Draft: Liberate France

[Warner Channel]

Like Ballotonia, I am not a WA member, but there is no such category as "Liberation." Sorry.

[Dysian]

Like Ballotonia, I am not a WA member, but there is no such category as "Liberation." Sorry.

well, apparently now there is...
perhaps they should also implement one for invading. after all, it is a process very similar to liberating. Yeah, taking the delegate position with the help of a WA resolution. That would be great. Wussy, but great.

[Gaiah]

Nearly 1046 days delegate of France : a record many wanted to end.
So Macedon came with a passive nation nobody cared about. And suddenly his friends came and took control : password and ban of natives as soon as he get enough regional power.
I have created "france 2", region for banned french nations.
In fact, we can say that France is dead : macedon invader is alone, and has resigned the WA so the password is here forever...only solution : liberation !

[Naivetry]

It's obvious why you would want to free France, but you need to look at the other side of things. Macedon worked pretty damn hard to invade France and oust nearly every single person there, especially a region of that size and magnitude.

This is the thing - they did not. They conducted a raid like any other (except for multiing along the way, if we can take their performance in other regions as their usual MO). The only difference is that they placed a puppet in the region to accumulate Influence several months to a year in advance.

After that, all they needed to do was log in once every 60 days to keep that nation alive. Hard work? No, not exactly.

perhaps they should also implement one for invading. after all, it is a process very similar to liberating. Yeah, taking the delegate position with the help of a WA resolution. That would be great. Wussy, but great.

You may have missed the discussion, but a great number of people were concerned that raiders would use this category to do just that. So feel free to try. We'll be there to stop you every inch of the way. Get used to actually fighting for what you want to claim.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

Liberate france

Category: Liberation
Nominee (region): france
Proposed by: Gaiah

Description: France has been the major french region and place for nationstates tourists since his born.
In May 2009, Macedon has taken control of the region, password-protected it and eject old natives one by one.
As the former delegate of France, i call the World Assembly to remove the password of the region which became like "dead" because the invader is alone and resign to WA, so the password would last forever and no more french nations can reclaim their region.

Not that I hate it, but you have kind of rushed a bit, honoured ambassador. I am working to make a very strong and emotional case for France as well as setting a common format for other regions like Finland and Ireland. I do understand how desperate you are to get this liberation passed.

In fact do submit information for many Macedon-invaded regions so I can determine where the "customizable fields" can be placed and how it can be done. The template is starting to take shape.

Meanwhile, a shock development in international incidents, for your information: it appears the occupiers of France have gave in Ms. Harper's draft and abandoned the region and one of the natives have refounded France: Gilrabala. This is a real shocker for most but it's probably the Vergina Sun on our flag that fooled them into believing that we were Macedonian.

[Todd McCloud]

France has been refounded, making this resolution now defunct.

All eyes should now be on Pakistan, a passworded Macedonian region.

[Dysian]

Kiko says he was trying to refound France, when suddenly his nation got logged out BY ITSELF. By the time he logged in again (a VERY short period), France had been refounded.

Yes, this DOES look like a work of an admin/mod. And plus I see Sirroco's nation in France, and that makes it more than clear.
I was joking at first, when you made update 6 AM for Macedonia and submitted a Liberation category with the region of Macedon in mind, but now I'm serious. Let this serve as proof of the blatant injustice done against the Macedonians in Nationstates, and that we are so famous, that even mods are being haters

[Goobergunchia]

There have been a number of bugs reported about nations being seemingly randomly logged out. (I actually just had it happen to me after posting in the "New category rules" thread.) logged out of nation? seems to be relevant.

Dealing with odd bugs has always been part of the NationStates gameplay experience. Per Corinthe v. Francos Spain, taking advantage of such bugs is generally completely legal. I highly doubt that this is part of a Mod Conspiracy.

This has been an OOC post.

[Sirocco]

Kiko says he was trying to refound France, when suddenly his nation got logged out BY ITSELF. By the time he logged in again (a VERY short period), France had been refounded.

