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[PASSED] Statement on Conflict in Varathron

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The Ice States
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[PASSED] Statement on Conflict in Varathron

Postby The Ice States » Sun Jun 04, 2023 1:33 pm

(Ooc: This is meant to be an Ic thread. However people are free to post Ooc here if they wish.

For context, this is about an RP ran by Jagada (a respected RPer who controls the nation Fortress Automailia Ooc, although that nation is canonically ran by Kraven). The RP can be found here. State of Ordena is the same player as United World Order, another long-time respected RPer condemned via SC #212.

Character count is currently 4954, excluding line breaks.)


It was no regular day for the Ice Human Rights Council. It was an independent body to the Ice States; however it had a deal with the Ice States making it a de facto observer of the World Assembly, with the Ice States obligated to submit any proposal authored by the Ice Human Rights Council, on request of that body. And so the World Assembly representative of the body, Eugenio Freker, spoke to the World Assembly as he presented what was in fact the first World Assembly proposal from the Human Rights Council.

"Greetings, ladies, gentlemen, and everyone else. I come here to present a proposal regarding matters which have been brewing in the region of Varathron. As many may know, Varathron is a region effectively commanded by another infamous region which this body has condemned in the past -- Gholgoth itself. And two major powers, that of the Ordenite Reich and the Unfied Authority of Kraven, have been leading a major war in the region, which may threaten the stability of not only Varathron, but Gholgoth, Greater Dienstad, and all other regions under the sphere of influence of Gholgoth and Varathron. We strongly believe that in such troubling times, the World Assembly should formally declare its position -- that it will stand strong even in the face of such matters, and one for civil rights, peace and freedom."

"Without further ado, we present the Statement on Conflict in Varathron..."

Recognising that, for the past months, the region Varathron ran under the auspices of the infamous Gholgoth has been the location of an intense and escalating conflict between two of the worst powers in this multiverse;

Remembering the origins of one belligerent in this conflict, Fortress Automailia, as an independent state with a burgeoning democracy subjected to the evil of The Kraven Corporation, which brutally invaded the nation and converted into a mere fortress to allow The Kraven Corporation to spread its evil within Varathron;

Recalling too the origins of Dietsland as a partial colony of Automagfreek before it was seized by the State of Ordena in the aftermath of a Drakonian Imperium-led peacekeeping mission in Dietsland, placing the people of Dietsland under the rule of yet another evil power;

Noting that an clash of the evil of these two nations would inevitably occur when "Operation COLOSSUS" commenced, an invasion upon Dietsland performed by Fortress Automailia yet masterminded by The Kraven Corporation from Fortress Norska to place the citizens of Dietsland under the rule of yet another malevolent superpower, after Fortress Automailia invaded other nations around its viscinity such as the Cronus Islands;

Perturbed by the sheer brutality of Automailia in commencing the war in what can only be termed aggression, deploying warheads not only upon Dietslander military targets, but also upon civilian assets including power stations, manufacturing centres and waste treatment facilities;

Realising that even so, Automailian forces are far from the only parties responsible for atrocities, shown by events as

  • the use of biological weapons by Langong to attack Automailian forces, a reckless action which represented an unnecessary escalation of an already delicate situation and endangered countless civilians while destroying the entire marine ecosystem around Cronus Prime;

  • the summary execution of Ordenite military personnel suspected of mutiny without any sort of trial; and

  • Ordenite forces additionally rigging civilian bridges over the Mayireni River with explosives in an almost comical attempt to maintain their tyranny over Dietsland;
Fearful that not only is this war grossly dangerous on the lives and dignity of countless civilians in Varathron, but also merely a brewing apocalypse given the sheer quantity of corrupt superpowers simultaneously warring each other;

Seeking to clarify its stance in such dangerous times for peace and human rights, and affirming that this body will continue to stand strong in the face of war and strife;

The World Assembly declares as follows:

  1. The ongoing conflict in Varathron initiated by Fortress Automailia invading states including Dietsland is a concerning matter which poses an immense danger to civilian life and to nations around the multiverse; but especially near the sphere of influence of Gholgoth and Varathron. Not only is it directly causing immense casualties to those near the area of the war; but if the invasion of Dietsland is successful, it will provide yet another powerbase and resource mine to The Kraven Corporation, allowing it to spread its evil even further.

