's nations to participate in raids, and ejects and bans those who do not do so.

Truth be told, I never participated in any raids at all, yet I am not just a member, but a minister. I never saw anyone being neither ejected nor banned for not participating in these so called 'raids', which are truly just taking over long-dead regions without firing a single shot. No one gets hurt, and all nations a free to leave occupied regions.

nations should not have to leave the occupied regions they love to call home! CONDEMN THE REGION! APPROVE THE PROPOSAL CURRENTLY ON THE FLOOR OF THE SECURITY COUNCIL

[Volkhan]

This is starting to sound emotionally charged

CONDEMN THE REGION! APPROVE THE PROPOSAL CURRENTLY ON THE FLOOR OF THE SECURITY COUNCIL

Where is your proof?

[Scarsaw]

The Federation recommends that the Ambassador from the Freeturf calms down, has some Scarsaw Soda, and return tomorrow so that we may continue this conversation without fear of creating ill will between nations.

It has been pointed out that the proposition has faulty information and makes claims without evidence. That does not mean that GGR is innocent of these claims; however, to act with such an erroneous proposal would undermined the beliefs that many of our nations are founded upon...mainly the idea of innocence until proven guilty. The Federation is reserving judgment and serious thought of GGR's actions until a better written accusation is given.

[DoshGillio]

We need to stop this idea of "Nanny" World Organisation. We can't go around punishing nations for their political ideologies, and if you do not want your Region raiding, Password it.

[The Freeturf]

The Federation recommends that the Ambassador from the Freeturf calms down, has some Scarsaw Soda, and return tomorrow so that we may continue this conversation without fear of creating ill will between nations.

It has been pointed out that the proposition has faulty information and makes claims without evidence. That does not mean that GGR is innocent of these claims; however, to act with such an erroneous proposal would undermined the beliefs that many of our nations are founded upon...mainly the idea of innocence until proven guilty. The Federation is reserving judgment and serious thought of GGR's actions until a better written accusation is given.

My Learned Friends,

I bear no ill will against any of you.

Firstly I don't believe I need to show any further evidence that the Reich did act tyrannically while controlling Republicans, a helpless region without a founder, Britvaria, Hut and House and myself were all ejected. In my case for engaging in the democratic process i.e. getting endorsements to become the Delegate. Every other native bar one was subsequently ejected.

My region was attacked as a result of a telegram I sent to GGR's Delegate stating I was delighted the Republicans were iberated and gloating that soon his region would be nothing of importance as no other region would be willing to work with them. The password was accidently given to RedIsrael, a nation we believed to be friendly, who subsequently sent a telegram to Puerto Hispania (who can testify to this) which told him of the planned occupation of the region and furrther to this, dare I say, was of a threatening nature (to the best of my memory it told Hispania he should co-operate as soon he would have no choice, i will seek clarification on the threat (if there was one) from hispania). Only for my VD who managed to contact people in the Reich and halt the invasion I may soon have been in the rejected realms.

Also I do believe it is more than likely there will be more invasions. I have heard of several possibilites which I cannot share hear but I dare say that there is plenty of information in circulation about this.

Finally you need only to read the civil centre on most given days to see that they toast the deeds of the holocaust to a sickening degree (I know this was not in the motion)

[Scarsaw]

My Learned Friends,

I bear no ill will against any of you.

Firstly I don't believe I need to show any further evidence that the Reich did act tyrannically while controlling Republicans, a helpless region without a founder, Britvaria, Hut and House and myself were all ejected. In my case for engaging in the democratic process i.e. getting endorsements to become the Delegate. Every other native bar one was subsequently ejected.

My region was attacked as a result of a telegram I sent to GGR's Delegate stating I was delighted the Republicans were iberated and gloating that soon his region would be nothing of importance as no other region would be willing to work with them. The password was accidently given to RedIsrael, a nation we believed to be friendly, who subsequently sent a telegram to Puerto Hispania (who can testify to this) which told him of the planned occupation of the region and furrther to this, dare I say, was of a threatening nature (to the best of my memory it told Hispania he should co-operate as soon he would have no choice, i will seek clarification on the threat (if there was one) from hispania). Only for my VD who managed to contact people in the Reich and halt the invasion I may soon have been in the rejected realms.

Also I do believe it is more than likely there will be more invasions. I have heard of several possibilites which I cannot share hear but I dare say that there is plenty of information in circulation about this.

Finally you need only to read the civil centre on most given days to see that they toast the deeds of the holocaust to a sickening degree (I know this was not in the motion)

To reinforce, this possible crime and threat to world stability is not written in the current proposal; not only is it excluded but information that is wrong, such as forcing nations to participate in raids, is placed. That is the key reason why the Federation can not support it. If there was a proposal better written with this kind of examples and proof added, a serious thought would be given although the Federation was once a GGR member during our exile from NE...so we are still biased to the region and the founder.

In addition, if we understand you correctly, you were attacked after making taunts and threats towards GGR. If that is the case, the Federation has no sympathy for you and, in fact, believe your region should be frowned upon for provoking another. As a Scarsawian proverb goes, a man who sticks his tongue out is bound to loose it. You stuck your tongue out at GGR and lost it...there is no mystery why and instead of blaming it on the actions of GGR, see it as a repercussion for your foolish and immature action.

Although the Federation finds it in ill-taste to praise great suffering and death, we cannot condemn them based solely on that. First, we cannot prove that such a thing as the Holocaust occurred as the events found within the Tera' paq* are always up to interpretation and question. Second, although praising such an event is distasteful, one should not be punished for acting is a distasteful way. Toasting to the Holocaust does not break laws in the Federation, nor do we think it breaks international laws; there for, it is inappropriate but not condemnable.