Yes, this DOES look like a work of an admin/mod. And plus I see Sirroco's nation in France, and that makes it more than clear.
I was joking at first, when you made update 6 AM for Macedonia and submitted a Liberation category with the region of Macedon in mind, but now I'm serious. Let this serve as proof of the blatant injustice done against the Macedonians in Nationstates, and that we are so famous, that even mods are being haters

No, this has nothing to do with us. I moved my nation there out of curiosity.

[Dysian]

yeah, my nation just got logged out twice while I was posting on this forum.

And don't try to change my mind, I know you're all conspiring against us here


This has been an OOC post. (I like this hahaha)

[Sirocco]

Let's keep on topic, now. Moderation shouldn't be part of the debate.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

France has been refounded, making this resolution now defunct.

All eyes should now be on Pakistan, a passworded Macedonian region.

Okay then, I will prepare that (OOC: now I finally got mobile Broadband!)

[Dysian]

France has been refounded, making this resolution now defunct.

All eyes should now be on Pakistan, a passworded Macedonian region.

Okay then, I will prepare that (OOC: now I finally got mobile Broadband!)

oh my goodness, this IS turning into a crusade against Macedon!
Don't you people have other things to be obsessed with? No really, you're making us look so cool...

[Todd McCloud]

France has been refounded, making this resolution now defunct.

All eyes should now be on Pakistan, a passworded Macedonian region.

Okay then, I will prepare that (OOC: now I finally got mobile Broadband!)

oh my goodness, this IS turning into a crusade against Macedon!
Don't you people have other things to be obsessed with? No really, you're making us look so cool...

Password-grabs are not raiding, they are disrespectful to raiding. That is all I will say.

[Northern Chittowa]

Like Ballotonia, I am not a WA member, but there is no such category as "Liberation." Sorry.

well, apparently now there is...
perhaps they should also implement one for invading. after all, it is a process very similar to liberating. Yeah, taking the delegate position with the help of a WA resolution. That would be great. Wussy, but great.

Well it can also help invaders. If there is a founderless region which is PWed that you wish to take control of, then you too can write a resolution to the WA asking for that PW to be removed. If you and other invaders work together to get the votes, it is possible...

Politics...Exciting, isn't it

[Veilyonia]

Like Ballotonia, I am not a WA member, but there is no such category as "Liberation." Sorry.

well, apparently now there is...
perhaps they should also implement one for invading. after all, it is a process very similar to liberating. Yeah, taking the delegate position with the help of a WA resolution. That would be great. Wussy, but great.

Funny, in the thread for 'Liberate belgium," you expressed your ardent distaste for raiding and politics interfering with one another...

On the other hand, you got writing a WA proposal and submitting it... yeah, REAL hard work to take over a region. Perhaps, as I stated before, in the future the REAL invaders will be those who do it through a WA proposal. Pathetic.

[Dysian]

Like Ballotonia, I am not a WA member, but there is no such category as "Liberation." Sorry.

well, apparently now there is...
perhaps they should also implement one for invading. after all, it is a process very similar to liberating. Yeah, taking the delegate position with the help of a WA resolution. That would be great. Wussy, but great.

Funny, in the thread for 'Liberate belgium," you expressed your ardent distaste for raiding and politics interfering with one another...

Of course, I was being IRONIC when I said it would be *great*.
And Northern Chittowa, if we target a region for password-liberation, ALL the fendas will know that we are trying to invade it. Much help for us huh?

EDIT: When someone says: "That's all I will say", it means he is left without any argument. Which in this case, Todd, is very true. You have nothing to prove that raiding Belgium (taking the delegate position) wasn't actually raiding.

[Veilyonia]

Funny, in the thread for 'Liberate belgium," you expressed your ardent distaste for raiding and politics interfering with one another...

Of course, I was being IRONIC when I said it would be *great*.
And Northern Chittowa, if we target a region for password-liberation, ALL the fendas will know that we are trying to invade it. Much help for us huh?

"Being ironic"... I'll skip criticizing your poor word choice and get to the heart of the matter. Yes, you are right about the fact that all the defenders will know if raiders target a region for a liberation. Did you ever stop to think that it is the same case for defenders? If defenders target a region for a liberation, all the raiders will know that we are trying to liberate it. It is hardly our fault that, unlike defenders, most raiders take little interest in invasions that do not affect their region. Secondly, how much more do you hope to accomplish with the password in place?