  2. Said conflict is a war of aggression. To that end, we as free member nations demand that Fortress Automailia halt any ongoing invasion of states in Varathron. Every nation should withhold all assistance to Fortress Automailia in these invasions. Further, all claims by Fortress Automailia of territory gained during this conflict are unrecognised by the World Assembly.

  3. In addition, the World Assembly in the strongest possible terms censures all attacks on civilian life and property by all forces in the war. The World Assembly thus demands that all such attacks be immediately ceased. To prevent further escalation of conflict, no nation should engage in military action against Fortress Automailia or The Kraven Corporation to retaliate against its attacks, except strictly to recover those territories or resources seized by Fortress Automailia during this war, should Fortress Automailia refuse to return these territories and resources.

  4. All parties currently involved in said conflict are strongly urged to hold diplomatic negotiations so as to halt any related conflicts and prevent armed conflict relating to this matter from resuming. Concerned nations are encouraged to cooperate with parties to the conflict in order to host or otherwise facilitate such negotiations.

  5. Concerned parties can also assist in mitigating the war by rendering humanitarian or military self-defense aid to nations subject to invasion by Fortress Automailia, along the lines of similar action by Kylarnatia to safeguard nations in Varathron.
Last edited by Goobergunchia on Fri Jul 07, 2023 10:38 am, edited 18 times in total.
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The Ice States
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Postby The Ice States » Sun Jun 04, 2023 1:35 pm

Recognising that, for the past months, the region of Varathron ran under the auspices of the infamous Gholgoth has been the location of an intense and escalating conflict between two of the worst powers in this multiverse;

Remembering the origins of one belligerent in this conflict, Fortress Automailia, as an independent state with a burgeoning democracy subjected to the evil of The Kraven Corporation, which brutally invaded the nation and converted into a mere fortress to allow The Kraven Corporation to spread its evil within Varathron;

Recalling too the origins of Dietsland as a partial colony of Automagfreek before it was seized by Greater Ordena in the aftermath of a Drakonian Imperium-led peacekeeping mission in Dietsland, placing the people of Dietsland under the sovereignty of yet another evil power;

Noting that an clash of the evil of these two nations would inevitably occur when "Operation COLOSSUS" commenced, an invasion upon Dietsland performed by Fortress Automailia yet masterminded by The Kraven Corporation from Fortress Norska to place the citizens of Dietsland under the rule of yet another malevolent superpower, after Fortress Automailia invaded other nations around its viscinity such as the Cronus Islands;

Perturbed by the sheer brutality of Automailia in commencing the war in what can only be termed aggression, deploying warheads not only upon Dietslander military targets, but also upon civilian assets including power stations, manufacturing centres and waste treatement facilities;

Realising that even so, Automailian forces are far from the only parties responsible for atrocities, shown by such events as

  • the use of biological weapons by Langong to attack Automailian forces, a reckless action which represented an unnecessary escalation of an already delicate situation while destroying the entire marine ecosystem around Cronus Prime, as well as a significant danger to civilians unlucky enough to be anywhere near the area; and

  • the summary execution of Ordenite military personnel suspected of mutiny without any sort of trial, as well as the rigging of civilian bridges over the Mayireni River with explosives in an almost comical attempt to maintain Ordenite tyranny over Dietsland;
Fearful that not only is this war grossly dangerous on the lives and dignity of countless civilians in Varathron, but also merely a brewing apocalypse given the sheer quantity of corrupt superpowers simultaneously warring each other;

