Please retire the SC!

[Valipac]

The only thing that disappoints me about the SC is that if your proposal doesn't involve gameplay (or Nazis), it is unlikely to get much attention and is even less likely to reach quorum. My "Condemn Doomingsland" proposal was a test fire, to see if one of the most recognizably evil nations from the roleplay forums could be condemned. I believe I had all of two people not involved in II reply to my thread, and the people from II that posted were not delegates capable of endorsing that proposal. Had it even received consideration, I would have probably made a "Condemn Automagfreek" proposal as well, but after the complete failure of the Doomingsland proposal, I doubt I will take the effort to scavenge old threads for all the unspeakable deeds he has committed. In this way I think the SC discourages people not involved in gameplay from writing C&C's, which is really unfortunate, because there are plenty of people out there who deserve to be condemned, but those resolutions will never see the light of day.

[Ballotonia]

Admittedly, I didn't take note of the thread about the proposal, since I do not recognize the name at all.

In the list of proposals, I skipped reading it due to typical General Assembly layout of the proposal and it being quite wordy.

Upon perusal now, I wouldn't have supported the condemnation anyway. A lot is about behavior way in the past, which doesn't seem to harm other nations anyway. If we hand out condemnations just for human rights abuses, we'd be handing those badges out like candy. One could also decide to not RP with that nation, which also solves the problem.

Ballotonia

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

If we hand out condemnations just for human rights abuses, we'd be handing those badges out like candy. One could also decide to not RP with that nation, which also solves the problem.

I could say the same thing about condemning people for invading a region or having an ugly WFE. I imagine if we decided to condemn every small-minded idiot in this game who thinks the WA exists to serve their purposes only and all other players can go fuck themselves, we'd be here all summer.

I have to voice my agreement with Valipac here. "These are our toys, you can't play with them" is not a very constructive way to implement a new game feature.

[Mad Sheep Railgun]

"These are our toys, you can't play with them"

Well, damn! And I was so hoping someone would condemn Aundotutunagir. Maybe if I'd put them back in the WA and have them join Macedon? Hmmmm....

[Erastide]

I don't think RPers should be excluded from using C&Cs. But then again, I don't know Doomingsland (sp?). I do know of Automagfreek though, I'd probably vote for a condemn for his nation. The C&Cs that are for people that noone knows won't make it to a vote. So the weeding process is reasonable.

[Mexar]

I don't think RPers should be excluded from using C&Cs. But then again, I don't know Doomingsland (sp?). I do know of Automagfreek though, I'd probably vote for a condemn for his nation. The C&Cs that are for people that noone knows won't make it to a vote. So the weeding process is reasonable.

Automagfreek would be an interesting case. Should he be condemned because his nation is evil, or commended because he's a great RPer? I don't suppose there's any way to do both.

[Bears Armed]

Automagfreek would be an interesting case. Should he be condemned because his nation is evil, or commended because he's a great RPer? I don't suppose there's any way to do both.

Sure, you'd just need to pass separate resolutions for each of those two purposes...

[Skeelzania]

I say condemn him for his excellent evil Roleplaying. When you want to recognize a nation for Roleplay purposes, I think its best to stick with IC-reasoning on choosing which category to use. Either way C&Cs are a rather substantial recognition, and having two seperate ones for (ultimately) the same reason is just silly.

The thought that condemnations would actually get bad people to change their ways, like Macedon, is also very very silly.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

I say condemn him for his excellent evil Roleplaying. When you want to recognize a nation for Roleplay purposes, I think its best to stick with IC-reasoning on choosing which category to use. Either way C&Cs are a rather substantial recognition, and having two seperate ones for (ultimately) the same reason is just silly.

The thought that condemnations would actually get bad people to change their ways, like Macedon, is also very very silly.

Skeelzania speaks truth. AMF doesn't recognize the WA in his RP, of course, so condemning his nation for its evilness is about as useful as telling Iran you're "deeply troubled" by their beating up protesters, but otherwise...yeah.

[Valipac]

I don't think RPers should be excluded from using C&Cs. But then again, I don't know Doomingsland (sp?). I do know of Automagfreek though, I'd probably vote for a condemn for his nation. The C&Cs that are for people that noone knows won't make it to a vote. So the weeding process is reasonable.

See, therein lies part of the problem. Really the only nation from II that some (because I bet a lot of these people might have never heard of him) of these people have heard of is AMF, who until very recently had been fairly inactive. Because there is so little recognition of II names in the SC, these resolutions stand little chance of passing.

[Erastide]

And there's also not a lot of recognition of Gameplay names on these forums. But if someone thinks someone else deserves a C&C, they can TG delegates and state a case as to why they think it should happen. Plus post their arguments with links on this forum.

[Quintessence of Dust]

Square pegs in round holes. C&Cs were introduced for gameplayers; it's not unreasonable, then, that roleplayers aren't having much success with them.

[Erastide]

Square pegs in round holes. C&Cs were introduced for gameplayers; it's not unreasonable, then, that roleplayers aren't having much success with them.

I don't honestly think the idea was that *only* gameplayers would use them. The other things coming out of the SC, yes. But C&Cs are for every type of player. Done through the WA true, but that avoids skewed voting through the use of puppets.

[Kingsley Bedford]

Why not just make it possible to vote on a GA and SC proposal at the same time? That way, you could keep the condemn and commend stuff, but still be able to vote on important things, like actual issues.

Since that isn't likely to happen, though, perhaps a way to restrict condemn and commend proposals, then?

It should be able to happen. But can I also say I have seen many GA proposals go up for vote that are just as timewasting as you claim the SC ones to be. I myself love the SC idea as it provides variety to what we discuss & settles our differences.

I also would like to see a GA & SC proposal up for vote at the same time

[Robert Hawkins]

This saves me making a thread myself. A number of Nations in my Region have telegrammed me asking how can they vote on a Condemn or Commend motion when they know nothing about the activities mentioned in proposals.

This section of the World Assembly has been created in haste; and I would like to see it stopped. What actually happens to someone who is condemned by the WA and it's members? Or to someone who is commended?

The short answer is precisely what happens in the real life UN. Nothing. Sanctions against Zimbabwe and Iraq and others don't stop the regimes there from what they are doing. So why should Nationstates have a section which will solve nothing and be there purely for cosmetic reason?

[Erastide]

Other SC proposals do and will carry weight. But you're objecting to a badge of honor or disgrace? If you don't like it, don't vote for it, or vote against it on the WA page.

[Robert Hawkins]

Other SC proposals do and will carry weight. But you're objecting to a badge of honor or disgrace? If you don't like it, don't vote for it, or vote against it on the WA page.

But you haven't actually said what happens if someone is condmned or commended. Why should I even bother to look at the proposals if they affect nothing in actual Gameplay terms?

[Erastide]

Liberation (currently the only other type) does affect Gameplay. But C&Cs are nice because they allow people to show appreciation to others. They're a bit silly, but honestly all medals and trophies are a bit silly. Some people enjoy that.

[Automagfreek]

Really the only nation from II that some (because I bet a lot of these people might have never heard of him) of these people have heard of is AMF, who until very recently had been fairly inactive.

I'm still here, just waiting for certain people to post before I can.