EDIT: When someone says: "That's all I will say", it means he is left without any argument. Which in this case, Todd, is very true. You have nothing to prove that raiding Belgium (taking the delegate position) wasn't actually raiding.

On the other hand, youy argument is just as weak as his, as you have stated nothing to prove that "raiding" belgium was an actual raid, which it wasn't. When regions raid other regions, they take the delegate spot, hang around for a spell, and leave. That's why it's called a "raid," it's the equivalent to a hit-and-run. On the other hand, what you did to France and Belgium can be classified as "region killing." You took the delegate position, passworded the region, and began ejecting members with the sole intent of expanding your "empires." There is a distinct difference between "raiding" and "region killing," both just happen to fall under the category of "invasions."

[Northern Chittowa]

Funny, in the thread for 'Liberate belgium," you expressed your ardent distaste for raiding and politics interfering with one another...

Of course, I was being IRONIC when I said it would be *great*.
And Northern Chittowa, if we target a region for password-liberation, ALL the fendas will know that we are trying to invade it. Much help for us huh?

"Being ironic"... I'll skip criticizing your poor word choice and get to the heart of the matter. Yes, you are right about the fact that all the defenders will know if raiders target a region for a liberation. Did you ever stop to think that it is the same case for defenders? If defenders target a region for a liberation, all the raiders will know that we are trying to liberate it. It is hardly our fault that, unlike defenders, most raiders take little interest in invasions that do not affect their region. Secondly, how much more do you hope to accomplish with the password in place?

I don't even have to say anything else, he has said it for me .

[Dysian]

raiding, invading, region killing, blah blah blah... it's all words man. no matter how you call it. As I've said before, I'm not very strong on words - I let deeds speak for me.

[Northern Chittowa]

raiding, invading, region killing, blah blah blah... it's all words man. no matter how you call it. As I've said before, I'm not very strong on words - I let deeds speak for me.

I have noticed that you use this a lot when people actually bring the argument to you...I have to say that it does very little to reinforce your overall position.

[Dysian]

deeds will reinforce my overall position.

[Northern Chittowa]

deeds will reinforce my overall position.

But the best generals in real life, as well as the best players in this game are those who can back up what they do with words. Its just part of the parcel of doing waht you do. You have chosen that way of life, and you have chosen to do what you do, but if you cant back it up when someone questions you, or indeed disagrees with you, then you really don't have much of a leg to stand on.

[Veilyonia]

raiding, invading, region killing, blah blah blah... it's all words man. no matter how you call it. As I've said before, I'm not very strong on words - I let deeds speak for me.

And your deeds have spoken for you, just not in your favor. As a result of your actions, you are now despised by the inhabitants of Belgium and infamous throughout NationStates. The only things that your deeds reinforce are the fact that you are not a raider, but a region destroyer. Your deeds are precisely the reason why we are having this debate. You seemed to have no problem criticizing my position earlier, until I made a statement you could not parry. Now you are hiding behind the belief that "your deeds will speak for you," except your deeds are most clearly speaking against you, and unless you leave Belgium, or backup what you've done with words, you will continue to come under fire.

[Dysian]

As a member of my region said: there is no such thing as bad publicity. The fact that you are having this discussion, and even changing the very rules of this game because of me, is something I take pride in. I and those of my caliber bring life to this game, no matter how much you nothing-doers are trying to deny it.

I'm not left out of arguments, I actually tire of explaining how what I did really is raiding, and copy/pasting my posts where it is all explained. I have proven many times that I am a real raider. To crash a region, you must raid it (take the delegate position) first.

But no matter what I say, you will always find a new definition of raiding just to counter mine, because you are being haters. And that's why I said words doesn't matter - it is irrelevant how you call it, when another person calls it another way. It's all relative and subjective, and thats why I shouldn't be wasting my words on it.

It is a very wise statement, if you look at it from a not-hating-Dysian point of view.