Seeking to clarify its stance in such dangerous times for peace and human rights, and affirming that this body will continue to stand strong in the face of war and strife;

The World Assembly declares as follows:

  1. The ongoing conflict in Varathron initiated by Fortress Automailia invading states including Dietsland is a concerning matter which poses an immense danger to civilian life and to nations around the multiverse; but especially near the sphere of influence of Gholgoth and Varathron. Not only is it directly causing immense casulaties to those near the area of the war; but if the invasion of Dietsland is successful, it will provide yet another powerbase and resource mine to The Kraven Corporation, allowing it to spread its evil even further.

  2. Said conflict is a war of aggression. To that end, we as free member nations demand that Fortress Automailia halt any ongoing invasion of states in Varathron. Each nation should withhold any assistance to Fortress Automailia in these invasions. Further, all claims by Fortress Automailia of territory gained during this conflict shall be unrecognised by the World Assembly.

  3. Despite this, the World Assembly in the strongest possible terms censures all attacks on civilian life and property by all forces in the war. The World Assembly thus demands that all such attacks be immediately ceased. In addition, to prevent further escalation of conflict, no nation should engage in military action against Fortress Automailia or The Kraven Corporation to retaliate against its attacks, except strictly to recover those territories or resources seized by Fortress Automailia during this war, should Fortress Automailia refuse to return these territories and resources.

  4. All parties currently involved in said conflict are strongly urged to hold diplomatic negotiations so as to halt any related conflicts and prevent armed conflict relating to this matter from resuming. Concerned nations are encouraged to cooperate with parties to the conflict in order to host or otherwise facilitate such negotiations.
Last edited by The Ice States on Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Westinor
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Postby Westinor » Sun Jun 04, 2023 1:46 pm

Stated how I felt this was a unique and particularly interesting take on both RP and the SC. Good work.
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Sedgistan
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Postby Sedgistan » Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:11 pm

I've only skimmed your proposal. I suggest that prior to submission you request a mod ruling with regards to Rule 3b before referring to the roleplaying of the nation United World Order (deleted and various posts removed for glorifying Nazism) or Kraven (posts removed for similar reasons). Any ruling on the latter is unlikely to come soon given ongoing discussions. I note that a skim of the thread you're linking also has a high quantity of "Heils", various "Fuhrers", "Wehrmacht", "Luftwaffe" and similar references in it.

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The Ice States
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Postby The Ice States » Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:24 pm

Sedgistan wrote:I've only skimmed your proposal. I suggest that prior to submission you request a mod ruling with regards to Rule 3b before referring to the roleplaying of the nation United World Order (deleted and various posts removed for glorifying Nazism) or Kraven (posts removed for similar reasons). Any ruling on the latter is unlikely to come soon given ongoing discussions. I note that a skim of the thread you're linking also has a high quantity of "Heils", various "Fuhrers", "Wehrmacht", "Luftwaffe" and similar references in it.

I want to make one thing explicit. Regardless of my position on the situation regarding the deletion fo Kraven, this proposal has absolutely nothing to do with the deletion of Kraven. It was an idea I had floated in public channels well before this incident. I held off on pursuing this until recently due to that situation (and to that end the roleplay being temporarily halted). However I would have drafted this even had the deletion of Kraven not occurred, and the draft has nothing to do with that situation. There is no mention of the situation regarding the deletion of either player in the draft.
Last edited by The Ice States on Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Varanius » Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:26 pm

Initial support due to the word Vara in the title
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Eternal Algerstonia
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Postby Eternal Algerstonia » Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:59 pm

Sedgistan wrote:I've only skimmed your proposal. I suggest that prior to submission you request a mod ruling with regards to Rule 3b before referring to the roleplaying of the nation United World Order (deleted and various posts removed for glorifying Nazism) or Kraven (posts removed for similar reasons). Any ruling on the latter is unlikely to come soon given ongoing discussions. I note that a skim of the thread you're linking also has a high quantity of "Heils", various "Fuhrers", "Wehrmacht", "Luftwaffe" and similar references in it.

