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[PASSED] Repeal: Condemn the Black Hawks (#217)

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Westinor
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

[PASSED] Repeal: Condemn the Black Hawks (#217)

Postby Westinor » Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:05 am

Hello! I hope you are all well today - I want to put forward what I am sure will be a contentious proposal topic today. We have long tried to hold Security Council Resolutions to fairly high standards – Condemnations are a sticky subject, given their muddied history as badges of honor or interregional denunciation. Without a doubt, though, the Condemnation I am seeking to repeal today does not stand up to any meaningful standard for the Security Council, both now and for its time.

It is evident that SCR#217 relies heavily on the accomplishments of others to make its case, bringing up Condemnations of others - many of which have been repealed - that barely allude to or do not even note the nominee’s membership in the Black Hawks. It is evident that SCR#217 leans greatly on the Black Hawks’ circumstantial position in history as the raider organization that was simply there, from their support of the 2013 TSP Coup to an individual’s – hardly a regional endeavor – attempted infiltration of Osiris. It is evident that SCR#217 has sought to blow out of proportion normal practice to exaggerate the notoriety of the target, from raids that have left nothing but imperceptible scars to the commonplace triggering of a Liberation proposal. And, if you are sensing a pattern here, then you should not be surprised that it is evident that SCR#217 is a resolution that takes advantage of short-lived hysteria and outrage to claim infamy for its target region.

I do not believe that SCR#217 deserves to continue standing in the Security Council – only by favorable political and historic winds has it continued to stand. If a case should be made for the target’s Condemnation, it is not made in this resolution – and for those reasons, it should be repealed.

What I’m sure will draw the most confusion is the submission of this proposal without prior forum drafting. The decision to submit without prior drafting, but definitely with extensive outreach, was made due to fears of quorum raiding and reprisal in the wake of this proposal. Attempted raids on regions for voting in support or approving this proposal, as well as queue stuffing and delaying regular business in the Council, are all things we would like to avoid. Rest assured that this draft has been passed around extensively to numerous regions and frequent commentators here. Some may label this an abuse of the WA - I do not believe this to be the case, and refer you to those that have made a joke out of topics like slavery and the war in Ukraine to facilitate the griefing of online communities for further expertise on the subject matter. If you have problems with the quality of the proposal, please feel free to comment here and we will address them as we can!

You can approve the proposal here -> https://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_vi ... 1725293102
The Security Council,

Identifying the basis for SC#217 as a second warning to the world on the danger of the Black Hawks, a raider organization renowned not for its destructive capability, feats, or daring, but rather its longevity, a byproduct of historical mediocrity and operational reticence,

Noting that SC#217 only highlights these qualities of the Black Hawks, showcasing largely mediocre and minimally impactful operations headed by the supposedly feared raiding force, while the rest of the resolution leans on support for others’ achievements and the condemnation of individuals who, at one time or another, invoked notoriety for feats largely unrelated to the Black Hawks including:
  • Condemn Gest (SC#122), which mentions the Black Hawks in passing in one clause, and whose nominee was not heavily involved in the region’s exploits,
  • Condemn Milograd (SC#77 and SC#97), which does not mention the Black Hawks whatsoever and whose despicable deeds, while enabled by the raider organization, could hardly be said to be wholly facilitated by them,
  • Condemn General Halcones (SC#165), which also does not mention the Black Hawks, referring only to their membership in a different region,
  • Noting that even if these condemnations drew weight to the Black Hawks’ name (which would be dubious, considering the devastation wreaked by these nations can hardly be attributed to the region itself), several of the mentioned Condemnations have since been repealed without replacement,

Further pointing out that the “Support” and “Successful” clauses, which highlight determinedly dreadful deeds by bad actors, specifically refer to efforts either only supported by the Black Hawks, as with the 2013 coup d’etat of the South Pacific, or not even involving them as a region, as with the individual infiltration of Osiris, an operation conducted by one nation, not by the larger group and thus not accreditable to them,