Therefore, even with your examples and ignoring the inaccuracies, the Federation can not approve of this proposal.

((OOC: Tera' paq is a book containing RL history. It is seen similar to the Bible where the truth of the stories depends on the person's individual belief. Generally though, it is seen as a collection of stories that are fictional examples of what can happen more than history))

[Cuba Socialista]

The Greater German Reich is not comparable to Socialist, Anarchist, Republican, Conservative, Moderate regions in that none of these other regions explicitly call for the death of Jews or Communists on their RMBs.

The Greater German Reich's allusion to history, would be a criminal act in certain parts of the world, and offends a great deal of people who lost family in the second World War.

The Greater German Reich's idealized state of Nazi Germany, which Socialist Laos said could be just as comparable to criticism based on Marxist experiments, thats an amazing leap of cynicism [OOC], and given that there has never been a Marxist region that pushes ethnic and racial stereotypes, picks on small regions of 20 or 15 when it has 100 plus nations, and taunts their way into confrontations with them. Don't believe me, read the region Soviet Union's RMB, it has a threat made by a GGR nation, who claims to be declaring war and for them to surrender and negotiate with him or they will be removed. Yeah, I get it, theres a double standard at work here.

The Greater German Reich doesn't even follow something that NAZI EUROPE does to allay its troubles and criticism, which is to ask that open racism and neo nazism not be discussed. You will still get convos there, but not to the level of uproarious and hellish cries seen in GGR.

Events in the last few days in the region even seem to show that there is a general dissension, the more extreme elements are driving out the less ignorant ones, and people are unhappy. A condemnation might aid in the democratic process and perhaps force them to remove their administration, lest feel more international pressure and condemnation, and this time, a condemnation unwilling to hear to the demands and positions of militarist racists.

You are condemning the world and the regions directly affected by GGR's continued bellicose existence in the past, acknowledgments which even this stubborn body has managed to make.

You seem to be more willing to condemn raiding in general than to take a stand on ethical issues, which as I might add should be a possibility of this RolePlaying body. It is not something altogether unseen in real life, and you're offering no alternative for anyone who feels displeases or disgusted than to quite the game. Congratulations, you guys are fostering a great user base.

[The Freeturf]

My Learned Friends,

I bear no ill will against any of you.

Firstly I don't believe I need to show any further evidence that the Reich did act tyrannically while controlling Republicans, a helpless region without a founder, Britvaria, Hut and House and myself were all ejected. In my case for engaging in the democratic process i.e. getting endorsements to become the Delegate. Every other native bar one was subsequently ejected.

My region was attacked as a result of a telegram I sent to GGR's Delegate stating I was delighted the Republicans were iberated and gloating that soon his region would be nothing of importance as no other region would be willing to work with them. The password was accidently given to RedIsrael, a nation we believed to be friendly, who subsequently sent a telegram to Puerto Hispania (who can testify to this) which told him of the planned occupation of the region and furrther to this, dare I say, was of a threatening nature (to the best of my memory it told Hispania he should co-operate as soon he would have no choice, i will seek clarification on the threat (if there was one) from hispania). Only for my VD who managed to contact people in the Reich and halt the invasion I may soon have been in the rejected realms.

Also I do believe it is more than likely there will be more invasions. I have heard of several possibilites which I cannot share hear but I dare say that there is plenty of information in circulation about this.

Finally you need only to read the civil centre on most given days to see that they toast the deeds of the holocaust to a sickening degree (I know this was not in the motion)

To reinforce, this possible crime and threat to world stability is not written in the current proposal; not only is it excluded but information that is wrong, such as forcing nations to participate in raids, is placed. That is the key reason why the Federation can not support it. If there was a proposal better written with this kind of examples and proof added, a serious thought would be given although the Federation was once a GGR member during our exile from NE...so we are still biased to the region and the founder.

In addition, if we understand you correctly, you were attacked after making taunts and threats towards GGR. If that is the case, the Federation has no sympathy for you and, in fact, believe your region should be frowned upon for provoking another. As a Scarsawian proverb goes, a man who sticks his tongue out is bound to loose it. You stuck your tongue out at GGR and lost it...there is no mystery why and instead of blaming it on the actions of GGR, see it as a repercussion for your foolish and immature action.

Although the Federation finds it in ill-taste to praise great suffering and death, we cannot condemn them based solely on that. First, we cannot prove that such a thing as the Holocaust occurred as the events found within the Tera' paq* are always up to interpretation and question. Second, although praising such an event is distasteful, one should not be punished for acting is a distasteful way. Toasting to the Holocaust does not break laws in the Federation, nor do we think it breaks international laws; there for, it is inappropriate but not condemnable.

Therefore, even with your examples and ignoring the inaccuracies, the Federation can not approve of this proposal.

((OOC: Tera' paq is a book containing RL history. It is seen similar to the Bible where the truth of the stories depends on the person's individual belief. Generally though, it is seen as a collection of stories that are fictional examples of what can happen more than history))

My learned friend,

My motion does not refer to nations being forced to carry out raids that motion is not on the floor rather I have submitted another which can be viewed in the SC.

My actions were not inappropriate as Delegate of a region which most nations in it were banned from Republicans during the occupation I was simply expressing a view which I had every right to express and surely a Delegate should be able to contact another after they commit war crimes without fear of being attacked

[Volkhan]

I ask again, before more slanderous utterances occur, where is the evidence that the Greater German Reich should be condemed?