:roll:

Are you now saying that Kraven is completely unmentionable despite having a nation still active and having a Condemnation to his name?
Last edited by Eternal Algerstonia on Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mallorea and Riva
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Postby Mallorea and Riva » Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:23 pm

Eternal Algerstonia wrote:
Sedgistan wrote:I've only skimmed your proposal. I suggest that prior to submission you request a mod ruling with regards to Rule 3b before referring to the roleplaying of the nation United World Order (deleted and various posts removed for glorifying Nazism) or Kraven (posts removed for similar reasons). Any ruling on the latter is unlikely to come soon given ongoing discussions. I note that a skim of the thread you're linking also has a high quantity of "Heils", various "Fuhrers", "Wehrmacht", "Luftwaffe" and similar references in it.

:roll:

Are you now saying that Kraven is completely unmentionable despite having a nation still active and having a Condemnation to his name?

That's not at all what Sedge said. Sedge didn't even provide a ruling - just a suggestion that the author get a ruling with respect to possible Rule 3b issues in light of the fact that two of the players mentioned had their posts removed.
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Eternal Algerstonia
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Postby Eternal Algerstonia » Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:52 pm

Mallorea and Riva wrote:
Eternal Algerstonia wrote: :roll:

Are you now saying that Kraven is completely unmentionable despite having a nation still active and having a Condemnation to his name?

That's not at all what Sedge said. Sedge didn't even provide a ruling - just a suggestion that the author get a ruling with respect to possible Rule 3b issues in light of the fact that two of the players mentioned had their posts removed.

Alright, let me rephrase that. We're just a ruling (likely by Sedgistan) away from having a player with an active nation and recognition from the World Assembly be completely unmentionable in any Security Council resolution?

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Mallorea and Riva
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Postby Mallorea and Riva » Sun Jun 04, 2023 5:00 pm

Eternal Algerstonia wrote:
Mallorea and Riva wrote:That's not at all what Sedge said. Sedge didn't even provide a ruling - just a suggestion that the author get a ruling with respect to possible Rule 3b issues in light of the fact that two of the players mentioned had their posts removed.

Alright, let me rephrase that. We're just a ruling (likely by Sedgistan) away from having a player with an active nation and recognition from the World Assembly be completely unmentionable in any Security Council resolution?

If you'd like to give your opinion on the applicability of Rule 3b to the situation then feel free to do so. I don't think wild speculation is helpful to the author or the broader discussion.
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The Ice States
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Postby The Ice States » Sun Jun 04, 2023 5:34 pm

The Ice States wrote:
Sedgistan wrote:I've only skimmed your proposal. I suggest that prior to submission you request a mod ruling with regards to Rule 3b before referring to the roleplaying of the nation United World Order (deleted and various posts removed for glorifying Nazism) or Kraven (posts removed for similar reasons). Any ruling on the latter is unlikely to come soon given ongoing discussions. I note that a skim of the thread you're linking also has a high quantity of "Heils", various "Fuhrers", "Wehrmacht", "Luftwaffe" and similar references in it.

I want to make one thing explicit. Regardless of my position on the situation regarding the deletion fo Kraven, this proposal has absolutely nothing to do with the deletion of Kraven. It was an idea I had floated in public channels well before this incident. I held off on pursuing this until recently due to that situation (and to that end the roleplay being temporarily halted). However I would have drafted this even had the deletion of Kraven not occurred, and the draft has nothing to do with that situation. There is no mention of the situation regarding the deletion of either player in the draft.

I would like to ask that this thread remain focused on the proposal in the OP, and associated roleplay please.
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Mlakhavia
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Postby Mlakhavia » Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:54 pm

Yeah, I think it could be said that this is best considered an RP Statement moreso than a statement on moderation. Let people play the game.