Examining further SC#217’s claim that the Black Hawks have built a foundation for the argument that they should be the “most feared raider organization” in the world, with attention paid to the fact that the major evidence for this claim are weak – including:
  • the “Toppling” subclause, which refers to delegacy streak breaks – a largely inconsequential form of raid – on regions listed that have relatively weak defenses, making this feat not nearly as weighty nor as difficult as the resolution makes it out to be,
  • the “The Black Hawks” subclause, which refers to a standard Security Council practice both before and after SC#217’s passage to protect regions via Liberation passage, a response invoked by raider regions both large and small in contexts more dependent on the target than the raiding party’s efforts,
  • the “Invasions’ subclause, which points to regions like Hell, Canada, and Portugal, all of which have easily withstood the test of raider occupations and outlived any damage dealt by the Black Hawks’ efforts,

Expounding the fact that SC#217 fails to deliver on the argument that the Black Hawks’ actions are anywhere close to a level of severity deserving of interregional Condemnation, only bringing forth examples of tepid involvement in others’ misadventures or relatively unmemorable strikes that lack even basic detail into operational consequences, likely due to their relatively routine nature in cyclical military activity in Nationstates – an apt description of the Black Hawks themselves, whose organization has hardly ever distinguished itself from a bug on the windshield wiper of history, never rising above the shadows of its contemporary raider peers,

Affirming that greater evidence, stronger proof, and a far more solid argument is necessary to warrant the ringing of interregional alarm bells, given that the existing resolutions fail to stand both against the test of time and of scrutiny,

Congratulating the Black Hawks for their continued persistence in the face of long-lived mediocrity,

Hereby repeals SC#217: “Condemn the Black Hawks.”
Last edited by Goobergunchia on Fri Sep 06, 2024 9:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Stay safe, be kind, and have a great day! :)

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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:24 am

Against - not drafted on the forum. Bad form that, avoiding scrutiny.
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Differences-In-Differences
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Postby Differences-In-Differences » Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:27 am

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Comfed
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Postby Comfed » Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:28 am

The North Pacific recommends a vote for this Security Council resolution. Our voting advisory can be found here, and is also reproduced for the forums below:

Overview
This proposal repeals SC#217, "Condemn The Black Hawks." The target is actually the second iteration of the resolution in question, as The Black Hawks have two condemnations. The repeal argues that SC#217 is substandard by Security Council standards, and relies largely on operations of little historical significance. Further, it asserts that the target resolution relies too much on the actions of specific individuals that were not accomplishments of the region as a whole.

Recommendation
The authors of this repeal make a convincing case that SC#217 is a sub-par resolution, and was even at the time of passage. They are quite right to point out the several points in 217 the Condemnation that are not even creditable to The Black Hawks, such as the clause referencing Mallorea and Riva's role in the 2013 coup of The South Pacific, or the clause discussing the Condemned nations who have inhabited TBH. In those cases, the resolution rests on individual accomplishments which, while they are often connected to The Black Hawks, are not ones that TBH can claim as its own. When SC#217 does discuss things actually done by TBH, it relies heavily on operations of little consequence which were easily reversed. In all, the resolution does not paint a picture of a hugely impactful villain -- it paints a picture of an ordinary raider region of moderate significance.

For the above reasons, the Ministry of World Assembly Affairs recommends a vote FOR the SC proposal at vote, "Repeal: Condemn The Black Hawls".

This IFV Recommendation was written by Comfed in collaboration with the Ministry of World Assembly Affairs.
Last edited by Comfed on Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Europeia
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Postby Europeia » Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:30 am

Hello, please find below the Information for Voters by the Ministry of World Assembly Affairs of Europeia
We recommend a vote FOR this proposal
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=2550919
~SkyGreen♅⛢

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Quebecshire
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Postby Quebecshire » Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:31 am

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Against - not drafted on the forum. Bad form that, avoiding scrutiny.

Hello BBD!

I understand your concern here, but I think it misses the mark slightly. This proposal was always going to face heavy scrutiny, and still will. Additionally, it was reviewed by quite a few sets of eyes (including the vast majority of regular SC commentators).

Furthermore, the main reason for hesitancy in forum drafting, which was discussed at length, was raider reprisal. Throughout the main proposals targetting invaders (or invader-adjacent regions) over the last few years, regions supporting them have been heavily targetted. There was quorum raiding, attacking delegates which voiced support (notably Equilism, a close/historic friend of TWP, during the repeal of Souls' condemnation), and similar tactics employed. It's likely raiders will try this again here, but giving them minimal time and options to do so is better for everyone, as they look for new intimidation tactics to impose.