RE: the draft, it all seems good, though:
> the summary execution of Ordenite military personnel suspected of mutiny without any sort of trial, as well as the rigging of civilian bridges over the Mayireni River with explosives in an almost comical attempt to maintain Ordenite tyranny over Dietsland;

This doesn't quite read right. It seems too run-on -- perhaps a breaking up of the clause would be nice?
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Honeydewistania
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Postby Honeydewistania » Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:15 pm

Support due to content and an actual good use of declaration, against due to Vara in title
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The Ice States
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Postby The Ice States » Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:42 pm

Mlakhavia wrote:Yeah, I think it could be said that this is best considered an RP Statement moreso than a statement on moderation. Let people play the game.

RE: the draft, it all seems good, though:
> the summary execution of Ordenite military personnel suspected of mutiny without any sort of trial, as well as the rigging of civilian bridges over the Mayireni River with explosives in an almost comical attempt to maintain Ordenite tyranny over Dietsland;

This doesn't quite read right. It seems too run-on -- perhaps a breaking up of the clause would be nice?

Thanks for this comment -- I have effected this change.

Honeydewistania wrote:Support due to content and an actual good use of declaration, against due to Vara in title

Thanks for the support.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:04 pm

The World Assembly thus demands that all such attacks be immediately ceased.


Demands? More than a Declaration can do I think.

Apart from that this is very much a niche subject, so hard No from me.
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Fort Concord
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Postby Fort Concord » Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:07 pm

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
The World Assembly thus demands that all such attacks be immediately ceased.


Demands? More than a Declaration can do I think.



This came up in the WA server, and I do disagree here. A demand is functionall an aggressive request/encouragement, it's not binding. Functionally, every WA proposal that sets out any guidelines is a "demand" of sorts, even if worded more kindly.
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Crazy girl
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Postby Crazy girl » Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:16 pm

Hm, I think BBD may have a point there, as declarations can only provide an opinion.

Edit: I can bring it up with the other SC mods if needed.
Last edited by Crazy girl on Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Fort Concord » Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:18 pm

Crazy girl wrote:Hm, I think BBD may have a point there, as declarations can only provide an opinion.

How is "demands" functionally different from "requests", "suggests", etc. - the WA isn't forcing them to do it by demanding it, nor pretending it necessarily can.

It's really just a difference in tone, I'd argue.
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The Ice States
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Postby The Ice States » Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:38 pm

In the GA, demands are considered binding. However I think that is different in the context of an SC declaration, as those are presumptively non-binding; and a word such as demands can probably be interpreted as non-binding in this context. I would certainly appreicate a Moderator ruling on that; if needed I will change that wording.

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Apart from that this is very much a niche subject, so hard No from me.

This is a fair position, although I largely disagree -- the relevant RP is a very detailed, well-thought-out one with a lot of effort put into it. In the NS world, it would definitely be a significant event to have a massive war between two condemned powers involving not only those two nations, but numerous other powers in the area, eg Drakonian Imperium, Ghant, Kylarnatia, and others. In-universe, it therefore makes sense for the WA to address this. Ooc, I think this is a novel use of the declaration function which we should explore (as opposed to simply using them for jokes, which seems to be the primary use of declarations as of late); and given the significance and extensiveness of the roleplay this is about, we can certainly use that roleplay to explore such use of the function.
Last edited by The Ice States on Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Dephire
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Postby Dephire » Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:48 am

Sedgistan wrote:I've only skimmed your proposal. I suggest that prior to submission you request a mod ruling with regards to Rule 3b before referring to the roleplaying of the nation United World Order (deleted and various posts removed for glorifying Nazism) or Kraven (posts removed for similar reasons). Any ruling on the latter is unlikely to come soon given ongoing discussions. I note that a skim of the thread you're linking also has a high quantity of "Heils", various "Fuhrers", "Wehrmacht", "Luftwaffe" and similar references in it.