The quality is still strong and debate is still plenty available, so I do not think this suffers from a lack of drafting the same way, say, an original or research-dependent new C/C would. I understand the concern, but the circumstances here necessitate a different approach.
Last edited by Quebecshire on Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Gagium
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Postby Gagium » Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:42 am

Image

Vote FOR Repeal "Condemn The Black Hawks"



The Republic of The League & Concord supports the repeal of Condemn The Black Hawks for a litany of reasons. Before getting into those, it must be stated for those unaware that this action is one taken against The Black Hawks. Despite the literal meaning of the word "condemnation", a condemnation is still valued by its target as a form of Security Council recognition. An example members of our regions would be familiar with is Condemn Creeperopolis, which rewarded his long-time contributions to our roleplay.

So, why Repeal "Condemn The Black Hawks"?

  • The Black Hawks are an invader region, using their members and what power they do have to terrorize innocent communities, even destroying them in some cases. This is not behavior that should be met with a reward from the Security Council.
  • The Black Hawks do not respect the Security Council. In addition to their antagonism of uninvolved, innocent communities on a normal basis, they frequently invade regions which vote against their preferences in the WA. They have also been known to submit fake proposals to fillibuster legitimate SC activity, such as resolutions to liberate occupied regions being held by raiders.
  • The Black Hawks are at war with The League & Concord, our regions, and took part in an attempt to depose the Delegate of Concord earlier this year, an invasion of our regions that cannot stand and must be met with retaliation, including this as a political measure. They have also supported the invasion of multiple of our allies in recent years.
  • The targeted proposal has several weak points in its own argument for The Black Hawks condemnability, such as attempting to invoke the reputation of individual players no longer involved with the region to support their misdeeds, or pointing to invasions of regions that have long repelled attempted destruction by The Black Hawks.



For those reasons, The League & Concord recommends all resident nations and other readers VOTE FOR Repeal "Condemn The Black Hawks". WA Delegates Gagium and Mechanocracy will support the proposal in the approval and voting phases.
Delegate of The League

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Angeloid Astraea
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Postby Angeloid Astraea » Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:46 am

Sorry to interrupt the coordinated Vote Recommendation spam with my comment!

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Against - not drafted on the forum. Bad form that, avoiding scrutiny.


This is what they always do with legislation they know will face too much criticism in the drafting stage.
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Westinor
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Postby Westinor » Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:51 am

Angeloid Astraea wrote:Sorry to interrupt the coordinated Vote Recommendation spam with my comment!

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Against - not drafted on the forum. Bad form that, avoiding scrutiny.


This is what they always do with legislation they know will face too much criticism in the drafting stage.

You’re so okay! This is actually what we tend to do with legislation we know will face quorum raiding, interference in queue and other circumventions of thetypical drafting process that spring up when you give certain parties a chance to :)
Stay safe, be kind, and have a great day! :)

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Angeloid Astraea
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Postby Angeloid Astraea » Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:53 am

Westinor wrote:
Angeloid Astraea wrote:Sorry to interrupt the coordinated Vote Recommendation spam with my comment!



This is what they always do with legislation they know will face too much criticism in the drafting stage.

You’re so okay! This is actually what we tend to do with legislation we know will face quorum raiding, interference in queue and other circumventions of thetypical drafting process that spring up when you give certain parties a chance to :)

There's no reason to bump free advertisement out of the queue.
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Chef Big Dog
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Postby Chef Big Dog » Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:58 am

I think you should stick to commending people over and over for introducing columns in the EBC or whatever it is Europeians do. Against, naturally.
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UPC
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Postby UPC » Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:02 am

LGTM, ship it
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Dragonian Kazaman
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Postby Dragonian Kazaman » Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:03 am

Happy to see this initiative, support of course.

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Dyanderna
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Postby Dyanderna » Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:12 am

I can’t wait to see this attempt at steamrolling a proposal through backfire immensely. If there’s one thing to Commend about attempts like these is that you keep trying to stop the raiders no matter what. Not in action mind, but the words are pretty at least.