Heil - https://www.thefreedictionary.com/heils - German greeting of respect. also vb. To greet someone.

Fuhrer - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrer - While could be associated with the content you are obsessed over, it has been used in history before.

Wehrmacht - I'll give that to you. German was for "home defence".

Luftwaffe - https://www.britannica.com/topic/Luftwaffe - German "air weapon"... Still in use today.


Not an attack against Sedge, just trying to show that not all German words are "Nazi" words.
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Honeydewistania
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Postby Honeydewistania » Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:53 am

Dephire wrote:
Sedgistan wrote:I've only skimmed your proposal. I suggest that prior to submission you request a mod ruling with regards to Rule 3b before referring to the roleplaying of the nation United World Order (deleted and various posts removed for glorifying Nazism) or Kraven (posts removed for similar reasons). Any ruling on the latter is unlikely to come soon given ongoing discussions. I note that a skim of the thread you're linking also has a high quantity of "Heils", various "Fuhrers", "Wehrmacht", "Luftwaffe" and similar references in it.


Heil - https://www.thefreedictionary.com/heils - German greeting of respect. also vb. To greet someone.

Fuhrer - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrer - While could be associated with the content you are obsessed over, it has been used in history before.

Wehrmacht - I'll give that to you. German was for "home defence".

Luftwaffe - https://www.britannica.com/topic/Luftwaffe - German "air weapon"... Still in use today.


Not an attack against Sedge, just trying to show that not all German words are "Nazi" words.


When you're using words like Luftwaffe, Fuhrer and Wehrmacht, you're making a clear reference to Nazi Germany. It's ridiculous to pretend otherwise.
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Dephire
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dephire » Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:56 am

Honeydewistania wrote:
Dephire wrote:
Heil - https://www.thefreedictionary.com/heils - German greeting of respect. also vb. To greet someone.

Fuhrer - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrer - While could be associated with the content you are obsessed over, it has been used in history before.

Wehrmacht - I'll give that to you. German was for "home defence".

Luftwaffe - https://www.britannica.com/topic/Luftwaffe - German "air weapon"... Still in use today.


Not an attack against Sedge, just trying to show that not all German words are "Nazi" words.


When you're using words like Luftwaffe, Fuhrer and Wehrmacht, you're making a clear reference to Nazi Germany. It's ridiculous to pretend otherwise.


It was my understanding within the rules that context was key. However, you are entitled to your opinion. Obviously looking at sources is too much to ask.
"My nation was forged by the blade of a sword and so it lives on through the sword." -Tristan Skragg, Emperor of Briska.

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Honeydewistania
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Founded: Jun 09, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Honeydewistania » Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:02 am

Dephire wrote:
Honeydewistania wrote:
When you're using words like Luftwaffe, Fuhrer and Wehrmacht, you're making a clear reference to Nazi Germany. It's ridiculous to pretend otherwise.


It was my understanding within the rules that context was key. However, you are entitled to your opinion. Obviously looking at sources is too much to ask.

Precisely. On their own, these words would just be German words meaning relatively innocent stuff such as 'air weapon'. But considering the context of the thread and the fact that this is a political simulator where nations are known to roleplay as Nazis, it is not difficult to draw such a conclusion.
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Crazy girl
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Mother Knows Best State

Postby Crazy girl » Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:56 am

We had a discussion, threw around some chairs, butted some heads and ate some danishes, and came to the conclusion that demand will be allowed under the understanding that it is a strongly worded request.

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Westinor
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Founded: Feb 15, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Westinor » Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:58 am

Crazy girl wrote:We had a discussion, threw around some chairs, butted some heads and ate some danishes, and came to the conclusion that demand will be allowed under the understanding that it is a strongly worded request.

Will the chairs be recompensated for their injuries?
Stay safe, be kind, and have a great day! :)

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