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Mythica
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Postby Mythica » Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:16 am

Westinor wrote:Noting that SC#217 only highlights these qualities of the Black Hawks, showcasing largely mediocre and minimally impactful operations headed by the supposedly feared raiding force,

I need help. Is this the same author that not that long ago thought hosting summer festivals could be commendable? That made sense to me, because if events are big and noteworthy in their time, they were big and noteworthy. Very few events have permanent impact in this world. Most big things are like summer festivals, great for those there for it. But it has no meaning to those that were not. It seems a very different standard is being applied to this nominee for some reason. Is there some political spat that makes this proposal make more sense?

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Ramlethal
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Postby Ramlethal » Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:17 am

Support.
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Postby Honeydewistania » Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:17 am

Mythica wrote:Is there some political spat that makes this proposal make more sense?


Yes.
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Mad Jack Is Rejected
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Postby Mad Jack Is Rejected » Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:23 am

Against, and I hope to see TRR won't go along with this slop. And I bet y'all have a repeal of their other condemnation in the works too, can't have raiders recognised by this body after all.
Last edited by Mad Jack Is Rejected on Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Angeloid Astraea
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Postby Angeloid Astraea » Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:26 am

Mythica wrote:It seems a very different standard is being applied to this nominee for some reason.


The author and her supporters started at "Remove a condemn badge from TBH" and worked backwards from there. That's why there's things that contradict her past Commend proposals. =P
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Varanius
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Postby Varanius » Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:38 am

Mad Jack Is Rejected wrote:Against, and I hope to see TRR won't go along with this slop. And I bet y'all have a repeal of their other condemnation in the works too, can't have raiders recognised by this body after all.
Raiders get condemns all the time. LWU’s still got all of theirs :)
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Cyptopir
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Postby Cyptopir » Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:40 am

Next thing you know we'll be commending raiders somehow. :p
Last edited by Cyptopir on Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Angeloid Astraea
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Postby Angeloid Astraea » Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:42 am

Varanius wrote:
Mad Jack Is Rejected wrote:Against, and I hope to see TRR won't go along with this slop. And I bet y'all have a repeal of their other condemnation in the works too, can't have raiders recognised by this body after all.
Raiders get condemns all the time. LWU’s still got all of theirs :)

I'm not sure you want to use LWU's condemns as an example of something that defenders in the SC are very rational about.
Last edited by Angeloid Astraea on Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Varanius
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Postby Varanius » Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:45 am

Angeloid Astraea wrote:
Varanius wrote: Raiders get condemns all the time. LWU’s still got all of theirs :)

I'm not sure you want to use LWU's condemns as an example of something that defenders in the SC are very rational about.
Sure, and I don’t think I need to remind you that this will likely pass not because of the inevitable defender support, but because of the entirely preventable support of independents TBH has alienated if not outright attacked. Something not intrinsic to the raider cause at all.
Last edited by Varanius on Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Veszcota
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Postby Veszcota » Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:56 am

Putting aside the confluence of other reasons I couldn't possibly support this despite my general agreement that the resolution being targeted for repeal is not a particularly strong one, I'm disappointed that childish insults directed at the condemned region have somehow made it into a draft that supposedly had critical eyes directed at it in private drafting sessions, given how unfitting they are for a World Assembly resolution.

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Angeloid Astraea
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Postby Angeloid Astraea » Mon Sep 02, 2024 11:00 am

Varanius wrote:
Angeloid Astraea wrote:I'm not sure you want to use LWU's condemns as an example of something that defenders in the SC are very rational about.
Sure, and I don’t think I need to remind you that this will likely pass not because of the inevitable defender support, but because of the entirely preventable support of independents TBH has alienated if not outright attacked. Something not intrinsic to the raider cause at all.

You and everyone else that pushes the MGC Sanctions of regions like TBH need something to pass around to the populations of your regions as evidence that the sanctions have done something, and this repeal would be exactly that. I'm sure that TBH remembers that independents are the ones that diplomatically mistreated them after the accident in Stargate. They won't go running back to you just because you have political power in the Security Council. =]
Last edited by Angeloid Astraea on Mon Sep 02, 2024 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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